MMO NPCs with deep AI

Wordsworth

I remember, two devs explaining reasons for not improving AI in their games.

I remember a LOTRO dev(in Turbine days) explaining that the resource drain on servers made it unfeasible.

I also remember a WoW dev saying that adding AI to boss fights made it unenjoyable because people expected a consistent result in fighting a mob.

I always thought it would be cool. 

TheDalaiBomba

Scorchien said:
 If you play against other players , you will  get the best AI you can find ...Ironically .. But most people will avoid that kind of interaction , because they dont want there pixels to feel pain

Not true- they just largely find MMORPG PvP substantially inferior to other kinds of competitive multiplayer games.

Gamers love competing with one another.  There are dozens and dozens of competitive multiplayer games with great populations to attest to this.  Relatively speaking, they largely dislike *MMORPG* PvP, and that should be a red flag to developers indicating the current fare is poor in today's landscape.  A lot of innovation will be needed wrt MMORPG PvP to keep it relevant in any significant way in the industry moving forward.

TheDalaiBomba

Torval said:

TheDalaiBomba said:

Scorchien said:
 If you play against other players , you will  get the best AI you can find ...Ironically .. But most people will avoid that kind of interaction , because they dont want there pixels to feel pain

Not true- they just largely find MMORPG PvP substantially inferior to other kinds of competitive multiplayer games.

Gamers love competing with one another.  There are dozens and dozens of competitive multiplayer games with great populations to attest to this.  Relatively speaking, they largely dislike *MMORPG* PvP, and that should be a red flag to developers indicating the current fare is poor in today's landscape.  A lot of innovation will be needed wrt MMORPG PvP to keep it relevant in any significant way in the industry moving forward.

I'd agree that many (maybe most?) PvE players don't want a hardcore challenge. I also think PvP players aren't as clever as they'd like to advertise themselves as.

Progression based PvP (MMO) is generally horrible for dynamics. MMO PvP typically follows a very narrow rigid meta. There are a set number of viable classes and builds for those classes. Players generally don't deviate from them. How classes are played gets very predictable. People aren't as creative or dynamic in MMOs as they'd like to think.

This is yet another area where, ironically, DAoC included a novel system that has been largely ignored in other MMORPGs with PvP: templating.

Each class could readily hit the soft caps on stats/resists.  From there, it was about class, spec, and RR spec.  Obviously this doesn't level the playing field with regards to class and spec balance, but it equalizes the playing field for items of power and prevents the situation where a class "works" in PvP, but only when the player grinds out one uber-powerful item that makes their class/spec "work".  That should theoretically make balancing classes and specs easier, too, since no class or spec can spike their power via items.

Of course, at that point, the sword fighting in the aforementioned Chiv/Morhau is much deeper and more involved than any melee system included in any MMORPG to date AFAIK, so it still wouldn't give MMORPG PvP a real edge.

Phaserlight

Not an MMO, but have you tried Dwarf Fortress adventure mode?

You can like.... spark wars hundreds of years later in a persistently evolving world by offending some noble in conversation

Scorchien

Phaserlight said:

Not an MMO, but have you tried Dwarf Fortress adventure mode?

You can like.... spark wars hundreds of years later in a persistently evolving world by offending some noble in conversation

Dwarf Fortress is such a great game. Can't wait for the updated Steam version..

Good to see you Phaser , haven't seen you post in quite awhile