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Will Play to Earn Become the New Free to Play? | MMORPG.com

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    ScotTheDalaiBombaTheocritus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    BUT THEY ARE BUILDING ONE lmao 

    yeah man idk about this one. That being said they have the money to get it done and they have a track record of delivering.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they surprise and have something out thats pretty decent in a couple years. rumors are they have been building.

    I also wouldnt be surprised if 10 years later there is nothing, because mmorpgs are hard.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    BUT THEY ARE BUILDING ONE lmao 

    yeah man idk about this one. That being said they have the money to get it done and they have a track record of delivering.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they surprise and have something out thats pretty decent in a couple years. rumors are they have been building.

    I also wouldnt be surprised if 10 years later there is nothing, because mmorpgs are hard.

    Um... How is this different than say Star Citizen... which has sold digital goods for a game that doesn't exist for a decade now. Sure, they have some sort of game like product now... but they started out from day 1 with selling the contents of a product that they hadnt made... and that many may argue that they may never actually make.
    [Deleted User]TheDalaiBombabcbullykitarad
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    BUT THEY ARE BUILDING ONE lmao 

    yeah man idk about this one. That being said they have the money to get it done and they have a track record of delivering.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they surprise and have something out thats pretty decent in a couple years. rumors are they have been building.

    I also wouldnt be surprised if 10 years later there is nothing, because mmorpgs are hard.

    Um... How is this different than say Star Citizen... which has sold digital goods for a game that doesn't exist for a decade now. Sure, they have some sort of game like product now... but they started out from day 1 with selling the contents of a product that they hadnt made... and that many may argue that they may never actually make.
    Another one of those cases- like the digital ownership case- where NFTs are not required to solve the problem they're supposed to solve.

    Star Citizen is proof you can rake in millions on hype without having to use NFTs, too!

    This is all hilariously depressing.
    Kylerankitarad
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    edited May 2022
    Play to Earn (P2E) /Play and Earn (P&E) is a marketing approach to pay for DAU/MAU. If done correctly, it can be extremely cost effective. This increase in DAU/MAU can be used for marketing, for increased player engagement, or just to boost stats for financial purposes.

    In order for P2E to be sustainable (and not just a single use with a short half life) there must be an economic loop to sustain the activity, and to maintain the value of the rewards. This economic loop easily fits into well established retention and economy loops. Let me give some examples:

    Game A has daily login/quest/activity rewards that give 100 token. These tokens are locked to an account, and can be used for common consumable items (exp boosts, time reductions, etc). The game uses these as a way to get players to log in daily, and provides consumables that are used during normal play. They may also sell more of these consumables directly.

    Goldseller Model
    In the goldseller model, the tokens can be traded between players. This allows third parties to create many accounts, and use those accounts to farm the tokens. They then sell these tokens to other players via RMT transactions. This does increase the DAU/MAU, but it creates a host of other problems.

    P2E Model
    In this model, the tokens can only be traded via a regulated RMT exchange/marketplace. This drives the same action as with goldsellers. There are more accounts created and higher DAU/MAU as these accounts farm the token. These are then sold via the exchange/marketplace. The publisher may get a cut from these transactions. This reduces account and finance related problems for the players, generates clear data for the publisher, and may even generate some revenue.

    NFT/Cypto P2E Model
    This is actually two changes, but they work together, and are often paired. The first change is that the tokens are not directly sold on the marketplace/exchange. They are instead minted as a crypto utility token that can be bought/sold/traded via established blockchains. The second major change is that NFTs can also be part of the mix. They could be required to enable/increase the earning of tokens. They could be generated by the burning of these tokens. They could be part of the reward structure for the tokens themselves. There are many ways that NFT's could be added to the mix. Adding these layers to the P2E model has three benefits:
    1. It opens the buy/sell market for these tokens to a much larger, financially accessible, non gaming market. It encourages outside parties to speculate with the tokens, NFT's , and the game itself.
    2. It lends a certain modern tech appeal to the approach. This is no longer just goldselling legitimized. It is no longer greedy publishers pushing RMT in their game. It is tech innovation that is bringing Web3 to gaming and the masses.
    3. It creates several layers of increased complexity to the numbers. Just like publishers sell virtual currency in one value, then allow its spending in another (so you always have too much or not enough) or make players exchange one currency for another to hide the real cost, the crypto layers do the same. However, as this is being done by a global market, and not the publisher, it seems more legitimate to the player.

     The examples that I gave are very basic. They just show how a P2E approach has converted a simple daily task into something that can bring in a new paid playerbase to increase the DAU/MAU numbers. There are many additional layers that are part of this as well. For example: 
    Is the task a simple login, or do you need to play x amount of pvp matches (generating more content for the unpaid player); 
    Do you change the pricing of the rewards based on the (now established) RMT value of the tokens? (creating an inflationary hedge)

    The reality is that P2E is not totally new. It is just a new way for publishers to leverage existing systems to generate DAU/MAU at a low cost, with manageable results.
    ScotTheDalaiBombaKylerankitarad
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    BUT THEY ARE BUILDING ONE lmao 

    yeah man idk about this one. That being said they have the money to get it done and they have a track record of delivering.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they surprise and have something out thats pretty decent in a couple years. rumors are they have been building.

    I also wouldnt be surprised if 10 years later there is nothing, because mmorpgs are hard.

    Um... How is this different than say Star Citizen... which has sold digital goods for a game that doesn't exist for a decade now. Sure, they have some sort of game like product now... but they started out from day 1 with selling the contents of a product that they hadnt made... and that many may argue that they may never actually make.
    I agree. That's why idk. I do have more confidence in Yuga Labs than RSI though.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Scot said:
    bcbully said:
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    For every positive in Crypto gaming there's a half a dozen sh!t shows.

    Millions lost... again, yet the suckers keep jumping into the pool.

    https://kotaku.com/nft-bored-ape-otherside-metaverse-scam-video-game-ether-1848892937




    No one "lost" anything. Funny how things come off fromt the outside looking in. Each land Deed is worth a minimum of 10k, and one just sold today for 970k. 

    The ETH gas the was "lost" by some who attempted to mint was replaced in full by Yuga Labs.

    Literally no one lost. Those who did mint won big time.
    Well, technically those who attempted to mint on the fake site probably did lose. 

    Those who failed to mint on the actual site supposedly got refunded their gas fees. Seriously though,  who is minting NFT's on ethereum anymore.  Why not go straight to polygon if you want to be on ethereum? 
    The money is on ETH main. Another thing is Polygon ZK rollup is not in production. Assests theoretically can be trapped on polygon centralization. Same with Solana. ETH is decentralized as can be. 

    Oh and Ethereum OGs are incredibly uneducated when it comes to things like how to set up a new chain in meta mask lol. Like really the majority of them dont know how and wont "waste" the time figuring it out.
    I am sure there is a game somewhere in there, but that's not worth talking about. :)
    The game is being where the money is at so your mint sells out, marketing.

    That's not a video game.
    Neither was the latest Bored Ape offering, they brought in like $800M without any real game being defined, not even how the land deeds for sale will actually be used in the game.

    Doesn't matter, because the game doesn't really matter.
    BUT THEY ARE BUILDING ONE lmao 

    yeah man idk about this one. That being said they have the money to get it done and they have a track record of delivering.

    I wouldnt be shocked if they surprise and have something out thats pretty decent in a couple years. rumors are they have been building.

    I also wouldnt be surprised if 10 years later there is nothing, because mmorpgs are hard.

    Um... How is this different than say Star Citizen... which has sold digital goods for a game that doesn't exist for a decade now. Sure, they have some sort of game like product now... but they started out from day 1 with selling the contents of a product that they hadnt made... and that many may argue that they may never actually make.
    I agree. That's why idk. I do have more confidence in Yuga Labs than RSI though.
    Sad to think of it that way, but you are probably correct.
    bcbullyUngoodkitarad

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SpringaldSpringald Newbie CommonPosts: 12
    Finally, a fair Mir4 Article. I think P2E & MMORPGs are a match made in heaven. After all, the Ultimate MMORPG End Game rewards are Community, Completion, Dominance & Money.

    My Dream MMORPG:

    1. Traditional High Fantasy - knights, mages, slimes, goblins, etc

    2. Addictive & Competitive Core Gameplay - So players "spend" back on the game; or play even when the P2E is minimal.

    3. Primarily Mobile (for Playerbase). Ideally Multi-platform.

    4. Adjustable Graphics Quality (for Playerbase)

    5. F2P

    6. P2W - Encourage whale spending

    7. P2E (legal RMT)

    8. Bot- Offset(Idle-MMORPGs; Auto Farm)/Resilient/Proof

    9. Has Uniques and Limited Event NFTs (Ex: 1:1 Items, 13:13 Zodiac Weapons, etc)

    10. Minimal Transactions on a Reliable, Low Gas Fee Blockchain (Ragnarok Labyrinth NFT used ETH smh)

    11. Utility Coin is easily tradeable with Binance & other major DEXs.
    maskedweasel
  • SpringaldSpringald Newbie CommonPosts: 12

    Torval said:



    Ok. Let me start with a disclaimer. I am a gaming professional. I have published many games, and am still involved in the industry in different ways. As such, I have a different viewpoint than some others on this forum.

    The premise that P2E/P&E could replace F2P is silly. They don't do the same things, or even compete with each other. Lets start with what each is, and what it brings to the table (for the developer/publisher).

    F2P is a marketing tool designed to reduce customer acquisition cost. It leverages the game itself for the marketing and conversion. It is diametrically opposed to P2P (which it competes against) which uses marketing spend to bring in customers, and charges them to access the game. F2P has allowed publishers to bring in a large playerbase very cheaply, and then to minimize the conversion cost per customer. This is why it is the dominant form of gaming today... it significantly reduced upfront costs, and allowed for sliding conversion costs.

    P2E/P&E is a marketing tool designed to bring in DAU/MAU by paying them with virtual assets that have almost no cost, and limited long term value. It allows a publisher to create demand as needed to fill the game. This is basically the same as buying social media followers/likes. It creates an illusion of popularity. This can be useful in several ways. It can be used to raise funding for your game/company. It can be used to create hype/energy for your game/company. It can be used to provide content for your paying customers. This can be very useful tool for a publisher. It can be indirectly related to marketing when used for hype/promotional purposes, but it is not in any way a replacement for an actual marketing plan.

    It will take a little while, but eventually P&E will be a common component in most games, as it can be a very valuable tool for a publisher. However, just like with anything new in the gaming industry, it will take years (and many terrible mistakes) before publishers understand how to use this effectively.



    Is (or can) P2E/P&E exist as the primary revenue point for a game? Is it even a revenue point or does that depend on implementation?


    It does seem to have a marketing aspect, "Play to earn" "Earn money playing games", but I agree it isn't the same as F2P which is very clear about barriers to entry whereas P2E doesn't address that at all.

    How does P2E/P&E fit into the overall revenue model for a game and with other revenue generating systems (cash shops, loot crates, subscriptions, etc).



    Yes P2E can get revenue via transaction tax. The likely evolution will be F2P-P2E-P2W. It will always be P2W. It should be.
  • SourajitSourajit Member UncommonPosts: 472
    edited May 2022
    My Review Of The Cheat System In Mir4 :

    Mir4 like other similar games has tremendous manipulative systems.
    Firstly it has two states, in one state you are in channel that is slow and do not support much combination success and has loads of bots and in other state or in channel it has reverse.
    Generally servers are controlled by clans in better channel and state to make the players in other state and channel compete or invest their time or real cash in a hope to make some real cash. You as a player will not be able to move through states or channel but developer made bots are able to, giving them the edge which you do not have as a player.
    This above system might increase player base for a while but eventually, it will be known to all and real players will move away from the game. There is no community but just game support trying to lure you into playing for free and to make real money. Well you are just asked to farm as that somewhere supports their draco, gold, darksteel economy which is not a very transparent one.
    This game is at best a time pass, a complete no to be paid into, a complete waste of time comparing with other non manipulative gaming economy and system. As far as NFT character selling etc goes, all characters are developer made and they are hoping you will buy the characters to make some real cash through draco. However it is a complete eye wash and better not to fall into that trap.
    maskedweaselScot

    Cheers
    Sourajit Nandi

    " Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "

    Once An Addict Always An Addict .

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Sourajit said:
    My Review Of The Cheat System In Mir4 :

    Mir4 like other similar games has tremendous manipulative systems.
    Firstly it has two states, in one state you are in channel that is slow and do not support much combination success and has loads of bots and in other state or in channel it has reverse.
    Generally servers are controlled by clans in better channel and state to make the players in other state and channel compete or invest their time or real cash in a hope to make some real cash. You as a player will not be able to move through states or channel but developer made bots are able to, giving them the edge which you do not have as a player.
    This above system might increase player base for a while but eventually, it will be known to all and real players will move away from the game. There is no community but just game support trying to lure you into playing for free and to make real money. Well you are just asked to farm as that somewhere supports their draco, gold, darksteel economy which is not a very transparent one.
    This game is at best a time pass, a complete no to be paid into, a complete waste of time comparing with other non manipulative gaming economy and system. As far as NFT character selling etc goes, all characters are developer made and they are hoping you will buy the characters to make some real cash through draco. However it is a complete eye wash and better not to fall into that trap.
    So I haven't played Mir4 for very long, so a lot of this is lost on me. 

    But looking at the NFT shop, characters are selling pretty often, would you say that people are buying characters because that's the only way to compete to farm darksteel? 

    Or even if you buy characters you have no hope to earn darksteel because the clans and bots have a monopoly on it? 



  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    No thanks...You will be lured into a world where scams are the norm....You will get people that try to lure you in and then its "oh you only need to spend a little money and then the money will start rolling in.....The only people that make money this way are the ones that get you to spend it.....
    bcbullyScotUngood
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    "Generally servers are controlled by clans in better channel and state to make the players in other state and channel compete or invest their time or real cash in a hope to make some real cash."

    Wake up now and avoid P2E like the plague.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    There will be people who play them, but they wont be hugely popular. Entropia Universe has been around for a very long time and the gameplay in it is probably 100x better than any blockchain game.
    ScotTheDalaiBomba
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    edited May 2022
    There will be people who play them, but they wont be hugely popular. Entropia Universe has been around for a very long time and the gameplay in it is probably 100x better than any blockchain game.
    From what I have heard of it I agree, it is very well rounded and a solid game, we are not going to get that with nearly all of these offerings. I still would not play it, but if any posters are interested in P2E why not pick the one that is most worthy of the title MMO out there?
    TheDalaiBombabcbully
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    I am just wondering would this help or worsen the bots and RMT by outsiders. 

    This clear method with blockchain can also be tracked right so the revenue is clearer so wondering if it is also easily taxable.

    I am fine if they change these games because it looks like if I want to continue to play games I have to deal with this even if I don't want to. I am just worried whether all this is going to bury the development of a good game.

    How much of an impact will this money earning have on a normal player who isn't into the money making part. Can they play and just have fun for what amounts to perhaps a monthly investment of 13 Euros a month.

    If the answer to the above is yes and the game is a good game not one disguised as a money making scheme or pyramid shit where it is controlled by other players on top of the pyramid I might look at it. Big 'might' and only if the core game is enjoyable.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    kitarad said:
    ... because it looks like if I want to continue to play games I have to deal with this even if I don't want to. 

    That's what they want you to think but IMO, that is pure horseshit unless your gaming appetite is so voracious that you're compelled to play every game of every genre in every platform.

    I don't even look at 90% of games released and at most will consider playing 1% of them and probably only play 1% of the ones I considered. And that's enough to create a backlog of games that I'll never get through in my lifetime.

    I'm pretty damn confident I'll never have to deal with this sleazy shit in the games I choose to play.
    bcbully[Deleted User]Mendel
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Iselin said:
    kitarad said:
    ... because it looks like if I want to continue to play games I have to deal with this even if I don't want to. 

    That's what they want you to think but IMO, that is pure horseshit unless your gaming appetite is so voracious that you're compelled to play every game of every genre in every platform.

    I don't even look at 90% of games released and at most will consider playing 1% of them and probably only play 1% of the ones I considered. And that's enough to create a backlog of games that I'll never get through in my lifetime.

    I'm pretty damn confident I'll never have to deal with this sleazy shit in the games I choose to play.
    Save for those spending unhealthy amounts of time playing video games, this is true for pretty much all video gamers.  We don't want to admit it because we are accustomed to getting new shinies so often now, but there were already more quality games than a gamer could realistically exhaust before the explosion of early access and crowdfunding stuff.

    We got tunnel vision as consumers when those hit, salivating at the idea that we could fund *our* game, the one we always imagined we'd get to play one day.  Didn't realize that's not how it worked.  Short of bankrolling a studio, you're always playing someone else's vision.  And there's no guarantee that "else" is even going to be honest and competent.

    [Deleted User]Scot
  • SpringaldSpringald Newbie CommonPosts: 12

    Stizzled said:


    Nanfoodle said:



    Stizzled said:




    Nanfoodle said:





    Stizzled said:






    Nanfoodle said:



    Im not sure this is any different then a new take on a loyalty program. Xbox for instance is rewarding me points for playing their games and using their Bing searches. I have not paid for my Gamepass sub for I dont know how long. The gift cards I earn with playing paid for 1/2 of a new Xbox Series S for my bedroom. No one seems to be upset about that, is this much different?






    I don't know. Has Gamepass ever had $600 million stolen due to a design flaw in their (and every) DAO? Can one person vote to give themselves all of Microsoft's money?

    How about having one whale dump all of their assets, toppling the game's economy and effectively killing it. Has that happened to any game on Gamepass?

    In both situations it was the community who got screwed. They lost everything and the company just swapped chains, rebranded and reopened shop to start it all over again. Now we have Axie Infinty: Origin and CryptoMines Reborn, respectively.

    I don't mind getting stuff in my Steam inventory from games either, but It's not really the same thing.









    Games that use crypto, normally sell for 1-24 cents. Some get close to a buck. This is not Bitcoin. Most of this will be spent in buying in game things like ESO sub that gives you more access and extra perks, cosmetics. Not gonna buy a fridge with it. Also the more games that add this type of crypto, the less it will be worth. It just to keep people in their eco system and I am sure people will be buy and selling the games crypto for in game gold, much like WoWs token you can trade a sub cost for in game gold. Or earn with gold in game.




    Maybe we're looking at different games, or I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying, but I can go to OpenSea and look up NFTs for the most popular P2E games and they're selling for hundreds or thousands of dollars, not cents.

    We aren't talking about gun skins worth a few pennies on the Steam Marketplace, we're talking about games that have, at the moment, real money economies that are fairly expensive to buy into and maintain playing. When those economies crash it's the players left holding the bag. That is why this is different from your OP and why people are getting upset.






    You are right, people are going NFT nuts. I was talking crypto. By your comment, stealing 600 mill would be a cypto thing is it not? Money earned from NFT's are in the sellers account. So getting to 600 million, you would need a game so popular it would rival WoW in its hay day.


    Stealing $600 million from a P2E game isn't a "crypto thing," it's a P2E gaming thing.


    My entire point is that you can't simply compare getting some gift cards from Gamepass and purchasing/earning NFTs in P2E games. To go back the question in your OP: "is this much different?" Yes, it is very different. Players tying to play and earn in P2E games are taking on a financial risk to do so.





    False. There are many F2P P2E Games.
  • SpringaldSpringald Newbie CommonPosts: 12
    kitarad said:
    I am just wondering would this help or worsen the bots and RMT by outsiders. 

    ...How much of an impact will this money earning have on a normal player who isn't into the money making part. Can they play and just have fun for what amounts to perhaps a monthly investment of 13 Euros a month.
    Legal RMT is the main reason people play these games. The P2E players WANT whales to spend. Therefore, we understand that it may have to be P2E to some extent.

    Yes, there are more bots than before and that is the #1 enemy of P2E games. That's why, most them have autoplay to dampen the bot effect.

    Ideally, in future P2E games, earning the tokens come from skilled play. That's why I'm eagerly waiting for a P2E MOBA or FPS.

    Mir4 is PK-centric, and since there are real-world stakes, it's quite a competitive and political game.

    Players who just wanna play the game aren't really affected any more by the bots just like everyone else. Actually, they benefit from having cheaper options than actually paying with cash.
  • LouisemeadowsLouisemeadows Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    Well the trend seems to be that way... most of the promising games posted on https://playtoearn.net are free to play, NFT games of different categories all with their own unique experiences and immersive gameplay... popular gaming developers are even producing their own projects.
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