I do agree that using the two together is not what the genre has come to be known for. The rpg has been removed from the mmo part like you say.
I commented above that the technology does not exist for the type of game I would like to see and I agree with you that A.I. is really where the change needs to happen.
The talk of a 'living world' has always amused me when players say that because it is a fallacy. A living world requires more than just a Gothic style NPC going about their day. It requires NPC who live in the world created not just exist in it. Until that technology is able to be developed and implemented we will continue to have static prop sets we call 'living worlds'
Great post and welcome!
Honestly, bypassing the living world.... I'd love to see an MMORPG effort with a world built like Elden Ring.
No need for a bunch of scripted dialogue, curscenes, world phasing, etc.. Just some simple scripted encounters, for the most part, wrapped up in juicy lore tidbits that really did have deep, interconnected, and sometimes hidden meanings.
It is such a smart way to entice players to explore while actually cutting down on the total amount of dev time needed to write, animate, etc..
Most of the Souls-Like games don't have overly elaborate or lengthy scripted encounters in the world. Most are "doing this activates a door/ambush/hidden boss encounter," but you actually have to do some intelligent exploring to find them.
How about an MMORPG set up like this, where the devs could go back and more easily tweak world encounters with just a little bit of creative lore work and some basic NPC encounter changes within the environment. For example, an abandoned fort that previously housed brigands and a world mini-boss last quarter, now houses ambushing goblins that moved in after players "cleared" out the brigades from earlier.
Add small bits of lore referencing say, an underground goblin dungeon elsewhere in the world, to the new encounter via loot items or environmental hints. Avoid too much dialogue, too much scripted animation, focus on just how you can jam pack encounters with cool tidbits to entice the player onward like FromSoftware does. Notes, wall paintings, relics that must be taken to NPCs to "translate" or give contextual hints to the player regarding the relic they've found and what they should do with it.
If they could streamline and maintain a good cadence of updated world encounters, man that would be a fresh MMORPG.
Toss me a living world, with an emphasis on role playing and I'll be a happy camper. It's highly unlikely that the technology for a perfect version of my game will evolve in my lifetime -- incentives for develop a character and dynamic plot generation with AI generated dialog, i.e., not scripted.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I have no idea what my perfect MMORPG would look like. I expect I'd need to wait for proper virtual reality before I could experience a lot of the stuff I have in mind.
Instead, I will list my minimum requirements:
Must be massively multiplayer - i.e. can support a minimum of 250 players within the same virtual environment, but preferably 500+
Must have deep combat mechanics
Must include objective-based open world PvP - this doesn't mean free for all, by open I mean "open to all", so no player-caps or instancing. I want to be fighting over keeps / territory / bases with lots and lots of other players
Must be built around horizontal progression - vertical progression causes so much damage to the long term health of an mmo, devs really need to ditch this single player mechanic and start developing progression mechanics for a massively multiplayer environment.
Must be based on an IP that I really enjoy
Whilst I have a very strong preference for the subscription model, I'd be willing to try other business models if the game actually met my minimum requirements.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
All I know is whatever your perfect MMO is, someone else is going to bitch about it, and spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums telling you what's wrong with it and how it could be better.
All I know is whatever your perfect MMO is, someone else is going to bitch about it, and spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums telling you what's wrong with it and how it could be better.
Whilst this is definitely true, if someone ever did build my perfect MMORPG, I'll be spending my free time playing that game, not visiting these forums. So, I won't care about other people's criticisms!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
For example, I was against mounts in GW2, because in every other game, mounts were nothing but a Run Speed Boost, that often cost money from the shop, and just filled the screen with visual clutter.
I liked how GW2 put in mounts, and bypassed the whole problem with mounts in other games. I also like how they made every mount free, and you only needed to buy skins, if you wanted to look different (and yet people called that P2W... still can't get over that people called mount skins, P2W)
Equally so, DDO, when they put in mounts, just ran face first into all the things wrong with putting mounts into games.
I'm just using this as an example to say, that it is not "mounts" that are the point of contention, it is how they are put into the game that is really the important part.
It would be really helpful for understanding your posting if you would explain what exactly GW2 did right.
Guild Wars 2 mounts aren't simple cosmetics that increase your speed and maybe fly like in other MMOs. Each GW2 mount is a unique part of your movement toolkit with its own speed, handling, combat function, and traversal utility. It is the best mount system of any game (not just any MMO - any game) full stop.
The Raptor is your bread and butter quick, fast-turning mount with a long distance leap, which also lets you start fights by pulling enemies together.
The Springer is a vertical mount with a massive upwards leap. It also lets you start fights by doing a cannonball to knock foes down.
The Skimmer is a mount that lets you hover over terrain and underwater, smoothly transitioning between surface and depth. It also lets you start fights by healing and reviving allies.
The Jackal is a fairly quick mount with 3 short teleports, and it can bypass distances with sand portals placed on certain maps. It lets you start fights with a sand barrier.
The Roller Beetle is a lightning fast but hard to handle mount that functions like a race car. It can also break through certain rock barriers. It can dash through foes to knock down a line of enemies.
The griffon is a versatile flying mount that lets you glide long distances and dive bomb foes.
The wyvern is a versatile flying mount that handles like a helicopter. It can hover in place forever, scale heights (though more gradually than the Springer), an dash short distances. It can start fights by creating a fire field.
The Siege Turtle is a co-op combat mount with short distance jump jets and a cannon for player 2.
This is the keynote here, that each mount has a specific and very unique platforming feature about it, that separates it from all other mounts.
On top of that, in GW2 you cannot do any interactions while mounted, this means, if you try to talk to a shop keeper, or banker, or anyone, you dismount, also If you make an attack, you do a mounted attack and dismount, so they don't generate clutter in banking/shopping/crafting areas, or even during combat.
On top of this, each mount has their own progress spec, which you can train to improve their performance, and thus making the mounts an interwoven and integrated aspect of the game itself, as opposed to just some run speed modifier.
In some cases, like the Warclaw, it does not even increase movement speed, but it allows you to attack doors with a chain pull attack, or finish off downed players with a clawed attack.
Overall, I have to agree with @Aeander that GW2 has the best mounts of any game ever, and changed my feelings on the idea of mounts in games.
So like anything, it really depends on how each feature is done, some games can put in features and they are just awesome, other developers put in the same feature, and they are sucking hard.
So, it really depends on how something is implemented, as opposed to check box of features.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
For example, I was against mounts in GW2, because in every other game, mounts were nothing but a Run Speed Boost, that often cost money from the shop, and just filled the screen with visual clutter.
I liked how GW2 put in mounts, and bypassed the whole problem with mounts in other games. I also like how they made every mount free, and you only needed to buy skins, if you wanted to look different (and yet people called that P2W... still can't get over that people called mount skins, P2W)
Equally so, DDO, when they put in mounts, just ran face first into all the things wrong with putting mounts into games.
I'm just using this as an example to say, that it is not "mounts" that are the point of contention, it is how they are put into the game that is really the important part.
It would be really helpful for understanding your posting if you would explain what exactly GW2 did right.
Guild Wars 2 mounts aren't simple cosmetics that increase your speed and maybe fly like in other MMOs. Each GW2 mount is a unique part of your movement toolkit with its own speed, handling, combat function, and traversal utility. It is the best mount system of any game (not just any MMO - any game) full stop.
The Raptor is your bread and butter quick, fast-turning mount with a long distance leap, which also lets you start fights by pulling enemies together.
The Springer is a vertical mount with a massive upwards leap. It also lets you start fights by doing a cannonball to knock foes down.
The Skimmer is a mount that lets you hover over terrain and underwater, smoothly transitioning between surface and depth. It also lets you start fights by healing and reviving allies.
The Jackal is a fairly quick mount with 3 short teleports, and it can bypass distances with sand portals placed on certain maps. It lets you start fights with a sand barrier.
The Roller Beetle is a lightning fast but hard to handle mount that functions like a race car. It can also break through certain rock barriers. It can dash through foes to knock down a line of enemies.
The griffon is a versatile flying mount that lets you glide long distances and dive bomb foes.
The wyvern is a versatile flying mount that handles like a helicopter. It can hover in place forever, scale heights (though more gradually than the Springer), an dash short distances. It can start fights by creating a fire field.
The Siege Turtle is a co-op combat mount with short distance jump jets and a cannon for player 2.
This is the keynote here, that each mount has a specific and very unique platforming feature about it, that separates it from all other mounts.
On top of that, in GW2 you cannot do any interactions while mounted, this means, if you try to talk to a shop keeper, or banker, or anyone, you dismount, also If you make an attack, you do a mounted attack and dismount, so they don't generate clutter in banking/shopping/crafting areas, or even during combat.
On top of this, each mount has their own progress spec, which you can train to improve their performance, and thus making the mounts an interwoven and integrated aspect of the game itself, as opposed to just some run speed modifier.
In some cases, like the Warclaw, it does not even increase movement speed, but it allows you to attack doors with a chain pull attack, or finish off downed players with a clawed attack.
Overall, I have to agree with @Aeander that GW2 has the best mounts of any game ever, and changed my feelings on the idea of mounts in games.
So like anything, it really depends on how each feature is done, some games can put in features and they are just awesome, other developers put in the same feature, and they are sucking hard.
So, it really depends on how something is implemented, as opposed to check box of features.
Warclaw does increase movement speed (even compared to Swiftness). It is the slowest of all mounts, but I do have to say that it makes a noticeable difference in actually keeping up with allies and getting to capture points before they're taken.
It would be very difficult to make the "perect" MMO because our tastes all vary so much......IF we listed 10 major points, no 2 of us would agree on all 10 most likely..>We'd be lucky if we agree on half.
1. Pvp or no PVP and if PVP what kind? (Battle royale, team based, RVR, arena/BG, etc)
2. Tab target combat or action combat
3. P2p, B2p, or F2p
4. Sandbox or Themepark
5. Mob scaling or no?
6. Quest/story or Grind/Explore?
7. How severe of a death penalty?
8. Best gear is: Crafted or raid drop?
9. Class based or no classes?
10. Levels or horizontal progression?
All of these depend on the rest of the game, and how they are done.
For example, I was against mounts in GW2, because in every other game, mounts were nothing but a Run Speed Boost, that often cost money from the shop, and just filled the screen with visual clutter.
I liked how GW2 put in mounts, and bypassed the whole problem with mounts in other games. I also like how they made every mount free, and you only needed to buy skins, if you wanted to look different (and yet people called that P2W... still can't get over that people called mount skins, P2W)
Equally so, DDO, when they put in mounts, just ran face first into all the things wrong with putting mounts into games.
I'm just using this as an example to say, that it is not "mounts" that are the point of contention, it is how they are put into the game that is really the important part.
GW2 mount system was taken from EQ2 , its EQ2 mount system with minor tweaks ..Its nearly identical TBH..
For example, I was against mounts in GW2, because in every other game, mounts were nothing but a Run Speed Boost, that often cost money from the shop, and just filled the screen with visual clutter.
I liked how GW2 put in mounts, and bypassed the whole problem with mounts in other games. I also like how they made every mount free, and you only needed to buy skins, if you wanted to look different (and yet people called that P2W... still can't get over that people called mount skins, P2W)
Equally so, DDO, when they put in mounts, just ran face first into all the things wrong with putting mounts into games.
I'm just using this as an example to say, that it is not "mounts" that are the point of contention, it is how they are put into the game that is really the important part.
It would be really helpful for understanding your posting if you would explain what exactly GW2 did right.
Guild Wars 2 mounts aren't simple cosmetics that increase your speed and maybe fly like in other MMOs. Each GW2 mount is a unique part of your movement toolkit with its own speed, handling, combat function, and traversal utility. It is the best mount system of any game (not just any MMO - any game) full stop.
The Raptor is your bread and butter quick, fast-turning mount with a long distance leap, which also lets you start fights by pulling enemies together.
The Springer is a vertical mount with a massive upwards leap. It also lets you start fights by doing a cannonball to knock foes down.
The Skimmer is a mount that lets you hover over terrain and underwater, smoothly transitioning between surface and depth. It also lets you start fights by healing and reviving allies.
The Jackal is a fairly quick mount with 3 short teleports, and it can bypass distances with sand portals placed on certain maps. It lets you start fights with a sand barrier.
The Roller Beetle is a lightning fast but hard to handle mount that functions like a race car. It can also break through certain rock barriers. It can dash through foes to knock down a line of enemies.
The griffon is a versatile flying mount that lets you glide long distances and dive bomb foes.
The wyvern is a versatile flying mount that handles like a helicopter. It can hover in place forever, scale heights (though more gradually than the Springer), an dash short distances. It can start fights by creating a fire field.
The Siege Turtle is a co-op combat mount with short distance jump jets and a cannon for player 2.
This is the keynote here, that each mount has a specific and very unique platforming feature about it, that separates it from all other mounts.
On top of that, in GW2 you cannot do any interactions while mounted, this means, if you try to talk to a shop keeper, or banker, or anyone, you dismount, also If you make an attack, you do a mounted attack and dismount, so they don't generate clutter in banking/shopping/crafting areas, or even during combat.
On top of this, each mount has their own progress spec, which you can train to improve their performance, and thus making the mounts an interwoven and integrated aspect of the game itself, as opposed to just some run speed modifier.
In some cases, like the Warclaw, it does not even increase movement speed, but it allows you to attack doors with a chain pull attack, or finish off downed players with a clawed attack. Overall, I have to agree with @Aeander that GW2 has the best mounts of any game ever, and changed my feelings on the idea of mounts in games.
So like anything, it really depends on how each feature is done, some games can put in features and they are just awesome, other developers put in the same feature, and they are sucking hard.
So, it really depends on how something is implemented, as opposed to check box of features.
Warclaw does increase movement speed (even compared to Swiftness). It is the slowest of all mounts, but I do have to say that it makes a noticeable difference in actually keeping up with allies and getting to capture points before they're taken.
I thought they nerfed that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I do agree that using the two together is not what the genre has come to be known for. The rpg has been removed from the mmo part like you say.
I commented above that the technology does not exist for the type of game I would like to see and I agree with you that A.I. is really where the change needs to happen.
The talk of a 'living world' has always amused me when players say that because it is a fallacy. A living world requires more than just a Gothic style NPC going about their day. It requires NPC who live in the world created not just exist in it. Until that technology is able to be developed and implemented we will continue to have static prop sets we call 'living worlds'
Great post and welcome!
Yes I agree on : we need living NPCs to feel in a breathing world.
However, let me allow to disagree to some extent.
I really do not think we need a technology revolution in the field of AI to achieve this goal.
I think that basic scripting could do the trick.
You can achieve really complex stuff with basic scripting. You could give motivation and action to NPCs. It has just never really be done to this extent in a MMORPGs.
If I push this idea even more, I would even reduce the number of players in favor of more "living NPCs".
Why?
Because:
- While a lot of players is great for huge scale PVP battles, I always disliked seeing hundreds of players attacking the same spongy-boss until it falls.
- A lot of players kills the individual epicness. The more players you have the less chances you have to be a hero!
If I would create a game
- I would renounce to the huge scale PvP battles appeal in favor of intrigues
- I would limit the number of players to something like a 50-100/server (or something similar we see in survival games)
- I would create a lot of heavily scripted NPCs that live/reproduce/die in the world, with their own motivation, missions, etc.
- I would create a lot of classes or an open system that would produce the same result. The idea would be that each player would provide something unique. For example I would be able to teleport a group to a remote location, and you would be the one able to survey a location from a distance.
- I would introduce in the world unique magic objects that players could possibly want and fight for. Major NPCs would do it too!
All I know is whatever your perfect MMO is, someone else is going to bitch about it, and spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums telling you what's wrong with it and how it could be better.
Yes, but if that were not the case would MMORPG.com have even started with forums?
Excellent post. It's rare to get such a thoughtful perspective and breakdown of where genre tropes fall apart. Welcome to the forums!
I had to use Bing translator because I don't know Chinese but I think I got a good idea of your message without too much loss.
I agree with your points and using RPG in MMOs today is essentially just marketing speak. Sadly, RPG in most games has come to mean increasing combat stats via XP and gear and has little to do with roles outside of the traditional D&D and DIKU models.
I do agree that using the two together is not what the genre has come to be known for. The rpg has been removed from the mmo part like you say.
I commented above that the technology does not exist for the type of game I would like to see and I agree with you that A.I. is really where the change needs to happen.
The talk of a 'living world' has always amused me when players say that because it is a fallacy. A living world requires more than just a Gothic style NPC going about their day. It requires NPC who live in the world created not just exist in it. Until that technology is able to be developed and implemented we will continue to have static prop sets we call 'living worlds'
Great post and welcome!
Agreed, we haven't seen "living world" from any MMO even though a lot of studios and fans like to throw that around.
Also, agreed that AI is a huge barricade and problem point. None of the enemies in an MMORPG use any kind of sentient reasoning. They just perform a little script until the player wears down their objects "health stat" which triggers the loot reward event. Some don't even do that much. They just stand there firing off "skills" until they're "dead".
So, AI is one area that desperately needs attention.
For me a couple more are world/environment engagement, player agency in relation to the world, and dynamic narrative.
World/Environment engagement refers to the player ability to interact with the environment and objects around them.
Player Agency refers to the ability for players to alter that environment, the objects, influence social and environmental dynamics, and shape their world and their character.
Dynamic narrative I'm borrowing from how Ken Levine referred to the NPC AI in "Shadow of Mordor" and how the narrative could change even if key figures and bosses were eliminated. That system, while crude, draws a stark contrast to the very narrow and linear on-rails narratives we typically experience. There are forces in a world and how things play out and agendas are executed are constantly shifting.
Those are a few of my main points on where MMOs (or any sort of game) needs to go in order to create a "living world".
Even a crude system is much more interesting than not having any of it at all. And Players won't notice just how crude it is since they will notice it's there, but not really know how much is there.
That's a great post and I think the MMORPG genre is long overdue to have started moving in that direction.
I do agree that using the two together is not what the genre has come to be known for. The rpg has been removed from the mmo part like you say.
I commented above that the technology does not exist for the type of game I would like to see and I agree with you that A.I. is really where the change needs to happen.
The talk of a 'living world' has always amused me when players say that because it is a fallacy. A living world requires more than just a Gothic style NPC going about their day. It requires NPC who live in the world created not just exist in it. Until that technology is able to be developed and implemented we will continue to have static prop sets we call 'living worlds'
Great post and welcome!
Yes I agree on : we need living NPCs to feel in a breathing world.
However, let me allow to disagree to some extent.
I really do not think we need a technology revolution in the field of AI to achieve this goal.
I think that basic scripting could do the trick.
You can achieve really complex stuff with basic scripting. You could give motivation and action to NPCs. It has just never really be done to this extent in a MMORPGs.
If I push this idea even more, I would even reduce the number of players in favor of more "living NPCs".
Why?
Because:
- While a lot of players is great for huge scale PVP battles, I always disliked seeing hundreds of players attacking the same spongy-boss until it falls.
- A lot of players kills the individual epicness. The more players you have the less chances you have to be a hero!
If I would create a game
- I would renounce to the huge scale PvP battles appeal in favor of intrigues
- I would limit the number of players to something like a 50-100/server (or something similar we see in survival games)
- I would create a lot of heavily scripted NPCs that live/reproduce/die in the world, with their own motivation, missions, etc.
- I would create a lot of classes or an open system that would produce the same result. The idea would be that each player would provide something unique. For example I would be able to teleport a group to a remote location, and you would be the one able to survey a location from a distance.
- I would introduce in the world unique magic objects that players could possibly want and fight for. Major NPCs would do it too!
Blabla... other ideas, other ideas... blabla....
"You can achieve really complex stuff with basic scripting. You could give motivation and action to NPCs. It has just never really be done to this extent in a MMORPGs."
Yes, you can. I completely agree. In all basic mode- - You can give them motivations, goals, agendas. - You can give them some memory of the world and or individuals, related to such. - You can give them a running morale score related to such. - You can give them "random, but weighted and modified" die rolls to determine actions. - You can weight those die rolls based on "memory."
That's pretty simple, it would be more complex in an actual design. It's not hard. It's just tedious. It also requires server space, depending on how deep it's implanted into the game world. It's not just your same old hack-and-slash, deadpan, FtP, Lowest Common Denominator game world.
It would be very difficult to make the "perect" MMO because our tastes all vary so much......IF we listed 10 major points, no 2 of us would agree on all 10 most likely..>We'd be lucky if we agree on half.
1. Pvp or no PVP and if PVP what kind? (Battle royale, team based, RVR, arena/BG, etc)
2. Tab target combat or action combat
3. P2p, B2p, or F2p
4. Sandbox or Themepark
5. Mob scaling or no?
6. Quest/story or Grind/Explore?
7. How severe of a death penalty?
8. Best gear is: Crafted or raid drop?
9. Class based or no classes?
10. Levels or horizontal progression?
All of these depend on the rest of the game, and how they are done.
For example, I was against mounts in GW2, because in every other game, mounts were nothing but a Run Speed Boost, that often cost money from the shop, and just filled the screen with visual clutter.
I liked how GW2 put in mounts, and bypassed the whole problem with mounts in other games. I also like how they made every mount free, and you only needed to buy skins, if you wanted to look different (and yet people called that P2W... still can't get over that people called mount skins, P2W)
Equally so, DDO, when they put in mounts, just ran face first into all the things wrong with putting mounts into games.
I'm just using this as an example to say, that it is not "mounts" that are the point of contention, it is how they are put into the game that is really the important part.
GW2 mount system was taken from EQ2 , its EQ2 mount system with minor tweaks ..Its nearly identical TBH..
We can finish this when you get back. Hope to see you soon.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Trove - Home (Cornerstone), Personal instance (Clubworld), Open World Destructibility and building, ability to swap characters on the fly.
GW2 - Style Open World Events, World Bosses, Map Exploration, Armor / Weapon Cosmetics, Mounts.
DDO - Character Building, Dungeons, Gear Design, Combat
Graphics are up in the air, I liked Crowfall Beta graphics, but, I'm not fixed on any one style, GW2 had some amazing areas, just as long as it is not a case where everything is shades of brown and gray, I liked the more vibrant colors in GW2.
PvP can go fuck itself, all things said and done, but if it is put in, it should be it's own game mode.
I know there are a lot of things and parts I am leaving out, and that is intended, as I am not really sure what I would like the best in those situations, like crafting.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I do agree that using the two together is not what the genre has come to be known for. The rpg has been removed from the mmo part like you say.
I commented above that the technology does not exist for the type of game I would like to see and I agree with you that A.I. is really where the change needs to happen.
The talk of a 'living world' has always amused me when players say that because it is a fallacy. A living world requires more than just a Gothic style NPC going about their day. It requires NPC who live in the world created not just exist in it. Until that technology is able to be developed and implemented we will continue to have static prop sets we call 'living worlds'
Great post and welcome!
Yes I agree on : we need living NPCs to feel in a breathing world.
However, let me allow to disagree to some extent.
I really do not think we need a technology revolution in the field of AI to achieve this goal.
I think that basic scripting could do the trick.
You can achieve really complex stuff with basic scripting. You could give motivation and action to NPCs. It has just never really be done to this extent in a MMORPGs.
If I push this idea even more, I would even reduce the number of players in favor of more "living NPCs".
Why?
Because:
- While a lot of players is great for huge scale PVP battles, I always disliked seeing hundreds of players attacking the same spongy-boss until it falls.
- A lot of players kills the individual epicness. The more players you have the less chances you have to be a hero!
If I would create a game
- I would renounce to the huge scale PvP battles appeal in favor of intrigues
- I would limit the number of players to something like a 50-100/server (or something similar we see in survival games)
- I would create a lot of heavily scripted NPCs that live/reproduce/die in the world, with their own motivation, missions, etc.
- I would create a lot of classes or an open system that would produce the same result. The idea would be that each player would provide something unique. For example I would be able to teleport a group to a remote location, and you would be the one able to survey a location from a distance.
- I would introduce in the world unique magic objects that players could possibly want and fight for. Major NPCs would do it too!
Blabla... other ideas, other ideas... blabla....
"You can achieve really complex stuff with basic scripting. You could give motivation and action to NPCs. It has just never really be done to this extent in a MMORPGs."
Yes, you can. I completely agree. In all basic mode- - You can give them motivations, goals, agendas. - You can give them some memory of the world and or individuals, related to such. - You can give them a running morale score related to such. - You can give them "random, but weighted and modified" die rolls to determine actions. - You can weight those die rolls based on "memory."
That's pretty simple, it would be more complex in an actual design. It's not hard. It's just tedious. It also requires server space, depending on how deep it's implanted into the game world. It's not just your same old hack-and-slash, deadpan, FtP, Lowest Common Denominator game world.
It's just crazy to post stuff like this in a place like this. It's a waste of time. What's really needed is Alien Technology.
For me, It's simple. A modernized DAoC right after ToA was introduced (yes, I actually like ToA). It has what everyone is looking for but doesn't require anyone to participate in any aspect they don't want to.
To me, this is the perfect game... provided the population is high enough.
It would look like a broth made by too many cooks and probably taste as well.
That's what we would probably end up with if the MMORPG.com forum guys designed a MMORPG.
Even when studios make a MMO it seems clear that having one person with a creative vision helps.
Only if we had to work with each other.. and I think it would end in violence in the workplace however if that was the case.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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No need for a bunch of scripted dialogue, curscenes, world phasing, etc.. Just some simple scripted encounters, for the most part, wrapped up in juicy lore tidbits that really did have deep, interconnected, and sometimes hidden meanings.
It is such a smart way to entice players to explore while actually cutting down on the total amount of dev time needed to write, animate, etc..
Most of the Souls-Like games don't have overly elaborate or lengthy scripted encounters in the world. Most are "doing this activates a door/ambush/hidden boss encounter," but you actually have to do some intelligent exploring to find them.
How about an MMORPG set up like this, where the devs could go back and more easily tweak world encounters with just a little bit of creative lore work and some basic NPC encounter changes within the environment. For example, an abandoned fort that previously housed brigands and a world mini-boss last quarter, now houses ambushing goblins that moved in after players "cleared" out the brigades from earlier.
Add small bits of lore referencing say, an underground goblin dungeon elsewhere in the world, to the new encounter via loot items or environmental hints. Avoid too much dialogue, too much scripted animation, focus on just how you can jam pack encounters with cool tidbits to entice the player onward like FromSoftware does. Notes, wall paintings, relics that must be taken to NPCs to "translate" or give contextual hints to the player regarding the relic they've found and what they should do with it.
If they could streamline and maintain a good cadence of updated world encounters, man that would be a fresh MMORPG.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Whilst this is definitely true, if someone ever did build my perfect MMORPG, I'll be spending my free time playing that game, not visiting these forums. So, I won't care about other people's criticisms!
On top of that, in GW2 you cannot do any interactions while mounted, this means, if you try to talk to a shop keeper, or banker, or anyone, you dismount, also If you make an attack, you do a mounted attack and dismount, so they don't generate clutter in banking/shopping/crafting areas, or even during combat.
On top of this, each mount has their own progress spec, which you can train to improve their performance, and thus making the mounts an interwoven and integrated aspect of the game itself, as opposed to just some run speed modifier.
In some cases, like the Warclaw, it does not even increase movement speed, but it allows you to attack doors with a chain pull attack, or finish off downed players with a clawed attack.
Overall, I have to agree with @Aeander that GW2 has the best mounts of any game ever, and changed my feelings on the idea of mounts in games.
So like anything, it really depends on how each feature is done, some games can put in features and they are just awesome, other developers put in the same feature, and they are sucking hard.
So, it really depends on how something is implemented, as opposed to check box of features.
GW2 mount system was taken from EQ2 , its EQ2 mount system with minor tweaks ..Its nearly identical TBH..
And Players won't notice just how crude it is since they will notice it's there, but not really know how much is there.
That's a great post and I think the MMORPG genre is long overdue to have started moving in that direction.
Once upon a time....
Yes, you can. I completely agree.
In all basic mode-
- You can give them motivations, goals, agendas.
- You can give them some memory of the world and or individuals, related to such.
- You can give them a running morale score related to such.
- You can give them "random, but weighted and modified" die rolls to determine actions.
- You can weight those die rolls based on "memory."
That's pretty simple, it would be more complex in an actual design.
It's not hard. It's just tedious. It also requires server space, depending on how deep it's implanted into the game world.
It's not just your same old hack-and-slash, deadpan, FtP, Lowest Common Denominator game world.
Once upon a time....
Trove - Home (Cornerstone), Personal instance (Clubworld), Open World Destructibility and building, ability to swap characters on the fly.
GW2 - Style Open World Events, World Bosses, Map Exploration, Armor / Weapon Cosmetics, Mounts.
DDO - Character Building, Dungeons, Gear Design, Combat
Graphics are up in the air, I liked Crowfall Beta graphics, but, I'm not fixed on any one style, GW2 had some amazing areas, just as long as it is not a case where everything is shades of brown and gray, I liked the more vibrant colors in GW2.
PvP can go fuck itself, all things said and done, but if it is put in, it should be it's own game mode.
I know there are a lot of things and parts I am leaving out, and that is intended, as I am not really sure what I would like the best in those situations, like crafting.
It's a waste of time.
What's really needed is Alien Technology.
Once upon a time....
To me, this is the perfect game... provided the population is high enough.
Even when studios make a MMO it seems clear that having one person with a creative vision helps.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light