It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
It's not silly if you have developed an irrational "Cult of Personality" towards specific developer, to the point where you will always blindly believe every statement released by developer without question and without requiring any proof by developer while simultaneously dismissing any factual examples presented by other people. And unfortunately there are some people like these left who still behave in such way towards CSE and Mark Jacobs. The kind of people who, if the Mark Jacobs would personally spit in their face, would just ask him to "please spit again and gently whisper me more about your revolutionary, unique game engine which <allegedly> allows 500 players on same battlefield and <allegedly> allows never-before-seen level of physical destruction"
It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
Why not both? Call out the developers for significantly underestimating the time and money required for their project, and call out the frustrated backers who resort to very cheap shots.
It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
Why not both? Call out the developers for significantly underestimating the time and money required for their project, and call out the frustrated backers who resort to very cheap shots.
No. The Developer set the timelines AND the expectations. When they fail to meet those expectations... by a factor of 4 and counting... it's 100% on the developer. Not one single backer ever caused even the slightest delay.
Now if you are saying that frustrated fans shouldn't tell developers to go die in a fire.. sure that I agree with, but as far as ownership of expectation setting and delivery... that is 100% the developer.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't think so. Game development is something you can't easily explain to lay people, let alone show them. People are strongly visual and often take a video or demo of a test environment at face value. And to be honest, I think that's exactly what some people are after.
I tend to agree with this, I think if they let the whiners out, far too many people who boasted about their being in-the=know, would show they have no clue about the concept of what a placeholder or gray block is.
While no joke, 9 years to make a game is, IMHO way too long, 5 years should have been the benchmark, to have something out the door regardless.
In any case, the whiners will cry if the game does not launch, they will cry if the game does launch, they will just cry and shit all over the game and the developers, and then wonder why no one seems to want to buy their founder packs, or even look into the game they backed.. of course, they will blame the devs for this as well, never thinking that their going around pissing and shitting all over the game, may have had an adverse effect on it, of course if the game does fail they will cry about that, and deny any fault on their part, and even go so far as to say they had high hopes for the game and wished it success.
It's pitiful to watch really. I don't think the dev teams were really ready for what players can be like when you give them an ounce of a sense of importance.
It sounds like you are blaming the players / supporters /
founders for criticizing decisions the developers make? So, if promises are
made, broken, and left festering by the developer the players that complain are
then whiners in your view? Are you basically arguing for an ivory tower
environment, having players keep their mouths shut so they can potentially sell
their founders packs to unsuspecting rubes? I really hope I am reading you
wrong here.
As far as Camelot Unchained is concerned, I don’t really
think its main issues are related to a *layman* understanding of placeholders,
art choice, sound effects, special ability hot bars etc in game development,
those are just low hanging fruit to dunk on these days due to other decisions. Their
issues stem purely from a particular management decision, an untreated,
festering decision that continues to spoil even the slightest positive news
about this project.
Going to setup local servers in Europe for testing purposes,
to increase the testing base and in a PVP game to check ping / latency etc. On
the cusp a very positive decision, however due to the refund fiasco it takes less
than a dozen posts before refunds overshadow everything yet again, on the other
site that covers this game one of the first posts about a European server for
testing is a statement in German saying they cannot get a refund.
You have a game several years late which even *layman* can
understand happens in game development, however dissent will naturally grow
year by year of non completion after a promised due date. Not a deal breaker,
good regular communication to the community can help combat this, however there
is a sweet spot for release, fruit can rot on the vine.
Now take this PVP game, years overdue, that was not going to
have PVE (at launch anyway), announce you have been working on a secret
PVE game using the PVP’s game engine, try to convince people that developing
this game didn’t slow down or take away any resources from your PVP game (knowing
that one of the devs left the company as they were uncomfortable with the second
game idea which would slow things down right there). Let them know that
when this second game takes off, the PVP game will not be left by the roadside (hello
Fortnite PVE save the world) but the investors will dedicate a percentage
of the profits Fully toward the PVP game, supporters will get the game free,
will get some bonuses for the PVP game etc.
Ok not going to lie this is bad, you can understand the
reasoning but its difficult to follow why this wasn’t announced when they
started the second game, not a year or so into development, its not like the
reasons changed (get more investment capital, test the engine / other items,
and have a profit generating game). The secrecy is what really seemed to
set everyone off, but never fear for those that wanted to jump out and wait while
City State finished up both games there were refunds available and folks would
hopefully be back when they were ready.
Finally take this PVP game, years overdue, announce a secret
PVE game but remember refunds are available for those that want to take a step
back. Now stop, on second thought do not stop so you can honesty say you are
processing refunds but SLOW those refunds down. Have people wait years without
an end in sight and they are bound to talk well about your products, your
services and your general state as a human being.
This should have been handled so much better. Mark Jacobs is
a proven, accomplished, successful businessman, not a babe in the woods, deer
in the headlights, how do I lead a company game developer. He had the
experience, the reputation, and the knowledge to know to refund this quickly,
cauterize the problem before it went gangrene and eventually it will die down
and he may get those people back. Instead, over 2 years later, after the early
access release of the second game (unfortunately last I checked less than a
dozen people had bothered reviewing it, and the few that gave it a positive review,
none had played even 30 hours) it all comes back to the refunds, the soured
feeling of delayed refunds, this legitimate complaint has dominated every
discussion related to this game.
It sounds like you are blaming the players / supporters /
founders for criticizing decisions the developers make? So, if promises are
made, broken, and left festering by the developer the players that complain are
then whiners in your view? Are you basically arguing for an ivory tower
environment, having players keep their mouths shut so they can potentially sell
their founders packs to unsuspecting rubes?
No, no and no.
My point is that MJ shouldn't drop the NDA just because some people post negatively selected screenshots. Because (1) if you give in to their demands once, they will keep coming and (2) visually the game is not yet exactly what the developer envisioned and many people will not understand that.
It sounds like you are blaming the players / supporters /
founders for criticizing decisions the developers make? So, if promises are
made, broken, and left festering by the developer the players that complain are
then whiners in your view? Are you basically arguing for an ivory tower
environment, having players keep their mouths shut so they can potentially sell
their founders packs to unsuspecting rubes?
No, no and no.
My point is that MJ shouldn't drop the NDA just because some people post negatively selected screenshots. Because (1) if you give in to their demands once, they will keep coming and (2) visually the game is not yet exactly what the developer envisioned and many people will not understand that.
Hey Nurso, sorry man that was more directed toward Ungood.
Yeah i dont think there is a completed gameloop yet to bother tossing out the NDA for whatever reasons. I think people just believe (maybe rightly so) that things cant continue on the way they have been, something needs to change to steer this project back from general disinterest.
Hopefully if they can buckle down and grind out some game, they can then open up the NDA and probably the game itself, some kind of open testing for all that want to do so.
It sounds like you are blaming the players / supporters /
founders for criticizing decisions the developers make? So, if promises are
made, broken, and left festering by the developer the players that complain are
then whiners in your view? Are you basically arguing for an ivory tower
environment, having players keep their mouths shut so they can potentially sell
their founders packs to unsuspecting rubes?
No, no and no.
My point is that MJ shouldn't drop the NDA just because some people post negatively selected screenshots. Because (1) if you give in to their demands once, they will keep coming and (2) visually the game is not yet exactly what the developer envisioned and many people will not understand that.
LOL! There shouldn't even have been an NDA in the first place when you use crowd-funding, if MJ had nothing to hide and keep secrets!
We can shit all we want on Chris Roberts with Star Citizen, but at least its all out in the open and fully transparent. Chris made plenty mistakes, overcommitted too many milestones (feature bloat) and missed many deadlines as well. Got plenty critique over the years for it. Yet it prospers, it has shown clear progress over the years and development continues.
Everyone and their mother with minimal pledge could download the client from first Alpha and could freely talk and post about it. No silly NDA to hide screw ups from the public. As it should be with a crowd-funded game! And since the last couple years there have been frequent free flying weekends for people to try out the current iteration of the game for free.
Yet, MJ's Camalot Unchained still has an NDA in place after 9 years, is plagued by many controversies, lies and deceit. After 9 years he still has nothing to show for it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
Why not both? Call out the developers for significantly underestimating the time and money required for their project, and call out the frustrated backers who resort to very cheap shots.
I tend to agree with this.
I mean, I don't blame anyone for a little miffed the timeline was off by several years, and that really shows some serious incompetence on the Studio's part.
But, at the same time, if they go around shitting all over the game, they need to own up to the bad press they are generating as well, after all the most effective means of advertising is word of mouth, so if you are spewing shit, you need to own up to your own bad press against the game, and how you hurt them.
Too bad too many gamers don't want to hold themselves accountable, while they are trying to point fingers at everyone else. Very shallow, fragile people all things said and done.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
While no joke, 9 years to make a game is, IMHO way too long, 5 years should have been the benchmark, to have something out the door regardless.
But what is that based on?
We tend to talk about AAA mmorpg's taking about 3.5 or so years. What is the breakdown that says an indy mmorpg takes 5 years as a "benchmark?"
Not to mention the issues that indy mmorpg's seem to have with stops and starts and other issues that involve lack of money.
I'm not saying camelot unchained isn't having issues launching but I strongly suspect that the developers just "took a chance" and hoped that they could do it.
And fully knew that there was a chance they couldn't. Or at least didn't care and just wanted to take a shot.
if the original Darkfall was about 10 years and Vanguard released woefully unfinished at 5 years, I suspect it's longer than 5 years.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
An astute observer over on MoP noted the new EU server's name is Esclabor, clearly demonstrating Mark hasn't lost his sense of wry humor.
Should have been obvious really, Esc labor, escape labor, clearly intentional and accurately reflects this team's overall approach to the game's development.
Sharing the official site link so folks can see it's not a typo.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While no joke, 9 years to make a game is, IMHO way too long, 5 years should have been the benchmark, to have something out the door regardless.
But what is that based on?
We tend to talk about AAA mmorpg's taking about 3.5 or so years. What is the breakdown that says an indy mmorpg takes 5 years as a "benchmark?"
Truth, It's based on real world building, you have around 5 years from Funding to Built, before investors really start to get upset.. with some reasonable variances.
As such, I figure, if you only get 5 years to build something like a sky scraper, you should only get 5 years to build a game.
It just makes sense to me, and feels about right for a time frame.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Should have been obvious really, Esc labor, escape labor, clearly intentional and accurately reflects this team's overall approach to the game's development.
Are you serious or am I just slow on the uptake? Because to me the server name sounds like a wordplay on Excalibur.
Edit: A quick Wiki search revealed that
In Arthurian legend, King Esclabor the Unknown (Astlabor, Esclabort, Scalabrone; -le Mescogneu, -li Mesconneü, -li Mesconneuz) is a wandering Saracen lord from a vaguely Middle Eastern land, usually either Babylon (in today's Iraq) or Galilee (today's northern Israel). He is the father of Palamedes, Safir, and Segwarides, among others. During his long stay in Britain, Esclabor initially hides his faith, trying to pass as a Christian, but soon becomes widely known as a valiant pagan knight.
Should have been obvious really, Esc labor, escape labor, clearly intentional and accurately reflects this team's overall approach to the game's development.
Are you serious or am I just slow on the uptake? Because to me the server name sounds like a wordplay on Excalibur.
Edit: A quick Wiki search revealed that
In Arthurian legend, King Esclabor the Unknown (Astlabor, Esclabort, Scalabrone; -le Mescogneu, -li Mesconneü, -li Mesconneuz) is a wandering Saracen lord from a vaguely Middle Eastern land, usually either Babylon (in today's Iraq) or Galilee (today's northern Israel). He is the father of Palamedes, Safir, and Segwarides, among others. During his long stay in Britain, Esclabor initially hides his faith, trying to pass as a Christian, but soon becomes widely known as a valiant pagan knight.
I often forget there's still some folks here who don't realize I'm rarely trying to be serious, but thanks for the interesting lore background.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While no joke, 9 years to make a game is, IMHO way too long, 5 years should have been the benchmark, to have something out the door regardless.
But what is that based on?
We tend to talk about AAA mmorpg's taking about 3.5 or so years. What is the breakdown that says an indy mmorpg takes 5 years as a "benchmark?"
Truth, It's based on real world building, you have around 5 years from Funding to Built, before investors really start to get upset.. with some reasonable variances.
As such, I figure, if you only get 5 years to build something like a sky scraper, you should only get 5 years to build a game.
It just makes sense to me, and feels about right for a time frame.
C'mon now, everyone knows making video games is much more difficult and time consuming than raising skyscrapers, landing rovers on Mars or even building aircraft carriers or nuclear attack submarines.
Of course they need two or three more times to create, seeing how they are so artistic and all.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If it ever releases, or at least hits a legit beta status, I'll try it. I'm not afraid to step outside of the usual communal meme responses to things (i.e. complain and whine on forums).
I celebrate any chance for an indie approach to game development being successful ... because they rarely are today. It's a damn, crying shame. We went through a wave of indie Kickstarter projects years back, attempting to find a way to exist in a monopolized market that has made every attempt of ensuring indie development can't exist.
By listening to many on the internet, it appears most just want the motherly embrace of their corporate overlords, and continue playing their RMP/cash shop games with zero innovation. I feel people have so easily forgot WHY companies desperately tried new, untested and unproven methods to develop games.
CU was always high risk. It forced Mark into thinking outside of the box to keep this project going (and make very controversial choices). It varies too wildly from the expectations of the average gamer, bathing in the propaganda of their corporate overlords. If the game is made or fails, the only thing I'll dwell upon is the shit poor state of the overall industry when it comes to taking chances on ANYTHING. Certainly less stress than having to read the endless complaints from people who likely didn't spend a dime on CU, yet demand humanity bare notice to their fathomless pit of grievances.
While no joke, 9 years to make a game is, IMHO way too long, 5 years should have been the benchmark, to have something out the door regardless.
But what is that based on?
We tend to talk about AAA mmorpg's taking about 3.5 or so years. What is the breakdown that says an indy mmorpg takes 5 years as a "benchmark?"
Truth, It's based on real world building, you have around 5 years from Funding to Built, before investors really start to get upset.. with some reasonable variances.
As such, I figure, if you only get 5 years to build something like a sky scraper, you should only get 5 years to build a game.
It just makes sense to me, and feels about right for a time frame.
C'mon now, everyone knows making video games is much more difficult and time consuming than raising skyscrapers, landing rovers on Mars or even building aircraft carriers or nuclear attack submarines.
Of course they need two or three more times to create, seeing how they are so artistic and all.
Eh ?
Fuck that. get-'r-done.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If it ever releases, or at least hits a legit beta status, I'll try it. I'm not afraid to step outside of the usual communal meme responses to things (i.e. complain and whine on forums).
I celebrate any chance for an indie approach to game development being successful ... because they rarely are today. It's a damn, crying shame. We went through a wave of indie Kickstarter projects years back, attempting to find a way to exist in a monopolized market that has made every attempt of ensuring indie development can't exist.
By listening to many on the internet, it appears most just want the motherly embrace of their corporate overlords, and continue playing their RMP/cash shop games with zero innovation. I feel people have so easily forgot WHY companies desperately tried new, untested and unproven methods to develop games.
CU was always high risk. It forced Mark into thinking outside of the box to keep this project going (and make very controversial choices). It varies too wildly from the expectations of the average gamer, bathing in the propaganda of their corporate overlords. If the game is made or fails, the only thing I'll dwell upon is the shit poor state of the overall industry when it comes to taking chances on ANYTHING. Certainly less stress than having to read the endless complaints from people who likely didn't spend a dime on CU, yet demand humanity bare notice to their fathomless pit of grievances.
You totally miss the point.
Guys like Mark told people they knew better, magical ways to deliver the impossible, saying trust us....
They broke that trust, many times over.
Even now, 9 years later Mark, Chris, others can't even share a list of remaining work, much less any sort of projected timeline towards completion.
They could try just being honest...but no, I guess you are right, just like this guy thought
More importantly, even if it's true, the backers of these games are owed the truth...no matter what the apologists try to say otherwise.
It isn't the lack of delivery, it's the continuing deceit and dishonesty that earns them all the ire people can dish out.
I'm a backer, but at this point I'm equally happy if the game eventually releases or, I get to dance over it's grave.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
Why not both? Call out the developers for significantly underestimating the time and money required for their project, and call out the frustrated backers who resort to very cheap shots.
I tend to agree with this.
I mean, I don't blame anyone for a little miffed the timeline was off by several years, and that really shows some serious incompetence on the Studio's part.
But, at the same time, if they go around shitting all over the game, they need to own up to the bad press they are generating as well, after all the most effective means of advertising is word of mouth, so if you are spewing shit, you need to own up to your own bad press against the game, and how you hurt them.
Too bad too many gamers don't want to hold themselves accountable, while they are trying to point fingers at everyone else. Very shallow, fragile people all things said and done.
I do not “shit” on CU. And fuck off with that gamers “holding themselves accountable “ trash. The company set the expectations and took money based on that. It’s not like they were slightly off. They are over 6 times the amount of time this was supposed to take. The company said it should take 18 months. It’s now been something like 108 months. There is zero excuse for that and not even the slightest percent is on the backers.
Mark should drop the NDA. It simply cannot generate worse PR than they have today. All you have are leakers dropping selected screenshots… with no counter at all other than concept art.
But no… instead let’s keep this going exactly how they are going. I’m sure it will end well.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It’s silly to blame anyone other than the people who underestimated the time and money required for their project by 400% and counting.
Why not both? Call out the developers for significantly underestimating the time and money required for their project, and call out the frustrated backers who resort to very cheap shots.
I tend to agree with this.
I mean, I don't blame anyone for a little miffed the timeline was off by several years, and that really shows some serious incompetence on the Studio's part.
But, at the same time, if they go around shitting all over the game, they need to own up to the bad press they are generating as well, after all the most effective means of advertising is word of mouth, so if you are spewing shit, you need to own up to your own bad press against the game, and how you hurt them.
Too bad too many gamers don't want to hold themselves accountable, while they are trying to point fingers at everyone else. Very shallow, fragile people all things said and done.
Duplicate
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
Now if you are saying that frustrated fans shouldn't tell developers to go die in a fire.. sure that I agree with, but as far as ownership of expectation setting and delivery... that is 100% the developer.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It sounds like you are blaming the players / supporters / founders for criticizing decisions the developers make? So, if promises are made, broken, and left festering by the developer the players that complain are then whiners in your view? Are you basically arguing for an ivory tower environment, having players keep their mouths shut so they can potentially sell their founders packs to unsuspecting rubes? I really hope I am reading you wrong here.
As far as Camelot Unchained is concerned, I don’t really think its main issues are related to a *layman* understanding of placeholders, art choice, sound effects, special ability hot bars etc in game development, those are just low hanging fruit to dunk on these days due to other decisions. Their issues stem purely from a particular management decision, an untreated, festering decision that continues to spoil even the slightest positive news about this project.
Going to setup local servers in Europe for testing purposes, to increase the testing base and in a PVP game to check ping / latency etc. On the cusp a very positive decision, however due to the refund fiasco it takes less than a dozen posts before refunds overshadow everything yet again, on the other site that covers this game one of the first posts about a European server for testing is a statement in German saying they cannot get a refund.
You have a game several years late which even *layman* can understand happens in game development, however dissent will naturally grow year by year of non completion after a promised due date. Not a deal breaker, good regular communication to the community can help combat this, however there is a sweet spot for release, fruit can rot on the vine.
Now take this PVP game, years overdue, that was not going to have PVE (at launch anyway), announce you have been working on a secret PVE game using the PVP’s game engine, try to convince people that developing this game didn’t slow down or take away any resources from your PVP game (knowing that one of the devs left the company as they were uncomfortable with the second game idea which would slow things down right there). Let them know that when this second game takes off, the PVP game will not be left by the roadside (hello Fortnite PVE save the world) but the investors will dedicate a percentage of the profits Fully toward the PVP game, supporters will get the game free, will get some bonuses for the PVP game etc.
Ok not going to lie this is bad, you can understand the reasoning but its difficult to follow why this wasn’t announced when they started the second game, not a year or so into development, its not like the reasons changed (get more investment capital, test the engine / other items, and have a profit generating game). The secrecy is what really seemed to set everyone off, but never fear for those that wanted to jump out and wait while City State finished up both games there were refunds available and folks would hopefully be back when they were ready.
Finally take this PVP game, years overdue, announce a secret PVE game but remember refunds are available for those that want to take a step back. Now stop, on second thought do not stop so you can honesty say you are processing refunds but SLOW those refunds down. Have people wait years without an end in sight and they are bound to talk well about your products, your services and your general state as a human being.
This should have been handled so much better. Mark Jacobs is a proven, accomplished, successful businessman, not a babe in the woods, deer in the headlights, how do I lead a company game developer. He had the experience, the reputation, and the knowledge to know to refund this quickly, cauterize the problem before it went gangrene and eventually it will die down and he may get those people back. Instead, over 2 years later, after the early access release of the second game (unfortunately last I checked less than a dozen people had bothered reviewing it, and the few that gave it a positive review, none had played even 30 hours) it all comes back to the refunds, the soured feeling of delayed refunds, this legitimate complaint has dominated every discussion related to this game.
But yeah, its the players fault.
We can shit all we want on Chris Roberts with Star Citizen, but at least its all out in the open and fully transparent.
Chris made plenty mistakes, overcommitted too many milestones (feature bloat) and missed many deadlines as well. Got plenty critique over the years for it.
Yet it prospers, it has shown clear progress over the years and development continues.
Everyone and their mother with minimal pledge could download the client from first Alpha and could freely talk and post about it. No silly NDA to hide screw ups from the public. As it should be with a crowd-funded game!
And since the last couple years there have been frequent free flying weekends for people to try out the current iteration of the game for free.
Yet, MJ's Camalot Unchained still has an NDA in place after 9 years, is plagued by many controversies, lies and deceit. After 9 years he still has nothing to show for it.
That is a simple fact that cannot be denied!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And yes, CU is under NDA, but the current state of development is publicly discussed once a month by CSE via stream.
I mean, I don't blame anyone for a little miffed the timeline was off by several years, and that really shows some serious incompetence on the Studio's part.
But, at the same time, if they go around shitting all over the game, they need to own up to the bad press they are generating as well, after all the most effective means of advertising is word of mouth, so if you are spewing shit, you need to own up to your own bad press against the game, and how you hurt them.
Too bad too many gamers don't want to hold themselves accountable, while they are trying to point fingers at everyone else. Very shallow, fragile people all things said and done.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Should have been obvious really, Esc labor, escape labor, clearly intentional and accurately reflects this team's overall approach to the game's development.
Sharing the official site link so folks can see it's not a typo.
https://camelotunchained.com/v3/work-shard-play-shard-european-remix-friday-may-6th-2022/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Truth, It's based on real world building, you have around 5 years from Funding to Built, before investors really start to get upset.. with some reasonable variances.
As such, I figure, if you only get 5 years to build something like a sky scraper, you should only get 5 years to build a game.
It just makes sense to me, and feels about right for a time frame.
Edit: A quick Wiki search revealed that
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course they need two or three more times to create, seeing how they are so artistic and all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I celebrate any chance for an indie approach to game development being successful ... because they rarely are today. It's a damn, crying shame. We went through a wave of indie Kickstarter projects years back, attempting to find a way to exist in a monopolized market that has made every attempt of ensuring indie development can't exist.
By listening to many on the internet, it appears most just want the motherly embrace of their corporate overlords, and continue playing their RMP/cash shop games with zero innovation. I feel people have so easily forgot WHY companies desperately tried new, untested and unproven methods to develop games.
CU was always high risk. It forced Mark into thinking outside of the box to keep this project going (and make very controversial choices). It varies too wildly from the expectations of the average gamer, bathing in the propaganda of their corporate overlords. If the game is made or fails, the only thing I'll dwell upon is the shit poor state of the overall industry when it comes to taking chances on ANYTHING. Certainly less stress than having to read the endless complaints from people who likely didn't spend a dime on CU, yet demand humanity bare notice to their fathomless pit of grievances.
Fuck that. get-'r-done.
Guys like Mark told people they knew better, magical ways to deliver the impossible, saying trust us....
They broke that trust, many times over.
Even now, 9 years later Mark, Chris, others can't even share a list of remaining work, much less any sort of projected timeline towards completion.
They could try just being honest...but no, I guess you are right, just like this guy thought
More importantly, even if it's true, the backers of these games are owed the truth...no matter what the apologists try to say otherwise.
It isn't the lack of delivery, it's the continuing deceit and dishonesty that earns them all the ire people can dish out.
I'm a backer, but at this point I'm equally happy if the game eventually releases or, I get to dance over it's grave.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018