Bots play a big role in population as well. When games are first released gold sellers flood the game with bots to grab as much gold as possible inflating the games numbers. When they eventually get banned they make more accounts until it is no longer viable to do so.
Drops in population are both people trying out the game then leaving and bots getting banned. Creating a larger increase in decline after the first couple months.
I would say for a new game seeing a big drop in player count isn't anything to go by. That is the players that flew through the game as fast as possible and the new shiny has worn off. They were never going to stay for a long time to begin with.
Now if you are talking about a game that has been around for a year or more then yeah seeing player count drop is something to worry about. Is it dropping because of a new mechanic that the players don't like? Did an update completely change something that players don't enjoy now? There are hundreds of questions that need to be asked to find out why players are leaving.
It's rare that a game gets players back after they have left, unless it was just a break to play something else. I tend to do 3 month rotations on games a lot, but the games I enjoy I tend to back to, to see what has changed or didn't change.
WoW and FFXIV feel much more deserted than NWdoes, both chat and open world.
I was playing WoW when it had over 10 million players....yet the server I was on had very few people, probably less than 500...It didn't feel like the most popular game......Most of the time I was alone and no one talked in chat.....
WoW and FFXIV feel much more deserted than NWdoes, both chat and open world.
I was playing WoW when it had over 10 million players....yet the server I was on had very few people, probably less than 500...It didn't feel like the most popular game......Most of the time I was alone and no one talked in chat.....
I think WOW had over 400 servers back in the day, so was easy to get spread out and not see many folks around on any specific server.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are only two things to consider when deciding if player count matters. First, are there enough people online at the same time I am, playing through the same content that I am so that I can consistently have enough people around to readily make a group. If I'm interested in doing some solo stuff, who cares how many people are online? Sure, it's nice to see other people running around the world, but they really aren't necessary.
If I want to do 5-man content, then all I need are 4 others around that are willing to run it too. If it's 10, 20, 40, 100+ or whatever, as long as that many people can join up in a few minutes then I'm good to go. Even if there are a million other players if I can't find the few people I need to run the content that I want to do, it just doesn't matter.
Second, are there enough paying customers to keep the lights on? If not, then it really doesn't matter if I have four or 20 or 100 other people that are wanting to run the same stuff I do because the game is gonna twilight, and who wants to keep playing a game that won't be around in a few months?
Comparing populations in games is fraught with issues not the least being how hard they can be to read, not everyone plays through steam for example.
But bearing that in mind the population does give you a handle on what is going on, regardless of actual numbers if there are huge gains or loses that is significant but what are the reasons for such sea changes?
We have seen that players jump on every flavour of the month like it was the last game to ever be published, most certainly with MMOs. The player base then stays one to three months and then can drop to a tenth of what it was at its height. The butterflies are of to the next flavour of the month, they will not stay. For any genre that relies on long term players this is dire, MMOs most of all because of the PvP, economy and community aspects. I see no way out of this unless the studios are prepared to make huge changes. I totally agree with Kanishka that there is too much emphasis on the numbers, but this won't be solved just by wagging a finger at player psychology.
Rating a game on Steam current Players is still a better way to judge a Game then Judging based of Twitch Views like many ppl do nowadays........
And in MMOs i think its not that bad to atleast see if its worth playing if an MMO is dead and thats why you cant even play the endgame at its fullest why even bother.
But then many MMOs are not only Steam related playerbases like Neverwinter for instance many ppl play via the ARC Launcher ... TESO is the same i guess ? i never rly played TESO activly but when i tested it it had a Launcher besides Steam.
The top 10 games on twitch really are the ones worth playing.
There are only two things to consider when deciding if player count matters. First, are there enough people online at the same time I am, playing through the same content that I am so that I can consistently have enough people around to readily make a group. If I'm interested in doing some solo stuff, who cares how many people are online? Sure, it's nice to see other people running around the world, but they really aren't necessary.
If I want to do 5-man content, then all I need are 4 others around that are willing to run it too. If it's 10, 20, 40, 100+ or whatever, as long as that many people can join up in a few minutes then I'm good to go. Even if there are a million other players if I can't find the few people I need to run the content that I want to do, it just doesn't matter.
Second, are there enough paying customers to keep the lights on? If not, then it really doesn't matter if I have four or 20 or 100 other people that are wanting to run the same stuff I do because the game is gonna twilight, and who wants to keep playing a game that won't be around in a few months?
You missed the 3rd point: Are the servers populated enough to avoid consolidation? If not, what impact could that have on my experience? In most PvE games it won't have much. In a game like New World it has a massive impact as companies lose the population centers they fought for and built up and it blew up the balance of power on even the non-moving servers.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's rare that a game gets players back after they have left, unless it was just a break to play something else. I tend to do 3 month rotations on games a lot, but the games I enjoy I tend to back to, to see what has changed or didn't change.
This has changed a lot with the change in monetization going from Sub to F2P, and the rise of 3rd party social platforms like Discord.
With sub based games, once a player left, it was very rare that they would return, mainly due to the paywall of returning, and they needing to ask themselves if they want to pay the sub fee just to see if all the things that drove them away in the first place are still there.
With F2P games, there is a whole culture of leaving and coming back, since it does not cost them anything to return. So when players walk away, for whatever reasons, they often will still keep contact through discord, and if something changes or expansions happen, they come back, check things out and what have you.
But there is a huge return culture with F2P games, that did not exist with Sub, so, numbers are again, not really that much an indicator of a games success or if they have a solid population. They might have, a huge population of people like you, that are on rotation, or just taking a break due to burn out, or just checking out a new shiny, but still will fall back to their old standby.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I would of given this article a well written spanking but you can tell its bait by them saying "Both New World and Final Fantasy XIV share similar player counts these days" not only do they tell you they know nothing about what there writing about but that the only reason they said it was to get people to comment since they know no one likes New World.
Heres some advice though, how about you guys actually write better articles detailing why games like New World are suffering from failure. That way developers that happen to possibly swing by this dead site can learn instead of seeing there false success.
Then maybe this website and the developer will succeed because lying and avoiding the facts/truths only delay the inevitability of the end.
Depends on the game and server. Age of Conan's Pvp server has a pop that seems to be in the double digits. In a case like that it really does matter.
For Age of Conan (PVE) or LotRO, not so much. World chat lets you know others are out there to talk to or for help and there's always spots you can go to to see other players.
DDO kind of falls into that same category except the lack of world chat makes it seem very empty.
Now Pirates of the Burning Seas it mattered a LOT. Economics were at the base of the game and when the pop went way south, the AH's dried up making new players unable to buy the new ships they needed to play. What pop remains has gone the way of alts making stuff for the others on that account and what does make it to the AH is so over priced a new player is SOL.
Player counts matter in as much as the worlds are built to function properly with a certain amount of players in them. While many devs try to work to address that - often in scaling the number of initial servers with a follow-up plan of condensing it once the playerbase drops to the 20-30 expected to remain, gaming sites and gaming "journalists" consistently become a wrench in the works.
They know this pattern, because it has been the same for almost TWO DECADES, but "Dev plan for predicted consolidation working as expected" doesn't sell as well as "NewCool Online pop drops 80% in the first month. Is this the end of NCO?" does.
What the gaming sites do as they whore themselves out for clicks and views is push a tipping point that amplifies the curve, damaging the game communities and creating more work for the devs.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I would of given this article a well written spanking but you can tell its bait by them saying "Both New World and Final Fantasy XIV share similar player counts these days"
I didn't know where to go with that when I read it.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
It definitely matters in the context of a game truly built around multiplayer interactions. For instance: Deep Rock Galactic would not work without teammates.
In the context of most MMORPGs today, you don't have to worry about player population until you hit max level.
Ofc it matters, but in gameplay design wise it might not so much. For example New World could still operate with 2000 players. And it would not make difference, because in the end it doesn't matter for you if there is 1 full server or 20 full servers. Your gameplay experience will still be same.
I thought player count mattered until I got really into Project: Gorgon. While the game still looks heinous, it has one of the friendliest and most active communities around.
Oddly enough the game does not feel "dead" despite it's very, very low player count.
I thought player count mattered until I got really into Project: Gorgon. While the game still looks heinous, it has one of the friendliest and most active communities around.
Oddly enough the game does not feel "dead" despite it's very, very low player count.
What matters is how many people you interact with, much more than how many are present in the world.
In FO76 I used to talk to other players, fight with them etc far more frequently in the limited 25 person instances than say Lost Ark where in 3 months I've interacted with almost no one despite there being players (and bots) everywhere I go.
It's my own fault as I won't queue up for random dungeons, but I do join in for the world events with others, but no actual interaction required to run them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If there is something that needs 5 people to do. There only needs to be 4 other people on willing to do it.
That's not how the math of putting a group together works.
If there is something that needs 5 people and it's something everyone wants to do once, you need one hell of a lot more than 4 others online when the idea pops into your head that you want to do that 1 and done thing now.
400 others to get your 5 would not be an unusual requirement at all.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
When i see news of a game like elden ring having a lower player count after x amount of time. I could care less, skyrim, fallout 4, it doesn't matter once bit. In an mmo, it really does make a difference. Especially if it's a larger world. 20k can be no on in sight for days other than a couple here and there in main cities. if it was 250k, cool. Like others said, if you have almost a mil and go to 20k.. that's saying something, you will ALWAYS have drop off after the first couple months.. but the majority of you player base is not a good indication no matter how you spin it.
Project Gorgon has like 150 players and has been having them for years. The players are fine with it and the developers seem content with it as well. I think the game is considered a success by both the players and the developers.
A friend of mine is very obsessed by popular games - if something is gaining popularity, he feels an urge to play it and feels bad if he doesn't. I usually never care if something is popular or not, I only care if it looks interesting to me.
Comments
Drops in population are both people trying out the game then leaving and bots getting banned. Creating a larger increase in decline after the first couple months.
Now if you are talking about a game that has been around for a year or more then yeah seeing player count drop is something to worry about. Is it dropping because of a new mechanic that the players don't like? Did an update completely change something that players don't enjoy now? There are hundreds of questions that need to be asked to find out why players are leaving.
It's rare that a game gets players back after they have left, unless it was just a break to play something else. I tend to do 3 month rotations on games a lot, but the games I enjoy I tend to back to, to see what has changed or didn't change.
I was playing WoW when it had over 10 million players....yet the server I was on had very few people, probably less than 500...It didn't feel like the most popular game......Most of the time I was alone and no one talked in chat.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If I want to do 5-man content, then all I need are 4 others around that are willing to run it too. If it's 10, 20, 40, 100+ or whatever, as long as that many people can join up in a few minutes then I'm good to go. Even if there are a million other players if I can't find the few people I need to run the content that I want to do, it just doesn't matter.
Second, are there enough paying customers to keep the lights on? If not, then it really doesn't matter if I have four or 20 or 100 other people that are wanting to run the same stuff I do because the game is gonna twilight, and who wants to keep playing a game that won't be around in a few months?
But bearing that in mind the population does give you a handle on what is going on, regardless of actual numbers if there are huge gains or loses that is significant but what are the reasons for such sea changes?
We have seen that players jump on every flavour of the month like it was the last game to ever be published, most certainly with MMOs. The player base then stays one to three months and then can drop to a tenth of what it was at its height. The butterflies are of to the next flavour of the month, they will not stay. For any genre that relies on long term players this is dire, MMOs most of all because of the PvP, economy and community aspects. I see no way out of this unless the studios are prepared to make huge changes. I totally agree with Kanishka that there is too much emphasis on the numbers, but this won't be solved just by wagging a finger at player psychology.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
The top 10 games on twitch really are the ones worth playing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
With sub based games, once a player left, it was very rare that they would return, mainly due to the paywall of returning, and they needing to ask themselves if they want to pay the sub fee just to see if all the things that drove them away in the first place are still there.
With F2P games, there is a whole culture of leaving and coming back, since it does not cost them anything to return. So when players walk away, for whatever reasons, they often will still keep contact through discord, and if something changes or expansions happen, they come back, check things out and what have you.
But there is a huge return culture with F2P games, that did not exist with Sub, so, numbers are again, not really that much an indicator of a games success or if they have a solid population. They might have, a huge population of people like you, that are on rotation, or just taking a break due to burn out, or just checking out a new shiny, but still will fall back to their old standby.
Heres some advice though, how about you guys actually write better articles detailing why games like New World are suffering from failure. That way developers that happen to possibly swing by this dead site can learn instead of seeing there false success.
Then maybe this website and the developer will succeed because lying and avoiding the facts/truths only delay the inevitability of the end.
Do Player Counts Matter?
Depends on the game and server. Age of Conan's Pvp server has a pop that seems to be in the double digits. In a case like that it really does matter.
For Age of Conan (PVE) or LotRO, not so much. World chat lets you know others are out there to talk to or for help and there's always spots you can go to to see other players.
DDO kind of falls into that same category except the lack of world chat makes it seem very empty.
Now Pirates of the Burning Seas it mattered a LOT. Economics were at the base of the game and when the pop went way south, the AH's dried up making new players unable to buy the new ships they needed to play. What pop remains has gone the way of alts making stuff for the others on that account and what does make it to the AH is so over priced a new player is SOL.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
They know this pattern, because it has been the same for almost TWO DECADES, but "Dev plan for predicted consolidation working as expected" doesn't sell as well as "NewCool Online pop drops 80% in the first month. Is this the end of NCO?" does.
What the gaming sites do as they whore themselves out for clicks and views is push a tipping point that amplifies the curve, damaging the game communities and creating more work for the devs.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
In the context of most MMORPGs today, you don't have to worry about player population until you hit max level.
Oddly enough the game does not feel "dead" despite it's very, very low player count.
In FO76 I used to talk to other players, fight with them etc far more frequently in the limited 25 person instances than say Lost Ark where in 3 months I've interacted with almost no one despite there being players (and bots) everywhere I go.
It's my own fault as I won't queue up for random dungeons, but I do join in for the world events with others, but no actual interaction required to run them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If there is something that needs 5 people and it's something everyone wants to do once, you need one hell of a lot more than 4 others online when the idea pops into your head that you want to do that 1 and done thing now.
400 others to get your 5 would not be an unusual requirement at all.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
A friend of mine is very obsessed by popular games - if something is gaining popularity, he feels an urge to play it and feels bad if he doesn't. I usually never care if something is popular or not, I only care if it looks interesting to me.