Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First, if you'd actually played the game you wouldn't have to guess about dragons, which in ESO require a group to do in the open world against just 1 dragon.
Secondly the opposite as seen recently in Embers Adrift of 6 player beating on one bandit for 3+ minutes is about as much fun as watching paint dry.
Third (and this also goes to the point of actually playing games) AOE grinding big pulls is neither unique to ESO nor new. This has been a thing since the second gen MMOs. And you do need to be selective about which mobs you grind. A pull of 2 or 3 giants and/or their camp buddies, mammoths, in ESO will kill most players.
No offense meant about watching paint dry if that's something you enjoy. To each their own, but personally I want to play, not watch paint dry
As others have said, there is very easy and very tough content in ESO and everything in between. That isn't one of ESO's warts. It's just plain common sense game development for the wide demographics that MMOs attract and have always attracted. Not only that but "must group" design and/or "always intense" everywhere are shitty design because the reality of "must group" is that you literally spend hours not playing and just assembling and reassembling groups and waiting for others to come back from being AFK, game crashes, etc., and "always intense" is fucking exhausting.
MMOs have evolved into content of varying degrees of difficulty and some required grouping not because developers are idiots or because current MMOers are weak casual noobs. They have evolved into what they are because players actually want variety and choices to do a range of easy to hard activities in the same game, instead of having some guy named Adolph telling you how you must always play.
"Adolph"? Really? To be honest with you, I don't believe this kind of crapola because I've heard it all so often before and then found out it was just that, crapola. You are doing the same thing that always happens, picking out specific things that are not the typical overall experience, to defend a game. And I'm calling BS.
If it's BS it should be pretty easy for you to refute every bit of BS with facts... I'm all ears.
See why I post more rarely here ? I'm sick of some posters, between the "I never played the game or I only played at release ages ago, but I know everything about it" type and the troll posting insulting arrogant bullshit type, it's quickly boring and feeling like you're debating with brick walls.
I'm also eagerly waiting for facts, but I'm not holding my breath.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
People often say this, but I rather enjoyed it, well except for the janky light attack weaving.
When you play a MMORPG you don't expect to have the latest DS style combat, ESO compares quite well with other MMOs. The weaving was the only issue I ever had with it, but then some players expect to see Zorro like moves every time they swing a blade.
First, if you'd actually played the game you wouldn't have to guess about dragons, which in ESO require a group to do in the open world against just 1 dragon.
Secondly the opposite as seen recently in Embers Adrift of 6 player beating on one bandit for 3+ minutes is about as much fun as watching paint dry.
Third (and this also goes to the point of actually playing games) AOE grinding big pulls is neither unique to ESO nor new. This has been a thing since the second gen MMOs. And you do need to be selective about which mobs you grind. A pull of 2 or 3 giants and/or their camp buddies, mammoths, in ESO will kill most players.
No offense meant about watching paint dry if that's something you enjoy. To each their own, but personally I want to play, not watch paint dry
As others have said, there is very easy and very tough content in ESO and everything in between. That isn't one of ESO's warts. It's just plain common sense game development for the wide demographics that MMOs attract and have always attracted. Not only that but "must group" design and/or "always intense" everywhere are shitty design because the reality of "must group" is that you literally spend hours not playing and just assembling and reassembling groups and waiting for others to come back from being AFK, game crashes, etc., and "always intense" is fucking exhausting.
MMOs have evolved into content of varying degrees of difficulty and some required grouping not because developers are idiots or because current MMOers are weak casual noobs. They have evolved into what they are because players actually want variety and choices to do a range of easy to hard activities in the same game, instead of having some guy named Adolph telling you how you must always play.
"Adolph"? Really? To be honest with you, I don't believe this kind of crapola because I've heard it all so often before and then found out it was just that, crapola. You are doing the same thing that always happens, picking out specific things that are not the typical overall experience, to defend a game. And I'm calling BS.
If it's BS it should be pretty easy for you to refute every bit of BS with facts... I'm all ears.
Of course I can't disprove your cherry-picked particulars.
First, if you'd actually played the game you wouldn't have to guess about dragons, which in ESO require a group to do in the open world against just 1 dragon.
Secondly the opposite as seen recently in Embers Adrift of 6 player beating on one bandit for 3+ minutes is about as much fun as watching paint dry.
Third (and this also goes to the point of actually playing games) AOE grinding big pulls is neither unique to ESO nor new. This has been a thing since the second gen MMOs. And you do need to be selective about which mobs you grind. A pull of 2 or 3 giants and/or their camp buddies, mammoths, in ESO will kill most players.
No offense meant about watching paint dry if that's something you enjoy. To each their own, but personally I want to play, not watch paint dry
As others have said, there is very easy and very tough content in ESO and everything in between. That isn't one of ESO's warts. It's just plain common sense game development for the wide demographics that MMOs attract and have always attracted. Not only that but "must group" design and/or "always intense" everywhere are shitty design because the reality of "must group" is that you literally spend hours not playing and just assembling and reassembling groups and waiting for others to come back from being AFK, game crashes, etc., and "always intense" is fucking exhausting.
MMOs have evolved into content of varying degrees of difficulty and some required grouping not because developers are idiots or because current MMOers are weak casual noobs. They have evolved into what they are because players actually want variety and choices to do a range of easy to hard activities in the same game, instead of having some guy named Adolph telling you how you must always play.
"Adolph"? Really? To be honest with you, I don't believe this kind of crapola because I've heard it all so often before and then found out it was just that, crapola. You are doing the same thing that always happens, picking out specific things that are not the typical overall experience, to defend a game. And I'm calling BS.
If it's BS it should be pretty easy for you to refute every bit of BS with facts... I'm all ears.
Of course I can't disprove your cherry-picked particulars.
Wait, what? In his first example he brings up dragons in ESO being hard to beat.
Lineage 1, Lineage 2, DAOC, WOW, Lost Ark even, all have dragons which are impossible to beat solo on level, most MMORPGs do I think, how is that cherry picking, it's just a plain, provable fact.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First, if you'd actually played the game you wouldn't have to guess about dragons, which in ESO require a group to do in the open world against just 1 dragon.
Secondly the opposite as seen recently in Embers Adrift of 6 player beating on one bandit for 3+ minutes is about as much fun as watching paint dry.
Third (and this also goes to the point of actually playing games) AOE grinding big pulls is neither unique to ESO nor new. This has been a thing since the second gen MMOs. And you do need to be selective about which mobs you grind. A pull of 2 or 3 giants and/or their camp buddies, mammoths, in ESO will kill most players.
No offense meant about watching paint dry if that's something you enjoy. To each their own, but personally I want to play, not watch paint dry
As others have said, there is very easy and very tough content in ESO and everything in between. That isn't one of ESO's warts. It's just plain common sense game development for the wide demographics that MMOs attract and have always attracted. Not only that but "must group" design and/or "always intense" everywhere are shitty design because the reality of "must group" is that you literally spend hours not playing and just assembling and reassembling groups and waiting for others to come back from being AFK, game crashes, etc., and "always intense" is fucking exhausting.
MMOs have evolved into content of varying degrees of difficulty and some required grouping not because developers are idiots or because current MMOers are weak casual noobs. They have evolved into what they are because players actually want variety and choices to do a range of easy to hard activities in the same game, instead of having some guy named Adolph telling you how you must always play.
"Adolph"? Really? To be honest with you, I don't believe this kind of crapola because I've heard it all so often before and then found out it was just that, crapola. You are doing the same thing that always happens, picking out specific things that are not the typical overall experience, to defend a game. And I'm calling BS.
If it's BS it should be pretty easy for you to refute every bit of BS with facts... I'm all ears.
Of course I can't disprove your cherry-picked particulars.
Wait, what? In his first example he brings up dragons in ESO being hard to beat.
Lineage 1, Lineage 2, DAOC, WOW, Lost Ark even, all have dragons which are impossible to beat solo on level, most MMORPGs do I think, how is that cherry picking, it's just a plain, provable fact.
On the other hand looks like you've got nothing?
When I brought up Dragons, I specifically said "games without Scaling". I was talking in general.
Here's my quote: "Heck, with these Power Gaps as big as they are, and without Scaling, you can go back 10 (or 20 or whatever) levels and take on 6 DRAGONS with ease. And that just screams in the face of "Game", "World", and anything else. "
But this too is a common defensive tactic on forums, misrepresenting what someone said to get "points." And I'm sorry, but I have to call that stuff out. Unless @Iselin was just working off of memory and forgot that detail, in which case I'm just noting it.
But yes, Dragons are cherry-picking when the subject is the general game play. I will give ESO credit for keeping Dragons powerful, though. That has been a sore spot for me in days gone by. It's just too bad that the general overland game play is what it is. That makes for a dull world to run around in.
Nothing? You know that's not true, or should, since this topic, including in ESO, is very common.
I miss the time when more people knowing about what they were talking about posted on forums... seems like nowadays, more of those posting don't even play the games they are talking about, nor any game at all.
And @Amaranthar ... Delete has a big ego problem, he feels the need to find ways to be superior to others all the time, his post about 7 years olds is just another drip in an already huge ocean.
You don't have to play these games to know. You can take a quick look at their level based gear and the numbers to see. Logic should be able to tell you what it all means for a MMORPG. But that's a barrier that many of you simply refuse to breach.
Mainly because the scripts this design is built for is too important to many of you and your beer money, I presume.
If you like games where the "power gap" in PvP isn't important, try ESO for instance.
In New World too, once max level, the power gap between item level 500 and 625 is not huge, and you get there pretty fast anyway. You can get 550 as soon as you hit 60 anyway. It's not like WoW, where gear plays a bigger role than skill.
I wouldn't be doing World PvP in a game where I get steamrolled because I didn't grind for months before. I do World PvP in ESO and NW.
The combat type and character development is also a big part of why PvP is more fun and balanced in some games than others. More "action" oriented combat tends to rely more on the skill of the player behind the keyboard than the gear of the character inside the computer.
And yes, you actually have to play those games to know. Otherwise you're just another of those guys who are like "Hey, I didn't see that movie, but I heard is sucks". How many good movies would I have missed with such an attitude.
First of all, I wasn't talking about only PvP.
Then again, because of the power gaps in ESO, they had to put in Scaling. It's the Scaling that removes any feeling of advancement because it literally changes things just to suit your current character.
And I didn't say that power gaps aren't important, they should be there. Just not to this god-mode extreme like in games that don't have the Scaling to "fix" what's broken. Again, that "fix" removes any real feeling of advancement because everything is changed, just to fit you despite your level.
They chose to put in scaling to make the game regions level neutral and allow players to adventure wherever whenever they wish, not to resolve power gaps.
If you can't feel the advancement from three abilities on one bar and a bit of basic gear to more abilities than can currently fit on two bars (which can situationally be swapped out), a huge number actives and passives from class, race, various npc guilds and organizations, and vampire or werewolf if you opt for either, along with multiple equipment set bonuses... then you aren't very perceptive.
Don't people have a brain? I KNOW the stove is hot. I don't HAVE to touch it to KNOW. That analogy is because I KNOW "hot garbage" (for me) when I see it. I don't HAVE to roll around in it to find out.
But if you feel the need, go ahead. It doesn't "negate" opinions you disagree with
People do have brains, but not everything is as easily and readily discernible as the multiple sensory clues of a turned on stove.
Some things require specific knowledge and some even practical experience to fully understand as they are not quite as blatant as a glowing burner radiating heat.
Don't people have a brain? I KNOW the stove is hot. I don't HAVE to touch it to KNOW. That analogy is because I KNOW "hot garbage" (for me) when I see it. I don't HAVE to roll around in it to find out.
But if you feel the need, go ahead. It doesn't "negate" opinions you disagree with
People do have brains, but not everything is as easily and readily discernible as the multiple sensory clues of a turned on stove.
Some things require specific knowledge and some even practical experience to fully understand as they are not quite as blatant as a glowing burner radiating heat.
Knowledge contrary to opinion does negate it.
Agreed. I know I'm the odd one out, but my "opinions" can be changed through further discussions
I give the same consideration to others.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
So we have lost Delete, hope you are back soon Delete.
Also some of the exchanges between me and Korrigan were removed, really no idea why. Though I might have missed a lot overnight, neither of us had said anything reproachable.
Hi Scot, I'm back, I posted something here, but backed off do to peoples sensitivity
First, if you'd actually played the game you wouldn't have to guess about dragons, which in ESO require a group to do in the open world against just 1 dragon.
Secondly the opposite as seen recently in Embers Adrift of 6 player beating on one bandit for 3+ minutes is about as much fun as watching paint dry.
Third (and this also goes to the point of actually playing games) AOE grinding big pulls is neither unique to ESO nor new. This has been a thing since the second gen MMOs. And you do need to be selective about which mobs you grind. A pull of 2 or 3 giants and/or their camp buddies, mammoths, in ESO will kill most players.
No offense meant about watching paint dry if that's something you enjoy. To each their own, but personally I want to play, not watch paint dry
As others have said, there is very easy and very tough content in ESO and everything in between. That isn't one of ESO's warts. It's just plain common sense game development for the wide demographics that MMOs attract and have always attracted. Not only that but "must group" design and/or "always intense" everywhere are shitty design because the reality of "must group" is that you literally spend hours not playing and just assembling and reassembling groups and waiting for others to come back from being AFK, game crashes, etc., and "always intense" is fucking exhausting.
MMOs have evolved into content of varying degrees of difficulty and some required grouping not because developers are idiots or because current MMOers are weak casual noobs. They have evolved into what they are because players actually want variety and choices to do a range of easy to hard activities in the same game, instead of having some guy named Adolph telling you how you must always play.
"Adolph"? Really? To be honest with you, I don't believe this kind of crapola because I've heard it all so often before and then found out it was just that, crapola. You are doing the same thing that always happens, picking out specific things that are not the typical overall experience, to defend a game. And I'm calling BS.
If it's BS it should be pretty easy for you to refute every bit of BS with facts... I'm all ears.
See why I post more rarely here ? I'm sick of some posters, between the "I never played the game or I only played at release ages ago, but I know everything about it" type and the troll posting insulting arrogant bullshit type, it's quickly boring and feeling like you're debating with brick walls.
I'm also eagerly waiting for facts, but I'm not holding my breath.
Well, I'm one of those people your talking about. I played at release when it was buggy as hell with the single realm shards, and the game world was on rails, along with the combat being easy. So I quit because no need to play with others in an mmorpg.
I came back years later and found ESO was awful WAY WORST THAN I EXPECTED !!
soooo, I was right all along, you can know what to expect without playing !
I only played because the game was only 5 bucks on Steam. But end up being a waste of time.
I miss the time when more people knowing about what they were talking about posted on forums... seems like nowadays, more of those posting don't even play the games they are talking about, nor any game at all.
And @Amaranthar ... Delete has a big ego problem, he feels the need to find ways to be superior to others all the time, his post about 7 years olds is just another drip in an already huge ocean.
You don't have to play these games to know. You can take a quick look at their level based gear and the numbers to see. Logic should be able to tell you what it all means for a MMORPG. But that's a barrier that many of you simply refuse to breach.
Mainly because the scripts this design is built for is too important to many of you and your beer money, I presume.
If you like games where the "power gap" in PvP isn't important, try ESO for instance.
In New World too, once max level, the power gap between item level 500 and 625 is not huge, and you get there pretty fast anyway. You can get 550 as soon as you hit 60 anyway. It's not like WoW, where gear plays a bigger role than skill.
I wouldn't be doing World PvP in a game where I get steamrolled because I didn't grind for months before. I do World PvP in ESO and NW.
The combat type and character development is also a big part of why PvP is more fun and balanced in some games than others. More "action" oriented combat tends to rely more on the skill of the player behind the keyboard than the gear of the character inside the computer.
And yes, you actually have to play those games to know. Otherwise you're just another of those guys who are like "Hey, I didn't see that movie, but I heard is sucks". How many good movies would I have missed with such an attitude.
First of all, I wasn't talking about only PvP.
Then again, because of the power gaps in ESO, they had to put in Scaling. It's the Scaling that removes any feeling of advancement because it literally changes things just to suit your current character.
And I didn't say that power gaps aren't important, they should be there. Just not to this god-mode extreme like in games that don't have the Scaling to "fix" what's broken. Again, that "fix" removes any real feeling of advancement because everything is changed, just to fit you despite your level.
They chose to put in scaling to make the game regions level neutral and allow players to adventure wherever whenever they wish, not to resolve power gaps.
If you can't feel the advancement from three abilities on one bar and a bit of basic gear to more abilities than can currently fit on two bars (which can situationally be swapped out), a huge number actives and passives from class, race, various npc guilds and organizations, and vampire or werewolf if you opt for either, along with multiple equipment set bonuses... then you aren't very perceptive.
And why did they need to make the regions "level neutral"? Because of the Power Gaps. And those new things you point to as "advancement", what do they matter? It's all "level neutral", right?
And I see you got an "agree" and an "insightful" for that malarky. What have people come to? Has the current state of MMORPG gaming turned into something like Zombies eating brains? (The answer is yes, btw.)
They chose to put in scaling to make the game regions level neutral and allow players to adventure wherever whenever they wish, not to resolve power gaps.
If you can't feel the advancement from three abilities on one bar and a bit of basic gear to more abilities than can currently fit on two bars (which can situationally be swapped out), a huge number actives and passives from class, race, various npc guilds and organizations, and vampire or werewolf if you opt for either, along with multiple equipment set bonuses... then you aren't very perceptive.
And why did they need to make the regions "level neutral"? Because of the Power Gaps. And those new things you point to as "advancement", what do they matter? It's all "level neutral", right?
And I see you got an "agree" and an "insightful" for that malarky. What have people come to? Has the current state of MMORPG gaming turned into something like Zombies eating brains? (The answer is yes, btw.)
Whilst you know I'm a proponent of horizontal progression, the One Tamriel change wasn't really about power gaps.
Zenimax made an Elder Scrolls game that didn't really feel or play like an Elder Scrolls game. They made a generic themepark MMO that didn't really appeal to existing MMO fans, and nor did it appeal to existing Elder Scrolls fans. Sales were shit, retention was shit, hence the delay for releasing on consoles.
One Tamriel was all about making ESO actually feel like an Elder Scrolls game, so that it would appeal to the massive existing Elder Scrolls fanbase. Hence the scaling. Hence the shift away from linear story to non-linear story. Just like Oblivion and Skyrim.
[NB: I think the scaling sucked in both Oblivion and Skyrim too, and I am firmly of the belief that if they'd have designed a horizontal progression system from the start, rather than going vertical and then squashing it, the game would have been much better]
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
They chose to put in scaling to make the game regions level neutral and allow players to adventure wherever whenever they wish, not to resolve power gaps.
If you can't feel the advancement from three abilities on one bar and a bit of basic gear to more abilities than can currently fit on two bars (which can situationally be swapped out), a huge number actives and passives from class, race, various npc guilds and organizations, and vampire or werewolf if you opt for either, along with multiple equipment set bonuses... then you aren't very perceptive.
And why did they need to make the regions "level neutral"? Because of the Power Gaps. And those new things you point to as "advancement", what do they matter? It's all "level neutral", right?
And I see you got an "agree" and an "insightful" for that malarky. What have people come to? Has the current state of MMORPG gaming turned into something like Zombies eating brains? (The answer is yes, btw.)
Whilst you know I'm a proponent of horizontal progression, the One Tamriel change wasn't really about power gaps.
Zenimax made an Elder Scrolls game that didn't really feel or play like an Elder Scrolls game. They made a generic themepark MMO that didn't really appeal to existing MMO fans, and nor did it appeal to existing Elder Scrolls fans. Sales were shit, retention was shit, hence the delay for releasing on consoles.
One Tamriel was all about making ESO actually feel like an Elder Scrolls game, so that it would appeal to the massive existing Elder Scrolls fanbase. Hence the scaling. Hence the shift away from linear story to non-linear story. Just like Oblivion and Skyrim.
[NB: I think the scaling sucked in both Oblivion and Skyrim too, and I am firmly of the belief that if they'd have designed a horizontal progression system from the start, rather than going vertical and then squashing it, the game would have been much better]
While I agree with the rest of your post, it does boil down to the big Power Gaps. Without them, none of it is a problem in the first place.
Your brief description of the history there shows that this is, indeed, very important to making a great game, as but one component.
They chose to put in scaling to make the game regions level neutral and allow players to adventure wherever whenever they wish, not to resolve power gaps.
If you can't feel the advancement from three abilities on one bar and a bit of basic gear to more abilities than can currently fit on two bars (which can situationally be swapped out), a huge number actives and passives from class, race, various npc guilds and organizations, and vampire or werewolf if you opt for either, along with multiple equipment set bonuses... then you aren't very perceptive.
And why did they need to make the regions "level neutral"? Because of the Power Gaps. And those new things you point to as "advancement", what do they matter? It's all "level neutral", right?
And I see you got an "agree" and an "insightful" for that malarky. What have people come to? Has the current state of MMORPG gaming turned into something like Zombies eating brains? (The answer is yes, btw.)
Whilst you know I'm a proponent of horizontal progression, the One Tamriel change wasn't really about power gaps.
Zenimax made an Elder Scrolls game that didn't really feel or play like an Elder Scrolls game. They made a generic themepark MMO that didn't really appeal to existing MMO fans, and nor did it appeal to existing Elder Scrolls fans. Sales were shit, retention was shit, hence the delay for releasing on consoles.
One Tamriel was all about making ESO actually feel like an Elder Scrolls game, so that it would appeal to the massive existing Elder Scrolls fanbase. Hence the scaling. Hence the shift away from linear story to non-linear story. Just like Oblivion and Skyrim.
[NB: I think the scaling sucked in both Oblivion and Skyrim too, and I am firmly of the belief that if they'd have designed a horizontal progression system from the start, rather than going vertical and then squashing it, the game would have been much better]
They were pretty transparent early on, that the game was DAOC in an Elder Scrolls skin. They bent over backwards trying to gerrymander in the Tri-faction basis. This despite the fan base not being that interested in the form. The fanbase wanted (Morrowind-Oblivion-Skyrim) online.
I was in the closed beta, and gave them that feedback. But they were too far along to change, even if they'd suddenly got religion. Thus the years of painstakingly filing off the design elements that they'd championed earlier. I'm surprised the head developer managed to keep his job.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I really still don't get an Elder Scrolls vibe from ESO. Scaling isn't what made an ES game an ES game. Nor do the way the narrative lines are presented remind me of ES.
They never nailed the ES vibe imo, despite creating a pretty good game.
To be honest, they could've saved themselves a ton of money and likely made just as much by creating a cross between Destiny shared world and Vermintide style melee combat to bring ES into the multiplayer arena.
They never nailed the ES vibe imo, despite creating a pretty good game.
Not enough bugs?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So we have lost Delete, hope you are back soon Delete.
Also some of the exchanges between me and Korrigan were removed, really no idea why. Though I might have missed a lot overnight, neither of us had said anything reproachable.
Hi Scot, I'm back, I posted something here, but backed off do to peoples sensitivity
Welcome back.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
They never nailed the ES vibe imo, despite creating a pretty good game.
Not enough bugs?
Damn right! In part it's inevitable: I never thought of ES in terms of seeing a ton of other players running around. The games have been such intimate experiences, it is jarring to me to see so many other Vestiges on the same path.
That's why I mentioned the Destiny shared world style- that way, you could meet solitary adventurers in passing. You could also build the story around a party of adventurers and keep it a lot more intimate imo.
I myself have gotten to the point where, like Torval who used to post here, MMORPGs don't seem worth the effort to me unless they bring something truly unique with regards to massive multiplayer interaction with the world and content.
They never nailed the ES vibe imo, despite creating a pretty good game.
Not enough bugs?
Damn right! In part it's inevitable: I never thought of ES in terms of seeing a ton of other players running around. The games have been such intimate experiences, it is jarring to me to see so many other Vestiges on the same path.
That's why I mentioned the Destiny shared world style- that way, you could meet solitary adventurers in passing. You could also build the story around a party of adventurers and keep it a lot more intimate imo.
I myself have gotten to the point where, like Torval who used to post here, MMORPGs don't seem worth the effort to me unless they bring something truly unique with regards to massive multiplayer interaction with the world and content.
Yeah. The eternal problem of trying to tell single player "hero" stories in multiplayer games. Those work just fine in single player games even when you play as Geralt the witcher but they totally fall apart when you have a bunch of others doing it.
I was just leveling the Dark Brotherhood in ESO last night just because it's one of the few things I've never done. I went into this instanced area with DB NPC to investigate something and there were 3 other players in there doing the same thing and killing the bad guys ahead of me.
There's just no way to get into a story or quest in multiplayer games like you can with single player ones.
It's why I find it so annoying when a promising single player title is announced and a bunch of reddit dweebs start whining about no multiplayer (e.g. Cyberpunk 2077, Starfield, etc.) Like piss off and go away dweebs, I want my single player fix.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I would qualify that at least some of the people complaining about no multiplayer, only mean small scale co-op.
Like Bethesda games tend to have companions and you get at least one that will walk about with you. Just the notion of swapping that position out for a friend is pretty much all I'd ever wanted out of a multiplayer Bethesda experience.
Not endless droves of randos.
It's the style of co-op that Fable 2/3 used as well. It's a big difference, as the focus remains much more comfortably on the main character without any unnecessary loose ends pulling away from that.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
See why I post more rarely here ? I'm sick of some posters, between the "I never played the game or I only played at release ages ago, but I know everything about it" type and the troll posting insulting arrogant bullshit type, it's quickly boring and feeling like you're debating with brick walls.
I'm also eagerly waiting for facts, but I'm not holding my breath.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Once upon a time....
Lineage 1, Lineage 2, DAOC, WOW, Lost Ark even, all have dragons which are impossible to beat solo on level, most MMORPGs do I think, how is that cherry picking, it's just a plain, provable fact.
On the other hand looks like you've got nothing?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Here's my quote:
"Heck, with these Power Gaps as big as they are, and without Scaling, you can go back 10 (or 20 or whatever) levels and take on 6 DRAGONS with ease. And that just screams in the face of "Game", "World", and anything else. "
But this too is a common defensive tactic on forums, misrepresenting what someone said to get "points." And I'm sorry, but I have to call that stuff out.
Unless @Iselin was just working off of memory and forgot that detail, in which case I'm just noting it.
But yes, Dragons are cherry-picking when the subject is the general game play.
I will give ESO credit for keeping Dragons powerful, though. That has been a sore spot for me in days gone by.
It's just too bad that the general overland game play is what it is. That makes for a dull world to run around in.
Nothing? You know that's not true, or should, since this topic, including in ESO, is very common.
Once upon a time....
People do have brains, but not everything is as easily and readily discernible as the multiple sensory clues of a turned on stove.
Some things require specific knowledge and some even practical experience to fully understand as they are not quite as blatant as a glowing burner radiating heat.
Knowledge contrary to opinion does negate it.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm back, I posted something here, but backed off do to peoples sensitivity
I came back years later and found ESO was awful WAY WORST THAN I EXPECTED !!
soooo,
I was right all along, you can know what to expect without playing !
I only played because the game was only 5 bucks on Steam. But end up being a waste of time.
Because of the Power Gaps.
And those new things you point to as "advancement", what do they matter? It's all "level neutral", right?
And I see you got an "agree" and an "insightful" for that malarky.
What have people come to? Has the current state of MMORPG gaming turned into something like Zombies eating brains?
(The answer is yes, btw.)
Once upon a time....
Your brief description of the history there shows that this is, indeed, very important to making a great game, as but one component.
Once upon a time....
I was in the closed beta, and gave them that feedback. But they were too far along to change, even if they'd suddenly got religion. Thus the years of painstakingly filing off the design elements that they'd championed earlier. I'm surprised the head developer managed to keep his job.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
They never nailed the ES vibe imo, despite creating a pretty good game.
To be honest, they could've saved themselves a ton of money and likely made just as much by creating a cross between Destiny shared world and Vermintide style melee combat to bring ES into the multiplayer arena.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That's why I mentioned the Destiny shared world style- that way, you could meet solitary adventurers in passing. You could also build the story around a party of adventurers and keep it a lot more intimate imo.
I myself have gotten to the point where, like Torval who used to post here, MMORPGs don't seem worth the effort to me unless they bring something truly unique with regards to massive multiplayer interaction with the world and content.
I was just leveling the Dark Brotherhood in ESO last night just because it's one of the few things I've never done. I went into this instanced area with DB NPC to investigate something and there were 3 other players in there doing the same thing and killing the bad guys ahead of me.
There's just no way to get into a story or quest in multiplayer games like you can with single player ones.
It's why I find it so annoying when a promising single player title is announced and a bunch of reddit dweebs start whining about no multiplayer (e.g. Cyberpunk 2077, Starfield, etc.) Like piss off and go away dweebs, I want my single player fix.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Like Bethesda games tend to have companions and you get at least one that will walk about with you. Just the notion of swapping that position out for a friend is pretty much all I'd ever wanted out of a multiplayer Bethesda experience.
Not endless droves of randos.
It's the style of co-op that Fable 2/3 used as well. It's a big difference, as the focus remains much more comfortably on the main character without any unnecessary loose ends pulling away from that.