Actually from the very beginning it was supposed to be a very low magic world at the start. With magic items extremely rare and I think no spellcasters. I think the idea was to slowly introduce the magic back into the world. Which I think is pretty much what they are still doing, just renamed as Embers.
Actually, the game had various versions of elemental mastery and casters back in the alpha for April 2020; earth, air, fire, water, life, spirit, and death magic.
I had already completed around 50 VFX for spells by that point and most of those spells were in the game at that point; one can find them via livestreams I did with various outlets (since the Embers team deleted all the YouTube content). Interestingly enough, they still appear to be using at least one of my Life magic VFX for their bind wound/bandage ability =P
However, relics were needed for casting. TRUE casters (not requiring relic items) were part of the lore coming later.
So yeah, Saga of Lucimia had spellcasters Magic was, of course, still rare
Actually from the very beginning it was supposed to be a very low magic world at the start. With magic items extremely rare and I think no spellcasters. I think the idea was to slowly introduce the magic back into the world. Which I think is pretty much what they are still doing, just renamed as Embers.
Actually, the game had various versions of elemental mastery and casters back in the alpha for April 2020; earth, air, fire, water, life, spirit, and death magic.
I had already completed around 50 VFX for spells by that point; one can find them via livestreams I did with various outlets (since the Embers team deleted all the YouTube content). Interestingly enough, they still appear to be using my Life magic VFX for their bind wound/bandage ability =P
However, relics were needed for casting. TRUE casters (not requiring relic items) were part of the lore coming later.
So yeah, Saga of Lucimia had spellcasters Magic was, of course, still rare
Their game, by comparison, has no magic.
I guess I haven't kept up.. but what are Embers? I assumed that was their way of introducing magic.
This is how it was first described: A lot has changed over the last year for Stormhaven Studios. As may of you know we’ve rebranded our upcoming MMORPG to Embers Adrift. This name is related to the lore of our game and its “magic system” called Alchemy. Alchemy, in Embers Adrift, is the process of taking an ore called ember that contains a naturally occurring form of energy and then manipulating it to do certain things.
To me, an outsider, it seemed that they simply changed the elemental items you envisioned enabling the casting of spells to embers and alchemy.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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I guess I haven't kept up.. but what are Embers? I assumed that was their way of introducing magic.
This is how it was first described: A lot has changed over the last year for Stormhaven Studios. As may of you know we’ve rebranded our upcoming MMORPG to Embers Adrift. This name is related to the lore of our game and its “magic system” called Alchemy. Alchemy, in Embers Adrift, is the process of taking an ore called ember that contains a naturally occurring form of energy and then manipulating it to do certain things.
To me, an outsider, it seemed that they simply changed the elemental items you envisioned enabling the casting of spells to embers and alchemy.
I can't speak to what they have now. From what I've seen on their forums, Alchemy isn't really in the game yet and is a post-launch feature that they are promoting as something that is part of launch. Again, I'm not the expert on what they have presently I just know it ain't the magic system that was designed when it was still Saga of Lucimia and there were over 80 spells in the design doc and around 50 already in the game at that point in time.
Actually from the very beginning it was supposed to be a very low magic world at the start. With magic items extremely rare and I think no spellcasters. I think the idea was to slowly introduce the magic back into the world. Which I think is pretty much what they are still doing, just renamed as Embers.
After browsing that, yeah it was probably going to suck either way. We will never know for sure if under Andersons leadership they might have changed course into a better implementation, but probably not. I do know there were trolls in the game they removed.
Here are some things they kept:
Anderson: "What we’re working really hard on is we’re not doing hitpoint bloat, skill bloat, or gear bloat."
Yep they kept that, skills in this game are absolutely horrible. They are so bad nobody even knows if their partner is actually doing anything useful without an icon telling them.
Anderson: Six months of gameplay of just running around in rusty old chain and leather armor and then you get your first magical piece. That piece of gear is going to last you anywhere from six months to a year."
Kept this pretty much, loot in this game is completely subpar. You are pretty much a peasant your entire existence to max level. Any gear you get is unnoticeable from anything else. No cool loot to find anywhere. The only part they forgot was to actually put a piece of cool gear into the game. But then again, maybe after a year nobody has found one yet, so possibly they do exist.
Anderson: "We’re also working on about 500 skills in the game. While you do have your primary, secondary, and tertiary skills, you can have all of those skills."
This is something they dropped, that could have seemed interesting. But what good is 500 skills when they limit using any but a small few anyways.
I guess I haven't kept up.. but what are Embers? I assumed that was their way of introducing magic.
This is how it was first described: A lot has changed over the last year for Stormhaven Studios. As may of you know we’ve rebranded our upcoming MMORPG to Embers Adrift. This name is related to the lore of our game and its “magic system” called Alchemy. Alchemy, in Embers Adrift, is the process of taking an ore called ember that contains a naturally occurring form of energy and then manipulating it to do certain things.
To me, an outsider, it seemed that they simply changed the elemental items you envisioned enabling the casting of spells to embers and alchemy.
I can't speak to what they have now. From what I've seen on their forums, Alchemy isn't really in the game yet and is a post-launch feature that they are promoting as something that is part of launch. Again, I'm not the expert on what they have presently I just know it ain't the magic system that was designed when it was still Saga of Lucimia and there were over 80 spells in the design doc and around 50 already in the game at that point in time.
That it isn't in the game yet doesn't negate that a low fantasy magic system will be in the game, as has been mentioned on their forum and in the release announcement.
Knowing that and still saying the game has no magic is a bit deceptive when you choose to leave "yet" out of your statement.
Actually from the very beginning it was supposed to be a very low magic world at the start. With magic items extremely rare and I think no spellcasters. I think the idea was to slowly introduce the magic back into the world. Which I think is pretty much what they are still doing, just renamed as Embers.
Actually, the game had various versions of elemental mastery and casters back in the alpha for April 2020; earth, air, fire, water, life, spirit, and death magic.
I had already completed around 50 VFX for spells by that point; one can find them via livestreams I did with various outlets (since the Embers team deleted all the YouTube content). Interestingly enough, they still appear to be using my Life magic VFX for their bind wound/bandage ability =P
However, relics were needed for casting. TRUE casters (not requiring relic items) were part of the lore coming later.
So yeah, Saga of Lucimia had spellcasters Magic was, of course, still rare
Their game, by comparison, has no magic.
I guess I haven't kept up.. but what are Embers? I assumed that was their way of introducing magic.
This is how it was first described: A lot has changed over the last year for Stormhaven Studios. As may of you know we’ve rebranded our upcoming MMORPG to Embers Adrift. This name is related to the lore of our game and its “magic system” called Alchemy. Alchemy, in Embers Adrift, is the process of taking an ore called ember that contains a naturally occurring form of energy and then manipulating it to do certain things.
To me, an outsider, it seemed that they simply changed the elemental items you envisioned enabling the casting of spells to embers and alchemy.
That's a bit of stretch as nothing about the quote suggests that the two magic systems have anything in common. The description of the system is too vague to support that assumption. Once details of the new system are more available how close it is to that previous will be more apparent.
With the "magic system" in quotes and it being called Alchemy, my speculation is that there will be no spell casting but instead be a system of transmutation where ember, inherently unnatural itself, will be used as a catalyst to change the nature of other things. It would be like turning lead to gold, but instead turning mundane items into magically modified ones.
It fits with their description anyway, and I think would be suited to the low fantasy setting of the game as it is now. But, that's just a guess that could also be easily seen as a stretch with the limited information available.
A persons definition of low magic can vary so widely its hard to know exactly with such a vague description. 1 person could have hundreds of spells using low graphics, while another could have a tree shadow figure in the distance that sometimes disappears which represents the entirety of magic.
The problem with trying to push this no magic concept, is it puts the devs into a bind. People saying heals from 5 feet away are obviously magic, so the devs twist themselves in knots going from bandages, to entertaining suggestions to switch to heal darts.
What I don't understand, is why even go to a low/no magic concept for the game anyways. Its not like magic is unpopular. Especially since this game was supposed to be inspired from D&D. It makes no sense to me at all.
That's a bit of stretch as nothing about the quote suggests that the two magic systems have anything in common. The description of the system is too vague to support that assumption. Once details of the new system are more available how close it is to that previous will be more apparent.
With the "magic system" in quotes and it being called Alchemy, my speculation is that there will be no spell casting but instead be a system of transmutation where ember, inherently unnatural itself, will be used as a catalyst to change the nature of other things. It would be like turning lead to gold, but instead turning mundane items into magically modified ones.
It fits with their description anyway, and I think would be suited to the low fantasy setting of the game as it is now. But, that's just a guess that could also be easily seen as a stretch with the limited information available.
I agree with you that Alchemy with transmutations was the original plan. But if this game lasts more than a few months, I don't think they will go forward with that limited interpretation. I know originally they were defending their lack of magic big time. Over time I seen them twist themselves in a full pretzel trying to defend their previous concept while watching the negative feedback of lack of magic drip drip drip.
Soon reality will hit them in the face, and once they start to untwist themselves they will backtrack on all these ideas and figure out ways to be low/no magic but still have magic. Eventually they will drop the concept altogether.
That's a bit of stretch as nothing about the quote suggests that the two magic systems have anything in common. The description of the system is too vague to support that assumption. Once details of the new system are more available how close it is to that previous will be more apparent.
With the "magic system" in quotes and it being called Alchemy, my speculation is that there will be no spell casting but instead be a system of transmutation where ember, inherently unnatural itself, will be used as a catalyst to change the nature of other things. It would be like turning lead to gold, but instead turning mundane items into magically modified ones.
It fits with their description anyway, and I think would be suited to the low fantasy setting of the game as it is now. But, that's just a guess that could also be easily seen as a stretch with the limited information available.
I agree with you that Alchemy with transmutations was the original plan. But if this game lasts more than a few months, I don't think they will go forward with that limited interpretation. I know originally they were defending their lack of magic big time. Over time I seen them twist themselves in a full pretzel trying to defend their previous concept while watching the negative feedback of lack of magic drip drip drip.
Soon reality will hit them in the face, and once they start to untwist themselves they will backtrack on all these ideas and figure out ways to be low/no magic but still have magic. Eventually they will drop the concept altogether.
It's hard to say without knowing what the extent of Alchemy is intended to be. Transmutation could be just about anything. The only things certain is that it requires something to transmute and a means to do so. The nature of that change can be defined any way they want and expanded over time as they see fit.
At least it is a distinctive approach compared to most MMORPGs and would be in keeping with the setting. If they dump that idea and replace it with something flash bang generic it will end up rather mundane. I can get that in all kinds of places, as can everyone else.
It's hard to say without knowing what the extent of Alchemy is intended to be. Transmutation could be just about anything. The only things certain is that it requires something to transmute and a means to do so. The nature of that change can be defined any way they want and expanded over time as they see fit.
At least it is a distinctive approach compared to most MMORPGs and would be in keeping with the setting. If they dump that idea and replace it with something flash bang generic it will end up rather mundane. I can get that in all kinds of places, as can everyone else.
What could be and what will be are not the same. No confidence they could develop any system that is either interesting or fun. So people can theorize all day, let me know when it happens LOL.
What I don't understand, is why even go to a low/no magic concept for the game anyways. Its not like magic is unpopular. Especially since this game was supposed to be inspired from D&D. It makes no sense to me at all.
That's pretty easy to guess, magic was left out to reduce development time and get a MMP version out the door this year as the funding had either run out or to keep a commitment to their investors.
If a team has to hit a date on fixed or limited funding the only place there is any room to give is in terms of quality and features which is well evidenced in Embers from what has been written.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What I don't understand, is why even go to a low/no magic concept for the game anyways. Its not like magic is unpopular. Especially since this game was supposed to be inspired from D&D. It makes no sense to me at all.
That's pretty easy to guess, magic was left out to reduce development time and get a MMP version out the door this year as the funding had either run out or to keep a commitment to their investors.
If a team has to hit a date on fixed or limited funding the only place there is any room to give is in terms of quality and features which is well evidenced in Embers from what has been written.
Yep no doubt this is why, but I think it was a huge mistake. They could have kept magic in, just like Lord of the Rings movie, they didn't have the fancy graphics for magic. Invisibility, magic invisible force used on Gandalf, Magic light. Extremely low fantasy but they didn't run from magic either.
Embers spent a bunch of time purging their game of magic, and making passes over and over again on systems to make sure they didn't have magic. They could have just left it all in, and updated sparsely with low magic rather than remove it all.
Having no magic is a major turnoff for a ton of people. They probably killed more than 70% of their player base with this one unnecessary decision.
Comments
I had already completed around 50 VFX for spells by that point and most of those spells were in the game at that point; one can find them via livestreams I did with various outlets (since the Embers team deleted all the YouTube content). Interestingly enough, they still appear to be using at least one of my Life magic VFX for their bind wound/bandage ability =P
However, relics were needed for casting. TRUE casters (not requiring relic items) were part of the lore coming later.
So yeah, Saga of Lucimia had spellcasters
Their game, by comparison, has no magic.
This is how it was first described:
A lot has changed over the last year for Stormhaven Studios. As may of you know we’ve rebranded our upcoming MMORPG to Embers Adrift. This name is related to the lore of our game and its “magic system” called Alchemy. Alchemy, in Embers Adrift, is the process of taking an ore called ember that contains a naturally occurring form of energy and then manipulating it to do certain things.
To me, an outsider, it seemed that they simply changed the elemental items you envisioned enabling the casting of spells to embers and alchemy.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Interesting, thanks for that info.
After browsing that, yeah it was probably going to suck either way. We will never know for sure if under Andersons leadership they might have changed course into a better implementation, but probably not. I do know there were trolls in the game they removed.
Here are some things they kept:
Anderson: "What we’re working really hard on is we’re not doing hitpoint bloat, skill bloat, or gear bloat."
Yep they kept that, skills in this game are absolutely horrible. They are so bad nobody even knows if their partner is actually doing anything useful without an icon telling them.
Anderson: Six months of gameplay of just running around in rusty old chain and leather armor and then you get your first magical piece. That piece of gear is going to last you anywhere from six months to a year."
Kept this pretty much, loot in this game is completely subpar. You are pretty much a peasant your entire existence to max level. Any gear you get is unnoticeable from anything else. No cool loot to find anywhere. The only part they forgot was to actually put a piece of cool gear into the game. But then again, maybe after a year nobody has found one yet, so possibly they do exist.
Anderson: "We’re also working on about 500 skills in the game. While you do have your primary, secondary, and tertiary skills, you can have all of those skills."
This is something they dropped, that could have seemed interesting. But what good is 500 skills when they limit using any but a small few anyways.
Knowing that and still saying the game has no magic is a bit deceptive when you choose to leave "yet" out of your statement.
That's a bit of stretch as nothing about the quote suggests that the two magic systems have anything in common. The description of the system is too vague to support that assumption. Once details of the new system are more available how close it is to that previous will be more apparent.
With the "magic system" in quotes and it being called Alchemy, my speculation is that there will be no spell casting but instead be a system of transmutation where ember, inherently unnatural itself, will be used as a catalyst to change the nature of other things. It would be like turning lead to gold, but instead turning mundane items into magically modified ones.
It fits with their description anyway, and I think would be suited to the low fantasy setting of the game as it is now. But, that's just a guess that could also be easily seen as a stretch with the limited information available.
The problem with trying to push this no magic concept, is it puts the devs into a bind. People saying heals from 5 feet away are obviously magic, so the devs twist themselves in knots going from bandages, to entertaining suggestions to switch to heal darts.
What I don't understand, is why even go to a low/no magic concept for the game anyways. Its not like magic is unpopular. Especially since this game was supposed to be inspired from D&D. It makes no sense to me at all.
I agree with you that Alchemy with transmutations was the original plan. But if this game lasts more than a few months, I don't think they will go forward with that limited interpretation. I know originally they were defending their lack of magic big time. Over time I seen them twist themselves in a full pretzel trying to defend their previous concept while watching the negative feedback of lack of magic drip drip drip.
Soon reality will hit them in the face, and once they start to untwist themselves they will backtrack on all these ideas and figure out ways to be low/no magic but still have magic. Eventually they will drop the concept altogether.
It's hard to say without knowing what the extent of Alchemy is intended to be. Transmutation could be just about anything. The only things certain is that it requires something to transmute and a means to do so. The nature of that change can be defined any way they want and expanded over time as they see fit.
At least it is a distinctive approach compared to most MMORPGs and would be in keeping with the setting. If they dump that idea and replace it with something flash bang generic it will end up rather mundane. I can get that in all kinds of places, as can everyone else.
If a team has to hit a date on fixed or limited funding the only place there is any room to give is in terms of quality and features which is well evidenced in Embers from what has been written.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Embers spent a bunch of time purging their game of magic, and making passes over and over again on systems to make sure they didn't have magic. They could have just left it all in, and updated sparsely with low magic rather than remove it all.
Having no magic is a major turnoff for a ton of people. They probably killed more than 70% of their player base with this one unnecessary decision.