I dunno man… most of those I personally don’t see as defining old school.
Well I agree it shouldn't be, but coincidently enough, this game Embers says that is what old school is.
My definition of old school is very little handholding, harder mob difficulty, player economy dependent and a social dynamic that encourages players engage with other players.
I dunno man… most of those I personally don’t see as defining old school.
Well I really hope after Embers, other devs start to wise up and realize that the time wasters are not old school.
Lack of inventory or storage Lack of fast travel and teleportation Lack of mounts Slow health/mana recovery Rare potions Super rare gear or gear that doesn't have a lot of cool traits/stats and stuff on it.
Couple more added to the list Lack of compass Limited skills and abilities Super slow combat Huge death penalties
Unfortunately everything I hear coming out of Pantheon is going the same exact direction.
Maybe if I am lucky a competent dev team will wake up, take the best stuff from EQ & UO and other MMO's and combine that stuff to make a really good MMO that reinvigorates the MMO genre. But its only a dream at the moment.
I dunno man… most of those I personally don’t see as defining old school.
Well I really hope after Embers, other devs start to wise up and realize that the time wasters are not old school.
Lack of inventory or storage Lack of fast travel and teleportation Lack of mounts Slow health/mana recovery Rare potions Super rare gear or gear that doesn't have a lot of cool traits/stats and stuff on it.
Couple more added to the list Lack of compass Limited skills and abilities Super slow combat Huge death penalties
Unfortunately everything I hear coming out of Pantheon is going the same exact direction.
Maybe if I am lucky a competent dev team will wake up, take the best stuff from EQ & UO and other MMO's and combine that stuff to make a really good MMO that reinvigorates the MMO genre. But its only a dream at the moment.
Err, isn't that pretty much what Vanilla WOW delivered, perhaps leaning more heavily on EQ and some others than UO, but still.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I guess to me old school means fairly specialized characters, and grinding mobs was the ony way to level up. Characters couldn't do every job either, so grouping was almost mandatory. I started DAOC in 2001, and that is old school to me.
In 2004, WoW came out but I didn't play it. instead, I moved to Ryzom, an old school sandbox MMO, and City of Heroes, where the Trinity was destroyed. In CoH, you don't really need a healer if you have good debuffers.
Modern to me is basically limited characters, who can do most everything and don't have to group up as much. Twitch, or "action" combat is common. The abilities available are much less than old-school. Compare a class from DAOC to a class from ESO as an example. I think this was driven by the move to consoles, where inputs are very limited compared to a keyboard.
Whether those were in old games or not is kind of tangential. Those weren't what games were designed around for the most part.
I do not think Garriott sat down with Koster and said "Hey, one of our core design principles must be lack of mounts"
Today, games are designed around exploiting and monetizing pain points. Want more inventory space? Well you can add a bag slot for $5! Want a Unicorn Mount? $25!
That wasn't envisioned 30 years ago.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Whether those were in old games or not is kind of tangential. Those weren't what games were designed around for the most part.
I do not think Garriott sat down with Koster and said "Hey, one of our core design principles must be lack of mounts"
Today, games are designed around exploiting and monetizing pain points. Want more inventory space? Well you can add a bag slot for $5! Want a Unicorn Mount? $25!
That wasn't envisioned 30 years ago.
To me that's one of bigger shifts in game design between back then and now.
The "old school" games were designed around trying to keep players paying a sub over the long haul, in additional to the usual box price and expansions some single player games had at the time.
In order to accomplish this developers tried adding more and different features or gameplay loops to keep players interested in staying on.
Now games appear to be designed on how many ways they can extract the most money from gamers, without tipping over the edge into player revulsion, which has happened with a few attempts like loot boxes and maybe NFTs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ experiment on P99 didn't work out quite so good.
It is not that I don't like the game but getting anything done takes so long. Running around looking for one mob to kite and kill or meditating to full is so time consuming. I knew but coming face to face with it again reminds me of why I don't play it any more and why I wish some new game could emulate Everquest with not so much downtime.
They split the population now by opening another server so you hardly see a single soul about. Empty and vast.
My mind keeps thinking of all the other single player games I could be playing instead of reading a book or watching a show on my tablet while I med or regain HP. It is because of all the games that have come and that I have played that I can no longer just sit down and waste the time on these things. I feel guilty about it but this is the truth about how I feel now.
I still love the music and the world and with a heavy heart I uninstalled it.
I agree with some of your points Cybersig but not all. The game does need some work still. They will be optimizing, fixes, and adding more classes and roles later. It is not alpha state quality.
The battles are made to be slower and more engaging similar to D&D and some oldschool mmorpgs. You can be a crafter. You can be a trader. You can be a gatherer. Your opinion on it being boring is just your opinion. Its more about the journey and friends you make along the way, not just the endgame grind.
The community is the best I have seen in a very long time. While there may be a few with a bad attitude that is normal. It is not just for people that liked EQ. It is for anyone who enjoys D&D, older rpgs on console, older mmorpgs, roleplayers, and gamers that want a game and community more like it used to be.
Lastly do not always listen to others opinions or reviews of something but judge for yourself.
He understood the premise... it was that it was badly implemented. I know you're excited about a new game, harkening back to older games that you never played, but...
I will concede on the EQ reference, as it is the only game I listed I didn't actually play. I was basically going with people I know that played EQ and that people say WoW is an EQ clone. How can WoW be an EQ clone, and yet Embers = EQ? WTF WoW is nothing like Embers, not sure how that makes sense, but whatever I never played EQ so I cannot comment on that.
With that said, fine then say this is a subpar EQ clone. But old school? no, there is nothing old-school about trash. EQ wasn't the first MMO, nor was it the only MMO from 1997 to 2005 which is considered old school.
The only real similarity to old school this game has to me, is a really old looking user interface and chat system. So when people are asking for old school, they are not talking about wanting to bring back old interfaces and chat systems.
Look, you're saying you love this game and it's new school, but guess what: it hearkens back to old school, and makes everything worse. I'm not sure why you're championing this game with comparative analysis when you never even played EQ. If you like the game fine, but here is the reality:
Only nostalgic people will stay for this game. You are not nostalgic, you are just reactionary.
I will concede on the EQ reference, as it is the only game I listed I didn't actually play. I was basically going with people I know that played EQ and that people say WoW is an EQ clone. How can WoW be an EQ clone, and yet Embers = EQ? WTF WoW is nothing like Embers, not sure how that makes sense, but whatever I never played EQ so I cannot comment on that.
With that said, fine then say this is a subpar EQ clone. But old school? no, there is nothing old-school about trash. EQ wasn't the first MMO, nor was it the only MMO from 1997 to 2005 which is considered old school.
The only real similarity to old school this game has to me, is a really old looking user interface and chat system. So when people are asking for old school, they are not talking about wanting to bring back old interfaces and chat systems.
Look, you're saying you love this game and it's new school, but guess what: it hearkens back to old school, and makes everything worse. I'm not sure why you're championing this game with comparative analysis when you never even played EQ. If you like the game fine, but here is the reality:
Only nostalgic people will stay for this game. You are not nostalgic, you are just reactionary.
If you think Brainy is championing Ember Adrift you haven't read enough of his posts about the game or weren't paying enough attention when doing so.
He is generally critical of it and many of the decisions made for it. Perhaps you should explore his posting history on the topic to better acquaint yourself with how he does feel about the game as he has not been shy in expressing it.
I can't imagine how you're only getting 20fps with a 4090. You might be doing something wrong.
No, the problem is with Embers Adrift. They have optimization problems where you can kill any computer's performance unless you lower some of their graphic settings.
I can't imagine how you're only getting 20fps with a 4090. You might be doing something wrong.
No, the problem is with Embers Adrift. They have optimization problems where you can kill any computer's performance unless you lower some of their graphic settings.
Perhaps the thing that the player is doing wrong is playing Embers Adrift?
More seriously, never underestimate the ability of slow software to run poorly even on very fast hardware.
Edit: I didn't realize that this thread was an ancient necro. Oops.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My definition of old school is very little handholding, harder mob difficulty, player economy dependent and a social dynamic that encourages players engage with other players.
Lack of inventory or storage
Lack of fast travel and teleportation
Lack of mounts
Slow health/mana recovery
Rare potions
Super rare gear or gear that doesn't have a lot of cool traits/stats and stuff on it.
Couple more added to the list
Lack of compass
Limited skills and abilities
Super slow combat
Huge death penalties
Unfortunately everything I hear coming out of Pantheon is going the same exact direction.
Maybe if I am lucky a competent dev team will wake up, take the best stuff from EQ & UO and other MMO's and combine that stuff to make a really good MMO that reinvigorates the MMO genre. But its only a dream at the moment.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
I do not think Garriott sat down with Koster and said "Hey, one of our core design principles must be lack of mounts"
Today, games are designed around exploiting and monetizing pain points. Want more inventory space? Well you can add a bag slot for $5! Want a Unicorn Mount? $25!
That wasn't envisioned 30 years ago.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The "old school" games were designed around trying to keep players paying a sub over the long haul, in additional to the usual box price and expansions some single player games had at the time.
In order to accomplish this developers tried adding more and different features or gameplay loops to keep players interested in staying on.
Now games appear to be designed on how many ways they can extract the most money from gamers, without tipping over the edge into player revulsion, which has happened with a few attempts like loot boxes and maybe NFTs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It is not that I don't like the game but getting anything done takes so long. Running around looking for one mob to kite and kill or meditating to full is so time consuming. I knew but coming face to face with it again reminds me of why I don't play it any more and why I wish some new game could emulate Everquest with not so much downtime.
They split the population now by opening another server so you hardly see a single soul about. Empty and vast.
My mind keeps thinking of all the other single player games I could be playing instead of reading a book or watching a show on my tablet while I med or regain HP. It is because of all the games that have come and that I have played that I can no longer just sit down and waste the time on these things. I feel guilty about it but this is the truth about how I feel now.
I still love the music and the world and with a heavy heart I uninstalled it.
He understood the premise... it was that it was badly implemented. I know you're excited about a new game, harkening back to older games that you never played, but...
Look, you're saying you love this game and it's new school, but guess what: it hearkens back to old school, and makes everything worse. I'm not sure why you're championing this game with comparative analysis when you never even played EQ. If you like the game fine, but here is the reality:
Only nostalgic people will stay for this game. You are not nostalgic, you are just reactionary.
If you think Brainy is championing Ember Adrift you haven't read enough of his posts about the game or weren't paying enough attention when doing so.
He is generally critical of it and many of the decisions made for it. Perhaps you should explore his posting history on the topic to better acquaint yourself with how he does feel about the game as he has not been shy in expressing it.
There is also some places on the map in the game, which I really like to visit.
More seriously, never underestimate the ability of slow software to run poorly even on very fast hardware.
Edit: I didn't realize that this thread was an ancient necro. Oops.