I don't know that MMOs are dead, just changed. The MMORPGs that were once the only form of MMO have been replaced by ARPGs, MOBAs, MMOFPS and the like. The Role-Playing elements that were once the domain of MMORPGs and CRPGs have been adapted by almost every other genre, and any game that connects multiple players through the Internet claims to be some variation of the MMO part. Then there's survival, which puts a character in a harsh world where you eat and build things and maybe engage in some (frequently unwanted) PvP. If you look carefully, you can probably find some variation of a CCG that's calling itself an MMO. The only genre that isn't trying to co-opt the MMO title are the horrible mature Adult-only graphic titles.
Everything proclaims themselves an MMO, so they aren't dead. I just don't recognize them anymore.
Things changed, not only in the spreading of MMORPG elements to other genres but in MMORPGs themselves. Everything does with the passage of time but many people have difficulty with change in general. There is also almost always the sentiment of what was being better than what is that develops as a person ages.
I think much of the discontent over the state of things is related to these factors.
So are Western MMO's dead? No, I don't think so, I think the audience is fractured, because they have the choices.
This is exactly opposite of what is happening. People are not fractured in the MMO market. People are completely disenfranchised by the lack of good options is where the problem is. What New MMO has come out in the last 5 years that is SO ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONARY and yet cannot get any customers because people are so fractured with amazing options.
There are hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good game to actually release one day.
Its just like in the movie entrainment industry, when they say theaters are dead. When they release a movie that appeals to people, it will drive record revenues. Release good movies and watch how much money it will generate.
The problem is the trash they are trying to sell us has turned people away from the industries. People have lost trust in the MMO genre. Its hard to get people excited when all they see on the table is trash.
But still IF, big IF, an MMO was to release that was actually better than EVERY MMO before it. You would see huge numbers of players. So the genre is in a slumber. Customers are waiting impatiently.
SOLUTION to MMO drought: release the best game ever and watch the profits roll in.
So are Western MMO's dead? No, I don't think so, I think the audience is fractured, because they have the choices.
This is exactly opposite of what is happening. People are not fractured in the MMO market. People are completely disenfranchised by the lack of good options is where the problem is. What New MMO has come out in the last 5 years that is SO ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONARY and yet cannot get any customers because people are so fractured with amazing options.
There are hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good game to actually release one day.
Its just like in the movie entrainment industry, when they say theaters are dead. When they release a movie that appeals to people, it will drive record revenues. Release good movies and watch how much money it will generate.
The problem is the trash they are trying to sell us has turned people away from the industries. People have lost trust in the MMO genre. Its hard to get people excited when all they see on the table is trash.
But still IF, big IF, an MMO was to release that was actually better than EVERY MMO before it. You would see huge numbers of players. So the genre is in a slumber. Customers are waiting impatiently.
SOLUTION to MMO drought: release the best game ever and watch the profits roll in.
Go add up the population of current gen MMO's, and compare it to 5, 10, 15, and 20 years ago. What you'll find, I suspect is that as the genre adds more titles, more people find games that suit them. Obviously we aren't at a peak amount of players, but I suspect you'll find that the number of people playing is a lot greater than what you suspect.
I'd have to 100% disagree with you. The group of people is out there, but with more choices, they are playing a wider variety of games. You are arguing a completely different point, that there isn't anything special, and people aren't playing, but if you look at the overall numbers, you'll find that the number of people playing is comparable to different points over the years, but now instead of 2-3 titles dominating the market, you've got 10-12 titles that divide up the players.
I have to laugh at the comment about hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for something. People these days are playing, but those other games, and genres have pulled some folks from MMO's, as well as brought in new gamers. It's not that people are saying "There isn't an MMO for me, so I'm not playing anything." The numbers don't even remotely support that. What is happening is they are playing other games, other genre's, and even other platforms, like mobile.
Sorry man I appreciate what you are saying, even if you are your statement on your opinion, and trying to put that in the mouths, and make it reflect for other games. The number of people playing just doesn't support it. But hey...I wish you were right.
Go add up the population of current gen MMO's, and compare it to 5, 10, 15, and 20 years ago. What you'll find, I suspect is that as the genre adds more titles, more people find games that suit them. Obviously we aren't at a peak amount of players, but I suspect you'll find that the number of people playing is a lot greater than what you suspect.
I'd have to 100% disagree with you. The group of people is out there, but with more choices, they are playing a wider variety of games.
Look I am not disagreeing with your point that people are spread out playing other games. People are finding entertainment wherever they can. So no I am not saying people are just sitting with their heads in the sand waiting. I think some people have moved away from the industry, but also into other genres to get some entertainment value. So I believe you can play subpar games and move around different genres and play things that are sub optimal waiting for something you really want to play.
If that amazing MMO was to come out, people would gravitate to this new option and there would be plenty of customers for that game.
Where I disagree, is that there are Amazing games being released but not enough customers in the market to play them because there are so many competitive options out there.
There has been nothing in the last 5 years even in the top 10. Maybe a couple in the top 50.
MMO's have been around for about 25 years. 5 years represents 20% of MMO lifetime, we should have at least 2 top 10 releases in the last 5 years. Yet we have ZERO.
MMO genre seems dead because nothing new that is amazing has come out. If anything with technology changes we should get a couple in the top 5 at least.
There has been nothing in the last 5 years even in the top 10. Maybe a couple in the top 50.
MMO's have been around for about 25 years. 5 years represents 20% of MMO lifetime, we should have at least 2 top 10 releases in the last 5 years. Yet we have ZERO.
MMO genre seems dead because nothing new that is amazing has come out. If anything with technology changes we should get a couple in the top 5 at least.
Instead we get forced fed Diablo Immortal.
It is only a problem if one feels it so.
Their ranking is a bit goofy to begin with in that expansions of games are ranked as well as the base game itself.
CoH and WoW claim the majority of the top 10 spots, with the remainder going to ESO, GW2, and SWTOR each being listed once.
FFXIV is ranked at 11 despite being being largely rejected, while the hugely successful FFXIV:ARR is ranked at 12. Also odd.
The list also includes things such as Path of Exile and games not even released yet in the MMORPG ranking.
Their ranking is a bit goofy to begin with in that expansions of games are ranked as well as the base game itself.
CoH and WoW claim the majority of the top 10 spots, with the remainder going to ESO, GW2, and SWTOR each being listed once.
FFXIV is ranked at 11 despite being being largely rejected, while the hugely successful FFXIV:ARR is ranked at 12. Also odd.
The list also includes things such as Path of Exile and games not even released yet in the MMORPG ranking.
That seems a rather bad job of list making.
You can complain and nitpick about the rankings if you want. You are free to click up or down. It just adds up what people click on that site. I am not saying I agree with these ranking, other than is telling what the top 50 looks like.
Either way, pretty much any reputable company will have 10+ year old MMO's dominating the top 10 and top 50 just like this list.
Curious if you think there is some NEW MMO released in the last 5 years that deserves a top 5 spot? Please put it out there. I have been looking for an amazing new MMO LOL.
Please link a better list of BEST MMO's of ALLTIME you think is more accurate AND has MMO's released in the last 5 years dominating the top 10. This should be interesting.
Their ranking is a bit goofy to begin with in that expansions of games are ranked as well as the base game itself.
CoH and WoW claim the majority of the top 10 spots, with the remainder going to ESO, GW2, and SWTOR each being listed once.
FFXIV is ranked at 11 despite being being largely rejected, while the hugely successful FFXIV:ARR is ranked at 12. Also odd.
The list also includes things such as Path of Exile and games not even released yet in the MMORPG ranking.
That seems a rather bad job of list making.
You can complain and nitpick about the rankings if you want. You are free to click up or down. It just adds up what people click on that site. I am not saying I agree with these ranking, other than is telling what the top 50 looks like.
Either way, pretty much any reputable company will have 10+ year old MMO's dominating the top 10 and top 50 just like this list.
Curious if you think there is some NEW MMO released in the last 5 years that deserves a top 5 spot? Please put it out there. I have been looking for an amazing new MMO LOL.
Please link a better list of BEST MMO's of ALLTIME you think is more accurate AND has MMO's released in the last 5 years dominating the top 10. This should be interesting.
I can also make note of the list's inadequacies in raking which was my choice.
Their top 50 doesn't much matter when the same games are listed multiple times in their top 10 and then further included down the line.
I'm not interested in posting lists, but I'll happily point out the flaws in those posted as any that do should take care they link to those at least reasonably constructed.
In a list of all MMORPGs ever nothing released in the last five years should be in the top five. It's not a reasonable expectation when some games of the genre have had decades to establish their footing.
Their ranking is a bit goofy to begin with in that expansions of games are ranked as well as the base game itself.
CoH and WoW claim the majority of the top 10 spots, with the remainder going to ESO, GW2, and SWTOR each being listed once.
FFXIV is ranked at 11 despite being being largely rejected, while the hugely successful FFXIV:ARR is ranked at 12. Also odd.
The list also includes things such as Path of Exile and games not even released yet in the MMORPG ranking.
That seems a rather bad job of list making.
You can complain and nitpick about the rankings if you want. You are free to click up or down. It just adds up what people click on that site. I am not saying I agree with these ranking, other than is telling what the top 50 looks like.
Either way, pretty much any reputable company will have 10+ year old MMO's dominating the top 10 and top 50 just like this list.
Curious if you think there is some NEW MMO released in the last 5 years that deserves a top 5 spot? Please put it out there. I have been looking for an amazing new MMO LOL.
Please link a better list of BEST MMO's of ALLTIME you think is more accurate AND has MMO's released in the last 5 years dominating the top 10. This should be interesting.
That's just it, that if a great game had been released it would have to be listed or else they'd look really foolish. But there is none. But I agree with @KnightFalz that the list itself seems wonky.
Their top 50 doesn't much matter when the same games are listed multiple times in their top 10 and then further included down the line.
Everquest Next and Star Citizen are both on that list
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So are Western MMO's dead? No, I don't think so, I think the audience is fractured, because they have the choices.
This is exactly opposite of what is happening. People are not fractured in the MMO market. People are completely disenfranchised by the lack of good options is where the problem is. What New MMO has come out in the last 5 years that is SO ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONARY and yet cannot get any customers because people are so fractured with amazing options.
There are hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good game to actually release one day.
Its just like in the movie entrainment industry, when they say theaters are dead. When they release a movie that appeals to people, it will drive record revenues. Release good movies and watch how much money it will generate.
The problem is the trash they are trying to sell us has turned people away from the industries. People have lost trust in the MMO genre. Its hard to get people excited when all they see on the table is trash.
But still IF, big IF, an MMO was to release that was actually better than EVERY MMO before it. You would see huge numbers of players. So the genre is in a slumber. Customers are waiting impatiently.
SOLUTION to MMO drought: release the best game ever and watch the profits roll in.
Go add up the population of current gen MMO's, and compare it to 5, 10, 15, and 20 years ago. What you'll find, I suspect is that as the genre adds more titles, more people find games that suit them. Obviously we aren't at a peak amount of players, but I suspect you'll find that the number of people playing is a lot greater than what you suspect.
I'd have to 100% disagree with you. The group of people is out there, but with more choices, they are playing a wider variety of games. You are arguing a completely different point, that there isn't anything special, and people aren't playing, but if you look at the overall numbers, you'll find that the number of people playing is comparable to different points over the years, but now instead of 2-3 titles dominating the market, you've got 10-12 titles that divide up the players.
I have to laugh at the comment about hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for something. People these days are playing, but those other games, and genres have pulled some folks from MMO's, as well as brought in new gamers. It's not that people are saying "There isn't an MMO for me, so I'm not playing anything." The numbers don't even remotely support that. What is happening is they are playing other games, other genre's, and even other platforms, like mobile.
Sorry man I appreciate what you are saying, even if you are your statement on your opinion, and trying to put that in the mouths, and make it reflect for other games. The number of people playing just doesn't support it. But hey...I wish you were right.
There may be more gamers (would be natural at this point), or not, but you actually hit the nail on the head (in my opinion) that more gamers are playing a wider variety of games. That bumps up the "total numbers of gamers." Artificially. I think that's more out of semi-boredom than anything else. Because there's nothing that's grabbing gamers as a great game.
Ideally, at this point of a semi-mature online gaming industry, you'd want to see several games that lead all else and are recognized as the industry leaders by far.
Their top 50 doesn't much matter when the same games are listed multiple times in their top 10 and then further included down the line.
Everquest Next and Star Citizen are both on that list
I saw Star Citizen which was bad enough, but Everquest Next? Yikes!
I's number 60
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
In a list of all MMORPGs ever nothing released in the last five years should be in the top five. It's not a reasonable expectation when some games of the genre have had decades to establish their footing.
No that is not true at all. In 2006 if there was a list of best MMO's of all time, WoW would have been on that list, at or near the top.
So saying it takes more than 5 years for these games to establish themselves before they can be put on an all time best list is rubbish.
It just shows clearly nothing good has come out lately which is why nobody recognizes it as best.
In a list of all MMORPGs ever nothing released in the last five years should be in the top five. It's not a reasonable expectation when some games of the genre have had decades to establish their footing.
No that is not true at all. In 2006 if there was a list of best MMO's of all time, WoW would have been on that list, at or near the top.
So saying it takes more than 5 years for these games to establish themselves before they can be put on an all time best list is rubbish.
It just shows clearly nothing good has come out lately which is why nobody recognizes it as best.
It would have been rubbish, in 2006. We are in 2022 and the list must be considered within the context of today.
Anyway, games are a luxury of sorts. Entertainment, to be precise.
If I cant get a good game, there are other forms of entertainment available. Like, I could get creative myself. I can check out movies. I can read books. Etc.
Anyway, games are a luxury of sorts. Entertainment, to be precise.
If I cant get a good game, there are other forms of entertainment available. Like, I could get creative myself. I can check out movies. I can read books. Etc.
Could even go back to one of these
Not an option at my age, no.
That's how I feel about movies and books...poor substitutes for Netflix and Smart Phones, just can't fathom going back.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Anyway, games are a luxury of sorts. Entertainment, to be precise.
If I cant get a good game, there are other forms of entertainment available. Like, I could get creative myself. I can check out movies. I can read books. Etc.
Could even go back to one of these
Not an option at my age, no.
That's how I feel about movies and books...poor substitutes for Netflix and Smart Phones, just can't fathom going back.
What is not an option at my age is extreme sports, which is what the posting I answered to showed as a picture.
I saw Star Citizen which was bad enough, but Everquest Next? Yikes!
Even if its much later than originally expected, it seems to me that Star Citizen will release in the end. What you can find on YouTube shows a pretty complete game already, albeit unbelievably super realistic and with extremely perfectioned graphics.
Anyway, games are a luxury of sorts. Entertainment, to be precise.
If I cant get a good game, there are other forms of entertainment available. Like, I could get creative myself. I can check out movies. I can read books. Etc.
Could even go back to one of these
Not an option at my age, no.
That's how I feel about movies and books...poor substitutes for Netflix and Smart Phones, just can't fathom going back.
What is not an option at my age is extreme sports, which is what the posting I answered to showed as a picture.
What my point was it's not really a good option for me anyways to walk away from video / computer gaming as it's been my primary form of entertainment since 1978 or so when Space Invaders hit the bars I drank in.
Sure, you can seek entertainment elsewhere, but presumably you already would doing so if they weren't inferior choices.
Besides, I originally had hoped to find a meme of someone playing with a stick and hoop from our grandparents era, but nothing came up so went with the "extreme sports" version.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There was a time in entertainment that West could produce quality products. If the quality is good enough you can demand a decent price. However if the west continues to lower its quality to the lowest denominator, than all that's left is price. The west will lose the price war every time.
Where has the creativity and quality gone?
Now people are saying to support very low quality western products just to send a message? What message would that send? That customers are sheep and will support trash products? How about they make amazing cutting edge games again, then see if they cant demand a decent price for it.
Tell me what MMO exists that is so amazing but at the same time too expensive that nobody is buying it?
Most of 'em are only able to do the "same-old-same-old." Half of them screw that up too. There's surely are a few who are capable of creating a great game that breaks that mold.
Huge dollar investment is probably the big issue. I'm sure the moneybags being told that only the same-old-same-old can work.
Why do that when you can reliably make your nut on releasing an early access product?
Just release an incomplete survival sandbox game with a handful of good ideas and grease some streamer palms, and you can make bank because it costs you a relative pittance and gamers will gladly pay you to eat through the half-finished content so they can follow their favorite streamer's latest "favorite game."
Gamers share much of the blame for the current market. Stop paying for incomplete products that innovate very little, and you create a larger pool of potential revenue to entice studios and publishers to take risks. Become more reserved in your spending, so studios and publishers have to become more innovative to open your wallet.
Or, continue buying battle passes for yet another CoD or BR game, continue paying Early Access for survival sandbox games that differ mostly in aesthetics, and continue crowdfunding harebrained schemes for MMORPGs based on heavy-hit pipe dreams. That way, we can encourage more unfinished games, more over-monetization of gameplay loops, and more borderline scams!
We all know which gamers do out of those two above scenarios. Gamers cannot fathom the idea that market saturation can and does suppress innovation while encouraging more and more predatory marketing and monetization. In today's market, SWG doesn't get made. Neither does DAoC nor EQ. Because those are all expensive and far too different to be accepted in today's design by numbers style market. A bunch of rather mediocre projects need to die so more adventurous, well-funded ideas can be created. Instead, gamers continue plugging those Frankenstein monsters into their nearest wallet-sized charging port, keeping products going that, on their actual gameplay merits, should die.
Market investors look at this genre and see a saturated mess of over-monetized projects. That's unattractive.
There was a time in entertainment that West could produce quality products. If the quality is good enough you can demand a decent price. However if the west continues to lower its quality to the lowest denominator, than all that's left is price. The west will lose the price war every time.
Where has the creativity and quality gone?
Now people are saying to support very low quality western products just to send a message? What message would that send? That customers are sheep and will support trash products? How about they make amazing cutting edge games again, then see if they cant demand a decent price for it.
Tell me what MMO exists that is so amazing but at the same time too expensive that nobody is buying it?
Most of 'em are only able to do the "same-old-same-old." Half of them screw that up too. There's surely are a few who are capable of creating a great game that breaks that mold.
Huge dollar investment is probably the big issue. I'm sure the moneybags being told that only the same-old-same-old can work.
Why do that when you can reliably make your nut on releasing an early access product?
Just release an incomplete survival sandbox game with a handful of good ideas and grease some streamer palms, and you can make bank because it costs you a relative pittance and gamers will gladly pay you to eat through the half-finished content so they can follow their favorite streamer's latest "favorite game."
Gamers share much of the blame for the current market. Stop paying for incomplete products that innovate very little, and you create a larger pool of potential revenue to entice studios and publishers to take risks. Become more reserved in your spending, so studios and publishers have to become more innovative to open your wallet.
Or, continue buying battle passes for yet another CoD or BR game, continue paying Early Access for survival sandbox games that differ mostly in aesthetics, and continue crowdfunding harebrained schemes for MMORPGs based on heavy-hit pipe dreams. That way, we can encourage more unfinished games, more over-monetization of gameplay loops, and more borderline scams!
We all know which gamers do out of those two above scenarios. Gamers cannot fathom the idea that market saturation can and does suppress innovation while encouraging more and more predatory marketing and monetization. In today's market, SWG doesn't get made. Neither does DAoC nor EQ. Because those are all expensive and far too different to be accepted in today's design by numbers style market. A bunch of rather mediocre projects need to die so more adventurous, well-funded ideas can be created. Instead, gamers continue plugging those Frankenstein monsters into their nearest wallet-sized charging port, keeping products going that, on their actual gameplay merits, should die.
Market investors look at this genre and see a saturated mess of over-monetized projects. That's unattractive.
You spend money on crap, and you will get crap. The next generation of games will also be influenced by your spending decision, and you will get even more crap. Then crap will be cloned. All in an effort to separate customers from their wallets.
It's a cycle that can only be broken by some independent thinking mavericks backed with deep pockets and stacks of patience. When those mavericks come along, treat them well. I sincerely doubt they will make an appearance in my lifetime.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I saw Star Citizen which was bad enough, but Everquest Next? Yikes!
Even if its much later than originally expected, it seems to me that Star Citizen will release in the end. What you can find on YouTube shows a pretty complete game already, albeit unbelievably super realistic and with extremely perfectioned graphics.
Maybe, but this isn't a list of what might be one of the best MMORPGs of all time so it should not have been included here.
Market investors look at this genre and see a saturated mess of over-monetized projects. That's unattractive.
This is fine to say in theory. But you are putting the cart before the horse here big time.
What game has come out that was amazing that didn't get enough customers? We cant even get 1 good game per year and you are saying oversaturation?
If an amazing game releases that fails due to lack of customers, then maybe you will have a point.
The real issue, is Dev teams have lost sight of what the customer actually wants, and has just been putting out absolute trash. Even Diablo immortal is making money hand over fist. People are so desperate they will buy anything. These greedy incompetent companies are just force feeding us horse pucks and you are calling that oversaturation.
The real issue, is Dev teams have lost sight of what the customer actually wants, and has just been putting out absolute trash. Even Diablo immortal is making money hand over fist. People are so desperate they will buy anything.
Perhaps the real issue is that the developers needn't even look because people are so desperate they will buy or buy into the promise of virtually anything.
Comments
Things changed, not only in the spreading of MMORPG elements to other genres but in MMORPGs themselves. Everything does with the passage of time but many people have difficulty with change in general. There is also almost always the sentiment of what was being better than what is that develops as a person ages.
I think much of the discontent over the state of things is related to these factors.
This is exactly opposite of what is happening. People are not fractured in the MMO market. People are completely disenfranchised by the lack of good options is where the problem is. What New MMO has come out in the last 5 years that is SO ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and COMPLETELY REVOLUTIONARY and yet cannot get any customers because people are so fractured with amazing options.
There are hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for a good game to actually release one day.
Its just like in the movie entrainment industry, when they say theaters are dead. When they release a movie that appeals to people, it will drive record revenues. Release good movies and watch how much money it will generate.
The problem is the trash they are trying to sell us has turned people away from the industries. People have lost trust in the MMO genre. Its hard to get people excited when all they see on the table is trash.
But still IF, big IF, an MMO was to release that was actually better than EVERY MMO before it. You would see huge numbers of players. So the genre is in a slumber. Customers are waiting impatiently.
SOLUTION to MMO drought: release the best game ever and watch the profits roll in.
Go add up the population of current gen MMO's, and compare it to 5, 10, 15, and 20 years ago. What you'll find, I suspect is that as the genre adds more titles, more people find games that suit them. Obviously we aren't at a peak amount of players, but I suspect you'll find that the number of people playing is a lot greater than what you suspect.
I'd have to 100% disagree with you. The group of people is out there, but with more choices, they are playing a wider variety of games. You are arguing a completely different point, that there isn't anything special, and people aren't playing, but if you look at the overall numbers, you'll find that the number of people playing is comparable to different points over the years, but now instead of 2-3 titles dominating the market, you've got 10-12 titles that divide up the players.
I have to laugh at the comment about hundreds of millions of potential gamers sitting on the sidelines waiting for something. People these days are playing, but those other games, and genres have pulled some folks from MMO's, as well as brought in new gamers. It's not that people are saying "There isn't an MMO for me, so I'm not playing anything." The numbers don't even remotely support that. What is happening is they are playing other games, other genre's, and even other platforms, like mobile.
Sorry man I appreciate what you are saying, even if you are your statement on your opinion, and trying to put that in the mouths, and make it reflect for other games. The number of people playing just doesn't support it. But hey...I wish you were right.
Look I am not disagreeing with your point that people are spread out playing other games. People are finding entertainment wherever they can. So no I am not saying people are just sitting with their heads in the sand waiting. I think some people have moved away from the industry, but also into other genres to get some entertainment value. So I believe you can play subpar games and move around different genres and play things that are sub optimal waiting for something you really want to play.
If that amazing MMO was to come out, people would gravitate to this new option and there would be plenty of customers for that game.
Where I disagree, is that there are Amazing games being released but not enough customers in the market to play them because there are so many competitive options out there.
https://www.ranker.com/list/all-mmorpgs-list/reference
There has been nothing in the last 5 years even in the top 10. Maybe a couple in the top 50.
MMO's have been around for about 25 years. 5 years represents 20% of MMO lifetime, we should have at least 2 top 10 releases in the last 5 years. Yet we have ZERO.
MMO genre seems dead because nothing new that is amazing has come out. If anything with technology changes we should get a couple in the top 5 at least.
Instead we get forced fed Diablo Immortal.
It is only a problem if one feels it so.
Their ranking is a bit goofy to begin with in that expansions of games are ranked as well as the base game itself.
CoH and WoW claim the majority of the top 10 spots, with the remainder going to ESO, GW2, and SWTOR each being listed once.
FFXIV is ranked at 11 despite being being largely rejected, while the hugely successful FFXIV:ARR is ranked at 12. Also odd.
The list also includes things such as Path of Exile and games not even released yet in the MMORPG ranking.
That seems a rather bad job of list making.
You can complain and nitpick about the rankings if you want. You are free to click up or down. It just adds up what people click on that site. I am not saying I agree with these ranking, other than is telling what the top 50 looks like.
Either way, pretty much any reputable company will have 10+ year old MMO's dominating the top 10 and top 50 just like this list.
Curious if you think there is some NEW MMO released in the last 5 years that deserves a top 5 spot? Please put it out there. I have been looking for an amazing new MMO LOL.
Please link a better list of BEST MMO's of ALLTIME you think is more accurate AND has MMO's released in the last 5 years dominating the top 10. This should be interesting.
I can also make note of the list's inadequacies in raking which was my choice.
Their top 50 doesn't much matter when the same games are listed multiple times in their top 10 and then further included down the line.
I'm not interested in posting lists, but I'll happily point out the flaws in those posted as any that do should take care they link to those at least reasonably constructed.
In a list of all MMORPGs ever nothing released in the last five years should be in the top five. It's not a reasonable expectation when some games of the genre have had decades to establish their footing.
But I agree with @KnightFalz that the list itself seems wonky.
Once upon a time....
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I saw Star Citizen which was bad enough, but Everquest Next? Yikes!
I think that's more out of semi-boredom than anything else.
Because there's nothing that's grabbing gamers as a great game.
Ideally, at this point of a semi-mature online gaming industry, you'd want to see several games that lead all else and are recognized as the industry leaders by far.
Once upon a time....
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No that is not true at all. In 2006 if there was a list of best MMO's of all time, WoW would have been on that list, at or near the top.
So saying it takes more than 5 years for these games to establish themselves before they can be put on an all time best list is rubbish.
It just shows clearly nothing good has come out lately which is why nobody recognizes it as best.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sure, you can seek entertainment elsewhere, but presumably you already would doing so if they weren't inferior choices.
Besides, I originally had hoped to find a meme of someone playing with a stick and hoop from our grandparents era, but nothing came up so went with the "extreme sports" version.
Cheers
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just release an incomplete survival sandbox game with a handful of good ideas and grease some streamer palms, and you can make bank because it costs you a relative pittance and gamers will gladly pay you to eat through the half-finished content so they can follow their favorite streamer's latest "favorite game."
Gamers share much of the blame for the current market. Stop paying for incomplete products that innovate very little, and you create a larger pool of potential revenue to entice studios and publishers to take risks. Become more reserved in your spending, so studios and publishers have to become more innovative to open your wallet.
Or, continue buying battle passes for yet another CoD or BR game, continue paying Early Access for survival sandbox games that differ mostly in aesthetics, and continue crowdfunding harebrained schemes for MMORPGs based on heavy-hit pipe dreams. That way, we can encourage more unfinished games, more over-monetization of gameplay loops, and more borderline scams!
We all know which gamers do out of those two above scenarios. Gamers cannot fathom the idea that market saturation can and does suppress innovation while encouraging more and more predatory marketing and monetization. In today's market, SWG doesn't get made. Neither does DAoC nor EQ. Because those are all expensive and far too different to be accepted in today's design by numbers style market. A bunch of rather mediocre projects need to die so more adventurous, well-funded ideas can be created. Instead, gamers continue plugging those Frankenstein monsters into their nearest wallet-sized charging port, keeping products going that, on their actual gameplay merits, should die.
Market investors look at this genre and see a saturated mess of over-monetized projects. That's unattractive.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Maybe, but this isn't a list of what might be one of the best MMORPGs of all time so it should not have been included here.
This is fine to say in theory. But you are putting the cart before the horse here big time.
What game has come out that was amazing that didn't get enough customers? We cant even get 1 good game per year and you are saying oversaturation?
If an amazing game releases that fails due to lack of customers, then maybe you will have a point.
The real issue, is Dev teams have lost sight of what the customer actually wants, and has just been putting out absolute trash. Even Diablo immortal is making money hand over fist. People are so desperate they will buy anything. These greedy incompetent companies are just force feeding us horse pucks and you are calling that oversaturation.