In order for an online game to work outside of a narrow niche market, you have to be able to jump in and play whenever. Having to wait for scheduled siege times or needing to align your schedule with your guild are huge problems. That's fine if it's just one small part of the game and most of the game lets you jump in and play whenever. But when you basically can't play the game when you want to, that's lethal.
The popular PVP games out there have made it so that people can jump in and play whenever. You don't have to pick a particular time of day or get into a particular guild to play League of Legends or Fortnite. If Crowfall can't figure out how to make a game that people can just jump in and play and be effective, then the game is never going anywhere.
i literally forgot this game even existed, i was subscribed to get info on it but i had so few little and sparse emails i didnt even know it had even made it to open beta. sadly my interest already died with it without even getting to play it. i do wish them luck if they do ever get to revive this game or at least move onto another project
i literally forgot this game even existed, i was subscribed to get info on it but i had so few little and sparse emails i didnt even know it had even made it to open beta. sadly my interest already died with it without even getting to play it. i do wish them luck if they do ever get to revive this game or at least move onto another project
This was the conundrum NW faced, looking back at other posters answers you can't just bolt on PvE at the last minute. Maybe with this downtime they can add the PvE but that would be a huge task, I don't see how they could have the money for that?
This is a good decision and hopefully the game does a comeback ala FFXIV.
I also don't think they should tack on PvE. It will be done badly because the foundation is PvP.
With sufficient time and resources, they could do it, even though built as PvP. But it is highly unlikely they will be able to lavish so much time and money, so it would be bare bones gaming, which sits ill with the core game.
The core issue with the game: It was marketed as a pvp/rvr/gvg game but the implementation of pvp was terrible, far worse than existing competitors. People like myself should have been the core market for the game - I thought it was trash and I couldn't even give away the free passes for it.
the games original focus was "end game." world of warcraft fanboys will literally brag about "end game content" with each expansion but forgetting that an mmo should "never end".... there should always be more content. but i remember the news saying that crowfall was for people who hate leveling up. who just want to play "end game content" and low and behold, the game was an absolute failure. turns out end game content isn't everything. and making a game with that mentality resulted in no one playing it. that and everyone just keeps playing wow. honestly you can't create a succesful game by copying wow. you have to be vastly different. otherwise no one will play those games because "wow already perfected it" which is why im excited for ashes of creation. its different. vastly different. which means it should be fun and exciting. of course you get those crybabies screaming "no one wants open world pvp" but if that's true, they want a wow clone. full stop.
People said I was bitter and/or crazy when I mentioned that the original developers sounded EXACTLY like every other vaporware developer with their hype-driven approach to fundraising. I knew they didn't have the expertise to pull this game off from a technical standpoint, and that's exactly how it turned out, just as it did with all those other studios that had big ideas and no know-how.
I'm at a loss as to why games don't have PvP and PvE servers. Like, why not build that into the server configuration file from the start?
Something something "don't want to divide up the player base" something, something.
Yet it gets divided up almost every time, into a smaller number of PVPers willing to play the game and multitude of PVEers who likely won't ever try it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People said I was bitter and/or crazy when I mentioned that the original developers sounded EXACTLY like every other vaporware developer with their hype-driven approach to fundraising. I knew they didn't have the expertise to pull this game off from a technical standpoint, and that's exactly how it turned out, just as it did with all those other studios that had big ideas and no know-how.
This is not vaporware. I wish people would use that term correctly. There was a product, people played it, it does exists. It just sucks. Vaporware is a product that is just a thought but never happens. Also, this game was not like every other game, its a very unique bit of garbage.
I'm at a loss as to why games don't have PvP and PvE servers. Like, why not build that into the server configuration file from the start?
It probably has to do with 1, what type of game they really want to build and 2, whether or not they want to support two different games.
Players on a pve server are going to want a robust pve experience. Same with pvp.
You're not wrong - but that leads me to wonder:
Developer: "We're going to build a half-arsed PvE experience because our players aren't really here for that."
Me: "Then why are you building a PvE experience at all?"
It is amazing to me that so many PvE players won't get anywhere near a PvP title, and yet somehow, the developers think PvP players love the forced PvE. This makes me wonder if the current state of MMORPGs is fail mode because players no longer need to endure this messed up design philosophy. In the modern era the PvP crowd and PvE crowd don't have to put up with each other's nonsense to get to the good bits. Now you just buy a title that gets you there right out of the gate. Maybe survival/builder games are big because they identified a market and get the players into the end game (whole game) right out of the gate?
I'm at a loss as to why games don't have PvP and PvE servers. Like, why not build that into the server configuration file from the start?
It probably has to do with 1, what type of game they really want to build and 2, whether or not they want to support two different games.
Players on a pve server are going to want a robust pve experience. Same with pvp.
You're not wrong - but that leads me to wonder:
Developer: "We're going to build a half-arsed PvE experience because our players aren't really here for that."
Me: "Then why are you building a PvE experience at all?"
It is amazing to me that so many PvE players won't get anywhere near a PvP title, and yet somehow, the developers think PvP players love the forced PvE. This makes me wonder if the current state of MMORPGs is fail mode because players no longer need to endure this messed up design philosophy. In the modern era the PvP crowd and PvE crowd don't have to put up with each other's nonsense to get to the good bits. Now you just buy a title that gets you there right out of the gate. Maybe survival/builder games are big because they identified a market and get the players into the end game (whole game) right out of the gate?
Here is the thing. Developers keep trying to reimagine one of the best PvP games of all time. Dark Age of Camelot. It had a huge PvP and PvE following. The PvP area was meaningful PvP not just a place to FFA gank people and you could PvE there as well. What these developers keep missing is this was a very large Battleground that people entered to willingly PvP/PvE. There was also a whole PvE area that when people didnt want to PvP, could chill and do raids, dungeon runs and everything else PvEers love to do. You need both elements.
If I want pulse pounding PvP I can load up a pure PvP title. If I want PvE I can switch over to a PvE title.
I wonder if the "PvE/PvP" models are chasing the impossible dream.
What I'm talking about isn't something as simple as a PvP switch.
They have a PvP switch in New World - which you think would fix the problem - but it didn't because to placate the PvP crowd they combined auction houses/banks/etc. so people wouldn't have to travel. That crushed any hope to be a merchant (for me), and even if you disagree with that, just read it as an example of removing a PvE element for the sake of PvP.
Maybe the 2005 model isn't really what works anymore.
If I want pulse pounding PvP I can load up a pure PvP title. If I want PvE I can switch over to a PvE title.
I wonder if the "PvE/PvP" models are chasing the impossible dream.
What I'm talking about isn't something as simple as a PvP switch.
They have a PvP switch in New World - which you think would fix the problem - but it didn't because to placate the PvP crowd they combined auction houses/banks/etc. so people wouldn't have to travel. That crushed any hope to be a merchant (for me), and even if you disagree with that, just read it as an example of removing a PvE element for the sake of PvP.
Maybe the 2005 model isn't really what works anymore.
Unless you played it, you would not get it. Its a very unique game that is they had kept updating the engine and the game much like WoW did. I am sure would still be the most played PvP game of all time. ESO was the closest to pulling it off and so many DAoC gamers are still playing ESO waiting for someone to do it right. Also you say play a PvP game and a PvE game to get the fix you want. Why would you have too, when one game can give you both fixes. I personally dont feel like subbing to 2 MMOs. I play one at a time.
If I want pulse pounding PvP I can load up a pure PvP title. If I want PvE I can switch over to a PvE title.
I wonder if the "PvE/PvP" models are chasing the impossible dream.
What I'm talking about isn't something as simple as a PvP switch.
They have a PvP switch in New World - which you think would fix the problem - but it didn't because to placate the PvP crowd they combined auction houses/banks/etc. so people wouldn't have to travel. That crushed any hope to be a merchant (for me), and even if you disagree with that, just read it as an example of removing a PvE element for the sake of PvP.
Maybe the 2005 model isn't really what works anymore.
Unless you played it, you would not get it. Its a very unique game that is they had kept updating the engine and the game much like WoW did. I am sure would still be the most played PvP game of all time. ESO was the closest to pulling it off and so many DAoC gamers are still playing ESO waiting for someone to do it right. Also you say play a PvP game and a PvE game to get the fix you want. Why would you have too, when one game can give you both fixes. I personally dont feel like subbing to 2 MMOs. I play one at a time.
I played DaOC. I even bought Fractured Online.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just ignorantly talking about it out loud.
I feel like mixing PvP and PvE creates a tension in the community.
For example using DaOC:
If you put powerful ores/weapons/etc out in the PvP area the PvE crowd is going to complain about accessibility; however, if the same rewards are in the PvE area the PvP crowd will wonder why they should PvP (they always want special rewards).
^-- just an example
I'll take the unpopular position that Ashes of Creation will be a bust because of this dynamic.
If I want pulse pounding PvP I can load up a pure PvP title. If I want PvE I can switch over to a PvE title.
I wonder if the "PvE/PvP" models are chasing the impossible dream.
What I'm talking about isn't something as simple as a PvP switch.
They have a PvP switch in New World - which you think would fix the problem - but it didn't because to placate the PvP crowd they combined auction houses/banks/etc. so people wouldn't have to travel. That crushed any hope to be a merchant (for me), and even if you disagree with that, just read it as an example of removing a PvE element for the sake of PvP.
Maybe the 2005 model isn't really what works anymore.
Unless you played it, you would not get it. Its a very unique game that is they had kept updating the engine and the game much like WoW did. I am sure would still be the most played PvP game of all time. ESO was the closest to pulling it off and so many DAoC gamers are still playing ESO waiting for someone to do it right. Also you say play a PvP game and a PvE game to get the fix you want. Why would you have too, when one game can give you both fixes. I personally dont feel like subbing to 2 MMOs. I play one at a time.
I played DaOC. I even bought Fractured Online.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just ignorantly talking about it out loud.
I feel like mixing PvP and PvE creates a tension in the community.
For example using DaOC:
If you put powerful ores/weapons/etc out in the PvP area the PvE crowd is going to complain about accessibility; however, if the same rewards are in the PvE area the PvP crowd will wonder why they should PvP (they always want special rewards).
^-- just an example
I'll take the unpopular position that Ashes of Creation will be a bust because of this dynamic.
Same type of cry babies in every game. If we stopped making games cry babies will play. We will have no games left.
Players want the parts of the game that they enjoy to give the best rewards, not the parts that they dislike. That applies to both PVP and PVE players. It also applies to both crafters and combat-only players. And also to both raiders and soloers. And plenty of other splits.
Comments
The popular PVP games out there have made it so that people can jump in and play whenever. You don't have to pick a particular time of day or get into a particular guild to play League of Legends or Fortnite. If Crowfall can't figure out how to make a game that people can just jump in and play and be effective, then the game is never going anywhere.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
sadly my interest already died with it without even getting to play it. i do wish them luck if they do ever get to revive this game or at least move onto another project
I also don't think they should tack on PvE. It will be done badly because the foundation is PvP.
It was marketed as a pvp/rvr/gvg game but the implementation of pvp was terrible, far worse than existing competitors. People like myself should have been the core market for the game - I thought it was trash and I couldn't even give away the free passes for it.
Like, why not build that into the server configuration file from the start?
Yet it gets divided up almost every time, into a smaller number of PVPers willing to play the game and multitude of PVEers who likely won't ever try it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Players on a pve server are going to want a robust pve experience. Same with pvp.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Developer: "We're going to build a half-arsed PvE experience because our players aren't really here for that."
Me: "Then why are you building a PvE experience at all?"
It is amazing to me that so many PvE players won't get anywhere near a PvP title, and yet somehow, the developers think PvP players love the forced PvE. This makes me wonder if the current state of MMORPGs is fail mode because players no longer need to endure this messed up design philosophy.
In the modern era the PvP crowd and PvE crowd don't have to put up with each other's nonsense to get to the good bits. Now you just buy a title that gets you there right out of the gate.
Maybe survival/builder games are big because they identified a market and get the players into the end game (whole game) right out of the gate?
If I want pulse pounding PvP I can load up a pure PvP title.
If I want PvE I can switch over to a PvE title.
I wonder if the "PvE/PvP" models are chasing the impossible dream.
What I'm talking about isn't something as simple as a PvP switch.
They have a PvP switch in New World - which you think would fix the problem - but it didn't because to placate the PvP crowd they combined auction houses/banks/etc. so people wouldn't have to travel. That crushed any hope to be a merchant (for me), and even if you disagree with that, just read it as an example of removing a PvE element for the sake of PvP.
Maybe the 2005 model isn't really what works anymore.
I even bought Fractured Online.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just ignorantly talking about it out loud.
I feel like mixing PvP and PvE creates a tension in the community.
For example using DaOC:
If you put powerful ores/weapons/etc out in the PvP area the PvE crowd is going to complain about accessibility; however, if the same rewards are in the PvE area the PvP crowd will wonder why they should PvP (they always want special rewards).
^-- just an example
I'll take the unpopular position that Ashes of Creation will be a bust because of this dynamic.