I'm amazed that they took to social media to announce 'They won', when the 'they' in question was 14 people working for the same company. Work at home? Why do 14 people in a company need a union's protection, anyway?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would legitimately just make one big QA team for the overall company and outsource it to an offshore location.
I know that's not a popular opinion around these parts... but it is what it is.
So you're wishing that a group of low-paid peons lose their job and this is what you would do if you were calling the shots?
WTF is wrong with you? Dick doesn't even begin to cover it.
Wishing? No. I would wish that they had not gone and started this with a short sighted vote.
But if I were calling the shots, I would need to look at the larger picture. I can let individual work groups decide to unionize, and put my whole company at risk of a chaotic mess. Or I can save stress, save money and keep quality the same.
We are talking about game testers. A job that millions around the world would be able to do with a minimum amount of training. This is not an issue where we are talking about mine workers and safety. Or Airline Pilots. Or some critical function. We aren't even talking about highly specialized folks like MLB players that can command million dollar salaries. We are talking about someone that tests video games.
I put this vote in the same category as the similar shortsighted vote to unionize fast food workers. All that is doing is accelerating the move to robots and automation. Or those Starbucks locations that unionized and then were closed. Starbucks is a pretty liberal company, but even they can see the jeopardy those locations put the company in.
So yeah. Part of my job in real life is to determine where we should have our facilities. And that involves needing to close and move some which affect hundreds of people at a time. It also involves developing and deploying robotic solutions and automation. Right now those just supplement our headcount, but eventually they will out number workers.
Sometimes you have to look at the remaining 10,000 employees and realize that while it sucks, you have to hurt a few hundred to keep the company competitive and the others employed. Especially when that smaller group brought it on themselves.
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm amazed that they took to social media to announce 'They won', when the 'they' in question was 14 people working for the same company. Work at home? Why do 14 people in a company need a union's protection, anyway?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would legitimately just make one big QA team for the overall company and outsource it to an offshore location.
I know that's not a popular opinion around these parts... but it is what it is.
So you're wishing that a group of low-paid peons lose their job and this is what you would do if you were calling the shots?
WTF is wrong with you? Dick doesn't even begin to cover it.
Wishing? No. I would wish that they had not gone and started this with a short sighted vote.
But if I were calling the shots, I would need to look at the larger picture. I can let individual work groups decide to unionize, and put my whole company at risk of a chaotic mess. Or I can save stress, save money and keep quality the same.
We are talking about game testers. A job that millions around the world would be able to do with a minimum amount of training. This is not an issue where we are talking about mine workers and safety. Or Airline Pilots. Or some critical function. We aren't even talking about highly specialized folks like MLB players that can command million dollar salaries. We are talking about someone that tests video games.
I put this vote in the same category as the similar shortsighted vote to unionize fast food workers. All that is doing is accelerating the move to robots and automation. Or those Starbucks locations that unionized and then were closed. Starbucks is a pretty liberal company, but even they can see the jeopardy those locations put the company in.
So yeah. Part of my job in real life is to determine where we should have our facilities. And that involves needing to close and move some which affect hundreds of people at a time. It also involves developing and deploying robotic solutions and automation. Right now those just supplement our headcount, but eventually they will out number workers.
Sometimes you have to look at the remaining 10,000 employees and realize that while it sucks, you have to hurt a few hundred to keep the company competitive and the others employed. Especially when that smaller group brought it on themselves.
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
LMAO...
"Trojan horse"... "kowtow"... yeah... you're a corporate fanboi alright.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm amazed that they took to social media to announce 'They won', when the 'they' in question was 14 people working for the same company. Work at home? Why do 14 people in a company need a union's protection, anyway?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would legitimately just make one big QA team for the overall company and outsource it to an offshore location.
I know that's not a popular opinion around these parts... but it is what it is.
So you're wishing that a group of low-paid peons lose their job and this is what you would do if you were calling the shots?
WTF is wrong with you? Dick doesn't even begin to cover it.
Wishing? No. I would wish that they had not gone and started this with a short sighted vote.
But if I were calling the shots, I would need to look at the larger picture. I can let individual work groups decide to unionize, and put my whole company at risk of a chaotic mess. Or I can save stress, save money and keep quality the same.
We are talking about game testers. A job that millions around the world would be able to do with a minimum amount of training. This is not an issue where we are talking about mine workers and safety. Or Airline Pilots. Or some critical function. We aren't even talking about highly specialized folks like MLB players that can command million dollar salaries. We are talking about someone that tests video games.
I put this vote in the same category as the similar shortsighted vote to unionize fast food workers. All that is doing is accelerating the move to robots and automation. Or those Starbucks locations that unionized and then were closed. Starbucks is a pretty liberal company, but even they can see the jeopardy those locations put the company in.
So yeah. Part of my job in real life is to determine where we should have our facilities. And that involves needing to close and move some which affect hundreds of people at a time. It also involves developing and deploying robotic solutions and automation. Right now those just supplement our headcount, but eventually they will out number workers.
Sometimes you have to look at the remaining 10,000 employees and realize that while it sucks, you have to hurt a few hundred to keep the company competitive and the others employed. Especially when that smaller group brought it on themselves.
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
LMAO...
"Trojan horse"... "kowtow"... yeah... you're a corporate fanboi alright.
Sure Dude. Sure
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
One problem with stories like this is that your opinion is likely to be heavily colored by what you thought of labor unions before this story existed, and far less by the particular details here. It is not the case that unions are always good, nor that they're always bad.
The best possible situation for unions is when a company and set of employees need each other and neither is replaceable. For simplicity, let's suppose that employee compensation and working conditions are purely about money. When both sides need the other, there can be a wide range of values where if one side could make a take it or leave it ultimatum, it the optimal response from the other side is to accept it. Negotiating salary in that situation is a mess, and collective bargaining at least allows for it to proceed in an orderly fashion and everyone to have a colorable case that they got a fair deal.
For example, very few NFL players could make half their current salary at any other job. If the owners were able to force cutting salaries by half, most players would keep playing. Meanwhile, if the players could force increasing salaries by 20%, then at least in the short term, the best option for owners would be to pay it rather than shutting down the league.
Another example is the big factory in a small town. If one employer hires a majority of the working adults in a town, then neither the employer nor the employees have many options. A worker who doesn't want to work for the big factory is likely looking at moving out of town. Meanwhile, if the factory were to fire everyone and try to replace them, it's impractical.
The worst possible situation for unions is when you have a market that is highly competitive, with both the employers and employees easily replaceable. Employers can't really mistreat employees who have the protection of being able to easily quit and go work elsewhere. Meanwhile, employees can't really demand higher compensation if they could be easily fired and replaced. In that case, a union really doesn't have anything to offer other than rent seeking.
I don't know how hard it is for QA employees to switch jobs, but I'm guessing that it leans toward the "easy" side. They probably don't need particularly rare skills, and it probably doesn't take that long for a new employee to get up to speed. If that's the case, then unionization isn't likely to end well for them as a group.
Of course, even if it ends badly for the group, it might still work out for individuals. If you were going to quit your job and move on in a year anyway, why do you care if the entire office gets shut down in two years? Higher wages for the year before you quit can be a net benefit to you.
You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
Sometimes economic reality is what it is. If you're paying local employees too much (as compared to much cheaper alternatives that are just as good) and don't outsource their jobs, then your competitors will. That will save them money allowing them to undercut your prices and drive you out of business. And then all of your employees get laid off, not just the ones that would have been replaced by outsourcing.
That's not always the case, of course. Sometimes outsourcing ends badly, as the job gets outsourced to cheaper employees who can't do it right, and then the company suffers. But sometimes outsourcing is essential just as a market reality.
Let's always remember that costs of doing business will inevitably be passed on to customers one way or another. Money saved by outsourcing eventually gets passed on to customers in the form of lower prices.
You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
Sometimes economic reality is what it is. If you're paying local employees too much (as compared to much cheaper alternatives that are just as good) and don't outsource their jobs, then your competitors will. That will save them money allowing them to undercut your prices and drive you out of business. And then all of your employees get laid off, not just the ones that would have been replaced by outsourcing.
That's not always the case, of course. Sometimes outsourcing ends badly, as the job gets outsourced to cheaper employees who can't do it right, and then the company suffers. But sometimes outsourcing is essential just as a market reality.
Let's always remember that costs of doing business will inevitably be passed on to customers one way or another. Money saved by outsourcing eventually gets passed on to customers in the form of lower prices.
Yup. Unions have a role. Like I said. I do not see it for 14 people with low skilled positions that do not produce any physical product. It's just reality. Does it sound heartless to those that do not think it through to the end? Absolutely. But sometimes you just need to take the bigger picture into account and IMHO this is one of those times.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm amazed that they took to social media to announce 'They won', when the 'they' in question was 14 people working for the same company. Work at home? Why do 14 people in a company need a union's protection, anyway?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would legitimately just make one big QA team for the overall company and outsource it to an offshore location.
I know that's not a popular opinion around these parts... but it is what it is.
So you're wishing that a group of low-paid peons lose their job and this is what you would do if you were calling the shots?
WTF is wrong with you? Dick doesn't even begin to cover it.
Wishing? No. I would wish that they had not gone and started this with a short sighted vote.
But if I were calling the shots, I would need to look at the larger picture. I can let individual work groups decide to unionize, and put my whole company at risk of a chaotic mess. Or I can save stress, save money and keep quality the same.
We are talking about game testers. A job that millions around the world would be able to do with a minimum amount of training. This is not an issue where we are talking about mine workers and safety. Or Airline Pilots. Or some critical function. We aren't even talking about highly specialized folks like MLB players that can command million dollar salaries. We are talking about someone that tests video games.
I put this vote in the same category as the similar shortsighted vote to unionize fast food workers. All that is doing is accelerating the move to robots and automation. Or those Starbucks locations that unionized and then were closed. Starbucks is a pretty liberal company, but even they can see the jeopardy those locations put the company in.
So yeah. Part of my job in real life is to determine where we should have our facilities. And that involves needing to close and move some which affect hundreds of people at a time. It also involves developing and deploying robotic solutions and automation. Right now those just supplement our headcount, but eventually they will out number workers.
Sometimes you have to look at the remaining 10,000 employees and realize that while it sucks, you have to hurt a few hundred to keep the company competitive and the others employed. Especially when that smaller group brought it on themselves.
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
100% . The union isn't about work rights, it about worker domination of something they never could've created themsleves and forcing that something to bend to their will for political agenda and or ideology. Unions are trash imho.
I'm amazed that they took to social media to announce 'They won', when the 'they' in question was 14 people working for the same company. Work at home? Why do 14 people in a company need a union's protection, anyway?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would legitimately just make one big QA team for the overall company and outsource it to an offshore location.
I know that's not a popular opinion around these parts... but it is what it is.
So you're wishing that a group of low-paid peons lose their job and this is what you would do if you were calling the shots?
WTF is wrong with you? Dick doesn't even begin to cover it.
Wishing? No. I would wish that they had not gone and started this with a short sighted vote.
But if I were calling the shots, I would need to look at the larger picture. I can let individual work groups decide to unionize, and put my whole company at risk of a chaotic mess. Or I can save stress, save money and keep quality the same.
We are talking about game testers. A job that millions around the world would be able to do with a minimum amount of training. This is not an issue where we are talking about mine workers and safety. Or Airline Pilots. Or some critical function. We aren't even talking about highly specialized folks like MLB players that can command million dollar salaries. We are talking about someone that tests video games.
I put this vote in the same category as the similar shortsighted vote to unionize fast food workers. All that is doing is accelerating the move to robots and automation. Or those Starbucks locations that unionized and then were closed. Starbucks is a pretty liberal company, but even they can see the jeopardy those locations put the company in.
So yeah. Part of my job in real life is to determine where we should have our facilities. And that involves needing to close and move some which affect hundreds of people at a time. It also involves developing and deploying robotic solutions and automation. Right now those just supplement our headcount, but eventually they will out number workers.
Sometimes you have to look at the remaining 10,000 employees and realize that while it sucks, you have to hurt a few hundred to keep the company competitive and the others employed. Especially when that smaller group brought it on themselves.
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
Unions are really good for low-skilled workers when you've got enough in an union: As individuals they aren't important enough to be heard, so it's necessary for them to band together.
But an union of 14 low skilled workers is a bit ridiculous. They're too small number to be really important group, so that at the end all the manage to do is to change their status from "unimportant" into "unimportant nuisance"
There's a line between the reality of closing shops and outsourcing to make more profits or just plain bust unions, which is very much a thing, and saying that this is something you, yourself, would do.
Outsourcing the Albany QA is in fact getting rid of jobs that currently American workers are doing in NY and is a sad reality that hurts US workers.
You took the next step by saying that you would do it, in what I assume is your fantasy of being in upper management where those decisions get made.
It's a dick fantasy for lower-echelon workers like you to have. Not only is it anti-worker but it's anti-whatever country you live in to say you would get rid of local jobs and outsource them to some 3rd world sweat shop.
Yes, it happens and it's a dick move by the corporate big shots that do it but when a worker says they would do it that's beyond pathetic.
You sound angry.
Sorry (not really) but these folks brought it on themselves by trying to unionize a job that needs practically no skill set.
IMHO It's a bigger dick fantasy to think that companies should just kowtow to a group of 14 unskilled employees that want to unionize. And before preaching about American workers and low wage sweatshops please check your pockets for cell phones and actually check the label on your clothes. Odds are they were all made elsewhere. Odds are they were made in "sweatshops". But some thrive in a world of hypocrisy where they can virtue -signal on message boards while living in a fantasyland.
You still drinking Starbucks? Asking for a friend.
But you do you.
You're still promoting the corporate agenda and outsourcing as something you want to do?
Dicks do the outsourcing-- that's the reality. But unlike most of us who deal with that reality and make the best of what we can with it, you actually want to promote being a dick and aspire to be one.
Yeah, you do you.
I'll take that as confirmation that you do not back up your words by shopping American and that you support companies that close Union shops.
It's easy to talk on message boards. I'd have more respect for someone who responded that they ditched their Iphone and quit drinking Starbucks and only wore clothes made in the USA.
Edit to add- As I said in my post. I expect it to be attacked by virtue signaling folks. It's OK. I'm a big boy. I've been called far worse than a dick Sometimes I earned it.
Give me a fucking break. You clearly said that you would bust unions by outsourcing.
You are just promoting your anti-union political agenda as you always do in these types of topics.
I'd rather virtue signal than creep signal as you did.
Sure. Notice you did not dispute a single thing I said. Virtue Signaling at it's best.
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
Unions are really good for low-skilled workers when you've got enough in an union: As individuals they aren't important enough to be heard, so it's necessary for them to band together.
But an union of 14 low skilled workers is a bit ridiculous. They're too small number to be really important group, so that at the end all the manage to do is to change their status from "unimportant" into "unimportant nuisance"
Unionized low skill workers will eventually just result in the job being moved, phased out, or automated. Short term gain? Sure.. but in this day and age all that does is move your job up the list of attention for reductions.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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For what it's worth, it's 18 workers, not 14. Four of them didn't vote in the unionization election.
MMORPG.com should have picked up on that, 14-0 without mentioning the 4 abstentions makes the article look one sided. Does it drastically change the overall picture, no; but if you want to remain as impartial as possible that's the sort of fact you make a point of keeping in.
Unionized low skill workers will eventually just result in the job being moved, phased out, or automated. Short term gain? Sure.. but in this day and age all that does is move your job up the list of attention for reductions.
I'm inclined to agree on this one if they can phase it out or automate it and it saves them more money they will do it.
The game testers at this site also make an average of $20.19 an hour or about $42k/yr In India a new game tester can make around $6.5k/yr
This isn't a physical product like even Fast Food workers provide. And the system is already setup to be distributed between multiple sites. This place has testers for D2, D4 and WoW (just 1 is for WoW, which I found kind of funny). Obviously those games are not mostly developed in Albany.
But that financial case always existed. Now however, you toss in the chaos that comes with having 1 small part of a team unionized and the impact that could have on the other employees at this site and elsewhere.
IMHO its their own fault if they end up losing their jobs. Just like happened at Starbucks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
100% . The union isn't about work rights, it about worker domination of something they never could've created themsleves and forcing that something to bend to their will for political agenda and or ideology. Unions are trash imho.
The sad reality is unions once upon a time protected worker rights in a time when workers had little recourse to legal protection. Now however in a time of multiple labor laws on the books, labor unions have become nothing more than parasitic entities that only exist for said union's self interests. And as such have become just another hand in the workers wallet.
That statement is fact, it does not mean I'm pro corp. I'm just a realist. The automation and outsourcing of jobs is very much a reality. Ridiculous stunts like the tiny work force at Albany unionizing will just hasten the progress of their jobs being phased out, and solve absolutely nothing for the gaming work force.
For what it's worth, it's 18 workers, not 14. Four of them didn't vote in the unionization election.
MMORPG.com should have picked up on that, 14-0 without mentioning the 4 abstentions makes the article look one sided. Does it drastically change the overall picture, no; but if you want to remain as impartial as possible that's the sort of fact you make a point of keeping in.
From the article:
"The NLRB had ruled that the 18 QA workers could hold their unionization vote as a group, yet a filing by Activision Blizzard asked the NLRB to review that decision and delay counting the vote, even to impound any ballots."
Comments
Unions have a place. When worker safety is an issue. When they have some specialized skillset. Those make sense.
Entitled no or low skilled game testers? Yeah, sorry... I wouldn't hesitate to give them the boot. Not going to allow that trojan horse into my company to affect the rest of it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Trojan horse"... "kowtow"... yeah... you're a corporate fanboi alright.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The best possible situation for unions is when a company and set of employees need each other and neither is replaceable. For simplicity, let's suppose that employee compensation and working conditions are purely about money. When both sides need the other, there can be a wide range of values where if one side could make a take it or leave it ultimatum, it the optimal response from the other side is to accept it. Negotiating salary in that situation is a mess, and collective bargaining at least allows for it to proceed in an orderly fashion and everyone to have a colorable case that they got a fair deal.
For example, very few NFL players could make half their current salary at any other job. If the owners were able to force cutting salaries by half, most players would keep playing. Meanwhile, if the players could force increasing salaries by 20%, then at least in the short term, the best option for owners would be to pay it rather than shutting down the league.
Another example is the big factory in a small town. If one employer hires a majority of the working adults in a town, then neither the employer nor the employees have many options. A worker who doesn't want to work for the big factory is likely looking at moving out of town. Meanwhile, if the factory were to fire everyone and try to replace them, it's impractical.
The worst possible situation for unions is when you have a market that is highly competitive, with both the employers and employees easily replaceable. Employers can't really mistreat employees who have the protection of being able to easily quit and go work elsewhere. Meanwhile, employees can't really demand higher compensation if they could be easily fired and replaced. In that case, a union really doesn't have anything to offer other than rent seeking.
I don't know how hard it is for QA employees to switch jobs, but I'm guessing that it leans toward the "easy" side. They probably don't need particularly rare skills, and it probably doesn't take that long for a new employee to get up to speed. If that's the case, then unionization isn't likely to end well for them as a group.
Of course, even if it ends badly for the group, it might still work out for individuals. If you were going to quit your job and move on in a year anyway, why do you care if the entire office gets shut down in two years? Higher wages for the year before you quit can be a net benefit to you.
That's not always the case, of course. Sometimes outsourcing ends badly, as the job gets outsourced to cheaper employees who can't do it right, and then the company suffers. But sometimes outsourcing is essential just as a market reality.
Let's always remember that costs of doing business will inevitably be passed on to customers one way or another. Money saved by outsourcing eventually gets passed on to customers in the form of lower prices.
I do not see it for 14 people with low skilled positions that do not produce any physical product. It's just reality.
Does it sound heartless to those that do not think it through to the end? Absolutely. But sometimes you just need to take the bigger picture into account and IMHO this is one of those times.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
100% . The union isn't about work rights, it about worker domination of something they never could've created themsleves and forcing that something to bend to their will for political agenda and or ideology. Unions are trash imho.
But an union of 14 low skilled workers is a bit ridiculous. They're too small number to be really important group, so that at the end all the manage to do is to change their status from "unimportant" into "unimportant nuisance"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
In India a new game tester can make around $6.5k/yr
This isn't a physical product like even Fast Food workers provide. And the system is already setup to be distributed between multiple sites. This place has testers for D2, D4 and WoW (just 1 is for WoW, which I found kind of funny). Obviously those games are not mostly developed in Albany.
But that financial case always existed. Now however, you toss in the chaos that comes with having 1 small part of a team unionized and the impact that could have on the other employees at this site and elsewhere.
IMHO its their own fault if they end up losing their jobs. Just like happened at Starbucks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"The NLRB had ruled that the 18 QA workers could hold their unionization vote as a group, yet a filing by Activision Blizzard asked the NLRB to review that decision and delay counting the vote, even to impound any ballots."