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Amateur Analysis: The Genre Is In Trouble!

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  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    You folks do realize "Marketing" is a university major, right?

    Sometime I wonder at the nativity here on this site.

    Yes, companies advertise their products, to all ages of consumers, to influence customer's purchasing decisions and it's normal for them to do so.


    Is there some nativity here? Is it Christmas already? My how time flies.

    :)

    Speaking of marketing... it comes in many varieties of taste and appropriateness and some things can't even be advertised legally. Also, some places are appropriate for some ads and some aren't.

    I'm willing to bet that you'd be one of the first to complain if this billboard goes up across the street from your grandkid's school:



    You can pick up your mike now.


    Ahh, but the grey areas are interesting, quite a row where I live over billboard placements which say "It's OK to say Gay", advertise medical marijuana sales locations, or even quote religious slogans by unpopular religious groups.

    The sign above is actually regulated by several different areas of the law which cover not only billboards but also advertising and placement of adult entertainment facilities.
    Tfw you realize the people in charge are all incredibly bigoted idiots.
    Kyleran
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    a lawsuit is "something going on." 


    Yes, it is something going on, as I said.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    Well, billboards in this context are about location. So yes, new laws have been written about that. 

    Of course new laws were written. My point was in regard to the timing of their writing.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
    You claimed that the sign would have to fall on the kids to do any harm. 
    That's just naive. 
    I'm tired of your incessant twists just to win the arguments. This isn't discussion. 
    Slapshot1188

    Once upon a time....

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
    You claimed that the sign would have to fall on the kids to do any harm. 
    That's just naive. 
    I'm tired of your incessant twists just to win the arguments. This isn't discussion. 

    Demonstrate how it would harm children otherwise.

    It pictures two women wearing more than is commonly done at the beach. People take their children to the beach regularly. If what they see at the beach isn't considered harmful than nothing shown on that sign is.

    I have maintained this point over multiple posts.

    Your fatigue is unfortunate. It can be assuaged by presenting a convincing argument to which I will concede or accepting you cannot.
  • UwakionnaUwakionna Member RarePosts: 1,139
    Kyleran said:
    Uwakionna said:
    Still wanna know what other markets aside from gaming and gambling build their marketing and monetization around things with terms like "fun pain".

    There continues to be very broad strokes being painted in arguments here that avoid making some rather critical distinctions.
    Perhaps the S&M division of the sex trade industry? ;)

    Have to say I had not seen the term fun pain before, but see it's been in use for at least the past 6 or 7 years now.

    As you said it's difficult to think of many other entertainment industries which follow such a model.

    Closest I can think of is the selling of expensive fast passes at amusement parks, sometimes more expensive than the original ticket prices.

    I mean, the parks could just limit the number of guests permitted to enter to keep lines shorter rather than sell premium access.

    Yeah...no.
    This is rather the thing. There's few if any other industry that so bluntly is focused around extended psychological manipulation of consumers. Not just in marketing but in the continued engagement with their product. You have to skip into drugs to see more of this kind of thing, which is heavily regulated for a reason.

    A lot of what keeps happening in this thread seems to cycle around aversion of these elements of the subject. The back and forth on this page alone is demonstrative of that.

    It brings up a separate curiosity and concern. Even if one is dismissive of the concerns, what is this line where they become defensive of them? What is the benefit of arguing in favor of exploitative business models?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited March 2023
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
    You claimed that the sign would have to fall on the kids to do any harm. 
    That's just naive. 
    I'm tired of your incessant twists just to win the arguments. This isn't discussion. 

    Demonstrate how it would harm children otherwise.

    It pictures two women wearing more than is commonly done at the beach. People take their children to the beach regularly. If what they see at the beach isn't considered harmful than nothing shown on that sign is.

    I have maintained this point over multiple posts.

    Your fatigue is unfortunate. It can be assuaged by presenting a convincing argument to which I will concede or accepting you cannot.
    You're totally missing the point lol.

    It has nothing to do with what the women are wearing. It's an ad for a brothel.

    Which by the way. it's not even remotely a made-up scenario:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/billboard-advertising-nevada-bunny-ranch-leaves-east-bay-parents-concerned-sex-brothel-moonlite-bunny-ranch-bar-cigar-dennis-hof-prostitution/
    The sign is located less than a mile away from a child development center even took Oakland city councilman Noel Gallo by surprise.
    "Having a billboard promoting certain activities out of town, it's not acceptable," he said.
    Parents were upset by the billboard as well.
    "I think it's just inappropriate. It's a neighborhood with schools and homes and families, and I don't know who they're advertising to, but it's not something that kids should be exposed to," concerned parent Kala Renz said.

    Also., does this sound familiar to you?

    But, the Nevada brothel's owner defended the advertisement, saying parents should keep an eye on their children, and not his sign.
    "Mom and dad should be watching those kids because if they kept them off my website, they wouldn't know what the Bunny Ranch was," Ranch owner Dennis Hof said.
    So apparently pimps agree with your lame arguments that it's ALL about parental responsibility.

    :)
    cheyane
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    Iselin said:
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
    You claimed that the sign would have to fall on the kids to do any harm. 
    That's just naive. 
    I'm tired of your incessant twists just to win the arguments. This isn't discussion. 

    Demonstrate how it would harm children otherwise.

    It pictures two women wearing more than is commonly done at the beach. People take their children to the beach regularly. If what they see at the beach isn't considered harmful than nothing shown on that sign is.

    I have maintained this point over multiple posts.

    Your fatigue is unfortunate. It can be assuaged by presenting a convincing argument to which I will concede or accepting you cannot.
    You're totally missing the point lol.

    It has nothing to do with what the women are wearing. It's an ad for a brothel.

    Which by the way. it's not even remotely a made-up scenario:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/billboard-advertising-nevada-bunny-ranch-leaves-east-bay-parents-concerned-sex-brothel-moonlite-bunny-ranch-bar-cigar-dennis-hof-prostitution/
    The sign is located less than a mile away from a child development center even took Oakland city councilman Noel Gallo by surprise.
    "Having a billboard promoting certain activities out of town, it's not acceptable," he said.
    Parents were upset by the billboard as well.
    "I think it's just inappropriate. It's a neighborhood with schools and homes and families, and I don't know who they're advertising to, but it's not something that kids should be exposed to," concerned parent Kala Renz said.

    Also., does this sound familiar to you?

    But, the Nevada brothel's owner defended the advertisement, saying parents should keep an eye on their children, and not his sign.
    "Mom and dad should be watching those kids because if they kept them off my website, they wouldn't know what the Bunny Ranch was," Ranch owner Dennis Hof said.
    So apparently pimps agree with your lame arguments that it's ALL about parental responsibility.

    :)
    I'm not missing the point.

    That it is an ad for a brothel wouldn't be something children would notice, and the concept of a brothel isn't something they would comprehend.

    As such, it isn't problematic for the children as the image itself isn't harmful and they  are shielded by their blissful ignorance from knowledge beyond... or should be.

    The website itself may well be problematic, but that would be age restricted and parents should be monitoring and when necessary controlling what their children are exposed to online overall regardless.

    I see the article doesn't provide the outcome of the request for removal of the billboard. That a request was made suggests the removal could not be forced which in turn suggests the placement of the ad wasn't in violation of whatever regulations applied at the time. Certainly the ad company didn't feel it did, or they would not have so placed it to begin with and instead suggested another site.

    I never claimed anything was ALL about parental responsibility. It is rather impossible for anyone to agree with an argument I never made. Perhaps you should read back and correctly identify my position. Possibly you will then be able to make more effective arguments in response.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    Iselin said:
    That sounds pretty naive to me. No offense meant, just an opinion from someone (me) who's been naive himself at times. 

    What's naive about it? The chance of a child being injured by a drunk driver if a bar was near is school is far greater than being so by a billboard sign behind a fence.
    You claimed that the sign would have to fall on the kids to do any harm. 
    That's just naive. 
    I'm tired of your incessant twists just to win the arguments. This isn't discussion. 

    Demonstrate how it would harm children otherwise.

    It pictures two women wearing more than is commonly done at the beach. People take their children to the beach regularly. If what they see at the beach isn't considered harmful than nothing shown on that sign is.

    I have maintained this point over multiple posts.

    Your fatigue is unfortunate. It can be assuaged by presenting a convincing argument to which I will concede or accepting you cannot.
    You're totally missing the point lol.

    It has nothing to do with what the women are wearing. It's an ad for a brothel.

    Which by the way. it's not even remotely a made-up scenario:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/billboard-advertising-nevada-bunny-ranch-leaves-east-bay-parents-concerned-sex-brothel-moonlite-bunny-ranch-bar-cigar-dennis-hof-prostitution/
    The sign is located less than a mile away from a child development center even took Oakland city councilman Noel Gallo by surprise.
    "Having a billboard promoting certain activities out of town, it's not acceptable," he said.
    Parents were upset by the billboard as well.
    "I think it's just inappropriate. It's a neighborhood with schools and homes and families, and I don't know who they're advertising to, but it's not something that kids should be exposed to," concerned parent Kala Renz said.

    Also., does this sound familiar to you?

    But, the Nevada brothel's owner defended the advertisement, saying parents should keep an eye on their children, and not his sign.
    "Mom and dad should be watching those kids because if they kept them off my website, they wouldn't know what the Bunny Ranch was," Ranch owner Dennis Hof said.
    So apparently pimps agree with your lame arguments that it's ALL about parental responsibility.

    :)
    I'm not missing the point.

    That it is an ad for a brothel wouldn't be something children would notice, and the concept of a brothel isn't something they would comprehend.

    As such, it isn't problematic for the children as the image itself isn't harmful and they  are shielded by their blissful ignorance from knowledge beyond... or should be.

    The website itself may well be problematic, but that would be age restricted and parents should be monitoring and when necessary controlling what their children are exposed to online overall regardless.

    I see the article doesn't provide the outcome of the request for removal of the billboard. That a request was made suggests the removal could not be forced which in turn suggests the placement of the ad wasn't in violation of whatever regulations applied at the time. Certainly the ad company didn't feel it did, or they would not have so placed it to begin with and instead suggested another site.

    I never claimed anything was ALL about parental responsibility. It is rather impossible for anyone to agree with an argument I never made. Perhaps you should read back and correctly identify my position. Possibly you will then be able to make more effective arguments in response.
    Your stance is slimy and simply morally dubious. I won't bother with someone who cannot see things with clarity and turn everything into a circus and try to excuse these immoral and frankly patently horrible inclusion into games. That you manage to justify it because 'no laws' so okay is a morally bankrupt position.
    BrainycheyaneNildenKyleranAmaranthar

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938

    I'm not missing the point.

    That it is an ad for a brothel wouldn't be something children would notice, and the concept of a brothel isn't something they would comprehend.

    As such, it isn't problematic for the children as the image itself isn't harmful and they  are shielded by their blissful ignorance from knowledge beyond... or should be.


    Um, of course they would notice it.

    They might not know what exactly it is but they would certainly notice the women in their strange clothing.

    Is it harmful? Personally I don't think so though I do think it's inappropriate to have in front of a school. If not for the children definitely for the parents.

    I remember being 7 and asking mom and dad what the XXX was in front of the particular movies that had them.
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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Sovrath said:

    I'm not missing the point.

    That it is an ad for a brothel wouldn't be something children would notice, and the concept of a brothel isn't something they would comprehend.

    As such, it isn't problematic for the children as the image itself isn't harmful and they  are shielded by their blissful ignorance from knowledge beyond... or should be.


    Um, of course they would notice it.

    They might not know what exactly it is but they would certainly notice the women in their strange clothing.

    Is it harmful? Personally I don't think so though I do think it's inappropriate to have in front of a school. If not for the children definitely for the parents.

    I remember being 7 and asking mom and dad what the XXX was in front of the particular movies that had them.
    Not only would they notice it all it would take is for one kid to find out what it was and then it would spread like wildfire and every kid at that school would learn what a brothel is and what happens at them because of this sign.

    They would literally be creating the "I found out about the BunnyRanch because there was a sign next to my school" senario.

    Morally bankrupt position sums this up.

    Amaranthar

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    Nilden said:
    Sovrath said:

    I'm not missing the point.

    That it is an ad for a brothel wouldn't be something children would notice, and the concept of a brothel isn't something they would comprehend.

    As such, it isn't problematic for the children as the image itself isn't harmful and they  are shielded by their blissful ignorance from knowledge beyond... or should be.


    Um, of course they would notice it.

    They might not know what exactly it is but they would certainly notice the women in their strange clothing.

    Is it harmful? Personally I don't think so though I do think it's inappropriate to have in front of a school. If not for the children definitely for the parents.

    I remember being 7 and asking mom and dad what the XXX was in front of the particular movies that had them.
    Not only would they notice it all it would take is for one kid to find out what it was and then it would spread like wildfire and every kid at that school would learn what a brothel is and what happens at them because of this sign.

    They would literally be creating the "I found out about the BunnyRanch because there was a sign next to my school" senario.

    Morally bankrupt position sums this up.


    I wouldn't go so far as "morally bankrupt" but definitely irresponsible.
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    edited March 2023
    kitarad said:
    Your stance is slimy and simply morally dubious. I won't bother with someone who cannot see things with clarity and turn everything into a circus and try to excuse these immoral and frankly patently horrible inclusion into games. That you manage to justify it because 'no laws' so okay is a morally bankrupt position.
    I do see things clearly.

    My stance isn't morally anything. What would be the point? Morality in and of itself is impotent unless you are dealing with those moral.

    Are those doing that complained about moral?

    If I manage to justify something it doesn't matter the method. The bottom line is still justification. However, there is nothing here I need justify.
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,055
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    edited March 2023
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?
    For as long as possible, no reason to show them too early what scum most of humanity is.

    Present company excepted of course.

    ;)
    NildenSovrathKnightFalzolepi

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,652
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?
    There are certain behaviors that society has agreed are not behaviors that we want to expose children to or allow them to participate in.  Some of these are alcohol and drugs.  Another is gambling.   All of these have addictive components which can be ripe for abuse.
    Kids are more vulnerable to exposure to these addictive triggers. 

    LootBoxes exploit many of the same addictive triggers that gambling does.

    “there is robust evidence that loot boxes are structurally and psychologically akin to gambling, with associations strongest amongst younger players.” (Close & Lloyd, 2021).
    https://www.begambleaware.org/sites/default/files/2021-03/Gaming_and_Gambling_Report_Final.pdf
    IselinNilden

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?
    You're not asking that seriously, are you?

    "Hey, kids come to the living room quick! Grandma and grampa are having sex."
    NildenSovrathKyleran
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?
    Not only hide it but completely prevent access to some of it. Age restrictions exist for a reason.

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    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    Sovrath said:
    Um, of course they would notice it.

    They might not know what exactly it is but they would certainly notice the women in their strange clothing.

    Is it harmful? Personally I don't think so though I do think it's inappropriate to have in front of a school. If not for the children definitely for the parents.

    I remember being 7 and asking mom and dad what the XXX was in front of the particular movies that had them.

    I said it would not be noticed by children as an ad for a brothel. The women aren't in strange clothing from the perspective of a child, assuming that child has ever been to a beach where they would have seen quite similar attire.

    I could see being right in front of a school problematic, especially as when the children age they will eventually know what the sign is advertising.

    As it happens, the sign in question was not directly in front of a school. That was a bit of dramatic license. Apparently reality wasn't felt quite provocative enough to make the intended impression.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    edited March 2023
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?

    No, but it's up to the adults to teach children in a way that his healthy and that they can understand.

    And it's not up to one group of adults to show children "what adults do" if the children belong to other adults who want to handle it differently. That's life.

    My mother taught me "what adults do" in kindergarten. No lie. Sat me down, gave me the run down on how babies were made, also said adults had sex because it also felt good and gave me all the pertinent details so I had a biological as well as social understanding of sex.

    Didn't mean she allowed us to watch porn or view ALL THE NUDE SCENES in movies, but as I grew up the lessons were able to solidify in a way that seemed to support me as a person.

    Still had to sneak playboys with my friends in high school though. :D
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?

    Some things we do as adults, yes.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    Iselin said:
    olepi said:
    So we should all hide what we do as adults from the children?
    You're not asking that seriously, are you?

    "Hey, kids come to the living room quick! Grandma and grampa are having sex."
    Some things you can never unsee...   :#

    Like the time at age 14 I walked into my parents bedroom to close an open window ....(the door was wide open) 

    Thank God they both were facing away from me in the doggie style position.....

     :s 


    IselinKnightFalzSovrath

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  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    Kids need to be left to be kids while they can. They've been under assault for years from movies, TV, magazines, the internet, etc. They aren't ready for it. It can screw them up, and leave them confused and very unhappy trying to find their way through to clear thought. 
    Suicide rates are very high among kids, drugs are prevalent. There's a lot of problems. 
    Too many lives are ruined because of all of the crap they are force-fed. 


    Once upon a time....

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