At $750 a pop, you're not going to get enough people to even qualify as "testing". And then when they see what they're "testing", the chargebacks will cost you more in the end. Should have shut this amateur project down when McQuaid died. He was an unreliable schmuck but he at least knew people to get stuff done.
Their terms of service say no refunds for any reason. Even if they don't provide a game.
Like Star Citizen, you aren't "buying" anything, you are pledging to the possibility of a game, and you do not get your money back if no game releases.
That's what crowdfunding has always been. Not sure why people think they get their money back if a group uses all the money on development.
I think it’s more a matter of whether people believe fraud was involved. I’ve never asked for a refund of any kickstarter but if I was a paid COE player I’d absolutely be pursuing whatever I could there.
I guess here the case would be as shown above:
If I pledged because the guy in charge literally said “It won’t be years” in 2020… yet it’s 2023… I think there’s a case to be made there. He didn’t say we hope or plan.. he said definitively that it would not take years. When you are raising money you need to be responsible for what you say.
I dunno when it comes to kickstarter estimated delivery dates it's kind of amazing how far off so many of them are. Pantheon was 2017, Star Citizen was 2014, Camelot Unchained was 2015. It's almost like they were all lying to our faces to get money or were so utterly and completely clueless they had no idea it would take 6, 7, 8, 9 or more years longer to make the game... How am I supposed to take anything a company says seriously when they miss an estimated delivery date by years?!
Welcome to the club. It's seems so rather obvious, doesn't it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not to be negative but it won't surprise me at all if they are still not out of pre-alpha at year's end.
End of 2021 Joppa the lead developer hinted his hopes was to see the game in Alpha in 2022. So we will see.
2022 came and went. Not much to see, outcome is determined on that projection, a big BOOOONK try again.
Not completely the case but if thats what you want to think, thats a point of view. Fact is, companies make goals but dont always reach them but that does not mean they wont hit them.
Not to be negative but it won't surprise me at all if they are still not out of pre-alpha at year's end.
End of 2021 Joppa the lead developer hinted his hopes was to see the game in Alpha in 2022. So we will see.
2022 came and went. Not much to see, outcome is determined on that projection, a big BOOOONK try again.
Not completely the case but if thats what you want to think, thats a point of view. Fact is, companies make goals but dont always reach them but that does not mean they wont hit them.
In the absence of any new info, the best predictor of future performance is past performance. Sure there is always a CHANCE that Lucy won't pull the football this time. Right Charlie Brown?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not to be negative but it won't surprise me at all if they are still not out of pre-alpha at year's end.
End of 2021 Joppa the lead developer hinted his hopes was to see the game in Alpha in 2022. So we will see.
2022 came and went. Not much to see, outcome is determined on that projection, a big BOOOONK try again.
Not completely the case but if thats what you want to think, thats a point of view. Fact is, companies make goals but dont always reach them but that does not mean they wont hit them.
In the absence of any new info, the best predictor of future performance is past performance. Sure there is always a CHANCE that Lucy won't pull the football this time. Right Charlie Brown?
Throne and Liberty first development was announced in 1998, its up to VR to make Pantheon a relevant game. I have my doubts but does not mean they cant do it. Also, Charlie Brown did end up kicking that football. It happened.
Not to be negative but it won't surprise me at all if they are still not out of pre-alpha at year's end.
End of 2021 Joppa the lead developer hinted his hopes was to see the game in Alpha in 2022. So we will see.
2022 came and went. Not much to see, outcome is determined on that projection, a big BOOOONK try again.
Not completely the case but if thats what you want to think, thats a point of view. Fact is, companies make goals but dont always reach them but that does not mean they wont hit them.
In the absence of any new info, the best predictor of future performance is past performance. Sure there is always a CHANCE that Lucy won't pull the football this time. Right Charlie Brown?
Throne and Liberty first development was announced in 1998, its up to VR to make Pantheon a relevant game. I have my doubts but does not mean they cant do it. Also, Charlie Brown did end up kicking that football. It happened.
Well.. kind of. Not in the official strip but they did have a marvel crossover around 1980 which was done by the Spiderman comic guy (does have Schultz name attached)
Kind of an alternate universe version... where I think we need to be if we are ever going to get a real Pantheon that hits it's targets.
Lacking that, I'll keep assuming that future performance will be best predicted by past performance.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Developers of long overdue games rarely provide target dates for any significant milestones that players really care about such as the start of the next release phase, how many subphases (point versions) each phase will have, how long each phase likely will last or heaven forbid, the target release date.
At days end I agree, their past performance and honesty (or lack thereof) heavily influences how gamers should view any current status reports or predictions of the game's future.
The odds are still quite long at most of these indie MMORPGS ever delivering a quality game.
It could happen, but probably would trigger the Rapture or something.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I remember one software deal worth $100 million we did. Part of the deal was to provide a new tool that nobody had ever developed before (chip design tool). I thought it was pretty aggressive to claim we could do it.
Turns out, we couldn't, and the customer clawed back $30 million of the sale. The salesperson wasn't doing too good after that and soon left. Marketing hyped it, sales sold it, and it never existed.
I remember one software deal worth $100 million we did. Part of the deal was to provide a new tool that nobody had ever developed before (chip design tool). I thought it was pretty aggressive to claim we could do it.
Turns out, we couldn't, and the customer clawed back $30 million of the sale. The salesperson wasn't doing too good after that and soon left. Marketing hyped it, sales sold it, and it never existed.
We had a $10m custom built piece of automation that was due to be delivered and functional by Nov 1 2022. It was a 2 year project. They delivered but couldn’t hit the target throughput. We gave them 2 months to resolve. They are currently disassembling the machine after refunding the $5m we gave them upfront.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not to be negative but it won't surprise me at all if they are still not out of pre-alpha at year's end.
End of 2021 Joppa the lead developer hinted his hopes was to see the game in Alpha in 2022. So we will see.
2022 came and went. Not much to see, outcome is determined on that projection, a big BOOOONK try again.
Not completely the case but if thats what you want to think, thats a point of view. Fact is, companies make goals but dont always reach them but that does not mean they wont hit them.
Its 100% the case. 2022 is gone, they didnt release Alpha in 2022 then that projection failed. So that outcome has been determined.
Your next prejection of 2023 Alpha is still TBD. Not going to hold my breath. Hmmmm I wonder what technicality they will come up with this time. I would say they are running out of excuses, but history has shown they will always come up with another excuse, no shortage of those.
Well I just watched a couple hours worth of gameplay video and it speaks for itself.
Cohhcarnage streaming Pre-Alpha
Goblin caves
I know it's in "pre-alpha" development and it's all still subject to change so leveling any serious criticisms would be pointless but I really want this to be something I play but found I had to force myself to watch those videos.
This is what they have after nine years.
I hope it vastly improves because I feel like calling that generic, lackluster and bland is being nice.
I wasn't sure some of the people lavishing praise at this watched the same video as I did. After watching those I just sat back and mainly thought... that's it?!?
Hopefully the next video I endure makes me actually want to play this game.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
About why it takes so long, as far as I understand it, for some reason they're constantly moving the goalposts. Originally the game was supposed to have levels, now its a seamless world like Vanguard was. Originally the game was not supposed to have crafting, well surprise they added that. Originally they went for one game engine and what do you know, they picked a different one.
'Lore' is the easiest part of making an
MMORPG. Lore is nothing more than fiction, and you can usually find
much better fiction at a book store. Cheaper, too.
Err nope.
How much work Lore is depends upon the quality of your writers and the quality of writing you're aiming for.
And I have definitely read fantasy books with worse lore than, for example, TES.
In fact one of my all time favorite fantasy books, Conan the barbarian, has a highly fragmented and incomplete lore, if any. Same goes for the story. The author died pretty young, after all.
So after my dive into watching those 2 videos I linked above which are both a month old I went to watch this...
That is from 2016.
I would be seriously surprised if this releases in the next five years. Judging it on those 7 hours of video and what has been accomplished and what is listed on the website that should be in for release.
Does someone else have some greater insights into this? Can you help me put my doubts to rest? I am having some serious WTF are they doing, head in my hands, moments here. How are they showing lore and concept art nine years into this? Still in pre-alpha... I just don't understand how this is so slow. Not even beta yet.
Maybe I should check some patch notes to see what they are doing.. then again those videos say a lot...
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
So after my dive into watching those 2 videos I linked above which are both a month old I went to watch this...
That is from 2016.
I would be seriously surprised if this releases in the next five years. Judging it on those 7 hours of video and what has been accomplished and what is listed on the website that should be in for release.
Does someone else have some greater insights into this? Can you help me put my doubts to rest? I am having some serious WTF are they doing, head in my hands, moments here. How are they showing lore and concept art nine years into this? Still in pre-alpha... I just don't understand how this is so slow. Not even beta yet.
Maybe I should check some patch notes to see what they are doing.. then again those videos say a lot...
I get the game bashing with this one is strong. Perspective. Much like T&L, this game has restarted production from the ground up I think twice, maybe 3 times. This latest iteration is with new tech that will make a better game, if they manage to do so. Frustration for people wanting this type of game, have every reason to be upset... and they dont.
VR was made by a group of developers that had no idea how to run a business. We as gamers kept giving them money when we saw no business plan. Over the years VR has learned how to run a business. Is that too late? Can we blame VR, or do the fans have a bit in this when we just keep chucking money at ideas, not a business with an idea? VR has made allot of headway over the past 1.5 years with these new tools. Question at this point, can they make a relevant game?
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sure there is always a CHANCE that Lucy won't pull the football this time. Right Charlie Brown?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Kind of an alternate universe version... where I think we need to be if we are ever going to get a real Pantheon that hits it's targets.
Lacking that, I'll keep assuming that future performance will be best predicted by past performance.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
At days end I agree, their past performance and honesty (or lack thereof) heavily influences how gamers should view any current status reports or predictions of the game's future.
The odds are still quite long at most of these indie MMORPGS ever delivering a quality game.
It could happen, but probably would trigger the Rapture or something.
Or
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2025: 48 years on the Net.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Your next prejection of 2023 Alpha is still TBD. Not going to hold my breath. Hmmmm I wonder what technicality they will come up with this time. I would say they are running out of excuses, but history has shown they will always come up with another excuse, no shortage of those.
Cohhcarnage streaming Pre-Alpha
Goblin caves
I know it's in "pre-alpha" development and it's all still subject to change so leveling any serious criticisms would be pointless but I really want this to be something I play but found I had to force myself to watch those videos.
This is what they have after nine years.
I hope it vastly improves because I feel like calling that generic, lackluster and bland is being nice.
I wasn't sure some of the people lavishing praise at this watched the same video as I did. After watching those I just sat back and mainly thought... that's it?!?
Hopefully the next video I endure makes me actually want to play this game.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/That is from 2016.
I would be seriously surprised if this releases in the next five years. Judging it on those 7 hours of video and what has been accomplished and what is listed on the website that should be in for release.
Does someone else have some greater insights into this? Can you help me put my doubts to rest? I am having some serious WTF are they doing, head in my hands, moments here. How are they showing lore and concept art nine years into this? Still in pre-alpha... I just don't understand how this is so slow. Not even beta yet.
Maybe I should check some patch notes to see what they are doing.. then again those videos say a lot...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/MMORPG's are a Myth........ prove me wrong! LOL
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
VR was made by a group of developers that had no idea how to run a business. We as gamers kept giving them money when we saw no business plan. Over the years VR has learned how to run a business. Is that too late? Can we blame VR, or do the fans have a bit in this when we just keep chucking money at ideas, not a business with an idea? VR has made allot of headway over the past 1.5 years with these new tools. Question at this point, can they make a relevant game?