Can MMORPGs Be Successful Without Combat? | One Good Roll | MMORPG.com

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Can MMORPGs Be Successful Without Combat? | One Good Roll | MMORPG.com

One question that has been on Steven's mind lately is whether MMORPGs can not only be fun without combat, but actually thrive.

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DigDuggy

Plenty of single-player games are very successful without any combat, so I don't see why an MMO can't be successful.  Everything is in the implementation.  You have many of the simulation-type games (Trains, trucks, fishing.....) that could easily be converted into an MMO game that would be successful if done on a larger scale.  Add the customization element, probably economic competition.  set up 'corporation guild' guild elements....  I think they would be a great success, especially the trains.

I remember city skylines (called something different at the time) when it first came out and a ton of people played it and it had an economic feature.  Sadly, they couldn't get it to work (probably a lack of skilled developers, only a guess though), so they reverted to single-player.

I think it's definitely something that could be a very big hit.  However, let's admit it.  Combat is low-hanging fruit.

foxgirl

Animal Crossing isn't an mmo, but it does have an online feature and a thriving community on sites like tumblr and reddit. So the potential and the market *is* there, it's up to compentent developers to produce it.

gameplayingmonkey

Not specifically MMO-rpg- but games like Habbo Hotel, Club Penguin, Neopets, Animal Jam, etc, were definitely successful and games with a smaller focus or even optional combat like Runescape, Mabinogi, maybe Archeage, are certainly popular as well. Though I think the demographics are pretty different and leaving combat out entirely would alienate the current MMORPG playerbase - thats not to say something like the Stardew Valley fandom wouldn't end up stepping in and taking its place.

ultimateduck

gameplayingmonkey said:

Not specifically MMO-rpg- but games like Habbo Hotel, Club Penguin, Neopets, Animal Jam, etc, were definitely successful and games with a smaller focus or even optional combat like Runescape, Mabinogi, maybe Archeage, are certainly popular as well.


Though I think the demographics are pretty different and leaving combat out entirely would alienate the current MMORPG playerbase - thats not to say something like the Stardew Valley fandom wouldn't end up stepping in and taking its place.

I don't know how much Archeage should be in that list. You are very limited as what you can do outside of combat due to labor running out. Each character is also comprised on three combat focused classes.

lordsmok

simple answer? no

Darkhawke

By the way this site and some of its members are defining , an MMORPG these days , online Solitare and Scrabble clubs are MMOS without combat . Also it would not surprise to hear some here tell us battling the deck in Solitare is now  combat also.

Theocritus

This topic comes up occasionally.....There used to be a game called "Glitch" that had no combat....I really enjoyed it but the studio that made it went bankrupt and they had to shut it down....For a game to survive without combat, it would have to have high quality social aspects that the players find enjoyable.....Believe it or not, there is a world out there where we dont have to kill every living thing...It just hasnt been done well yet.

theGnade

What is success? 100 players? 10000 sales? 1 000 000 players? If NMS is successful game, then yeah not much is needed to be a successful. Also are we talking about MMORPG or MMO? Because every online game can be MMO, but not every MMO is going to be MMORPG. So if we are talking about MMORPG, I have never seen one being successful without combat. Also I have seen ones with combat being failure too.

Scot

Well none of these games are MMORPG's, I would not even call them MMOs, how about SOE Social Experience Online?

This is rather like saying "Can MMORPG's just be about combat"? And then pointing to MOBA's and saying this means it can be done. It's apples and oranges.

But it is still a fair question, in terms of "What sort of online multiplayer games can exist and be successful?" Those that have succeeded tend to centre around building gameplay of some sort. So there is room in the broad church that multiplayer is for all sort of games, but not for MMORPG's without combat, that would be like Minecraft without mining.

Nanfoodle

Palia will have combat and classes. Combat will be 100% optional.

Sovrath

It would just depend on the game. I have no doubt that there is an audience who doesn't care about combat.

I have a friend (well most of my friends but this one in particular) who doesn't play video games. No interest. She went over a friend's house and he had the game Journey. They played together (yes, not an mmorpg but bear with me) and she loved it. She found it beautiful and very touching.

I can see an mmorpg that has unique social experiences and that there is an audience for such things. Not everyone likes or is interested in combat.

gameplayingmonkey

ultimateduck said:

gameplayingmonkey said:

Not specifically MMO-rpg- but games like Habbo Hotel, Club Penguin, Neopets, Animal Jam, etc, were definitely successful and games with a smaller focus or even optional combat like Runescape, Mabinogi, maybe Archeage, are certainly popular as well.





Though I think the demographics are pretty different and leaving combat out entirely would alienate the current MMORPG playerbase - thats not to say something like the Stardew Valley fandom wouldn't end up stepping in and taking its place.

I don't know how much Archeage should be in that list. You are very limited as what you can do outside of combat due to labor running out. Each character is also comprised on three combat focused classes.

Yeah, been quite awhile since I've played Archeage and remembered it having quite a bit of skill type stuff, but couldn't remember if it was viable/if it had a large population of people who only did that.

On another note, a lot of MMORPG's have ROLEPLAYING communities and in my experience a good portion of them are people who -only- roleplay and don't involved in any gameplay mechanics or only do so if it furthers their RP in some way. Perhaps a no-combat mmorpg would fare well with that audience?

Quizzical

There won't be a hugely successful non-combat MMORPG until there is one.  But once there is one, there will quickly be a bunch of copycats trying to do the same thing.  One possibility would be an MMO version of some other, well-established genre that doesn't have combat.  Could a sports MMO be successful?  Maybe.

Apart from trying to avoid things that you find offensive or not age-appropriate, I think it's a mistake to define a game in terms of what it isn't.  Rather, the question is, what do you do in the game?  As I see it, the combat question is whether a game is primarily about combat or not.  Most MMORPGs are, and to the extent that they have side activities, they're there to make you better at combat.

But there can be and have been games that were fun without being primarily about combat, such as Uncharted Waters Online.  The article mentions A Tale in the Desert, too.

Iselin

Sure, why not? Gamers have shown that they will play anything if it's presented properly and it isn't totally broken.

It wouldn't be my type of game but it could appeal to many if well done.

cheyane

I played Black Desert online like it had hardly any combat since my main activity was trading, breeding horses, making beer for my thirsty workers, fishing, farming and building up my worker empire. The only time I fought anything was to open a node and even then when the mobs were too high level I would follow in someone's wake or simply try to run to the node activate it and run like a bat out of hell. That black spirit must have found me wanting.

I would not be at all surprised that there are many people who play online MMORPGs and hardly participate in the combat. I know this one guy in WoW who spent all his time playing the market and another on Dark Age of Camelot who only crafted at a very high level for the guild. He didn't seem interested in participating in the  RvR either. I would think there must be many individuals who enjoy the atmosphere and ecosystem of an entire world where they can do things like this and not worry about the combat.

I think I also failed an Atelier game because I focused on the crafting and the days passed and I failed to achieve some goals having gotten too engrossed in making gear and suddenly the damn game ended and I had not done well at all and got a shitty ending.

Mendel

Every game requires some kind of 'win' condition, even MMORPGs.  Combat might be optional or even prohibited, but it provides a win condition in most games.  A game without combat must have another mechanism to replicate that success-fail sensation; a conflict resolution mechanism that is satisfying to the player.

Nanfoodle

Mendel said:

Every game requires some kind of 'win' condition, even MMORPGs.  Combat might be optional or even prohibited, but it provides a win condition in most games.  A game without combat must have another mechanism to replicate that success-fail sensation; a conflict resolution mechanism that is satisfying to the player.

I agree but sometimes the win element can be explorer pips. Exploration is an area that does not need constant win feeling. But it does get more rewarding when you earn an achievement for finding how to get to a Summit but is not required for real explorers. 

eoloe

cheyane said:

I played Black Desert online like it had hardly any combat since my main activity was trading, breeding horses, making beer for my thirsty workers, fishing, farming and building up my worker empire.

Yeah, BDO managed to gather a proud community of life-skillers and developed a whole progression system to keep the players engaged (addict) similar to the combat gear. Some clueless people would even call this "RPG".
And yes, I for months only navigated the seas to trade, while also playing the market excel-sheet-style, no combat involved. Almost... Once my boat got sunk by another aggressive player. That happens no big deal.
But at least in BDO, if you want to smash things and have a change of rhythm, you can and I did this too. Unfortunately the combat aspect in BDO is beautiful but entirely dull and gets boring quite fast.
Maybe it is one of the reasons of the life-skilling success.

eoloe

My problem with non-combat based game is that it turns quickly into a glorified 3d chat, in which the 2D chatbox UI becomes the main component.

In other words, you often lose the gaming aspect, the lose/win aspect in order to foster the social experience and meaningless progression gains.

slowz2secret

No, I will play sims then.

elveone

The question is what is the point of the massive scale in an MMORPG if there isn't combat? Chatting is not a game, and really, how many people can chat at once can you have before it is pure anarchy?

Racing is done with rather limited number of cars on the racetrack which can hardly be called "massive" and even with an open world it is still pretty hard to call the game an MMO. Generally speaking sports games even when they have shared open world are still viewed as lobby games. Forza Horizon already does this and is not called an MMO.

Economy for the sake of economy cannot really be done because you don't have end consumers in a virtual environment. Of course you can simulate them but then how do you simulate which brand is preferred by those virtual consumers without it being up to chance or having a really easy way to monopolize the economy? Also without having risks when gathering resources then the whole game is just one giant grind without much thought to it. And if the risks are based only on random chance then the players will feel their agency is impeded.

Lithuanian

Surely, it can. I guess there are enough people tired of being Almighty Hero Destined to Stop End of The World. 
A peacefull game where you can craft, interact with others, just enjoy life. Could be a real alternaytive to standard 'kill-them-all-they-are-evil" mmos.

Kyleran

Theocritus said:

This topic comes up occasionally.....There used to be a game called "Glitch" that had no combat....I really enjoyed it but the studio that made it went bankrupt and they had to shut it down....For a game to survive without combat, it would have to have high quality social aspects that the players find enjoyable.....Believe it or not, there is a world out there where we dont have to kill every living thing...It just hasnt been done well yet.

Oh, you are talking about real life then?

Agreed, that hasn't been done all that well so far.

ashiru_1978

No, it will not work well and it may cause the game to fail. I support games that want to focus on community and building relationships between players and so forth, but that's not my idea for an MMORPG.

For me an MMORPG's main feature is having quests about "Kill X, Collect Y" and then having other features that makes it set itself apart from other MMORPGs. Some MMORPGs that I have played for hundreds or thousands of hours have housing, I've won housing items, but I've never touched housing in them, because I think it's boring for me so I don't care, but if other players like it and developers update this feature with more things, that's OK with me.

What I care about is:

- killing mobs (preferably for quests)
- doing quests
- looting gear better than mine that gives me a slight dopamine spike and makes me feel a bit stronger
- leveling up my character (thought questing and killing mobs) and learning new abilities and traits/perks that allow me to customize and personalize how my character works so I can enjoy it more and look forward to that in the future
- go to dungeons, work together with other players in killing stronger mobs and bosses and getting even better loot


I don't care about:

- housing
- community events
- music
- professions
- dancing
- whatever

But I don't mind having those in the game and I don't begrudge others for enjoying it.


If Palia has none of these features I listed, which I think are the very basis of an MMORPG, I think they will be shooting themselves in the foot and may be sentencing their game to an early death. I think they might do what New World did with and change it into a game more welcoming for everyone to save it.