Throne & Liberty may not be the game your looking for?

Nanfoodle

(20) Throne and Liberty is Dead on Arrival! - YouTube

Really bad combat, auto play/hunting. Not being able to kill mobs your same level unless you turn on auto consume pots for healing. Season pass gives you tones of consumables that you would need to be on par with NPCs. Only 1/2 though the video and I am really unhappy. Will add more info as I watch it. 

EDIT: Watched the rest of the video. Most of the info is it the first 3 mins, rest is just voicing concerns but does show gameplay though the whole video, so you can see the combat. Almost looks like EQ1 style. So old school gamers may love this. 

cheyane

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Nanfoodle

cheyane said:

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Ok, I will give you that, auto using pots for heals could be seen as a convenance thing. Maybe help me as an old guy not do more damage to my carpal tunnel but the kid you see playing the game watching his char auto combat and auto run between mobs. Thats just straight up mobile gaming. When you get to raids and dungeons and most people dont know how to play their chars. What kind of community will that give. Or will auto play be an valid play style on raid bosses? Do I even need to be there to play? Can I just hit auto play, make sure I have enough healing pots so I can go on date night with my wife?

Dattelis

Nanfoodle said:

cheyane said:

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Ok, I will give you that, auto using pots for heals could be seen as a convenance thing. Maybe help me as an old guy not do more damage to my carpal tunnel but the kid you see playing the game watching his char auto combat and auto run between mobs. Thats just straight up mobile gaming. When you get to raids and dungeons and most people dont know how to play their chars. What kind of community will that give. Or will auto play be an valid play style on raid bosses? Do I even need to be there to play? Can I just hit auto play, make sure I have enough healing pots so I can go on date night with my wife?

According to reddit, it was originally designed to be a mobile game some years ago. It kind of holds water when you think about most of the games NCSoft putting out over the past decade being mostly mobile games (Aion 2, Blade and Soul 2, Blade and Soul Classic or whatever they called it, etc). Plus, its just straight up NCSoft. Be honest, when was the last time NCSoft had a hit? Their version of Aion Classic was a complete failure. I kind of feel sad and jealous at the same time for people who do not know the western history of some of these companies. NCSoft, Nexon, Gameforge (mostly EU history I guess), Gamigo, Snail Games. All of them (and probably many others) you can kind of predict the direction they will go in whenever they try to release something 'new.' Sometimes a spade is a spade.

Nanfoodle

Dattelis said:

Nanfoodle said:

cheyane said:

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Ok, I will give you that, auto using pots for heals could be seen as a convenance thing. Maybe help me as an old guy not do more damage to my carpal tunnel but the kid you see playing the game watching his char auto combat and auto run between mobs. Thats just straight up mobile gaming. When you get to raids and dungeons and most people dont know how to play their chars. What kind of community will that give. Or will auto play be an valid play style on raid bosses? Do I even need to be there to play? Can I just hit auto play, make sure I have enough healing pots so I can go on date night with my wife?

According to reddit, it was originally designed to be a mobile game some years ago. It kind of holds water when you think about most of the games NCSoft putting out over the past decade being mostly mobile games (Aion 2, Blade and Soul 2, Blade and Soul Classic or whatever they called it, etc). Plus, its just straight up NCSoft. Be honest, when was the last time NCSoft had a hit? Their version of Aion Classic was a complete failure. I kind of feel sad and jealous at the same time for people who do not know the western history of some of these companies. NCSoft, Nexon, Gameforge (mostly EU history I guess), Gamigo, Snail Games. All of them (and probably many others) you can kind of predict the direction they will go in whenever they try to release something 'new.' Sometimes a spade is a spade.

As someone who loved Lineage games, this breaks my heart. Watching the kid stream this with auto play on, he looks so board. You can see this if you jump 4 min into the video.  

Dattelis

Nanfoodle said:

Dattelis said:

Nanfoodle said:

cheyane said:

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Ok, I will give you that, auto using pots for heals could be seen as a convenance thing. Maybe help me as an old guy not do more damage to my carpal tunnel but the kid you see playing the game watching his char auto combat and auto run between mobs. Thats just straight up mobile gaming. When you get to raids and dungeons and most people dont know how to play their chars. What kind of community will that give. Or will auto play be an valid play style on raid bosses? Do I even need to be there to play? Can I just hit auto play, make sure I have enough healing pots so I can go on date night with my wife?

According to reddit, it was originally designed to be a mobile game some years ago. It kind of holds water when you think about most of the games NCSoft putting out over the past decade being mostly mobile games (Aion 2, Blade and Soul 2, Blade and Soul Classic or whatever they called it, etc). Plus, its just straight up NCSoft. Be honest, when was the last time NCSoft had a hit? Their version of Aion Classic was a complete failure. I kind of feel sad and jealous at the same time for people who do not know the western history of some of these companies. NCSoft, Nexon, Gameforge (mostly EU history I guess), Gamigo, Snail Games. All of them (and probably many others) you can kind of predict the direction they will go in whenever they try to release something 'new.' Sometimes a spade is a spade.

As someone who loved Lineage games, this breaks my heart. Watching the kid stream this with auto play on, he looks so board. You can see this if you jump 4 min into the video.  

There's always a possibility that Amazon could have them remove the auto-pathing/auto-combat, but even so, I'm not entirely sure if that would help. With many combat things supposedly rooting you in place for a bit, that might be a no-go for a lot of people. I mean even FF14's gcd thing turns a lot of people away from it's combat. I'm just more worried about the monetization since this is NCSoft after all. Even though Lost Ark is heavily monetized and has an endless daily chore wheel to progress your character in strength, at least the combat is top-tier. This game would have to have something outstanding to compensate for some of the glaring flaws it has and I do not know what it is yet. All of that said though, the western market is honestly in a drought so I think it'll have some numbers for the rest of the year at least (assuming no more delays).

Nanfoodle

Dattelis said:

Nanfoodle said:

Dattelis said:

Nanfoodle said:

cheyane said:

In Undecember there is auto consume of mana and hp pots that are on the very low recharge but you can then use the other slots yourself to enable elixir and other potions and in my opinion I feel as a person that hates clicking like mad this makes what you use in the other slots more important. The auto consumption is not going to save your life but rather it frees your hand to actually click other skills. I like the way Undecember prioritizes how you use the time between attacks and not focus on the use of low recharge potions.

I have quite bad problems with excessive clicking in games and I am happy developers are moving away from this. Low recharge potions on auto use is in my opinion a good start.

Ok, I will give you that, auto using pots for heals could be seen as a convenance thing. Maybe help me as an old guy not do more damage to my carpal tunnel but the kid you see playing the game watching his char auto combat and auto run between mobs. Thats just straight up mobile gaming. When you get to raids and dungeons and most people dont know how to play their chars. What kind of community will that give. Or will auto play be an valid play style on raid bosses? Do I even need to be there to play? Can I just hit auto play, make sure I have enough healing pots so I can go on date night with my wife?

According to reddit, it was originally designed to be a mobile game some years ago. It kind of holds water when you think about most of the games NCSoft putting out over the past decade being mostly mobile games (Aion 2, Blade and Soul 2, Blade and Soul Classic or whatever they called it, etc). Plus, its just straight up NCSoft. Be honest, when was the last time NCSoft had a hit? Their version of Aion Classic was a complete failure. I kind of feel sad and jealous at the same time for people who do not know the western history of some of these companies. NCSoft, Nexon, Gameforge (mostly EU history I guess), Gamigo, Snail Games. All of them (and probably many others) you can kind of predict the direction they will go in whenever they try to release something 'new.' Sometimes a spade is a spade.

As someone who loved Lineage games, this breaks my heart. Watching the kid stream this with auto play on, he looks so board. You can see this if you jump 4 min into the video.  

There's always a possibility that Amazon could have them remove the auto-pathing/auto-combat, but even so, I'm not entirely sure if that would help. With many combat things supposedly rooting you in place for a bit, that might be a no-go for a lot of people. I mean even FF14's gcd thing turns a lot of people away from it's combat. I'm just more worried about the monetization since this is NCSoft after all. Even though Lost Ark is heavily monetized and has an endless daily chore wheel to progress your character in strength, at least the combat is top-tier. This game would have to have something outstanding to compensate for some of the glaring flaws it has and I do not know what it is yet. All of that said though, the western market is honestly in a drought so I think it'll have some numbers for the rest of the year at least (assuming no more delays).

In a share holders meeting a few weeks ago, they said the West would be getting the very same cash shop as the East. I am not sure how West friendly this will be. 

Tiller

I'm always pessimistic about any MMORPG these days, but I'm going to reserve my full judgement of this title until at least NA beta. I hate auto-pathing and auto-combat because you are forced to do it or have slower progression. At least the world looks nice I guess.

Andemnon

So, you can basically play this game at the same time as Raid Shadow Legends, or just watch them, if you can be bothered.

Gorwe

I'll just play something like Solasta or D:OS. Note: Solasta is bound to receive a new expansion(this weekend iirc) and with it, massive discounts!

Dattelis

Apparently this game will have 'offline play' as well, whatever that mean.

Nanfoodle

Dattelis said:

Apparently this game will have 'offline play' as well, whatever that mean.

Lots of games have off line play. SWKOR let you send companions on missions. Some games let you do things like farm rest exp or crafting supplies. The hope here is the auto play is not something thats added to the West copy of the game. Up till now we had no confirmation it would be in the East's copy. This new is not being taken well.  

cheyane

What is the auto play you mean you don't fight at all? That's ridiculous. Which idiot thought this was a good idea?

Dattelis

Nanfoodle said:

Dattelis said:

Apparently this game will have 'offline play' as well, whatever that mean.

Lots of games have off line play. SWKOR let you send companions on missions. Some games let you do things like farm rest exp or crafting supplies. The hope here is the auto play is not something thats added to the West copy of the game. Up till now we had no confirmation it would be in the East's copy. This new is not being taken well.  

If its just that then yeah its pretty common. I do know some of these eastern games will have your character still run around to do stuff even if you're not actually logged in (I think it was Age of Wushu? I could be wrong).

cheyane said:

What is the auto play you mean you don't fight at all? That's ridiculous. Which idiot thought this was a good idea?

Most mobile titles have an autoplay feature. Even Honkai Star Rail does (the one people were trying to hype up a couple of weeks ago).

Tiller

cheyane said:

What is the auto play you mean you don't fight at all? That's ridiculous. Which idiot thought this was a good idea?

It's a Korean game mechanic that I think was designed to try and reduce unhealthy gameplay obsession by allowing progression away from the keyboard. I could be wrong though.

MaxBacon

Aftering seeing the beta footage this is extremely disappointing.

The "action combat" marketing pitch is like, WHERE?! An MMO where you're not mobile during combat and are just standing still casting stuff, is not gratifying at all, couldn't be furthest from action.

You are locked in stationary combat... like seriously?! In 2023? We going back to 2006 MMOs now?

I really don't mind auto paths or the passive auto-combat in lower level areas design. But this is the most disapointing combat I've ran into on the past 10 years.


> Puts Unreal Engine 5 in.
> SO PRETTY.
> Gamepla..what?

Nanfoodle

MaxBacon said:

Aftering seeing the beta footage this is extremely disappointing.

The "action combat" marketing pitch is like, WHERE?! An MMO where you're not mobile during combat and are just standing still casting stuff, is not gratifying at all, couldn't be furthest from action.

You are locked in stationary combat... like seriously?! In 2023? We going back to 2006 MMOs now?

I really don't mind auto paths or the passive auto-combat in lower level areas design. But this is the most disapointing combat I've ran into on the past 10 years.


> Puts Unreal Engine 5 in.
> SO PRETTY.
> Gamepla..what?

It has been confirmed that only about 50% of the skills lock you in place. There has been no word on what type of skills that do. 

MaxBacon

Nanfoodle said:

It has been confirmed that only about 50% of the skills lock you in place. There has been no word on what type of skills that do. 

All the footage I've seen ends on this https://clips.twitch.tv/FunDullJayDogFace-kOy5mMKrTk4TuKp1 

It's the stationary casting + the game on top playing itself.

There's no way in the universe this game is not DOA on the west, even Koreans are making fun of this because it's rather over the top; they clearly designed primarly for mobile and the PC experience is not even a bother to make it feel good.

At least BDO did a PC MMO that plays like a PC MMO, and a mobile version of it that plays like a mobile MMO. Which is to me where this game is a huge hit and miss.

Interesting

The gameplay is being tested as beta today and everyone can see the streams of it and the videos available on youtube. You can see the comments on the internet about the gameplay, here, even typing the game name on browser and the news tab will tell you everything, to get the feel of whether its going to thrive or fail, flop, die, etc.

Nanfoodle

MaxBacon said:

Nanfoodle said:

It has been confirmed that only about 50% of the skills lock you in place. There has been no word on what type of skills that do. 

All the footage I've seen ends on this https://clips.twitch.tv/FunDullJayDogFace-kOy5mMKrTk4TuKp1 

It's the stationary casting + the game on top playing itself.

There's no way in the universe this game is not DOA on the west, even Koreans are making fun of this because it's rather over the top; they clearly designed primarly for mobile and the PC experience is not even a bother to make it feel good.

At least BDO did a PC MMO that plays like a PC MMO, and a mobile version of it that plays like a mobile MMO. Which is to me where this game is a huge hit and miss.

NCSoft did confirm there is skills that let you move. I do wonder the trailers of boss fights where no one is moving, if that has to do with auto play. I worry this maybe an endgame tool, not just for grinding. 

Interesting

gameplay design: "MOBILE GAMEPLAY" is how we label it with fewers possible words to convey the prejudice against it to mark it for destruction for the masses. So we just say "its mobile gameplay" and move on, everyone gets the memo

Interesting

mmorpg design (empty world, lifeless world, non organic world, mobs respawning out of thin air no interaction except mobs and some farm nodes that spawn out of thin air, no fauna/migration, no radiant ai, auto this, auto that, pointless and offensive to even look at it without INTERACTION that is RELEVANT to control or WATCH born dead for streamers, kill/fetch quests, tasteless and brainless overall, a copy of lineage without excuse for a new name, except "lore" which nobody cares, because its all about the power progression race, so everyone skip the texts/lore, etc). Game progression systems have evolved to add achievements, collection systems, which only further opens the greed door for whales.

Interesting

monetization (already can see the roots of p2w on some systems affecting progression/power, "want reward for leveling, pay this fee, want these collection rewards? acquire these pay to win items)

Interesting

Target Audience: designed for ZERG guilds and for whales (rich sinfull players who get a kick out of using real life money to defile the fairness and purity of the competitive equality mmorpg experience)

MaxBacon

Nanfoodle said:

MaxBacon said:

Nanfoodle said:

It has been confirmed that only about 50% of the skills lock you in place. There has been no word on what type of skills that do. 

All the footage I've seen ends on this https://clips.twitch.tv/FunDullJayDogFace-kOy5mMKrTk4TuKp1 

It's the stationary casting + the game on top playing itself.

There's no way in the universe this game is not DOA on the west, even Koreans are making fun of this because it's rather over the top; they clearly designed primarly for mobile and the PC experience is not even a bother to make it feel good.

At least BDO did a PC MMO that plays like a PC MMO, and a mobile version of it that plays like a mobile MMO. Which is to me where this game is a huge hit and miss.

NCSoft did confirm there is skills that let you move. I do wonder the trailers of boss fights where no one is moving, if that has to do with auto play. I worry this maybe an endgame tool, not just for grinding. 

Yep the trailers did look good because of all the shiny but once you notice hardly anyone moves on combat it gets rather clear this is overly designed to be good experience for mobile and that's it.

Otherwise it'd be primarly about you moving, dodging, casting your stuff, then yeah it'd feel nice. The vision they have for combat is the one they are giving players on the beta, not the one where they feel they're mobile and combat is fun, but the one where it's made to autoplay itself.

And not seeing the game being delayed at this point and this facing any major changes until release so I'll probably look around for greener fields.

Maybe Blue Proto... DELAY... WELL FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Interesting

I have told this before https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/499167/bomb-throne-and-liberty-chose-tab-targetting-gameplay#latest