I gave up a long time ago when I realized all MMOs are built to only reward people who dedicate their life to them. The more time the better. This just isn't healthy mentally or physically, and it certainly is incompatible with anyone who has aspirations higher than being in a top tier raiding guild. Oh you want a successful career AND a family that loves and respects you? Move along, scrub, no room for casuals here. I couldn't care less about the OPs little diatribe on game mechanics, that's the reason I gave up and really I have enjoyed life much more since I did. Why am I even on a site named MMORPG? Primarily for all the MMO-lite and adjacent games out there which this site covers. I can still enjoy and be successful at those because they don't require marathon gaming sessions in raids or the obligations that come with being a part of a raiding lifestyle. Oh sorry, son, I know you wanted to go to the park with me today, but I have to main tank our big raid in daddy's video game! Yeah that conversation goes over real well. How many of you have had some version of that conversation with your family or friends at some point? PSA: it's not worth it.
I think most MMORPGs work well for casual gamers. The quests have natural stop/start points which work well for time management.
If you're going to be top tier at anything then your family will suffer because the only people who get there are those willing to sacrifice everything to be there.
Enjoy a quest line and leave the elite raiding clan BS to others. All I ever found in "elite" clans was drama.
What I have come to accept is that MMORPGS are no longer the best genre out there, I will return to them but I am not expecting them to be as good as they once were. Also key to that is being in a guild, a guild can work around a whole host of modern MMO issues. You just need to find players like you and there are whole guilds of players like us in fact.
They are one of the best time wasters though. You just gotta find an agreeable one.
MMORPG's don't have to have leveled gear. They just do in order to keep people playing. So many people are in it for the shinies.
As you well know, level 10 with a sword that does 10pts of damage against a 100hp orc is exactly the same experience as level 20 with a sword that does 20pts of damage against a 200hp orc.
Once you realize that most MMORPGs become boring really fast.
I do think it is interesting that as I read this thread people seem to be running off to survival games of one sort or another. I think because the player knowledge matters more there and that is fun.
Knowing where to find a resource or the best defense against a zombie or tinkering with traps and such engages the player more, IMHO.
The whole better gear to fight better enemies is just gated content. In your example I'd rather have the sword always do 10 pts of damage. Maybe a better one do 12 and an inferior one do 8.
What you deem gated content others call progression. So if there is no gear or level progression, what makes it different from a fps, a hack and slash or other game? Nothing wrong with wanting what you want in games, I just don't get wanting an mmorpg or rpg to not have progression. For me, wielding that same weapon you got the first day a year later seems boring. Now, if you are talking about damage and stat squishing, I agree.
I can sort of understand the position of eschewing the long raid sessions or the need to farm religiously before a raid to get the stuff to raid because those are the bad parts. The raiding itself can be lot of fun. This is something that the philosophy of raiding has cultivated and it might be too late to change it now because of how people view time and investment.
Cannot post anything keep getting light bulbs if I try a second paragraph.
Fix this please getting tired of it.
Does it matter how long your paragraphs are? Or how much text is in quotes? I'm wondering if this is about a setting on your end? (I'm not aware of such a setting, just wondering.)
MMORPG's don't have to have leveled gear. They just do in order to keep people playing. So many people are in it for the shinies.
As you well know, level 10 with a sword that does 10pts of damage against a 100hp orc is exactly the same experience as level 20 with a sword that does 20pts of damage against a 200hp orc.
Once you realize that most MMORPGs become boring really fast.
I do think it is interesting that as I read this thread people seem to be running off to survival games of one sort or another. I think because the player knowledge matters more there and that is fun.
Knowing where to find a resource or the best defense against a zombie or tinkering with traps and such engages the player more, IMHO.
The whole better gear to fight better enemies is just gated content. In your example I'd rather have the sword always do 10 pts of damage. Maybe a better one do 12 and an inferior one do 8.
What you deem gated content others call progression. So if there is no gear or level progression, what makes it different from a fps, a hack and slash or other game? Nothing wrong with wanting what you want in games, I just don't get wanting an mmorpg or rpg to not have progression. For me, wielding that same weapon you got the first day a year later seems boring. Now, if you are talking about damage and stat squishing, I agree.
If it's progression it's a progression of gated content. You can't do this until you are level x. Now you are level x you can do this. Rinse and repeat.
And this "progression" then makes the previous areas useless.
But I suppose it depends on what you want from your mmorpg. I'd rather a "world" where all parts of the world can be visited and offer something to the player.
A pack of wolves should always be dangerous though higher level players might have an easier time killing them.
A high level enemy should at least be possible by low level players if they play and plan exceptionally well.
But that's not really what these games want to offer. Just an endless treadmill opening up parts of the game world and losing the previous parts of the game world. It's very dull.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I gave up a long time ago when I realized all MMOs are built to only reward people who dedicate their life to them. The more time the better. This just isn't healthy mentally or physically, and it certainly is incompatible with anyone who has aspirations higher than being in a top tier raiding guild. Oh you want a successful career AND a family that loves and respects you? Move along, scrub, no room for casuals here. I couldn't care less about the OPs little diatribe on game mechanics, that's the reason I gave up and really I have enjoyed life much more since I did. Why am I even on a site named MMORPG? Primarily for all the MMO-lite and adjacent games out there which this site covers. I can still enjoy and be successful at those because they don't require marathon gaming sessions in raids or the obligations that come with being a part of a raiding lifestyle. Oh sorry, son, I know you wanted to go to the park with me today, but I have to main tank our big raid in daddy's video game! Yeah that conversation goes over real well. How many of you have had some version of that conversation with your family or friends at some point? PSA: it's not worth it.
I agree. I do want a more casual experience. That's one of the reasons that I want a Sandbox. So that I can play when and as much as I want to, and not be affected much if I don't. In a massively social "World." Because I want what I do to matter, within that setting.
I think some people are misunderstanding 'gear progression' or at least misunderstanding how it worked in the past to how it works now. Many 'best items' weren't easy to come by even if they were low level.
Going back to my example of Ragnarok Online. RNG was HEAVY in that game. There was a card system where certain monster cards could give you certain low level versions of abilities to different classes that could wear certain socketed items. For example, a Hydra card had a level 1 heal skill that was based off INT. Heal was only for the cleric class, but if a mage got one, that saved them a lot of money on potions. Both the cards and socketed equipment only ever came from farming mobs or buying from other people, not from shops.
These days, most 'good' pieces of gear are guaranteed or at least have a guaranteed source from where they can be acquired (i.e. killing this raid boss every week has a chance to give this item you need). Plus mmos have it wired now that most bosses drop something that everyone can use, as opposed to there being certain mobs that only had certain things for certain classes which forced most people to help each other if they wanted help themselves, not just form parties for whatever they wanted and piss off after like they do now. This whole binding system is garbage as well. It was kind of nice simply farming stuff to sell so you could maybe buy something more rare or just selling stuff you no longer needed once you got the use you wanted out of it.
And this "progression" then makes the previous areas useless.
Another big gripe of mine. In UO I could live out my entire existence in one city.
In UO, players identified with their city. That was also where you did most of your banking, for many. If someone was looking for you, they could recall to your bank and run to your home to see if they could catch up with you. They could leave a message on your bulletin board, if you had one hanging on your house (most did). You got to know your neighbors, and the typical RL stuff.
I remember one guy in another area whose home was being robbed in live time, word went out and about 50 players went to protect him and his home. I got a good kill on that one and retrieved a bunch of loot for the guy, but ended up getting killed myself for revenge. Lost what I had on me, but it was worth it. There WAS retaliation by my own guild on that one. In that case, the looters paid the price for their attempt.
And I didn't know what I was going to do when I logged in on that day. lol
I haven't given up, but I have passed the 10 year mark without finding a new MMO home.
So, I really should give up!
But, this is the genre that provided me with my highest highs of gaming, so im unwilling to give up on it! I also think it's the genre with the most untapped potential, which gives me hope for the future.
I have found good games outside the genre like Fallout 76 and 7 Days to Die...... MMOs now just arent like they were in EQs heyday.....I feel unneeded in MMOs now as pretty everyone can do everything in many more modern MMOs.....I think what made EQ work for me was the uniqueness of the classes and how all of them could fit into a group setting.......Plus players were willing to group, something they are not as willing to do now (and they dont need to really)
I don't often struggle to find games to play, there are plenty out there. I just struggle to find MMORPGs worth my time.
For me though, I have a deep dislike of "regular" multiplayer games, so something like FO76 is anathema to me. I love single player games. I love couch-coop games. I love massively multiplayer games. but that space in the middle I really dislike.
But, currently playing:
Total Warhammer 3 - now that we've had some updates, I've come back to see whether the game is worth playing. At launch it was truly awful in comparison to 1 and 2! But, the updates seem to have improved it a lot.
Divinity: OS2 - playing this coop with my brother. Game feels like the mechanics have improved slightly since the first one, but general world / quest design feels worse.
Warhammer 40k: Speed Freaks Alpha - there isn't much in the game yet, but surprisingly well built a good fun for an hour or two here and there. Plus, it's 40k, and all focused on Orks which are my fav fantasy race.
SWGEmu - yup, it's an MMORPG, but my interest is waning after 3 months. My main (swordsman) was quick to complete and has basically done all endgame content. My alt has been a pleasant surprise, went smuggler / armorsmith as I hadn't done either. I got really into the armor crafting and really enjoyed setting up my shop. BUT, when I ran out of Nabooian Fibreplast, i got surprisingly bummed out! I could no longer make my epic armor, and new fibreplast worth using hasn't spawned since.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
In UO, players identified with their city. That was also where you did most of your banking, for many. If someone was looking for you, they could recall to your bank and run to your home to see if they could catch up with you. They could leave a message on your bulletin board, if you had one hanging on your house (most did). You got to know your neighbors, and the typical RL stuff.
I remember one guy in another area whose home was being robbed in live time, word went out and about 50 players went to protect him and his home. I got a good kill on that one and retrieved a bunch of loot for the guy, but ended up getting killed myself for revenge. Lost what I had on me, but it was worth it. There WAS retaliation by my own guild on that one. In that case, the looters paid the price for their attempt.
And I didn't know what I was going to do when I logged in on that day. lol
I snagged a housing plot near a PK stronghold. They had given the plot to some cohorts, but it fell down and now it was mine.
They threatened to PK me to win it back.
I told them murder was an option, but then so was me advertising the location of their stronghold to the entire server.
In UO, players identified with their city. That was also where you did most of your banking, for many. If someone was looking for you, they could recall to your bank and run to your home to see if they could catch up with you. They could leave a message on your bulletin board, if you had one hanging on your house (most did). You got to know your neighbors, and the typical RL stuff.
I remember one guy in another area whose home was being robbed in live time, word went out and about 50 players went to protect him and his home. I got a good kill on that one and retrieved a bunch of loot for the guy, but ended up getting killed myself for revenge. Lost what I had on me, but it was worth it. There WAS retaliation by my own guild on that one. In that case, the looters paid the price for their attempt.
And I didn't know what I was going to do when I logged in on that day. lol
I snagged a housing plot near a PK stronghold. They had given the plot to some cohorts, but it fell down and now it was mine.
They threatened to PK me to win it back.
I told them murder was an option, but then so was me advertising the location of their stronghold to the entire server.
We left each other alone after that.
One reason why instanced housing is totally lame.
Haha! Great stuff. Gamers can say what they will about the evils of open world PvP and all, but it did add a huge element to the socialization involved, and the "realism" of living in a world.
Not long ago I was of the mind that it was senseless to make such a game anymore. But recent reminders have turned me back to the good parts of it, and I see that as very important. I still want a working Justice System in order to keep it at a minimum. UO's, if you turn "blue healers" gray, and thieves don't get a pass, fits the bill. And some stuff about 24 hour defenses for homes (magic wards, NPC guard hirelings, etc.). But you can't get that sort of depth without it.
UO = Best game ever. It was the best of times, the wildest of times. Make it new, bigger and better.
If you had a stable community and system to make PvP work, then it does have some value it can lend.
If it largely leaves players with zero accountability and it's just a roaming gank-fest, then it just leads to the most common trend of players driving other players away from the game because the design of the game functionally promotes non-competitive hostility.
Games that function as a revolving door to a meat-grinder is, unsurprisingly, not great at fostering a community.
If you had a stable community and system to make PvP work, then it does have some value it can lend.
If it largely leaves players with zero accountability and it's just a roaming gank-fest, then it just leads to the most common trend of players driving other players away from the game because the design of the game functionally promotes non-competitive hostility.
Games that function as a revolving door to a meat-grinder is, unsurprisingly, not great at fostering a community.
Yeah, exactly. That's why I want the Justice System, one that really works, but allows for a little bit of "unscripted" PvP at reasonable times where it makes sense in a RP (or "gamesmanship") sort of way.
There needs to be a legit warfare system too, for larger numbers, but protects those who aren't involved.
Also, I think that a Pantheon of deities who support said Justice System through rewards would help a lot. NOT rewards like we commonly think of, but defined benefits such as an alignment system where it helps in dealing with associated NPCs. For example, "secret" information that helps in the search for related, RP artifacts, used to help an entire community (not just PvPers, i.e. entire cities), and used to bring combat into action in the RP form.
Imagine a world where Players can build mine shafts over rich ore sites, and then allow other players to mine inside them for more than normal yields. Yielding a prime ore, sometimes other associated ores, certain minerals (pigments, alchemical, etc.), certain gemstones, and whatever. Now think of an ancient artifact, a deity's magical pickaxe, that if displayed at the city's Public Hall will grant boosts to production in all currently held mines. And this artifact can be stolen, or fought over in sanctioned wars. Or maybe the Deity himself might take it to use (random chance after x amount of extra production), and drop it when he's done, leaving it out in the game world to be discovered again by a new "owner."
I haven't given up, but I have passed the 10 year mark without finding a new MMO home.
So, I really should give up!
But, this is the genre that provided me with my highest highs of gaming, so im unwilling to give up on it! I also think it's the genre with the most untapped potential, which gives me hope for the future.
I have found good games outside the genre like Fallout 76 and 7 Days to Die...... MMOs now just arent like they were in EQs heyday.....I feel unneeded in MMOs now as pretty everyone can do everything in many more modern MMOs.....I think what made EQ work for me was the uniqueness of the classes and how all of them could fit into a group setting.......Plus players were willing to group, something they are not as willing to do now (and they dont need to really)
I don't often struggle to find games to play, there are plenty out there. I just struggle to find MMORPGs worth my time.
For me though, I have a deep dislike of "regular" multiplayer games, so something like FO76 is anathema to me. I love single player games. I love couch-coop games. I love massively multiplayer games. but that space in the middle I really dislike.
But, currently playing:
Total Warhammer 3 - now that we've had some updates, I've come back to see whether the game is worth playing. At launch it was truly awful in comparison to 1 and 2! But, the updates seem to have improved it a lot.
Divinity: OS2 - playing this coop with my brother. Game feels like the mechanics have improved slightly since the first one, but general world / quest design feels worse.
Warhammer 40k: Speed Freaks Alpha - there isn't much in the game yet, but surprisingly well built a good fun for an hour or two here and there. Plus, it's 40k, and all focused on Orks which are my fav fantasy race.
SWGEmu - yup, it's an MMORPG, but my interest is waning after 3 months. My main (swordsman) was quick to complete and has basically done all endgame content. My alt has been a pleasant surprise, went smuggler / armorsmith as I hadn't done either. I got really into the armor crafting and really enjoyed setting up my shop. BUT, when I ran out of Nabooian Fibreplast, i got surprisingly bummed out! I could no longer make my epic armor, and new fibreplast worth using hasn't spawned since.
What I learned a long time ago was what I liked was having a nice big world to explore.....Games that offer that are appealing to me.....Games that are on rails or the world is made only for questing are what I dont like.....The more there is to explore the better.
I haven't given up, but I have passed the 10 year mark without finding a new MMO home.
So, I really should give up!
But, this is the genre that provided me with my highest highs of gaming, so im unwilling to give up on it! I also think it's the genre with the most untapped potential, which gives me hope for the future.
I have found good games outside the genre like Fallout 76 and 7 Days to Die...... MMOs now just arent like they were in EQs heyday.....I feel unneeded in MMOs now as pretty everyone can do everything in many more modern MMOs.....I think what made EQ work for me was the uniqueness of the classes and how all of them could fit into a group setting.......Plus players were willing to group, something they are not as willing to do now (and they dont need to really)
I don't often struggle to find games to play, there are plenty out there. I just struggle to find MMORPGs worth my time.
For me though, I have a deep dislike of "regular" multiplayer games, so something like FO76 is anathema to me. I love single player games. I love couch-coop games. I love massively multiplayer games. but that space in the middle I really dislike.
But, currently playing:
Total Warhammer 3 - now that we've had some updates, I've come back to see whether the game is worth playing. At launch it was truly awful in comparison to 1 and 2! But, the updates seem to have improved it a lot.
Divinity: OS2 - playing this coop with my brother. Game feels like the mechanics have improved slightly since the first one, but general world / quest design feels worse.
Warhammer 40k: Speed Freaks Alpha - there isn't much in the game yet, but surprisingly well built a good fun for an hour or two here and there. Plus, it's 40k, and all focused on Orks which are my fav fantasy race.
SWGEmu - yup, it's an MMORPG, but my interest is waning after 3 months. My main (swordsman) was quick to complete and has basically done all endgame content. My alt has been a pleasant surprise, went smuggler / armorsmith as I hadn't done either. I got really into the armor crafting and really enjoyed setting up my shop. BUT, when I ran out of Nabooian Fibreplast, i got surprisingly bummed out! I could no longer make my epic armor, and new fibreplast worth using hasn't spawned since.
What I learned a long time ago was what I liked was having a nice big world to explore.....Games that offer that are appealing to me.....Games that are on rails or the world is made only for questing are what I dont like.....The more there is to explore the better.
See, I am opposite, kinda. I need a purpose, a goal or otherwise I lose all will to play. So, on rails? More than ok. As long as it's fun in the process. Exploration? A nice bonus, nothing else.
I haven't given up, but I have passed the 10 year mark without finding a new MMO home.
So, I really should give up!
But, this is the genre that provided me with my highest highs of gaming, so im unwilling to give up on it! I also think it's the genre with the most untapped potential, which gives me hope for the future.
I have found good games outside the genre like Fallout 76 and 7 Days to Die...... MMOs now just arent like they were in EQs heyday.....I feel unneeded in MMOs now as pretty everyone can do everything in many more modern MMOs.....I think what made EQ work for me was the uniqueness of the classes and how all of them could fit into a group setting.......Plus players were willing to group, something they are not as willing to do now (and they dont need to really)
I don't often struggle to find games to play, there are plenty out there. I just struggle to find MMORPGs worth my time.
For me though, I have a deep dislike of "regular" multiplayer games, so something like FO76 is anathema to me. I love single player games. I love couch-coop games. I love massively multiplayer games. but that space in the middle I really dislike.
But, currently playing:
Total Warhammer 3 - now that we've had some updates, I've come back to see whether the game is worth playing. At launch it was truly awful in comparison to 1 and 2! But, the updates seem to have improved it a lot.
Divinity: OS2 - playing this coop with my brother. Game feels like the mechanics have improved slightly since the first one, but general world / quest design feels worse.
Warhammer 40k: Speed Freaks Alpha - there isn't much in the game yet, but surprisingly well built a good fun for an hour or two here and there. Plus, it's 40k, and all focused on Orks which are my fav fantasy race.
SWGEmu - yup, it's an MMORPG, but my interest is waning after 3 months. My main (swordsman) was quick to complete and has basically done all endgame content. My alt has been a pleasant surprise, went smuggler / armorsmith as I hadn't done either. I got really into the armor crafting and really enjoyed setting up my shop. BUT, when I ran out of Nabooian Fibreplast, i got surprisingly bummed out! I could no longer make my epic armor, and new fibreplast worth using hasn't spawned since.
What I learned a long time ago was what I liked was having a nice big world to explore.....Games that offer that are appealing to me.....Games that are on rails or the world is made only for questing are what I dont like.....The more there is to explore the better.
See, I am opposite, kinda. I need a purpose, a goal or otherwise I lose all will to play. So, on rails? More than ok. As long as it's fun in the process. Exploration? A nice bonus, nothing else.
Yeah, I have a former coworker who, when he picked up Skyrim, headed out in the world and about 15 minutes later he uninstalled.
He wanted to know where to go and after that where to go again.
He also told me he hummed his controller across the room about 10 minutes into Dark Souls so clearly he knew what he liked.
And did'n't
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Interestingly I do like having a coherent purpose to what I am doing in my games as well, however I very much enjoyed games like Skyrim and Dark Souls.
But for my perspective, I knew what my main objectives were, and exploring was a part of achieving those goals. If a mission is too rote, then I'm just going through the motions and it might as well be a movie. If it's too loose, then I have no inherent direction to my actions and I'm probably just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I like goals in principle of having something I can be working towards, and it doesn't have to be an immediate thing. Rather having a grand quest objective that is achieved in a variety of ways through the in-between experience means a lot to me.
Kind of goes back to my roots and personal experiences with PnP RPGs there though. Having the overarching story beats of the DM plus the player interactions and collaborative narrative while still under that common goal we were striving for.
Interestingly I do like having a coherent purpose to what I am doing in my games as well, however I very much enjoyed games like Skyrim and Dark Souls.
But for my perspective, I knew what my main objectives were, and exploring was a part of achieving those goals. If a mission is too rote, then I'm just going through the motions and it might as well be a movie. If it's too loose, then I have no inherent direction to my actions and I'm probably just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I like goals in principle of having something I can be working towards, and it doesn't have to be an immediate thing. Rather having a grand quest objective that is achieved in a variety of ways through the in-between experience means a lot to me.
Kind of goes back to my roots and personal experiences with PnP RPGs there though. Having the overarching story beats of the DM plus the player interactions and collaborative narrative while still under that common goal we were striving for.
Yeah, I always want to have things to work towards. I don't want guided tours when the basic objective is adventure.
I agree with the OP on leveling limiting gameplay, it also limits people able to play with friends at different levels. Its a very anti-social mechanic which is a huge problem for new MMORPG as they should be encouraging social behaviors.
I dont necessarily agree with the theorycrafting. I like having different weapons with all kinds of different traits. UO had lots of attributes on gear, this was some of the best part of UO to me.
What I dont like is how its always stacking crit hit/dmg, attack speed as the meta.
In your silver mace example, I like how different mobs with weaknesses and it up to the player to bring the right equipment to maximize effectiveness. Using the right gear made a BIG difference. I think the main reason MMO's have stopped this, is because for some reason they want players to have limited inventory. Now they want everyone to have 1 weapon of UBERNESS that everyone strives for, that they use for every situation.
In todays age when storage is CHEAP and massive compared to 20 years ago, you would think allowing people to have massive inventory/storage would not be a problem considering these are just a tiny amounts of text. However new games limit storage all the time.
Interestingly I do like having a coherent purpose to what I am doing in my games as well, however I very much enjoyed games like Skyrim and Dark Souls.
But for my perspective, I knew what my main objectives were, and exploring was a part of achieving those goals. If a mission is too rote, then I'm just going through the motions and it might as well be a movie. If it's too loose, then I have no inherent direction to my actions and I'm probably just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I like goals in principle of having something I can be working towards, and it doesn't have to be an immediate thing. Rather having a grand quest objective that is achieved in a variety of ways through the in-between experience means a lot to me.
Kind of goes back to my roots and personal experiences with PnP RPGs there though. Having the overarching story beats of the DM plus the player interactions and collaborative narrative while still under that common goal we were striving for.
Solo player games talk to what MMORPGs now seem to be missing, a direction of play. Is it the move to casuals, I think that's a big part of it. How do you get that solo player sense of direction while catering for players only on for half an hour? In a solo game its easy, they pick up where they left of. In multiplayer that sense of direction relies on what everyone else is doing and has already done.
So the cop out method is to just have few if any interdependences between players, not just talking about grouping and crafting, any interaction that depends in some way on what you have done before. That leads to a sense of no direction of play, but of course not advancing beyond the zone "in levels" also leads to that if there is nothing else in place to make you think you have arrived as it were.
Comments
The quests have natural stop/start points which work well for time management.
If you're going to be top tier at anything then your family will suffer because the only people who get there are those willing to sacrifice everything to be there.
Enjoy a quest line and leave the elite raiding clan BS to others.
All I ever found in "elite" clans was drama.
Fix this please getting tired of it.
Or how much text is in quotes?
I'm wondering if this is about a setting on your end?
(I'm not aware of such a setting, just wondering.)
Once upon a time....
And this "progression" then makes the previous areas useless.
But I suppose it depends on what you want from your mmorpg. I'd rather a "world" where all parts of the world can be visited and offer something to the player.
A pack of wolves should always be dangerous though higher level players might have an easier time killing them.
A high level enemy should at least be possible by low level players if they play and plan exceptionally well.
But that's not really what these games want to offer. Just an endless treadmill opening up parts of the game world and losing the previous parts of the game world. It's very dull.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I do want a more casual experience. That's one of the reasons that I want a Sandbox. So that I can play when and as much as I want to, and not be affected much if I don't.
In a massively social "World." Because I want what I do to matter, within that setting.
Once upon a time....
In UO I could live out my entire existence in one city.
They keep re-tooling, re-setting, etc. They'll never release.
They could leave a message on your bulletin board, if you had one hanging on your house (most did).
You got to know your neighbors, and the typical RL stuff.
I remember one guy in another area whose home was being robbed in live time, word went out and about 50 players went to protect him and his home. I got a good kill on that one and retrieved a bunch of loot for the guy, but ended up getting killed myself for revenge. Lost what I had on me, but it was worth it. There WAS retaliation by my own guild on that one. In that case, the looters paid the price for their attempt.
And I didn't know what I was going to do when I logged in on that day. lol
Once upon a time....
They had given the plot to some cohorts, but it fell down and now it was mine.
They threatened to PK me to win it back.
I told them murder was an option, but then so was me advertising the location of their stronghold to the entire server.
We left each other alone after that.
One reason why instanced housing is totally lame.
Not long ago I was of the mind that it was senseless to make such a game anymore. But recent reminders have turned me back to the good parts of it, and I see that as very important.
I still want a working Justice System in order to keep it at a minimum.
UO's, if you turn "blue healers" gray, and thieves don't get a pass, fits the bill.
And some stuff about 24 hour defenses for homes (magic wards, NPC guard hirelings, etc.).
But you can't get that sort of depth without it.
UO = Best game ever. It was the best of times, the wildest of times.
Make it new, bigger and better.
Once upon a time....
If it largely leaves players with zero accountability and it's just a roaming gank-fest, then it just leads to the most common trend of players driving other players away from the game because the design of the game functionally promotes non-competitive hostility.
Games that function as a revolving door to a meat-grinder is, unsurprisingly, not great at fostering a community.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
There needs to be a legit warfare system too, for larger numbers, but protects those who aren't involved.
Also, I think that a Pantheon of deities who support said Justice System through rewards would help a lot.
NOT rewards like we commonly think of, but defined benefits such as an alignment system where it helps in dealing with associated NPCs.
For example, "secret" information that helps in the search for related, RP artifacts, used to help an entire community (not just PvPers, i.e. entire cities), and used to bring combat into action in the RP form.
Imagine a world where Players can build mine shafts over rich ore sites, and then allow other players to mine inside them for more than normal yields.
Yielding a prime ore, sometimes other associated ores, certain minerals (pigments, alchemical, etc.), certain gemstones, and whatever.
Now think of an ancient artifact, a deity's magical pickaxe, that if displayed at the city's Public Hall will grant boosts to production in all currently held mines.
And this artifact can be stolen, or fought over in sanctioned wars.
Or maybe the Deity himself might take it to use (random chance after x amount of extra production), and drop it when he's done, leaving it out in the game world to be discovered again by a new "owner."
Those darn deities. They don't care. *grumbles*
Just spit-balling.
Once upon a time....
What I learned a long time ago was what I liked was having a nice big world to explore.....Games that offer that are appealing to me.....Games that are on rails or the world is made only for questing are what I dont like.....The more there is to explore the better.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But for my perspective, I knew what my main objectives were, and exploring was a part of achieving those goals. If a mission is too rote, then I'm just going through the motions and it might as well be a movie. If it's too loose, then I have no inherent direction to my actions and I'm probably just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I like goals in principle of having something I can be working towards, and it doesn't have to be an immediate thing. Rather having a grand quest objective that is achieved in a variety of ways through the in-between experience means a lot to me.
Kind of goes back to my roots and personal experiences with PnP RPGs there though. Having the overarching story beats of the DM plus the player interactions and collaborative narrative while still under that common goal we were striving for.
Once upon a time....
I dont necessarily agree with the theorycrafting. I like having different weapons with all kinds of different traits. UO had lots of attributes on gear, this was some of the best part of UO to me. What I dont like is how its always stacking crit hit/dmg, attack speed as the meta. In your silver mace example, I like how different mobs with weaknesses and it up to the player to bring the right equipment to maximize effectiveness. Using the right gear made a BIG difference. I think the main reason MMO's have stopped this, is because for some reason they want players to have limited inventory. Now they want everyone to have 1 weapon of UBERNESS that everyone strives for, that they use for every situation.
In todays age when storage is CHEAP and massive compared to 20 years ago, you would think allowing people to have massive inventory/storage would not be a problem considering these are just a tiny amounts of text. However new games limit storage all the time.
So the cop out method is to just have few if any interdependences between players, not just talking about grouping and crafting, any interaction that depends in some way on what you have done before. That leads to a sense of no direction of play, but of course not advancing beyond the zone "in levels" also leads to that if there is nothing else in place to make you think you have arrived as it were.