Phase 1: Naive gathers, white knights, and gankers enter the game. Wow, this game is fun and everything looks cool for about 2 months.
Phase 2: White knights realize protecting gatherers is boring as hell, expensive, and then convert to gankers.
Phase 3: With no protection, crafters leave the game.
Phase 4: With the gatherers gone, small and medium sized guilds begin to suffer. They're unable to compete with gear/town upgrades and they're driven out of the game by the elite guilds (read: exploiters who've tons of duplicated assets).
Phase 5: With a dwindling population, elite clans realize they've shit the bed again and move onto the next game.
You have no clue what your talking about. Do you even know the flagging system in this game and how its tied to bounties? Or you just randomly trashing a game because its not what you are looking for? Did you take 5 min to see why everything you said it wrong?
You have no clue what your talking about. Do you even know the flagging system in this game and how its tied to bounties? Or you just randomly trashing a game because its not what you are looking for? Did you take 5 min to see why everything you said it wrong?
You must have posted the wrong video, because it just confirmed everything I suspected.
First: In Ultima Online a murderer wouldn't lose a percentage of what he was carrying - he'd lose all of it. There was also a reduction in stats - and despite stiffer penalties than AoC, they were still a plague of locusts devouring everything in their path.
Second: The more complex the system the more room there is for exploitation.
With a couple of months you'll have 12 man gank squads running around lolz-steamrolling everything.
But I tell you what, let's have the game release and we'll see how my post ages. I can wait.
You have no clue what your talking about. Do you even know the flagging system in this game and how its tied to bounties? Or you just randomly trashing a game because its not what you are looking for? Did you take 5 min to see why everything you said it wrong?
You must have posted the wrong video, because it just confirmed everything I suspected.
First: In Ultima Online a murderer wouldn't lose a percentage of what he was carrying - he'd lose all of it. There was also a reduction in stats - and despite stiffer penalties than AoC, they were still a plague of locusts devouring everything in their path.
Second: The more complex the system the more room there is for exploitation.
With a couple of months you'll have 12 man gank squads running around lolz-steamrolling everything.
But I tell you what, let's have the game release and we'll see how my post ages. I can wait.
You do get this is not complicated? This flagging system of 3 states is time tested and works? Its been used by some of the best PvP games out there like Lineage? You have a ton of protection as a lonely crafter that does not feel like PvPing. From the flag system and the community that will richly be reward for killing that PKer. It will be the hobby of many people like me. Who will hunt PKers over the rich reward you will get for doing so.
You have no clue what your talking about. Do you even know the flagging system in this game and how its tied to bounties? Or you just randomly trashing a game because its not what you are looking for? Did you take 5 min to see why everything you said it wrong?
You must have posted the wrong video, because it just confirmed everything I suspected.
First: In Ultima Online a murderer wouldn't lose a percentage of what he was carrying - he'd lose all of it. There was also a reduction in stats - and despite stiffer penalties than AoC, they were still a plague of locusts devouring everything in their path.
Second: The more complex the system the more room there is for exploitation.
With a couple of months you'll have 12 man gank squads running around lolz-steamrolling everything.
But I tell you what, let's have the game release and we'll see how my post ages. I can wait.
You do get this is not complicated? This flagging system of 3 states is time tested and works? Its been used by some of the best PvP games out there like Lineage? You have a ton of protection as a lonely crafter that does not feel like PvPing. From the flag system and the community that will richly be reward for killing that PKer. It will be the hobby of many people like me. Who will hunt PKers over the rich reward you will get for doing so.
You have no clue what your talking about. Do you even know the flagging system in this game and how its tied to bounties? Or you just randomly trashing a game because its not what you are looking for? Did you take 5 min to see why everything you said it wrong?
You must have posted the wrong video, because it just confirmed everything I suspected.
First: In Ultima Online a murderer wouldn't lose a percentage of what he was carrying - he'd lose all of it. There was also a reduction in stats - and despite stiffer penalties than AoC, they were still a plague of locusts devouring everything in their path.
Second: The more complex the system the more room there is for exploitation.
With a couple of months you'll have 12 man gank squads running around lolz-steamrolling everything.
But I tell you what, let's have the game release and we'll see how my post ages. I can wait.
You do get this is not complicated? This flagging system of 3 states is time tested and works? Its been used by some of the best PvP games out there like Lineage? You have a ton of protection as a lonely crafter that does not feel like PvPing. From the flag system and the community that will richly be reward for killing that PKer. It will be the hobby of many people like me. Who will hunt PKers over the rich reward you will get for doing so.
Right.
Nothing wrong with hoping for the best.
Or praying for the worst lol 5 steps to a game closing it doors in months =-D
Or praying for the worst lol 5 steps to a game closing it doors in months =-D
I don't win any prizes if the game closes.
I just have enough experience in gaming to laugh at bad ideas.
Of course, it is possible they've thought of all the same things that have occurred to me and are working on putting systems in place to counter, which would be awesome, because frankly, I'd like to see a game like this succeed.
Let's look at one determent to being a PK:
You could lose your stuff.
That is so laughably bad that I cannot take the rest of what is said seriously. In other games I've played the PKs either run around in such enormous groups that losing anything is nearly impossible, or they're already so rich that anything they lose is only a small fraction of their income. They typically run with minimal gear anyways. When you're fighting a Balrog and are at 10% health the PK doesn't have to have nice gear to finish you off. He can kill you with a butter knife and take everything you've been farming for the past hour. He's risking a Common Dagger of Butterness against what you've been farming for the past hour. This is also why skill detriments aren't a big deal.
While actual implementation may save the day I didn't see anything interesting in that video. Nothing I wouldn't have guessed, at any rate.
You didnt watch that video all the way though. So let me splane. PKers can only take a % of your crafting resources you have on you. And some items I wont get into that = money. You can not take your items and gear and weapons. Just a small % of what you gathered on this outing.
PKers on the other hand, drop 4 x the crafting resources and also an item. They also lose 400% exp. Exp debt gives you huge debuffs. So if they keep PKing. They get easier and easier to kill and keep dropping their gear for doing so. Making them more and more naked. Also making them easier to kill. If you see a PKer, everyone will want a chunk of their hide. And there is no negative impact for killing a PKer. There is for killing someone flagged green. Someone not looking to PvP.
You didnt watch that video all the way though. So let me splane. PKers can only take a % of your crafting resources you have on you. And some items I wont get into that = money. You can not take your items and gear and weapons. Just a small % of what you gathered on this outing.
PKers on the other hand, drop 4 x the crafting resources and also an item. They also lose 400% exp. Exp dept gives you huge debuffs. So if they keep PKing. They get easier and easier to kill and keep dropping their gear for doing so. Making them more and more naked. Also making them easier to kill. If you see a PKer, everyone will want a chunk of their hide. And there is no negative impact for killing a PKer. There is for killing someone flagged green. Someone not looking to PvP.
Yes, I watched that and understood.
Once the game releases please be sure to send me a link to a thread where you explain to the hundreds of crafters that are quitting that "Hey, you only lost 25% of the corn you gathered" - because that will be good for some laughs.
The entire video completely ignored the fact that even if you lost 25% you still have to waste time in town pulling your pants back up, head back out again, only to get whacked yet again - and it takes only a couple of those experiences for most people to uninstall.
"No, man.. don't leave.. a posse is riding out - oddly enough, to score big profits off the PK who murdered you. Thanks for giving your life to run up the bounty of P|mPM@sTA, he'll be a fat haul for us."
So...much...clueless.
The team is focusing on the loot aspect of the equation and ignoring the social aspect. This will be rich.
You didnt watch that video all the way though. So let me splane. PKers can only take a % of your crafting resources you have on you. And some items I wont get into that = money. You can not take your items and gear and weapons. Just a small % of what you gathered on this outing.
PKers on the other hand, drop 4 x the crafting resources and also an item. They also lose 400% exp. Exp dept gives you huge debuffs. So if they keep PKing. They get easier and easier to kill and keep dropping their gear for doing so. Making them more and more naked. Also making them easier to kill. If you see a PKer, everyone will want a chunk of their hide. And there is no negative impact for killing a PKer. There is for killing someone flagged green. Someone not looking to PvP.
Yes, I watched that and understood.
Once the game releases please be sure to send me a link to a thread where you explain to the hundreds of crafters that are quitting that "Hey, you only lost 25% of the corn you gathered" - because that will be good for some laughs.
The entire video completely ignored the fact that even if you lost 25% you still have to waste time in town pulling your pants back up, head back out again, only to get whacked yet again - and it takes only a couple of those experiences for most people to uninstall.
"No, man.. don't leave.. a posse is riding out - oddly enough, to score big profits off the PK who murdered you. Thanks for giving your life to run up the bounty of P|mPM@sTA, he'll be a fat haul for us."
So...much...clueless.
The team is focusing on the loot aspect of the equation and ignoring the social aspect. This will be rich.
As I said, this is a PvX game, designed for PvX players. Steven has said this game is not for everyone and they are not looking to please the general gamer and be a WoW killer. They are looking for a market of gamers that dont have a game right now. As its been too long since we have had a solid PvX game that is not designed around a cash shop. Anyone that plays Ashes and leaves because a player killed them. It not the target market of this game.
I like the ambition, but PvP where your town can be wiped out.... I'm not sure how well that is going to fly. Look at the headaches in New World - it is hard to imagine this being a wild success.
Love the concept though.
Personally I like the concept. Just as I liked Darkfall. But when people lose their stuff in games it creates a lot of heartache and exodus.
Ark immediately came to mind. It is very popular but most everyone I know who plays has a love/hate relationship with public pvp servers for this very reason. The only people who really like this kind of thing long term are those who are entrenched above a certain level in the pyramid or chain, so that they never really truly lose anything and all those below them grind like hell to keep it all going.
In Darkfall my guild took and held a city for the first 4 months. We had 50+ online every night. Then we lost that city and dropped to 10 or so logging in.
As I said, this is a PvX game, designed for PvX players. Steven has said this game is not for everyone and they are not looking to please the general gamer and be a WoW killer. They are looking for a market of gamers that dont have a game right now. As its been too long since we have had a solid PvX game that is not designed around a cash shop. Anyone that plays Ashes and leaves because a player killed them. It not the target market of this game.
Well, that is what is confusing me a little bit. Working on the "end game is dead" theory I proposed elsewhere.
Why would PvE players play this game if they are forced into PvP? Why would PvP players play this game if they are forced into crafting?
If pure crafters/gatherers aren't there then who is going to be doing all that work?
As I said, this is a PvX game, designed for PvX players. Steven has said this game is not for everyone and they are not looking to please the general gamer and be a WoW killer. They are looking for a market of gamers that dont have a game right now. As its been too long since we have had a solid PvX game that is not designed around a cash shop. Anyone that plays Ashes and leaves because a player killed them. It not the target market of this game.
Well, that is what is confusing me a little bit. Working on the "end game is dead" theory I proposed elsewhere.
Why would PvE players play this game if they are forced into PvP? Why would PvP players play this game if they are forced into crafting?
If pure crafters/gatherers aren't there then who is going to be doing all that work?
Who is this game made for?
PvX players. I keep saying this but your not paying attention. PvX players, like PvE that also has PvP designed into its game play. We dont get upset when killing a raid boss and another guild shows up. We want that fight. Fighting a killer dragon and 30 PvX players as well. We welcome the fact that will be flagged red and we can take their loot as well for trying to take our dragon. I want to craft and make in game money and also rob other caravans of goods so I can get rich and weaken my ravels. There is more of us out here then you think.
I wish developers would think about what people actually enjoy doing with their time. For me, conquering PKS is a matter of thinking about what those people love to do, and that is PvP. So if I were a game designer, I'd think about throwing as much PvP at those guys as possible.
So how about this mindblowing concept? What if the purpose of the person making the game was not necessarilly to make a game that people will play for years, but rather the game's purpose was to serve as a mechanism to sell digital items in a cash shop? And what if you literally started to sell those items years and years ahead of ever releasing a game? And what if you simply promise every gamer, all the features that they could want? PvPer? Sure this is your game! PvEer? This game is for you! Crafter? We got you covered! Large guild? You guys can fight over nodes! Small Guilds? You guys can claim and build your own property! By the way, have you taken a look at our current sale package? It's limited time and will go away very soon! (To be replaced by the next limited time package of digital goods)
Why limit your potential customer base to just PvE or PvP or Large Guild Or Crafters? Just SELL!
But honestly here... I believe there is a game being made. I think it will have a pretty big launch, and I believe that most players will quickly move on. Some will stay. Very similar to when Archeage launched here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I wish developers would think about what people actually enjoy doing with their time. For me, conquering PKS is a matter of thinking about what those people love to do, and that is PvP. So if I were a game designer, I'd think about throwing as much PvP at those guys as possible.
*************** But honestly here... I believe there is a game being made. I think it will have a pretty big launch, and I believe that most players will quickly move on. Some will stay. Very similar to when Archeage launched here. ***************
This. This is what Steven has said he is shooting for. A targeted base of players looking for this type of game.
PvX players. I keep saying this but your not paying attention. PvX players, like PvE that also has PvP designed into its game play. We dont get upset when killing a raid boss and another guild shows up. We want that fight. Fighting a killer dragon and 30 PvX players as well. We welcome the fact that will be flagged red and we can take their loot as well for trying to take our dragon. I want to craft and make in game money and also rob other caravans of goods so I can get rich and weaken my ravels. There is more of us out here then you think.
First let me say that I hope AoC is a huge hit and that you find in it everything that you're seeking. You not having a good game to play doesn't win me anything at all.
Secondly, the game you're describing is my preferred style of game... when they work.
The things I enjoyed most in Ultima Online were the random PK battles. I never won those, but the joy of getting back to town or a narrow escape could be thrilling. I never carried much and usually only wore the stuff I found but I made money, bought a house, and had fun.
The thing that drove me away wasn't losing a battle, but the utter lack of mechanism to let the PK know I was displeased. Other than joining in the PvP battles there was no way to feel any sense of justice.
So from a psychological standpoint, AoC fails to grasp what I find frustrating about getting ganked. They're talking loot - well, the rich (like in real life) laugh at those sorts of punishments.
Here is an example of what I'd find satisfying:
When a PK dies he goes to "The Pit" (hell). He has to fight his way back out - by collecting bounties on other dead PKs. The Pit is maze like and it may take a PK several hours to escape (the more they've killed, the further down in the pit they go). When some who killed you dies, you get a message and an opportunity to donate funds to make their life in the pit harder.
Just like the PK used his PvP skills to make my life hard I'm now using my merchant (money raising skills) to make his life hard.
The ideal would be a rich merchant could keep a PK in the Pit for several weeks.
This is important because it would let me know, as a victim, that someone who murdered me has fallen on tough times - and I can now make it even worse - and once a merchant gets a reputation for really making the afterlife nasty for a PK I could see them avoiding that victim altogether.
The merchant class needs a way to create hell for a PK.
PvX players. I keep saying this but your not paying attention. PvX players, like PvE that also has PvP designed into its game play. We dont get upset when killing a raid boss and another guild shows up. We want that fight. Fighting a killer dragon and 30 PvX players as well. We welcome the fact that will be flagged red and we can take their loot as well for trying to take our dragon. I want to craft and make in game money and also rob other caravans of goods so I can get rich and weaken my ravels. There is more of us out here then you think.
First let me say that I hope AoC is a huge hit and that you find in it everything that you're seeking. You not having a good game to play doesn't win me anything at all.
Secondly, the game you're describing is my preferred style of game... when they work.
The things I enjoyed most in Ultima Online were the random PK battles. I never won those, but the joy of getting back to town or a narrow escape could be thrilling. I never carried much and usually only wore the stuff I found but I made money, bought a house, and had fun.
The thing that drove me away wasn't losing a battle, but the utter lack of mechanism to let the PK know I was displeased. Other than joining in the PvP battles there was no way to feel any sense of justice.
So from a psychological standpoint, AoC fails to grasp what I find frustrating about getting ganked. They're talking loot - well, the rich (like in real life) laugh at those sorts of punishments.
Here is an example of what I'd find satisfying:
When a PK dies he goes to "The Pit" (hell). He has to fight his way back out - by collecting bounties on other dead PKs. The Pit is maze like and it may take a PK several hours to escape (the more they've killed, the further down in the pit they go). When some who killed you dies, you get a message and an opportunity to donate funds to make their life in the pit harder.
Just like the PK used his PvP skills to make my life hard I'm now using my merchant (money raising skills) to make his life hard.
The ideal would be a rich merchant could keep a PK in the Pit for several weeks.
This is important because it would let me know, as a victim, that someone who murdered me has fallen on tough times - and I can now make it even worse - and once a merchant gets a reputation for really making the afterlife nasty for a PK I could see them avoiding that victim altogether.
The merchant class needs a way to create hell for a PK.
I would rather just kill him with my friends and take his hard earned gear. Sell the gear and make money but that does sound like a cool idea =-)
I would rather just kill him with my friends and take his hard earned gear. Sell the gear and make money but that does sound like a cool idea =-)
I hope you do quite a bit of that.
Here is the disconnect that I'm trying to address. What you describe is fun for the PK and it is fun for the White Knights. It isn't much fun for the Gatherers. In large part this is because the Gatherers only see the victim side of things and may be unaware that a PK that has been tormenting them finally bought it.
It is important to communicate to the Gatherers that the PK that has been tormenting them has been slain, otherwise, it appears that the PK gets away with crimes 24/7 and that can be demoralizing.
Heck, put the head of a PK on a spike in town so the gatherers can see it. Donations made at the grisly scene detract even more EXP from the PK. This gives a rich merchant the ability to get some much needed justice....and more importantly, participate in the justice.
Comments
First: In Ultima Online a murderer wouldn't lose a percentage of what he was carrying - he'd lose all of it. There was also a reduction in stats - and despite stiffer penalties than AoC, they were still a plague of locusts devouring everything in their path.
Second: The more complex the system the more room there is for exploitation.
With a couple of months you'll have 12 man gank squads running around lolz-steamrolling everything.
But I tell you what, let's have the game release and we'll see how my post ages.
I can wait.
Nothing wrong with hoping for the best.
I just have enough experience in gaming to laugh at bad ideas.
Of course, it is possible they've thought of all the same things that have occurred to me and are working on putting systems in place to counter, which would be awesome, because frankly, I'd like to see a game like this succeed.
Let's look at one determent to being a PK:
You could lose your stuff.
That is so laughably bad that I cannot take the rest of what is said seriously.
In other games I've played the PKs either run around in such enormous groups that losing anything is nearly impossible, or they're already so rich that anything they lose is only a small fraction of their income. They typically run with minimal gear anyways.
When you're fighting a Balrog and are at 10% health the PK doesn't have to have nice gear to finish you off. He can kill you with a butter knife and take everything you've been farming for the past hour. He's risking a Common Dagger of Butterness against what you've been farming for the past hour. This is also why skill detriments aren't a big deal.
While actual implementation may save the day I didn't see anything interesting in that video. Nothing I wouldn't have guessed, at any rate.
PKers on the other hand, drop 4 x the crafting resources and also an item. They also lose 400% exp. Exp debt gives you huge debuffs. So if they keep PKing. They get easier and easier to kill and keep dropping their gear for doing so. Making them more and more naked. Also making them easier to kill. If you see a PKer, everyone will want a chunk of their hide. And there is no negative impact for killing a PKer. There is for killing someone flagged green. Someone not looking to PvP.
Once the game releases please be sure to send me a link to a thread where you explain to the hundreds of crafters that are quitting that "Hey, you only lost 25% of the corn you gathered" - because that will be good for some laughs.
The entire video completely ignored the fact that even if you lost 25% you still have to waste time in town pulling your pants back up, head back out again, only to get whacked yet again - and it takes only a couple of those experiences for most people to uninstall.
"No, man.. don't leave.. a posse is riding out - oddly enough, to score big profits off the PK who murdered you. Thanks for giving your life to run up the bounty of P|mPM@sTA, he'll be a fat haul for us."
So...much...clueless.
The team is focusing on the loot aspect of the equation and ignoring the social aspect. This will be rich.
Working on the "end game is dead" theory I proposed elsewhere.
Why would PvE players play this game if they are forced into PvP?
Why would PvP players play this game if they are forced into crafting?
If pure crafters/gatherers aren't there then who is going to be doing all that work?
Who is this game made for?
Why limit your potential customer base to just PvE or PvP or Large Guild Or Crafters? Just SELL!
But honestly here... I believe there is a game being made. I think it will have a pretty big launch, and I believe that most players will quickly move on. Some will stay. Very similar to when Archeage launched here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Secondly, the game you're describing is my preferred style of game... when they work.
The things I enjoyed most in Ultima Online were the random PK battles. I never won those, but the joy of getting back to town or a narrow escape could be thrilling. I never carried much and usually only wore the stuff I found but I made money, bought a house, and had fun.
The thing that drove me away wasn't losing a battle, but the utter lack of mechanism to let the PK know I was displeased. Other than joining in the PvP battles there was no way to feel any sense of justice.
So from a psychological standpoint, AoC fails to grasp what I find frustrating about getting ganked. They're talking loot - well, the rich (like in real life) laugh at those sorts of punishments.
Here is an example of what I'd find satisfying:
When a PK dies he goes to "The Pit" (hell).
He has to fight his way back out - by collecting bounties on other dead PKs.
The Pit is maze like and it may take a PK several hours to escape (the more they've killed, the further down in the pit they go).
When some who killed you dies, you get a message and an opportunity to donate funds to make their life in the pit harder.
Just like the PK used his PvP skills to make my life hard I'm now using my merchant (money raising skills) to make his life hard.
The ideal would be a rich merchant could keep a PK in the Pit for several weeks.
This is important because it would let me know, as a victim, that someone who murdered me has fallen on tough times - and I can now make it even worse - and once a merchant gets a reputation for really making the afterlife nasty for a PK I could see them avoiding that victim altogether.
The merchant class needs a way to create hell for a PK.
Here is the disconnect that I'm trying to address. What you describe is fun for the PK and it is fun for the White Knights. It isn't much fun for the Gatherers. In large part this is because the Gatherers only see the victim side of things and may be unaware that a PK that has been tormenting them finally bought it.
It is important to communicate to the Gatherers that the PK that has been tormenting them has been slain, otherwise, it appears that the PK gets away with crimes 24/7 and that can be demoralizing.
Heck, put the head of a PK on a spike in town so the gatherers can see it. Donations made at the grisly scene detract even more EXP from the PK. This gives a rich merchant the ability to get some much needed justice....and more importantly, participate in the justice.