Yes, you would. It's part of the process. That it can take a good bit of time and effort doesn't diminish the beneficial result of finding a guild suited to you and that you are suited to.
At no point in 20 years have I bothered with guilds. I'm not going to trawl through the game on the %0.000001 chance that there is a guild worth the time spent looking for it. They are utterly and absolutely worthless to me.
Having not been in one for 20 years you have no idea what a good guild is worth. You are of course entitled to image them as valueless as you wish.
Eh.. to be fair, being in a good guild can make a shit game seem like the best thing ever.
This is why I wager far too many people look back on the older MMO's they quit and wax poetically with rose colored glasses on about how great they were., it wasn't the game, it was that group of people that you played with that made you feel like you mattered and you belonged.
This is why two people can look back on one of those old games, and one can think they were complete horseshit and another can think they were better then sex
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Yes, you would. It's part of the process. That it can take a good bit of time and effort doesn't diminish the beneficial result of finding a guild suited to you and that you are suited to.
At no point in 20 years have I bothered with guilds. I'm not going to trawl through the game on the %0.000001 chance that there is a guild worth the time spent looking for it. They are utterly and absolutely worthless to me.
Having not been in one for 20 years you have no idea what a good guild is worth. You are of course entitled to image them as valueless as you wish.
Eh.. to be fair, being in a good guild can make a shit game seem like the best thing ever.
This is why I wager far too many people look back on the older MMO's they quit and wax poetically with rose colored glasses on about how great they were., it wasn't the game, it was that group of people that you played with that made you feel like you mattered and you belonged.
This is why two people can look back on one of those old games, and one can think they were complete horseshit and another can think they were better then sex
If what you're saying is true, that people only remember a game being good because of the people they played with instead of the game itself......wouldn't mmorpgs today be better population wise?
Yes, you would. It's part of the process. That it can take a good bit of time and effort doesn't diminish the beneficial result of finding a guild suited to you and that you are suited to.
At no point in 20 years have I bothered with guilds. I'm not going to trawl through the game on the %0.000001 chance that there is a guild worth the time spent looking for it. They are utterly and absolutely worthless to me.
Having not been in one for 20 years you have no idea what a good guild is worth. You are of course entitled to image them as valueless as you wish.
Eh.. to be fair, being in a good guild can make a shit game seem like the best thing ever.
That capacity is what can make them worth the bother they can often be to find.
Yes, you would. It's part of the process. That it can take a good bit of time and effort doesn't diminish the beneficial result of finding a guild suited to you and that you are suited to.
At no point in 20 years have I bothered with guilds. I'm not going to trawl through the game on the %0.000001 chance that there is a guild worth the time spent looking for it. They are utterly and absolutely worthless to me.
Having not been in one for 20 years you have no idea what a good guild is worth. You are of course entitled to image them as valueless as you wish.
Eh.. to be fair, being in a good guild can make a shit game seem like the best thing ever.
This is why I wager far too many people look back on the older MMO's they quit and wax poetically with rose colored glasses on about how great they were., it wasn't the game, it was that group of people that you played with that made you feel like you mattered and you belonged.
This is why two people can look back on one of those old games, and one can think they were complete horseshit and another can think they were better then sex
If what you're saying is true, that people only remember a game being good because of the people they played with instead of the game itself......wouldn't mmorpgs today be better population wise?
I agree that the decline of guilds has helped lead to the decline of MMOs, but classic gameplay still has a lot to offer than modern gameplay does not. Mainly in the area of grouping. You will note that's a double whammy to the social aspect from both guilds and grouping.
Yes, you would. It's part of the process. That it can take a good bit of time and effort doesn't diminish the beneficial result of finding a guild suited to you and that you are suited to.
At no point in 20 years have I bothered with guilds. I'm not going to trawl through the game on the %0.000001 chance that there is a guild worth the time spent looking for it. They are utterly and absolutely worthless to me.
Having not been in one for 20 years you have no idea what a good guild is worth. You are of course entitled to image them as valueless as you wish.
Eh.. to be fair, being in a good guild can make a shit game seem like the best thing ever.
This is why I wager far too many people look back on the older MMO's they quit and wax poetically with rose colored glasses on about how great they were., it wasn't the game, it was that group of people that you played with that made you feel like you mattered and you belonged.
This is why two people can look back on one of those old games, and one can think they were complete horseshit and another can think they were better then sex
If what you're saying is true, that people only remember a game being good because of the people they played with instead of the game itself......wouldn't mmorpgs today be better population wise?
Well, they are.
I mean, when you think back to the days of Pre-WoW, there were very few MMO's, and their population numbers were in the 200K subs for the top performers, and match that to something like GW2, that 350+ daily log in's, yah, the modern MMO Landscape is in fact more populated
The thing is, with more population, and more choices, the less special players end up feeling, so they wonder back fondly to a time where there were less players, and they were made to feel like they mattered.
For the people that stayed with their starting static of friends and moved with them from game to game, the game itself tends to matter more and they don't think back on yesterday with rose colored glasses.
Even if we get drunk and laugh our assess off in discord about the fuckery we did back then.. because we are also laughing our assess off at the fuckery we just did last night as well.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
That basically never works unless you're only interested in doing the tiny fraction of a game's content that is super popular. If the problem is that a game doesn't have 5 players online in the entire playerbase who are interested in doing some unpopular dungeon, then there aren't going to be 5 such players in your guild alone.
Well yes, you do need a decent sized player base, and certain types of games will not attract the sort of players who make a good guild. But then I am unlikely to be playing those games.
It's not about player-base size. Even WoW made it very difficult to get groups for some content before they allowed cross-server grouping. If the player base generally concludes that dungeon A gives 5% more loot than dungeon B for the same amount of work, or that dungeon A gives the same loot as dungeon B for 5% less work, then that can make it very difficult to get a group for dungeon B.
Sure, but that's a grouping and activity management problem. It does not mean "lets give up on the idea of grouping and grouping content". Or at least I think that's what you are suggesting, not sure we are talking on the same page now?
I'm not saying that we should abandon grouping or guilds. I am saying that guilds alone don't solve the grouping problem.
That basically never works unless you're only interested in doing the tiny fraction of a game's content that is super popular. If the problem is that a game doesn't have 5 players online in the entire playerbase who are interested in doing some unpopular dungeon, then there aren't going to be 5 such players in your guild alone.
Well yes, you do need a decent sized player base, and certain types of games will not attract the sort of players who make a good guild. But then I am unlikely to be playing those games.
It's not about player-base size. Even WoW made it very difficult to get groups for some content before they allowed cross-server grouping. If the player base generally concludes that dungeon A gives 5% more loot than dungeon B for the same amount of work, or that dungeon A gives the same loot as dungeon B for 5% less work, then that can make it very difficult to get a group for dungeon B.
Sure, but that's a grouping and activity management problem. It does not mean "lets give up on the idea of grouping and grouping content". Or at least I think that's what you are suggesting, not sure we are talking on the same page now?
I'm not saying that we should abandon grouping or guilds. I am saying that guilds alone don't solve the grouping problem.
With you now, yes for me they have been a life saver in MMOs but even if every player was in a guild the issues would still be there.
If you're nostalgic for the days when MMORPGs had small player bases, then you could try playing an MMORPG with a small player base. There are plenty of them around, after all, more so than there used to be.
For example, if you were to start playing Uncharted Waters Origin on the Utopia server, I could get you into my guild, CsdaIndia, which is the #4 ranked guild on the server, at least if you pick Joao as your starting admiral. (Actually, I wouldn't need to do anything, as the guild is open for anyone playing as Portugal to join.)
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This is why I wager far too many people look back on the older MMO's they quit and wax poetically with rose colored glasses on about how great they were., it wasn't the game, it was that group of people that you played with that made you feel like you mattered and you belonged.
This is why two people can look back on one of those old games, and one can think they were complete horseshit and another can think they were better then sex
If what you're saying is true, that people only remember a game being good because of the people they played with instead of the game itself......wouldn't mmorpgs today be better population wise?
I mean, when you think back to the days of Pre-WoW, there were very few MMO's, and their population numbers were in the 200K subs for the top performers, and match that to something like GW2, that 350+ daily log in's, yah, the modern MMO Landscape is in fact more populated
The thing is, with more population, and more choices, the less special players end up feeling, so they wonder back fondly to a time where there were less players, and they were made to feel like they mattered.
For the people that stayed with their starting static of friends and moved with them from game to game, the game itself tends to matter more and they don't think back on yesterday with rose colored glasses.
Even if we get drunk and laugh our assess off in discord about the fuckery we did back then.. because we are also laughing our assess off at the fuckery we just did last night as well.
For example, if you were to start playing Uncharted Waters Origin on the Utopia server, I could get you into my guild, CsdaIndia, which is the #4 ranked guild on the server, at least if you pick Joao as your starting admiral. (Actually, I wouldn't need to do anything, as the guild is open for anyone playing as Portugal to join.)