Pantheon - Unbelievable Frustrations and Letdowns!

Geeky

I can't believe I'm even writing this post, but I can't hold back my frustrations anymore. It's been years, and what do we have to show for it? Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen was supposed to be the MMORPG of our dreams, but it's turning into a nightmare of mismanagement and poor decisions.

First off, the lack of communication is beyond infuriating. We're left in the dark for months, and when we finally get an update, it's vague promises and more delays. How many times have they pushed back release estimates? I've lost count! It's like they have no clue what they're doing.

And don't get me started on the 24/7 access fiasco. We were promised alpha access, a chance to test the actual MMORPG, but instead, we get some survival mode nonsense. That's not what we backed! No one signed up to play a one-hour match of a game that doesn't even resemble Pantheon.

The recent art style change is another slap in the face. I get that they want scalability, but now it looks like a "WoW-clone," a mobile game, or even worse, a reminder of the EverQuest Next disaster. It's like they've completely forgotten what we, the backers, signed up for.

And the monetization of the 24/7 test? Seriously? We already backed this game with our hard-earned money, and now they want us to pay even more for this "special mode"? It reeks of desperation, and I'm starting to wonder if they're just trying to milk us for every penny.

But the real kicker is that they're talking about needing potential investors to get this game off the ground. What happened to the promises of crowdfunding and making this game for the fans? It feels like they're giving up and trying to find a shortcut to finish it.

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. This game had so much potential, and it's painful to watch it slip away due to poor management, lack of communication, and leadership that seems lost.

I'm angry, frustrated, and disappointed. I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way, and maybe if we voice our concerns, the team behind Pantheon will finally start listening. We deserve better than this!

[Rant Over]

Slapshot1188

Trust the Harbingers for unbiased outlooks on a game's prospects

Terazon

I am not at all frustrated because I never expected it to ever launch. 
MMORPGs are as finicky a video game genre as there ever has been. 
Who would want to invest in making these money pits in today's market?
By investment, I not only mean capitol, but also talent. 
What great developer talent would want to invest their precious time and skills in a genre as contemptuous as this one?
The vast majority of projects fail and those that launch have questionable monetization.  
The small-scale server mmo lites are great, the true potential has not been realized there yet.
Not to mention the real secret sauce, user generated content.
 

Geeky

Terazon said:

What great developer talent would want to invest their precious time and skills in a genre as contemptuous as this one?

This is such a good point, and such a sad reality that the genre faces.  Hopefully, out there lies some truly great talent that has an undying love for MMO's.

Slapshot1188

Geeky said:

Terazon said:

What great developer talent would want to invest their precious time and skills in a genre as contemptuous as this one?

This is such a good point, and such a sad reality that the genre faces.  Hopefully, out there lies some truly great talent that has an undying love for MMO's.

I would counter that Capital does in fact equal talent to a large degree.

Sure if it's a "passion project" it might be different, but I'd suspect that most folks just want a paycheck.  And if the check for the MMORPG cashes as well as the one for the mobile app they'd have no problem working on the MMORPG.

But the money, the capital, is flowing elsewhere.  And thus the talent follows.

Wargfoot

Geeky said:

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. 

Everyone here feels your pain.
Nicely written.

What bothers me, is why should someone work hard to stay optimistic?

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.
We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

Theocritus

Alot of us learned many years ago not to put too much hope into any MMORPGs...... Most of them are hype and flash and little substance.

Kyleran

Theocritus said:

Alot of us learned many years ago not to put too much hope into any MMORPGs...... Most of them are hype and flash and little substance.

MMORPGs...

kitarad

I am surprised delete hasn't made an appearance yet about this new development. He was putting all his hopes on this game too. Sad really this news about Pantheon. Just disappointing.

Adamantine

Meh.

I havent invested a single eurocent into Pantheon yet.

After all it sounds much more like a EverQuest successor than a Vanguard successor.

- Simple classes (like EQ, not like Vanguard)

- No massive gameworld

- No seamless world and no realistic viewing distances

- No flying mounts

- Lacking all of Vanguards signature classes (Blood Mage, Disciple, Dread Knight)

- Nothing like diplomacy either

Really all that remains is stuff like races cant be all classes. Which I never liked in Vanguard and which SOE had thankfully removed after a couple years. Also they blocked the class/race combo I wanted to play (Elf Paladin), despite that being a legal combo in both EG and VSoH.

So almost all that attracted me to Vanguard is gone, and almost all that made Vanguard unique is gone, and I'm not allowed to play the character I want to play. Awesome.

Thus I'll wait until release and only then check out if I think its worth it despite all of that.

Phaen

Wargfoot said:

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.

We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

Unfortunately we are forced to be optimistic and back stuff like this, because no Studio's are making MMO's like this on their own

All we are getting is Eastern MMO's, which have some redeeming features like flashy graphics, but don't have the gameplay of old.

Nithir

I feel ya OP. just what i thought when they showed the artstyle change.

Its like they forgot who backed and want to play the game, its not the WoW Crowd, and yet thats suddenly who they try to cater to?

Even WoW looks way better these days, its like they ran out of money, and decided to go with the easiest way out to keep working on the game, probably much easier to push out classes and itemization when it looks like it was made in 2000.

This was the one mmo i was trusting to finally make me like the genre again, but now its all lost. I need to see the new style in action with some classes before i outright dismiss it, but its not looking good.

Nilden

I get where you are coming from. I would love a spiritual successor combining EQ and Vanguard. Sadly Pantheon is not it. 

Your rant covered the key points. 

The writing on the wall might as well be in braille.

achesoma

Nithir said:

I feel ya OP. just what i thought when they showed the artstyle change.

Its like they forgot who backed and want to play the game, its not the WoW Crowd, and yet thats suddenly who they try to cater to?

Even WoW looks way better these days, its like they ran out of money, and decided to go with the easiest way out to keep working on the game, probably much easier to push out classes and itemization when it looks like it was made in 2000.

This was the one mmo i was trusting to finally make me like the genre again, but now its all lost. I need to see the new style in action with some classes before i outright dismiss it, but its not looking good.

Yeah, they don't care about the people that backed. That money is already spent. They need new money, hence the pivot. And people looking for classically inspired mmos are no longer pledging to Pantheon. At this point it wouldn't even surprise me if they try to rebrand and change the name.

Kyleran

Nilden said:

I get where you are coming from. I would love a spiritual successor combining EQ and Vanguard. Sadly Pantheon is not it. 

Your rant covered the key points. 

The writing on the wall might as well be in braille.

Well, it's been plastered on oversized billboards for many years now, so sure, post it in Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin and ancient Greek as well.

KnightFalz

Wargfoot said:

Geeky said:

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. 

Everyone here feels your pain.
Nicely written.

What bothers me, is why should someone work hard to stay optimistic?

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.
We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

There is a good chance any money so spent will be lost with nothing at all to show for it.

The best mindset for such is pessimism. Expect the project to fail. If you still wish to contribute despite that spend no more money on it than you are willing to lose as that is the most likely outcome.

Then if it succeeds you can be pleasantly surprised. If it fails your expectations will be met so you won't be disappointed.

Nanfoodle

Nilden said:

I get where you are coming from. I would love a spiritual successor combining EQ and Vanguard. Sadly Pantheon is not it. 

Your rant covered the key points. 

The writing on the wall might as well be in braille.

For many, they need a moment to process and rant. My guess, this will go on till we see VR close their doors from running out of funds. 

Wargfoot

KnightFalz said:

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

Just to be a devil's advocate:

Why should we contribute anything at all?   Why is it okay that game companies that have money (oddly enough) cannot figure out what we want but some guy in his garage with no funds knows the secret?

The whole thing is nonsense.

Nilden

KnightFalz said:

Wargfoot said:

Geeky said:

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. 

Everyone here feels your pain.
Nicely written.

What bothers me, is why should someone work hard to stay optimistic?

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.
We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

There is a good chance any money so spent will be lost with nothing at all to show for it.

The best mindset for such is pessimism. Expect the project to fail. If you still wish to contribute despite that spend no more money on it than you are willing to lose as that is the most likely outcome.

Then if it succeeds you can be pleasantly surprised. If it fails your expectations will be met so you won't be disappointed.

It's not just a succeed or fail though.

Like the OP pointed out with the art style change and the extraction game mode, both of those are not what people signed up for when they backed this.

I mean what a great sales pitch. Go in expecting it to be a failure, spend money on something you probably will never get to play, and even if you do it might not be what you were sold in the first place.

Is it any wonder why crowd funded games are going the way of the Dodo?

Eldrach

This game was doomed at the point where they ditched the unity engine. 

I don’t really like Unity - as it’s kind of limited, but they should’ve stayed with it even though it would’ve meant alot smaller zones and more loading screens. At that point in development - you can’t afford to change game engines.

They spent too much time on the swap, and it was much harder than they were willing to admit.

I’d be happy if they rolled out the zones in waves of a few months between as well, if that meant a steady cash flow for development.

Sorry Brad - your team dropped the ball upon your passing

Sovrath

KnightFalz said:

Wargfoot said:

Geeky said:

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. 

Everyone here feels your pain.
Nicely written.

What bothers me, is why should someone work hard to stay optimistic?

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.
We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

There is a good chance any money so spent will be lost with nothing at all to show for it.

The best mindset for such is pessimism. Expect the project to fail. If you still wish to contribute despite that spend no more money on it than you are willing to lose as that is the most likely outcome.

Then if it succeeds you can be pleasantly surprised. If it fails your expectations will be met so you won't be disappointed.

Any time I give to these things I go into it fully knowing it might not work out. It’s the only way to do it.

I’ve been fairly lucky so far other than the mmorpg’s.

KnightFalz

Wargfoot said:

KnightFalz said:

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

Just to be a devil's advocate:

Why should we contribute anything at all?   Why is it okay that game companies that have money (oddly enough) cannot figure out what we want but some guy in his garage with no funds knows the secret?

The whole thing is nonsense.

There is no should in regard to contribution. It is a choice people are free to make or not.

There is no we in what gamers want. It is a mythical uniformity that no game company can satisfy. The most one can hope for is to find a game that satisfies one's personal wants.

It isn't nonsense as many crowdfunded games are completed and some of them are well received by their intended audience. It can and has worked, just not quite so well for MMORPGs as of yet, especially for those with grand visions.

KnightFalz

Sovrath said:

KnightFalz said:

Wargfoot said:

Geeky said:

Look, I wanted to love Pantheon, and I still do, but the way things are going, it's hard to stay optimistic. 

Everyone here feels your pain.
Nicely written.

What bothers me, is why should someone work hard to stay optimistic?

This is why we keep getting fleeced, as a community, because we're optimistic.
We need to be more pragmatic, ditch the good vibes, and insist on proof - going forward, we should only be throwing money at companies that deliver.

I know you realize this, I'm just annoyed developers ever made me "optimistic".
Screw those guys.

It's not that people are being fleeced. It is that they are choosing to contribute to what may or not eventually be.

There is a good chance any money so spent will be lost with nothing at all to show for it.

The best mindset for such is pessimism. Expect the project to fail. If you still wish to contribute despite that spend no more money on it than you are willing to lose as that is the most likely outcome.

Then if it succeeds you can be pleasantly surprised. If it fails your expectations will be met so you won't be disappointed.

Any time I give to these things I go into it fully knowing it might not work out. It’s the only way to do it.

I’ve been fairly lucky so far other than the mmorpg’s.

It's the best way, anyway.

I think the problem with MMORPGs in particular is that the visions for them are just too grand for the most part.

Those that were crowdfunded and actually reached a state where they are available for play have been quite modest in comparison, being Project:Gorgon and Embers Adrift.

There appeal is equally modest to be sure but at least they actually made it out the gate (EA) or close to (P:G) and are in constant operation.

It seems the best chance for success with crowdfunded MMORPGs is when the plan is modest rather than monumental.