I bought this a long time ago but hardly played it but I did it to support them. I felt it had very good bones. Really sad about this.
It is sad, especially with the greater challenges they now face not resulting from any fault of their own but instead personal circumstances entirely beyond their control.
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
I bought this a long time ago but hardly played it but I did it to support them. I felt it had very good bones. Really sad about this.
It is sad, especially with the greater challenges they now face not resulting from any fault of their own but instead personal circumstances entirely beyond their control.
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
Pretty obvious anyone who thought they could deliver a full featured MMORPG on a low budget was greatly mistaken.
Funny thing is one didn't need to be a professional software developer to know this in advance, but so many of the "experts" swore they could do it.
Perhaps naivety but I'm not really buying except for the teams who started with no experience like Embers Adrift.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How can these people not see the ridiculously flawed systems and change them during testing, or in this games case 8 years of patches.
They don't see them so is why I expect, at least to the extent they feel these systems need be removed from the game.
If they did it would have been done over that time period.
Yes you are probably right that they dont see it as a problem.
They are completely blind to the obvious pain points. Devs need to figure out who they are making a game for, themselves or customers. Seems pretty obvious they should be making a game for a large enough player base to sustain it at least.
This game failed its customer base, because if it truely was a good game, it wouldnt be struggling to get a few customers to sustain it.
None of the mechanics holding this game back are even needed in the game at all. A small amount of really stupid ideas killed the game.
Inventory is an issue, but not like...... standard mmos.
My main issue, is... itemization?.. gear.
I dont see how this game has an itemization issue. There are cool items in the game with cool traits. If everyone got the best items then no items would be considered good.
Lets really get to the root of the problem. Why do you need better items? Is the game to hard? Oh thats right its because if you die in the game you lose all your stuff, start back at the beginning with all the mobs respawning AND you get some stupid curse.
So people are all afraid to die so they sit around and kill ez mobs all day and dont take on any challenging mobs due to the massive penalties that exist in the game.
So the real issues are: 1) losing all your stuff when you die 2) getting a stupid forever curse when you die 3) getting separated from your party AND put to the beginning of the dungeon with FULL respawns. 4) No way to teleport back to your party easily. 5) XP penalty for playing in Groups due to an unfair split.
Take all those out of the game, then you could actually have some fun trying to beat challenging mobs.
I bought this a long time ago but hardly played it but I did it to support them. I felt it had very good bones. Really sad about this.
It is sad, especially with the greater challenges they now face not resulting from any fault of their own but instead personal circumstances entirely beyond their control.
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
Pretty obvious anyone who thought they could deliver a full featured MMORPG on a low budget was greatly mistaken.
Funny thing is one didn't need to be a professional software developer to know this in advance, but so many of the "experts" swore they could do it.
Perhaps naivety but I'm not really buying except for the teams who started with no experience like Embers Adrift.
Going to disagree with you.
Think of it like this
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I bought this a long time ago but hardly played it but I did it to support them. I felt it had very good bones. Really sad about this.
It is sad, especially with the greater challenges they now face not resulting from any fault of their own but instead personal circumstances entirely beyond their control.
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
Pretty obvious anyone who thought they could deliver a full featured MMORPG on a low budget was greatly mistaken.
Funny thing is one didn't need to be a professional software developer to know this in advance, but so many of the "experts" swore they could do it.
Perhaps naivety but I'm not really buying except for the teams who started with no experience like Embers Adrift.
The issue is not necessarily the cost of development of the game itself, as when you are working for yourself and maybe even do it in your free time, like how many Indie developers work. See Stardew Valley for example. All made by a single person.
Theoretically, with the tools available today, with enough time, a team of two (like Project Gorgon) can develop a MMORPG and hey did come a long way though.
The problem, and where the real costs come and hit you, is when you start deploying the server infrastructure to host said MMORPG. That is simply cold hard cash you just have to pay! Every single month!
Yes, today you don't need your own data center anymore and almost all live service games and MMO's run in the Cloud these days ( AWS, Azure, Google ).
The challenge is vast complexity of setting up Account systems, integrate with payment systems and dealing with the whole security around this, then the Game servers itself that consists of Login servers, World servers, database backend, etc.
Even starting out very small and simple, with small player community, you still looking at easily 2000 dollars a month minimum in running costs. That has to come straight out of your own pocket, when you have little to no funding!
I think it's here where they simply just ran out of cash and with current economic hard times, they probably just cannot afford it anymore.
It also didn't help when they show arrogance and not listen to player feedback, which resulted in the sheer drop in player activity and them ending up in the situation they are in right now.
May 2021 (when they introduced Premium Subscriptions), my comment in a Steam discussion that I later made my Negative review for the game:
----- My comment from a discussion thread:
I've only played 10 hours. Had fun, but I really don't like EA games. I simply loved the game concept and wanted to support the idea.
Saw subscription service is now available on my Library feed, so looked over the info. I'm sad. Every MMO has an inventory pain point. Some minor. Some games it becomes major. Paying for inventory means the devs realize this is a pain point and players are willing to pay more money to fix the problem.
Rather than minimizing a problem and increasing fun/enjoyment, the devs are not fixing the problem. They are requiring more money to remove an inconvenience. And I'm out. A game selling subscription services while still in EA is a horrible idea. Reminds me way too much of ARK devs selling paid expansions while the actual game was still a buggy mess in EA.
I'm not subscribing to this thread so no need to argue with me and I'm not trying to be harsh; trying to provide constructive feedback while masking my disappointment. Maybe somewhere down the road, things will change and I will remember the game and check it out. Don't make this awkward... -----
The game was amazing in many ways, but its been on life support for ever, barely scraping by while hunting for whales. I hope they find a buyer that can complete the game and make it into something polished enough that players (including me!) will play.
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
No single person -- or even small team -- has all the skills required to make a decent MMO function. It's simply not possible. It literally cannot be done within a human lifetime.
If you had $100,000 and an immortality pill, you might eventually get there by investing the money wisely and spending the first three decades learning a LOT of different skills. But I'm still betting against you.
Wish this was F2P, i'd play it in a heartbeat. I think it would be good for the game's health
It used to be at one time back in its early development......I thought the game had some strengths but more weaknesses...It definitely is not worth the $40 they are asking for it now.
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
No single person -- or even small team -- has all the skills required to make a decent MMO function. It's simply not possible. It literally cannot be done within a human lifetime.
If you had $100,000 and an immortality pill, you might eventually get there by investing the money wisely and spending the first three decades learning a LOT of different skills. But I'm still betting against you.
Since I am not sure what all the skills are needed to make an MMO
Do you know what they are, and why a small team would not have them?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
No single person -- or even small team -- has all the skills required to make a decent MMO function. It's simply not possible. It literally cannot be done within a human lifetime.
If you had $100,000 and an immortality pill, you might eventually get there by investing the money wisely and spending the first three decades learning a LOT of different skills. But I'm still betting against you.
Since I am not sure what all the skills are needed to make an MMO
Do you know what they are, and why a small team would not have them?
I think it points more to specialization. some people concentrate on being artists, 3d art, animation, whatever it takes to create things like muzzle flashes or spell effects, etc. Some people are programmers. I imagine there are so many different programmers for things like working with network code, or figuring out animations and effects from different angles for different players with moving projectiles etc etc.
Some people also concentrate on creating environments come to think of it. Then there is audio.
Point is, I think there can absolutely be people who do all but I also know that more often than not they are better at certain things than others.
Not to mention the requirement of time to make things, test things, re-think things, etc.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
How can these people not see the ridiculously flawed systems and change them during testing, or in this games case 8 years of patches.
They don't see them so is why I expect, at least to the extent they feel these systems need be removed from the game.
If they did it would have been done over that time period.
And now the game is dead and they are out of cash.
It's one thing to stay true to your vision for a game, it's another to stay completely blind to the problems and refuse to admit mistakes you made.
Yes, because those were the only factors that could possibly have limited interest in the game so everything would have worked out differently if these few things changed.
Rubbish, plain and simple.
P:G is full of design elements that many wouldn't consider ideal. There are many things that could potentially drive away interest save for those particularly drawn to the unique elements of the game you simply can't get elsewhere.
As such, even if they changed those particular things there are many, many more that could dive most away regardless. It is a niche game by design, intended to have narrow appeal.
Their cash issue isn't due to their choices for the game. It was caused by unexpected extreme costs due to a medical issue that arose. The resources that now had to go to that would have been used to sustain the game while they finished developing it.
I bought this a long time ago but hardly played it but I did it to support them. I felt it had very good bones. Really sad about this.
It is sad, especially with the greater challenges they now face not resulting from any fault of their own but instead personal circumstances entirely beyond their control.
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
They didn't just have the amount raised from their crowd funding efforts, for one thing.
For another, they kept down costs by making decisions that most MMORPGs developers would not and keeping their operation small.
Despite their limited resources compared to some of their crowdfunded fellows, the game has been in constant commercial operation for years. They were doing fine in terms of the game itself.
Their current difficulties are due to unexpected extreme costs otherwise that they could not plan for.
How can these people not see the ridiculously flawed systems and change them during testing, or in this games case 8 years of patches.
They don't see them so is why I expect, at least to the extent they feel these systems need be removed from the game.
If they did it would have been done over that time period.
Yes you are probably right that they dont see it as a problem.
They are completely blind to the obvious pain points. Devs need to figure out who they are making a game for, themselves or customers. Seems pretty obvious they should be making a game for a large enough player base to sustain it at least.
This game failed its customer base, because if it truely was a good game, it wouldnt be struggling to get a few customers to sustain it.
None of the mechanics holding this game back are even needed in the game at all. A small amount of really stupid ideas killed the game.
Not seeing something as a problem isn't due to being blind. It is due to looking at something and not seeing it as a problem.
They know who they are making the game for. Players need to realize not every game is made for every player.
The game was sustaining until factors outside their control came to disturb that.
Nothing has failed as of yet. There is now the potential for failure due to the extreme outside factors that have destabilized their efforts for now.
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
They only want like $35 or $40 for the game and a sub is optional. I think any mmorpg vet worth their salt could squeeze that value out of a game before some potential demise.
There are some very cool things about PG. There are some very sucky things about PG. If the box fee is in the casual entertainment budget, then I'd cautiously recommend the experience. Maybe check some recent game play videos and make sure the graphics or any common game play aspects aren't an issue. It is a niche type of mmrpg, and I'm hesitant to recommend games to people anymore. I would say for mmrpg vets who liked AC or want a fairly unique and authentic experience, this is a good candidate.
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
No single person -- or even small team -- has all the skills required to make a decent MMO function. It's simply not possible. It literally cannot be done within a human lifetime.
If you had $100,000 and an immortality pill, you might eventually get there by investing the money wisely and spending the first three decades learning a LOT of different skills. But I'm still betting against you.
Since I am not sure what all the skills are needed to make an MMO
Do you know what they are, and why a small team would not have them?
I think it points more to specialization. some people concentrate on being artists, 3d art, animation, whatever it takes to create things like muzzle flashes or spell effects, etc. Some people are programmers. I imagine there are so many different programmers for things like working with network code, or figuring out animations and effects from different angles for different players with moving projectiles etc etc.
Some people also concentrate on creating environments come to think of it. Then there is audio.
Point is, I think there can absolutely be people who do all but I also know that more often than not they are better at certain things than others.
Not to mention the requirement of time to make things, test things, re-think things, etc.
They had some people contracted to work on some elements of the game and that helped out but efforts became slowed due to the illness itself and also that surrounding it such as appointments and treatments and the travel time limiting their personal contributions.
As that help has now had to be temporarily suspended and they themselves must focus elsewhere things have met a snag, hopefully only for awhile.
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
Every bit does, absolutely. Things are tenuous now but not yet at a critical state. There is time to affect the outcome in a positive way so that P:G can at least sustain operation. With that, hope can yet endure the game will be around to further develop when circumstances permit.
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
Every bit does, absolutely. Things are tenuous now but not yet at a critical state. There is time to affect the outcome in a positive way so that P:G can at least sustain operation. With that, hope can yet endure the game will be around to further develop when circumstances permit.
With optional sub only, barely 300 people left playing and no funding. There is no way they can sustain this. They won't have enough cash to keep the lights on (server infrastructure) and pay the bills each month.
If everyone of those 300 players pays a monthly sub, then they might barely able to keep it running. Barely. And according this article, clearly not many of those 300 are paying a sub, hence they are in deep trouble.
It's your money.... you can do what you want with it. At this point it would be like throwing 30-40 bucks in the fireplace. Will have the same effect.
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
They only want like $35 or $40 for the game and a sub is optional. I think any mmorpg vet worth their salt could squeeze that value out of a game before some potential demise.
Each time a AAA publisher drops their game with a box cost plus monthly sub these forums trash it as a money grab - unfettered capitalism, out of touch with players, etc.
Take a buggy, janky, niche game that is still VERY MUCH IN EARLY ACCESS (with box cost and sub) and has been limping along VERY slowly in development and now its cool?
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
They only want like $35 or $40 for the game and a sub is optional. I think any mmorpg vet worth their salt could squeeze that value out of a game before some potential demise.
Each time a AAA publisher drops their game with a box cost plus monthly sub these forums trash it as a money grab - unfettered capitalism, out of touch with players, etc.
Take a buggy, janky, niche game that is still VERY MUCH IN EARLY ACCESS (with box cost and sub) and has been limping along VERY slowly in development and now its cool?
What am I missing in the logic here?
Well, one thing you're missing is the context of the entire comment. You chose to cherry pick one thing out of context to make a pointlessly cringey antagonistic comment.
I'll just repeat what I said in the previous post because you obviously
didn't get it. There are thing in PG worth experiencing to an MMO gamer.
There are also some really horrible aspects to the game that drive
people away. I included that disclaimer.
I will say that this is one of the few indie mmos to even launch in some sort of working state and while this game is full of jank and eyerolls, it stands head and shoulders above the other indie shit that tries to pass itself off as an MMO.... The sagas of, the Embers of, Pantheon, and all the other dumpster fire scam jobs.
Payment models for AAA games and their value is a topic for another thread, so open one and discuss AAA game payment models there and try and stay on topic here, if you can.
I enjoyed the game quite a bit I hope they can continue development after the new rush of donations and such. I have a couple hundred hours in PG and like some other people said there are definitely downsides to the game but this incredibly small dev team managed to make a fairly competent fun oldschool MMO that has quite a bit of content you can do pretty much solo (minus bosses and some areas).
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
They only want like $35 or $40 for the game and a sub is optional. I think any mmorpg vet worth their salt could squeeze that value out of a game before some potential demise.
There are some very cool things about PG. There are some very sucky things about PG. If the box fee is in the casual entertainment budget, then I'd cautiously recommend the experience. Maybe check some recent game play videos and make sure the graphics or any common game play aspects aren't an issue. It is a niche type of mmrpg, and I'm hesitant to recommend games to people anymore. I would say for mmrpg vets who liked AC or want a fairly unique and authentic experience, this is a good candidate.
If this were 1998 I would say that is a great argument..>The problem in 2023 is that there are literally hundreds of other options.....We have so many games that are much cheaper at our disposal that for most of us the money is better spent elsewhere. To me, the game was never worth its pricetag...Its older school graphics and gameplay dont equal newer gen pricing. The problem is if you charge $10 for it, then you need 4 times the amount of players to make the same money.
I will say that this is one of the few indie mmos to even launch in some sort of working state and while this game is full of jank and eyerolls, it stands head and shoulders above the other indie shit that tries to pass itself off as an MMO.... The sagas of, the Embers of, Pantheon, and all the other dumpster fire scam jobs.
Yeah, the look over at that game is a bigger dumpster fire than this one agrument is not really flying for me. I agree with you that some other indie MMO's have also been bad or outright scams.
This game has around 300 people 2 years after its release. So clearly not many people think this game is good in its current form.
Sure there are people like me that like some pieces of this game, but the negatives are driving people away obviously.
So if you are the type of person that buys a lemon car because you like the paint job, good for you. I am opposite of that, I want the core systems to be solid. For this reason the game is struggling.
That's very cool that people are donating $$$ to them to keep the game going. I might buy the game to help out as well. Every little bit helps, right? Seriously.
They only want like $35 or $40 for the game and a sub is optional. I think any mmorpg vet worth their salt could squeeze that value out of a game before some potential demise.
Each time a AAA publisher drops their game with a box cost plus monthly sub these forums trash it as a money grab - unfettered capitalism, out of touch with players, etc.
Take a buggy, janky, niche game that is still VERY MUCH IN EARLY ACCESS (with box cost and sub) and has been limping along VERY slowly in development and now its cool?
What am I missing in the logic here?
That people sometimes root for the underdog, even when there's little chance they'll prevail.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
OK, let's be a little realistic about this. It is super-de-duper crazy to think you can build an MMO for such a tiny amount of money. It actually takes millions and millions of dollars. Anyone who states otherwise is either a con artist or very naive, or both. (I'm willing to believe "naive" in this case.)
So "not resulting from any fault of their own" is pretty inaccurate. No matter how good their design ideas were, this project was doomed to fail when they failed to recognize the realities of their funding needs.
Funny thing is one didn't need to be a professional software developer to know this in advance, but so many of the "experts" swore they could do it.
Perhaps naivety but I'm not really buying except for the teams who started with no experience like Embers Adrift.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They are completely blind to the obvious pain points. Devs need to figure out who they are making a game for, themselves or customers. Seems pretty obvious they should be making a game for a large enough player base to sustain it at least.
This game failed its customer base, because if it truely was a good game, it wouldnt be struggling to get a few customers to sustain it.
None of the mechanics holding this game back are even needed in the game at all. A small amount of really stupid ideas killed the game.
Lets really get to the root of the problem. Why do you need better items? Is the game to hard? Oh thats right its because if you die in the game you lose all your stuff, start back at the beginning with all the mobs respawning AND you get some stupid curse.
So people are all afraid to die so they sit around and kill ez mobs all day and dont take on any challenging mobs due to the massive penalties that exist in the game.
So the real issues are:
1) losing all your stuff when you die
2) getting a stupid forever curse when you die
3) getting separated from your party AND put to the beginning of the dungeon with FULL respawns.
4) No way to teleport back to your party easily.
5) XP penalty for playing in Groups due to an unfair split.
Take all those out of the game, then you could actually have some fun trying to beat challenging mobs.
Think of it like this
If you go to build a mansion, it will cost you a few million dollars, as well as dealing with contractors and sub contractors
However, if you decided to build the mansion yourself and don't care if it will take you 20 years to complete, you can make it on a shoe string budget
A lot of pro's think they can go the "Do it yourself" route and thus think they can bypass a lot of the costs
Sadly, this also results in a much longer time to develop, and often enough, not as well made, because they were not professionals in every field needed to get it built right.
Theoretically, with the tools available today, with enough time, a team of two (like Project Gorgon) can develop a MMORPG and hey did come a long way though.
The problem, and where the real costs come and hit you, is when you start deploying the server infrastructure to host said MMORPG. That is simply cold hard cash you just have to pay! Every single month!
Yes, today you don't need your own data center anymore and almost all live service games and MMO's run in the Cloud these days ( AWS, Azure, Google ).
The challenge is vast complexity of setting up Account systems, integrate with payment systems and dealing with the whole security around this, then the Game servers itself that consists of Login servers, World servers, database backend, etc.
Even starting out very small and simple, with small player community, you still looking at easily 2000 dollars a month minimum in running costs.
That has to come straight out of your own pocket, when you have little to no funding!
I think it's here where they simply just ran out of cash and with current economic hard times, they probably just cannot afford it anymore.
It also didn't help when they show arrogance and not listen to player feedback, which resulted in the sheer drop in player activity and them ending up in the situation they are in right now.
-----
My comment from a discussion thread:
I've only played 10 hours. Had fun, but I really don't like EA games. I simply loved the game concept and wanted to support the idea.
Saw subscription service is now available on my Library feed, so looked over the info. I'm sad. Every MMO has an inventory pain point. Some minor. Some games it becomes major. Paying for inventory means the devs realize this is a pain point and players are willing to pay more money to fix the problem.
Rather than minimizing a problem and increasing fun/enjoyment, the devs are not fixing the problem. They are requiring more money to remove an inconvenience. And I'm out. A game selling subscription services while still in EA is a horrible idea. Reminds me way too much of ARK devs selling paid expansions while the actual game was still a buggy mess in EA.
I'm not subscribing to this thread so no need to argue with me and I'm not trying to be harsh; trying to provide constructive feedback while masking my disappointment. Maybe somewhere down the road, things will change and I will remember the game and check it out. Don't make this awkward...
-----
The game was amazing in many ways, but its been on life support for ever, barely scraping by while hunting for whales. I hope they find a buyer that can complete the game and make it into something polished enough that players (including me!) will play.
It used to be at one time back in its early development......I thought the game had some strengths but more weaknesses...It definitely is not worth the $40 they are asking for it now.
Do you know what they are, and why a small team would not have them?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Rubbish, plain and simple.
P:G is full of design elements that many wouldn't consider ideal. There are many things that could potentially drive away interest save for those particularly drawn to the unique elements of the game you simply can't get elsewhere.
As such, even if they changed those particular things there are many, many more that could dive most away regardless. It is a niche game by design, intended to have narrow appeal.
Their cash issue isn't due to their choices for the game. It was caused by unexpected extreme costs due to a medical issue that arose. The resources that now had to go to that would have been used to sustain the game while they finished developing it.
They didn't just have the amount raised from their crowd funding efforts, for one thing.
For another, they kept down costs by making decisions that most MMORPGs developers would not and keeping their operation small.
Despite their limited resources compared to some of their crowdfunded fellows, the game has been in constant commercial operation for years. They were doing fine in terms of the game itself.
Their current difficulties are due to unexpected extreme costs otherwise that they could not plan for.
Not seeing something as a problem isn't due to being blind. It is due to looking at something and not seeing it as a problem.
They know who they are making the game for. Players need to realize not every game is made for every player.
The game was sustaining until factors outside their control came to disturb that.
Nothing has failed as of yet. There is now the potential for failure due to the extreme outside factors that have destabilized their efforts for now.
They had some people contracted to work on some elements of the game and that helped out but efforts became slowed due to the illness itself and also that surrounding it such as appointments and treatments and the travel time limiting their personal contributions.
As that help has now had to be temporarily suspended and they themselves must focus elsewhere things have met a snag, hopefully only for awhile.
Every bit does, absolutely. Things are tenuous now but not yet at a critical state. There is time to affect the outcome in a positive way so that P:G can at least sustain operation. With that, hope can yet endure the game will be around to further develop when circumstances permit.
With optional sub only, barely 300 people left playing and no funding.
There is no way they can sustain this. They won't have enough cash to keep the lights on (server infrastructure) and pay the bills each month.
If everyone of those 300 players pays a monthly sub, then they might barely able to keep it running. Barely.
And according this article, clearly not many of those 300 are paying a sub, hence they are in deep trouble.
It's your money.... you can do what you want with it. At this point it would be like throwing 30-40 bucks in the fireplace. Will have the same effect.
Take a buggy, janky, niche game that is still VERY MUCH IN EARLY ACCESS (with box cost and sub) and has been limping along VERY slowly in development and now its cool?
What am I missing in the logic here?
If this were 1998 I would say that is a great argument..>The problem in 2023 is that there are literally hundreds of other options.....We have so many games that are much cheaper at our disposal that for most of us the money is better spent elsewhere. To me, the game was never worth its pricetag...Its older school graphics and gameplay dont equal newer gen pricing. The problem is if you charge $10 for it, then you need 4 times the amount of players to make the same money.
Yeah, the look over at that game is a bigger dumpster fire than this one agrument is not really flying for me. I agree with you that some other indie MMO's have also been bad or outright scams.
This game has around 300 people 2 years after its release. So clearly not many people think this game is good in its current form.
Sure there are people like me that like some pieces of this game, but the negatives are driving people away obviously.
So if you are the type of person that buys a lemon car because you like the paint job, good for you. I am opposite of that, I want the core systems to be solid. For this reason the game is struggling.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon