No sir, I am not shilling. I am merely debating how to gain the attention of an entitled generation of game developers and children who have ruined the gaming industry. I lean towards being a pro-crypto gaming enthusiast, but only if the gamer doesn't have to invest in the currency. The only investment being time played. The gamer should still have to pay for the game on a store shelf. I enjoy wasting my time wisely.
How does a money making and mostly losing mechanism improve anything about a game? What does this form of gambling have to do with gaming ethos at all?
How is it gambling if the player is getting paid to run raids, teach people to play the game, learn how to code, craft mods, run a business, and so much more? If advertisers monetize the game, like put advertisements in game, the game company gets paid. If the game company offers players an in-game currency to do tasks, that is in the form of a crypto, it's a win/win and everyone gets paid. This also makes the developer work harder at trying to win advertising contracts and keep them. It creates competition for everyone involved. It also cuts down on pump and dump FPS franchise copycats. It creates as the investors would say, long term investments.
Because Crypto is gambling 'per se'. It does not depend on how the crypto is being used, it is a gambling endeavor and should have no place in gaming.
If you think taking part in any crypto exercise is "win-win and everyone gets paid" you need to hold onto your shirt my forum poster friend or you may lose it.
Where is the spirit of Bcbully, I would have thought this Mekhere would have conjured him up by now.
As in any gambling operation, it is impossible for everyone to win. In order for someone to win, somebody else has to lose.
In poker and horse-racing, you are betting against other players. You can't win any money unless someone else loses.
In table games like craps and blackjack, you are playing against the house. If you win anything, it is because the house lost it. The house always has a percentage advantage in every game, so you cannot win in the long run.
No computer gaming company is going to pay you to play, where would the money come from? Obviously the money is coming from other players.
No sir, I am not shilling. I am merely debating how to gain the attention of an entitled generation of game developers and children who have ruined the gaming industry. I lean towards being a pro-crypto gaming enthusiast, but only if the gamer doesn't have to invest in the currency. The only investment being time played. The gamer should still have to pay for the game on a store shelf. I enjoy wasting my time wisely.
How does a money making and mostly losing mechanism improve anything about a game? What does this form of gambling have to do with gaming ethos at all?
How is it gambling if the player is getting paid to run raids, teach people to play the game, learn how to code, craft mods, run a business, and so much more? If advertisers monetize the game, like put advertisements in game, the game company gets paid. If the game company offers players an in-game currency to do tasks, that is in the form of a crypto, it's a win/win and everyone gets paid. This also makes the developer work harder at trying to win advertising contracts and keep them. It creates competition for everyone involved. It also cuts down on pump and dump FPS franchise copycats. It creates as the investors would say, long term investments.
Because Crypto is gambling 'per se'. It does not depend on how the crypto is being used, it is a gambling endeavor and should have no place in gaming.
If you think taking part in any crypto exercise is "win-win and everyone gets paid" you need to hold onto your shirt my forum poster friend or you may lose it.
Where is the spirit of Bcbully, I would have thought this Mekhere would have conjured him up by now.
As in any gambling operation, it is impossible for everyone to win. In order for someone to win, somebody else has to lose.
In poker and horse-racing, you are betting against other players. You can't win any money unless someone else loses.
In table games like craps and blackjack, you are playing against the house. If you win anything, it is because the house lost it. The house always has a percentage advantage in every game, so you cannot win in the long run.
No computer gaming company is going to pay you to play, where would the money come from? Obviously the money is coming from other players.
This doesn't make sense. How does the money come from another player? If you pool the money you get from your base players and invest it, you can pay anyone you want if you get enough money back per quarter. So, are you trying to say that like a bank, if I deposit money, I can only loan someone money and then circulate the supply until the game crashes because no one will take out loans to buy crafted goods at the auction houses? I'm causing my own depression in a sense because I caused a recession in my own game. Please explain what you mean when you say, "money comes from other players."
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Gaming is gambling. The very heart of gaming is built on gambling. Its roots go back very far. Listen, I have been cruising discord servers pretty heavy the last couple years and a lot of the, let's say, customers who invest, have been having these discussions about game development and crypto. It's all they talk about. There are inspired artists who are lost and looking for purpose, I guess. All they talk about is how to re-engineer time wasted. They don't want to let one minute of their day go without being paid. I can't go into any more detail here in these forums for obvious reasons, but that's the discussions happening outside this realm. I was really curious how people felt about it. What their reaction would be. I'm willing to lose my shirt. Experience has taught anyone in gaming that losing one's shirt can turn the tide in any fight. It's the effort you put forth into the shock and awe of losing your shirt. I'm a positive poster and tend to believe things will always work out. I still have faith, one day, this concept could work. I don't know BcBully. Are you referring to the Bully Scholarship game from years ago? It is the beginning of a bull market. Maybe he'll make an appearance at least once. Let's hope he does real soon.
Gaming is not gambling, that is just a concept pushed by those who want to push ever more gambling into gaming. The roots of gaming are it's ethos which is built on a fair playing field.
I can well believe there are many gamers out there who think their time is being wasted while playing without getting paid. I do not look forward to them playing a crypto game and realising they have been taken for a ride, but that is what will happen to most of them. As you have said you have not played much in the way of crypto gaming, can you see how your fervor is for an idea not a reality?
BCBully is an old poster who had the crypto fever like you do. He was always a PvP man, something we agreed on but then he went so heavily into the wonders of crypto it was like a religious conversion. I hope he still has his shirt.
How do I have crypto fever? I have mentioned crypto in a couple of threads but never made any threads of my own about it. I admitted I was playing around with the idea if crypto gaming. I wanted to talk about the mechanics of it. Not incite a fever among the realms. I get pounced on and accused of being some money zealot and I do not think that is fair. I respect other posters and deserve the same respect back.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
No sir, I am not shilling. I am merely debating how to gain the attention of an entitled generation of game developers and children who have ruined the gaming industry. I lean towards being a pro-crypto gaming enthusiast, but only if the gamer doesn't have to invest in the currency. The only investment being time played. The gamer should still have to pay for the game on a store shelf. I enjoy wasting my time wisely.
How does a money making and mostly losing mechanism improve anything about a game? What does this form of gambling have to do with gaming ethos at all?
How is it gambling if the player is getting paid to run raids, teach people to play the game, learn how to code, craft mods, run a business, and so much more? If advertisers monetize the game, like put advertisements in game, the game company gets paid. If the game company offers players an in-game currency to do tasks, that is in the form of a crypto, it's a win/win and everyone gets paid. This also makes the developer work harder at trying to win advertising contracts and keep them. It creates competition for everyone involved. It also cuts down on pump and dump FPS franchise copycats. It creates as the investors would say, long term investments.
Because Crypto is gambling 'per se'. It does not depend on how the crypto is being used, it is a gambling endeavor and should have no place in gaming.
If you think taking part in any crypto exercise is "win-win and everyone gets paid" you need to hold onto your shirt my forum poster friend or you may lose it.
Where is the spirit of Bcbully, I would have thought this Mekhere would have conjured him up by now.
As in any gambling operation, it is impossible for everyone to win. In order for someone to win, somebody else has to lose.
In poker and horse-racing, you are betting against other players. You can't win any money unless someone else loses.
In table games like craps and blackjack, you are playing against the house. If you win anything, it is because the house lost it. The house always has a percentage advantage in every game, so you cannot win in the long run.
No computer gaming company is going to pay you to play, where would the money come from? Obviously the money is coming from other players.
This doesn't make sense. How does the money come from another player? If you pool the money you get from your base players and invest it, you can pay anyone you want if you get enough money back per quarter. So, are you trying to say that like a bank, if I deposit money, I can only loan someone money and then circulate the supply until the game crashes because no one will take out loans to buy crafted goods at the auction houses? I'm causing my own depression in a sense because I caused a recession in my own game. Please explain what you mean when you say, "money comes from other players."
You are either doing some impressive trolling or you are one of the most daft people on the interweb. Your posts scream the latter but I will leave the door open for you to surprise me.
How are you going to convince an entire generation of kids who are used to getting paid to waste their time, to waste their time for free?
If a game is fun to play, that's enough of a reason to play it. And if it's not fun to play, then there's no sense in trying to find some other reason to get people to play it.
You capitalist wizards are all cynical. You hate when easy money is to easily gained.
No dodging my question now...I repeat:
"Simple question, do you now play (or have ever played) a crypto currency, NFT selling, "block chain" game where the primary hook is on player "ownership" and potential resale of in game assets?"
Maybe for like 2 days. It was way back, like 5 years ago. It was that space/fantasy mmo right before NFTs happened. I hated it.
OK, then I'll retract my accusations, you were just arguing in favor of why devs should consider more ways to reward players besides just the gameplay itself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How are you going to convince an entire generation of kids who are used to getting paid to waste their time, to waste their time for free?
If a game is fun to play, that's enough of a reason to play it. And if it's not fun to play, then there's no sense in trying to find some other reason to get people to play it.
You capitalist wizards are all cynical. You hate when easy money is to easily gained.
No, what I hate is when someone promises easy money, but that money won't actually materialize if you pursue it.
No sir, I am not shilling. I am merely debating how to gain the attention of an entitled generation of game developers and children who have ruined the gaming industry. I lean towards being a pro-crypto gaming enthusiast, but only if the gamer doesn't have to invest in the currency. The only investment being time played. The gamer should still have to pay for the game on a store shelf. I enjoy wasting my time wisely.
How does a money making and mostly losing mechanism improve anything about a game? What does this form of gambling have to do with gaming ethos at all?
How is it gambling if the player is getting paid to run raids, teach people to play the game, learn how to code, craft mods, run a business, and so much more? If advertisers monetize the game, like put advertisements in game, the game company gets paid. If the game company offers players an in-game currency to do tasks, that is in the form of a crypto, it's a win/win and everyone gets paid. This also makes the developer work harder at trying to win advertising contracts and keep them. It creates competition for everyone involved. It also cuts down on pump and dump FPS franchise copycats. It creates as the investors would say, long term investments.
Because Crypto is gambling 'per se'. It does not depend on how the crypto is being used, it is a gambling endeavor and should have no place in gaming.
If you think taking part in any crypto exercise is "win-win and everyone gets paid" you need to hold onto your shirt my forum poster friend or you may lose it.
Where is the spirit of Bcbully, I would have thought this Mekhere would have conjured him up by now.
As in any gambling operation, it is impossible for everyone to win. In order for someone to win, somebody else has to lose.
In poker and horse-racing, you are betting against other players. You can't win any money unless someone else loses.
In table games like craps and blackjack, you are playing against the house. If you win anything, it is because the house lost it. The house always has a percentage advantage in every game, so you cannot win in the long run.
No computer gaming company is going to pay you to play, where would the money come from? Obviously the money is coming from other players.
This doesn't make sense. How does the money come from another player? If you pool the money you get from your base players and invest it, you can pay anyone you want if you get enough money back per quarter. So, are you trying to say that like a bank, if I deposit money, I can only loan someone money and then circulate the supply until the game crashes because no one will take out loans to buy crafted goods at the auction houses? I'm causing my own depression in a sense because I caused a recession in my own game. Please explain what you mean when you say, "money comes from other players."
First off, you have to collect the money from the "base players" whatever that means. Then you invest it and hope to make more than a few percent of interest. That is speculation, what if the investment doesn't pay off?
A bank won't pay you even 5% interest in a year, so if I as a player put in $50, I might make $2.50 in a year. You intend to pay another player $2.50 for playing for a year?
What you described is a case where people have to put money up front (the money *has* to come from other players as I said before), and then "invest" it. If you invest in crypto, that is pure speculation. If you invest in a bank, as you said, you won't make enough to pay players more than a quarter a month to play.
No sir, I am not shilling. I am merely debating how to gain the attention of an entitled generation of game developers and children who have ruined the gaming industry. I lean towards being a pro-crypto gaming enthusiast, but only if the gamer doesn't have to invest in the currency. The only investment being time played. The gamer should still have to pay for the game on a store shelf. I enjoy wasting my time wisely.
How does a money making and mostly losing mechanism improve anything about a game? What does this form of gambling have to do with gaming ethos at all?
How is it gambling if the player is getting paid to run raids, teach people to play the game, learn how to code, craft mods, run a business, and so much more? If advertisers monetize the game, like put advertisements in game, the game company gets paid. If the game company offers players an in-game currency to do tasks, that is in the form of a crypto, it's a win/win and everyone gets paid. This also makes the developer work harder at trying to win advertising contracts and keep them. It creates competition for everyone involved. It also cuts down on pump and dump FPS franchise copycats. It creates as the investors would say, long term investments.
Because Crypto is gambling 'per se'. It does not depend on how the crypto is being used, it is a gambling endeavor and should have no place in gaming.
If you think taking part in any crypto exercise is "win-win and everyone gets paid" you need to hold onto your shirt my forum poster friend or you may lose it.
Where is the spirit of Bcbully, I would have thought this Mekhere would have conjured him up by now.
As in any gambling operation, it is impossible for everyone to win. In order for someone to win, somebody else has to lose.
In poker and horse-racing, you are betting against other players. You can't win any money unless someone else loses.
In table games like craps and blackjack, you are playing against the house. If you win anything, it is because the house lost it. The house always has a percentage advantage in every game, so you cannot win in the long run.
No computer gaming company is going to pay you to play, where would the money come from? Obviously the money is coming from other players.
This doesn't make sense. How does the money come from another player? If you pool the money you get from your base players and invest it, you can pay anyone you want if you get enough money back per quarter. So, are you trying to say that like a bank, if I deposit money, I can only loan someone money and then circulate the supply until the game crashes because no one will take out loans to buy crafted goods at the auction houses? I'm causing my own depression in a sense because I caused a recession in my own game. Please explain what you mean when you say, "money comes from other players."
First off, you have to collect the money from the "base players" whatever that means. Then you invest it and hope to make more than a few percent of interest. That is speculation, what if the investment doesn't pay off?
A bank won't pay you even 5% interest in a year, so if I as a player put in $50, I might make $2.50 in a year. You intend to pay another player $2.50 for playing for a year?
What you described is a case where people have to put money up front (the money *has* to come from other players as I said before), and then "invest" it. If you invest in crypto, that is pure speculation. If you invest in a bank, as you said, you won't make enough to pay players more than a quarter a month to play.
Base players = subscriptions. So 60mill players a month * 15 a month = 900,000,000 a month. If you buy Activision stock at 95 dollars a share and get a 1.03% dividend return on a 600,000,000 investment, you get $1,928,282,539.18 after a 20-year investment. If you rinse and repeat over and over again, you get 38.5656508 billion after 20 years. So, yes, your subscribers pay for it, but in the long run they don't. The original game pays players to play the game. I never said invest players money into crypto. I just said invest. I was referring to the stock market. Create a blockchain or a token that costs like 1.47 to make and then let the players create an economy where they have to work in it. Their profession is a job, and they have to go to work. They can take that token and cash it out or trade it for usdc and then the tokens go back into the central realms bank vault. The supply is limited to how much people work in game. I was just having fun with my thoughts.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Not sure what nonsense I actually read acting like it should be easy or something.
First you need to develop a game which takes countless hours paying your entire dev team as well as paying for all the tools the game needs. Its not as if you can make a good game off of free tools and not pay your devs. For that you need a significant amount of money before you even begin and who's going to front those millions needed for your dev ream and the tools. Noone wants to invest unless they see solid potential of a return of their investment and those with the money don't care about the game itself but about the profits only. Take $5 million from me to make your game I want my investment doubled within 5 years at bare minimum.
Now you have a completed game. You need hardware to run your servers as well as the bandwidth to support your hopeful amount of players as well as the tech staff to maintain everything 24/7. You need a billing and a support team to handle your ingame, out of game, and billing issues. You still aren't a LIVE game yet at this point so you need even more money to launch the game.
Now you think your ready but guess what, noone knows about your game so you need a marketing strategy for advertising and raising awareness of your game. This is extremely expensive actually a few streamers won't cut it even because again you aren't even launched yet to being an active game. You need everyone to know about your game and know about it to want to spend money to purchase your game and sign up probably paying a subscription assuming you want a good game and not a P2W gatcha piece of crap. Maybe in the future you may go to a F2P model of some sort but you can't do that so far in the hole.
After all that we can't forget you actually need a GOOD game that isn't just a clone themepark that will die off in 3-6 months hoping to keep going on life support. You need to address the concerns and interests of core gamers and not focus on the casual flip flop gamers. This means your game needs a slow but steady pace as well as a relevant journey to it rather then rush to mindless endgame. You need decent graphics because lets be honest, very few want to play a game with 20--30 year old dated graphics. You need a strong socialization pressure in your game because the thing that keeps people playing the most is solid friendships and that is what most core gamers want while the casuals are a poor investment. With this you need to also find a system that makes pushes ingame communication rather then outside communication like discord as well as a system that makes it very hard to do outside guides, tutorials, and walkthroughs because that trivializes any content you do making it super rushed and removing any difficulty (this is the very tough part).
Now your game is ready to launch more or less but then comes a whole slew of new costs.
The only thing you mentioned that is actually difficult, is finding a dev team that understands what customers want and make a great game.
All the rest is just blah blah blah, every business has challenges, funding, good ideas and implementation is what is needed to succeed.
Nothing you said is difficult to accomplish. Its especially not difficult if you already have the funding like a AAA company.
Marketing, thats almost completely unneeded in todays world if you have a good game. Good video games go viral. Your marketing budget is essentially the amount steam/epic will charge. Any AAA studio will have an explosive (initially) game even if its just halfway decent.
Streamers, and advertising (other than an initial demo/video of your game) is for games that suck but still want high volume. Good games will eventually capture a HUGE audience at release.
How do I have crypto fever? I have mentioned crypto in a couple of threads but never made any threads of my own about it. I admitted I was playing around with the idea if crypto gaming. I wanted to talk about the mechanics of it. Not incite a fever among the realms. I get pounced on and accused of being some money zealot and I do not think that is fair. I respect other posters and deserve the same respect back.
If we seem to have rounded on you, it is just that so many of us have looked into this and come away with negative impressions. I hear what you are saying about not even really dipping your toe in yet yourself, you have not got the fever.
I did a lot of research into crypto in gaming when this became a thing, countless articles and videos telling us of the benefits of blockchain. But not one crypto game yet exists with any of these imagined benefits to my knowledge. What we do have is half finished crypto games, ones which are pure gambling games and others which have shut down.
This will take of though and when it does all those people you talk to on Discord will be putting money in. And when for most of them it comes crashing down on their heads who will they blame, not themselves that's for sure.
I shudder to think about a development team like the one on Awaken Online. Them deciding on how to best use what players want and to design a tool to accomplish it. How they worded the instruction to the AI was lazy but then there wouldn't be a story I guess.
Not sure what nonsense I actually read acting like it should be easy or something.
First you need to develop a game which takes countless hours paying your entire dev team as well as paying for all the tools the game needs. Its not as if you can make a good game off of free tools and not pay your devs. For that you need a significant amount of money before you even begin and who's going to front those millions needed for your dev ream and the tools. Noone wants to invest unless they see solid potential of a return of their investment and those with the money don't care about the game itself but about the profits only. Take $5 million from me to make your game I want my investment doubled within 5 years at bare minimum.
Now you have a completed game. You need hardware to run your servers as well as the bandwidth to support your hopeful amount of players as well as the tech staff to maintain everything 24/7. You need a billing and a support team to handle your ingame, out of game, and billing issues. You still aren't a LIVE game yet at this point so you need even more money to launch the game.
Now you think your ready but guess what, noone knows about your game so you need a marketing strategy for advertising and raising awareness of your game. This is extremely expensive actually a few streamers won't cut it even because again you aren't even launched yet to being an active game. You need everyone to know about your game and know about it to want to spend money to purchase your game and sign up probably paying a subscription assuming you want a good game and not a P2W gatcha piece of crap. Maybe in the future you may go to a F2P model of some sort but you can't do that so far in the hole.
After all that we can't forget you actually need a GOOD game that isn't just a clone themepark that will die off in 3-6 months hoping to keep going on life support. You need to address the concerns and interests of core gamers and not focus on the casual flip flop gamers. This means your game needs a slow but steady pace as well as a relevant journey to it rather then rush to mindless endgame. You need decent graphics because lets be honest, very few want to play a game with 20--30 year old dated graphics. You need a strong socialization pressure in your game because the thing that keeps people playing the most is solid friendships and that is what most core gamers want while the casuals are a poor investment. With this you need to also find a system that makes pushes ingame communication rather then outside communication like discord as well as a system that makes it very hard to do outside guides, tutorials, and walkthroughs because that trivializes any content you do making it super rushed and removing any difficulty (this is the very tough part).
Now your game is ready to launch more or less but then comes a whole slew of new costs.
The only thing you mentioned that is actually difficult, is finding a dev team that understands what customers want and make a great game.
All the rest is just blah blah blah, every business has challenges, funding, good ideas and implementation is what is needed to succeed.
Nothing you said is difficult to accomplish. Its especially not difficult if you already have the funding like a AAA company.
Marketing, thats almost completely unneeded in todays world if you have a good game. Good video games go viral. Your marketing budget is essentially the amount steam/epic will charge. Any AAA studio will have an explosive (initially) game even if its just halfway decent.
Streamers, and advertising (other than an initial demo/video of your game) is for games that suck but still want high volume. Good games will eventually capture a HUGE audience at release.
Everything you are downplaying is all rather difficult, running a successful endevour of any type usually is.
Far more business ventures fail than succeed, especially over the long term.
This from Investopedia
" 20% of new businesses fail during the first two years of being open, 45% during the first five years, and 65% during the first 10 years"
In the creative or entertainment industries I imagine the failure rates could be higher.
Look at Disney's Marvel franchise, once a licence to print big money, but as of late most of their movies have been tanking for "reasons."
You say, "make a good MMORPG and they will come."
I say developers don't have a magic formula to create a great game, but they certainly have a good idea how to market and monetize a pretty average one and make a profit.
I mean, just look at every new MMORPG made since about 2005, all in the "mostly average" category, at least in my book.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only thing you mentioned that is actually difficult, is finding a dev team that understands what customers want and make a great game.
All the rest is just blah blah blah, every business has challenges, funding, good ideas and implementation is what is needed to succeed.
Nothing you said is difficult to accomplish. Its especially not difficult if you already have the funding like a AAA company.
Marketing, thats almost completely unneeded in todays world if you have a good game. Good video games go viral. Your marketing budget is essentially the amount steam/epic will charge. Any AAA studio will have an explosive (initially) game even if its just halfway decent.
Streamers, and advertising (other than an initial demo/video of your game) is for games that suck but still want high volume. Good games will eventually capture a HUGE audience at release.
And you want them to pull this off every 2 years? To make Stand alone games.
See the only reason why GW2 was as successful and not looked up as a hot trash cash grab was because it was a totally different game then GW1 and thus they justified making it it's own stand alone game because of that
This is also why all the people crying to reskinned old games won't get them, because simply put, if you are not going to make something new, something with hooks and ability to pull players in, you are not going to make anything worth buying.
Honestly, this is why I said before, We don't need New MMO's we need better people at the helm of our existing ones.
What you are proposing is just making the same kind of game, again and again, and while that can and does work to some degree for Single Player games, because what is selling the game is the Single Player Story Experience, that feeling of beating the game, even with this players get burn out over time, and unless there is noticeable advancements, players will not buy the same game twice, and will instead simply look for an update or add-on.
Great Example of this would be Darkest Dungeon, the first one was for the most part a Cult Classic, selling 16 Million Copies, and I think everyone was talking about it, meanwhile #2, that some people are not even aware exists, did a respectful 300k, it was vastly forgettable. One of the biggest things that hurt it was because it was not improved upon enough to justify the 2 in the line, it simply did not put enough on the table to be its own game and a DLC might have sold better all things said and done. Meanwhile a #3 has been said to be in the works, I think it's going to be vaporware, because AFIK, it again was not a significant update from the previous game to justify it's own standalone setting.
So, unless there is a viable reason for a new series to be put out that is just more of the same hot garbage, a prime example of this would be something like Madden Football, which follows the Football seasons, it simply put, doesn't work.
Your idea to make standalone games, that's going to be a super hard sell in the MMO market. I legit have no idea how you expect to pull that off every two years
That's not even an easy sell in the Single Player Game market, which is why companies have turned to DLC's and Updates to their games as opposed to trying to keep pumping out new games.
a Great example of this would be Among Us. They just put out new maps, skins, and mechanics, and players buy that crap right up.
If they made an Among Us 2, I wager it would need to be something along the lines of Unfortunate Spaceman, to justify making a whole new game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The really good salesmen I have seen all know that to make a sale you first have to show the customer why they need to buy your product. Show them they have a problem, and you have the solution.
Gaming is entertainment, so that isn't the main motivation for gaming sales. You have to get the customer to want to experience what you are selling. In gaming terms, this means having a good game that people enjoy and will pay for.
What the industry has moved to though is a combination of both. Our game is fun and you want to play it, but to avoid the grind (which you might not enjoy as much), you can opt to pay instead. Pay to not have to play.
Of course, if they make the grind too unappetizing, then the game isn't fun enough anymore. For crypto games, they mostly aren't fun enough to succeed on their own so the lure of gambling is used to make them more fun.
The idea that the gaming company would pay the customer to play the game, based on some kind of monetization scheme, seems to be about the same: you're dangling the possibility of financial reward to replace the not-very-fun gameplay.
Everything you are downplaying is all rather difficult, running a successful endevour of any type usually is.
Far more business ventures fail than succeed, especially over the long term.
The failure rate isnt because of the complexity. In fact many of the best products were made from people doing that early in the process. People that create successfully first are usually the most successful companies. Not alot of people catching up from behind. Usually completely new products by completely new people are what innovates.
The failure rate is coming from either bad ideas and bad implementation of those ideas or lack of funding. If you have these core things, then the rest can generally be solved.
Other reasons based on manpower, technology, complexity, environment, lack of knowledge of the industry, lack of staff, bad environment, timing, support team, billing issues, maintenance, and all the other irrelevant reasons. If you have enough funding you can overcome all the side reasons.
If you have Good ideas, good implementation, and good funding, you can overcome any gap.
Movies fail because of bad writing, bad directing, which is essentially bad ideas and bad implementation.
And you want them to pull this off every 2 years? To make Stand alone games.
See the only reason why GW2 was as successful and not looked up as a hot trash cash grab was because it was a totally different game then GW1 and thus they justified making it it's own stand alone game because of that
This is also why all the people crying to reskinned old games won't get them, because simply put, if you are not going to make something new, something with hooks and ability to pull players in, you are not going to make anything worth buying.
Honestly, this is why I said before, We don't need New MMO's we need better people at the helm of our existing ones.
What you are proposing is just making the same kind of game, again and again, and while that can and does work to some degree for Single Player games, because what is selling the game is the Single Player Story Experience, that feeling of beating the game, even with this players get burn out over time, and unless there is noticeable advancements, players will not buy the same game twice, and will instead simply look for an update or add-on.
Great Example of this would be Darkest Dungeon, the first one was for the most part a Cult Classic, selling 16 Million Copies, and I think everyone was talking about it, meanwhile #2, that some people are not even aware exists, did a respectful 300k, it was vastly forgettable. One of the biggest things that hurt it was because it was not improved upon enough to justify the 2 in the line, it simply did not put enough on the table to be its own game and a DLC might have sold better all things said and done. Meanwhile a #3 has been said to be in the works, I think it's going to be vaporware, because AFIK, it again was not a significant update from the previous game to justify it's own standalone setting.
So, unless there is a viable reason for a new series to be put out that is just more of the same hot garbage, a prime example of this would be something like Madden Football, which follows the Football seasons, it simply put, doesn't work.
Your idea to make standalone games, that's going to be a super hard sell in the MMO market. I legit have no idea how you expect to pull that off every two years
That's not even an easy sell in the Single Player Game market, which is why companies have turned to DLC's and Updates to their games as opposed to trying to keep pumping out new games.
a Great example of this would be Among Us. They just put out new maps, skins, and mechanics, and players buy that crap right up.
If they made an Among Us 2, I wager it would need to be something along the lines of Unfortunate Spaceman, to justify making a whole new game.
Well first off, its not just single player games that are doing this. Many multiplayer games are releasing sequels and some of the best selling games of all time have done this.
Its not a big leap from a multiplayer game to a massively multiplayer game. Persistent world and more simultaneous players pretty much qualifies.
I think there is a place for DLC's. But most players quit a game and never go back. Many standalone sequals or similiar new version will draw huge numbers.
Most DLC's are just really shallow content that they can put out for a quick cashgrab. I understand why they do that, even though they might only get a small percent of their customer base to buy it, its still very easy to do.
If a company makes a deep DLC, with lots of content, they are wasting their dev time, because they would have made way more selling it as a new version.
If you want the big numbers, you are going to have to release a new game, its a very simple concept.
The only thing you mentioned that is actually difficult, is finding a dev team that understands what customers want and make a great game.
All the rest is just blah blah blah, every business has challenges, funding, good ideas and implementation is what is needed to succeed.
Nothing you said is difficult to accomplish. Its especially not difficult if you already have the funding like a AAA company.
Marketing, thats almost completely unneeded in todays world if you have a good game. Good video games go viral. Your marketing budget is essentially the amount steam/epic will charge. Any AAA studio will have an explosive (initially) game even if its just halfway decent.
Streamers, and advertising (other than an initial demo/video of your game) is for games that suck but still want high volume. Good games will eventually capture a HUGE audience at release.
And you want them to pull this off every 2 years? To make Stand alone games.
See the only reason why GW2 was as successful and not looked up as a hot trash cash grab was because it was a totally different game then GW1 and thus they justified making it it's own stand alone game because of that
This is also why all the people crying to reskinned old games won't get them, because simply put, if you are not going to make something new, something with hooks and ability to pull players in, you are not going to make anything worth buying.
Honestly, this is why I said before, We don't need New MMO's we need better people at the helm of our existing ones.
What you are proposing is just making the same kind of game, again and again, and while that can and does work to some degree for Single Player games, because what is selling the game is the Single Player Story Experience, that feeling of beating the game, even with this players get burn out over time, and unless there is noticeable advancements, players will not buy the same game twice, and will instead simply look for an update or add-on.
Great Example of this would be Darkest Dungeon, the first one was for the most part a Cult Classic, selling 16 Million Copies, and I think everyone was talking about it, meanwhile #2, that some people are not even aware exists, did a respectful 300k, it was vastly forgettable. One of the biggest things that hurt it was because it was not improved upon enough to justify the 2 in the line, it simply did not put enough on the table to be its own game and a DLC might have sold better all things said and done. Meanwhile a #3 has been said to be in the works, I think it's going to be vaporware, because AFIK, it again was not a significant update from the previous game to justify it's own standalone setting.
So, unless there is a viable reason for a new series to be put out that is just more of the same hot garbage, a prime example of this would be something like Madden Football, which follows the Football seasons, it simply put, doesn't work.
Your idea to make standalone games, that's going to be a super hard sell in the MMO market. I legit have no idea how you expect to pull that off every two years
That's not even an easy sell in the Single Player Game market, which is why companies have turned to DLC's and Updates to their games as opposed to trying to keep pumping out new games.
a Great example of this would be Among Us. They just put out new maps, skins, and mechanics, and players buy that crap right up.
If they made an Among Us 2, I wager it would need to be something along the lines of Unfortunate Spaceman, to justify making a whole new game.
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The really good salesmen I have seen all know that to make a sale you first have to show the customer why they need to buy your product. Show them they have a problem, and you have the solution.
Gaming is entertainment, so that isn't the main motivation for gaming sales. You have to get the customer to want to experience what you are selling. In gaming terms, this means having a good game that people enjoy and will pay for.
What the industry has moved to though is a combination of both. Our game is fun and you want to play it, but to avoid the grind (which you might not enjoy as much), you can opt to pay instead. Pay to not have to play.
Of course, if they make the grind too unappetizing, then the game isn't fun enough anymore. For crypto games, they mostly aren't fun enough to succeed on their own so the lure of gambling is used to make them more fun.
The idea that the gaming company would pay the customer to play the game, based on some kind of monetization scheme, seems to be about the same: you're dangling the possibility of financial reward to replace the not-very-fun gameplay.
Olepi stated, " but to avoid the grind (which you might not enjoy as much), you can opt to pay instead. Pay to not have to play."
This has been the issue with gaming since day one. To make money in the gaming industry you have to cater to casual gamers. What do they not have enough of? Time. What do they have the most of? Money. Casual players get bored quickly. They need to socialize in game or some kind of incentive to stay. They go where their friends go. In a way, if you pay them to play, they won't leave. The grind exists to teach you to master the learning curve. Without it, you'll never learn to play. How do you make a learning curve fun? The only solution thus far, is friends. When you pay someone to learn a curve, they usually grin and master it. They don't give up like they have for the last 20 years. As a developer, if you offer custom problems to be solved, and the right incentives, you'll be able to teach a whole generation how to be smarter people. Isn't that what problem solving is really all about?
If you are creating a blockchain for players to use, those players can only earn tokens from doing quests or tasks. The supply is based on how many people play and earn. There sold back to the block chain and absorbed back into a pool of liquidity where you can yield farm. Point out where gambling ever took place, because it didn't.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
How do I have crypto fever? I have mentioned crypto in a couple of threads but never made any threads of my own about it. I admitted I was playing around with the idea if crypto gaming. I wanted to talk about the mechanics of it. Not incite a fever among the realms. I get pounced on and accused of being some money zealot and I do not think that is fair. I respect other posters and deserve the same respect back.
If we seem to have rounded on you, it is just that so many of us have looked into this and come away with negative impressions. I hear what you are saying about not even really dipping your toe in yet yourself, you have not got the fever.
I did a lot of research into crypto in gaming when this became a thing, countless articles and videos telling us of the benefits of blockchain. But not one crypto game yet exists with any of these imagined benefits to my knowledge. What we do have is half finished crypto games, ones which are pure gambling games and others which have shut down.
This will take of though and when it does all those people you talk to on Discord will be putting money in. And when for most of them it comes crashing down on their heads who will they blame, not themselves that's for sure.
You are in the Christmas spirit. You made a shirt reference and now a round reference. You sir are in the mood for cookies and spirits. You should visit EQ2. There hosting Frost Fell right now, and you should go on a house tour to see all the new holiday decorations. Maybe you could enter the Norathian Home Show for the holidays?
Crypto is being adopted by Americas auction house on WallStreet. It is here to stay. The mentalists and elves have even filed for ETF's. I too thought it was a horrible idea at first. The developers don't feel the need to want to work anymore. The half ass everything. I feel bad for them because it's not really their fault. It's the investors that took their passion away. AI will be the developer to finish what they started and implement a pay for playing genre. It's only a matter of time.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units 2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units 2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k 1998 Fallout 2 - 600k 2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units 2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto II 1999: 2 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002): 17.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004): 27.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008): 25 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2013): 160 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
You are in the Christmas spirit. You made a shirt reference and now a round reference. You sir are in the mood for cookies and spirits. You should visit EQ2. There hosting Frost Fell right now, and you should go on a house tour to see all the new holiday decorations. Maybe you could enter the Norathian Home Show for the holidays?
Crypto is being adopted by Americas auction house on WallStreet. It is here to stay. The mentalists and elves have even filed for ETF's. I too thought it was a horrible idea at first. The developers don't feel the need to want to work anymore. The half ass everything. I feel bad for them because it's not really their fault. It's the investors that took their passion away. AI will be the developer to finish what they started and implement a pay for playing genre. It's only a matter of time.
I don't think crypto is going to spectacularly fail and disappear, because it has failed big time on more than one occasion and it keeps coming back. Peoples 'get rich quick' thinking never goes away and there are always going to be more to leap onto the imaginary gravy train.
Yes, Wallstreet, banks and indeed nations will adopt crypto, but that does not mean for individuals it is safe and can be used without question. I am sure you have heard this about stocks and shares "Past performance is not indicative of future results".
There are individuals and organizations making huge amounts of money out of speculation on all sorts of assets. That does not mean you will be able to.
I should point out I am not advising against any interaction with crypto, just pointing out you can lose your shirt and monetary schemes add nothing to gaming ethos, in fact they are very detrimental to it.
So in the Christmas spirit of your post I say "Bah, Humbug!" to crypto.
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units 2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units 2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k 1998 Fallout 2 - 600k 2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units 2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto II 1999: 2 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002): 17.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004): 27.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008): 25 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2013): 160 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
I love these examples, as I was just about to ask you for this exact kind of info.
I notice these all seem to be single player games, do you have any multiplayer platform games, most notable online multiplayer games, that showed these kinds of marked improvements over the series?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units 2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units 2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k 1998 Fallout 2 - 600k 2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units 2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto II 1999: 2 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002): 17.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004): 27.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008): 25 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2013): 160 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
In your examples the interval between releases steadily increases. My guess is each successive version costs significantly more to make as developers are pressed to make the next iteration more robust.
As franchises gain in popularity / revenues it's only natural for management / investors to pour increasingly more money into their development for the next iteration....for single player games....
Online games might follow the same pattern, longer development times, more sales / profit, certainly franchises such as shooters have proven resilient.
But for MMOS, and in particular MMORPGs we haven't seen similar really, at least not with any great consistency.
Oh, and before sharing any more sales numbers please be sure to include a link to their source.
Not saying you are making stuff up, but your sources might be.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units 2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units 2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k 1998 Fallout 2 - 600k 2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units 2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto II 1999: 2 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002): 17.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004): 27.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008): 25 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2013): 160 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
In your examples the interval between releases steadily increases. My guess is each successive version costs significantly more to make as developers are pressed to make the next iteration more robust.
Or it could George R R Martin syndrome!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Look at the gap between Grand Theft Auto 5 and 6, Elder scrolls was what,vlije 10 years ago, and where the hell is Fallout 5?
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units 2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units 2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k 1998 Fallout 2 - 600k 2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units 2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto II 1999: 2 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002): 17.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004): 27.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto IV (2008): 25 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2013): 160 million copies sold. Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
In your examples the interval between releases steadily increases. My guess is each successive version costs significantly more to make as developers are pressed to make the next iteration more robust.
As franchises gain in popularity / revenues it's only natural for management / investors to pour increasingly more money into their development for the next iteration....for single player games....
Online games might follow the same pattern, longer development times, more sales / profit, certainly franchises such as shooters have proven resilient.
But for MMOS, and in particular MMORPGs we haven't seen similar really, at least not with any great consistency.
Oh, and before sharing any more sales numbers please be sure to include a link to their source.
Not saying you are making stuff up, but your sources might be.
Yes I agree with the intervals, I think its because they lost alot of talent and have not invested in content, rather they figured its more profitable to just make nothing and live off sales of their franchises. Which essentially is pure profit.
I dont know which method produces more total profit though. But investing zero, is probably less risky.
However if GTA6 makes $8 billion which I think is a high estimate. Then that will probably be more than almost all the MMO's in the last decade combined.
Its hard to imagine not being able to have enough money to hire teams to put out content every few years when your revenue is $8 billion. Even if you paid devs $150k each you could hire 30k employees per game and still have $3-4 billion to spare. I doubt any AAA company has anywhere close to 30k devs on 1 game.
Comments
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
If you buy Activision stock at 95 dollars a share and get a 1.03% dividend return on a 600,000,000 investment, you get $1,928,282,539.18 after a 20-year investment. If you rinse and repeat over and over again, you get 38.5656508 billion after 20 years. So, yes, your subscribers pay for it, but in the long run they don't. The original game pays players to play the game.
I never said invest players money into crypto. I just said invest. I was referring to the stock market.
Create a blockchain or a token that costs like 1.47 to make and then let the players create an economy where they have to work in it. Their profession is a job, and they have to go to work. They can take that token and cash it out or trade it for usdc and then the tokens go back into the central realms bank vault. The supply is limited to how much people work in game.
I was just having fun with my thoughts.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
All the rest is just blah blah blah, every business has challenges, funding, good ideas and implementation is what is needed to succeed.
Nothing you said is difficult to accomplish. Its especially not difficult if you already have the funding like a AAA company.
Marketing, thats almost completely unneeded in todays world if you have a good game. Good video games go viral. Your marketing budget is essentially the amount steam/epic will charge. Any AAA studio will have an explosive (initially) game even if its just halfway decent.
Streamers, and advertising (other than an initial demo/video of your game) is for games that suck but still want high volume. Good games will eventually capture a HUGE audience at release.
If we seem to have rounded on you, it is just that so many of us have looked into this and come away with negative impressions. I hear what you are saying about not even really dipping your toe in yet yourself, you have not got the fever.
I did a lot of research into crypto in gaming when this became a thing, countless articles and videos telling us of the benefits of blockchain. But not one crypto game yet exists with any of these imagined benefits to my knowledge. What we do have is half finished crypto games, ones which are pure gambling games and others which have shut down.
This will take of though and when it does all those people you talk to on Discord will be putting money in. And when for most of them it comes crashing down on their heads who will they blame, not themselves that's for sure.
Far more business ventures fail than succeed, especially over the long term.
This from Investopedia
" 20% of new businesses fail during the first two years of being open, 45% during the first five years, and 65% during the first 10 years"
In the creative or entertainment industries I imagine the failure rates could be higher.
Look at Disney's Marvel franchise, once a licence to print big money, but as of late most of their movies have been tanking for "reasons."
You say, "make a good MMORPG and they will come."
I say developers don't have a magic formula to create a great game, but they certainly have a good idea how to market and monetize a pretty average one and make a profit.
I mean, just look at every new MMORPG made since about 2005, all in the "mostly average" category, at least in my book.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
See the only reason why GW2 was as successful and not looked up as a hot trash cash grab was because it was a totally different game then GW1 and thus they justified making it it's own stand alone game because of that
This is also why all the people crying to reskinned old games won't get them, because simply put, if you are not going to make something new, something with hooks and ability to pull players in, you are not going to make anything worth buying.
Honestly, this is why I said before, We don't need New MMO's we need better people at the helm of our existing ones.
What you are proposing is just making the same kind of game, again and again, and while that can and does work to some degree for Single Player games, because what is selling the game is the Single Player Story Experience, that feeling of beating the game, even with this players get burn out over time, and unless there is noticeable advancements, players will not buy the same game twice, and will instead simply look for an update or add-on.
Great Example of this would be Darkest Dungeon, the first one was for the most part a Cult Classic, selling 16 Million Copies, and I think everyone was talking about it, meanwhile #2, that some people are not even aware exists, did a respectful 300k, it was vastly forgettable. One of the biggest things that hurt it was because it was not improved upon enough to justify the 2 in the line, it simply did not put enough on the table to be its own game and a DLC might have sold better all things said and done. Meanwhile a #3 has been said to be in the works, I think it's going to be vaporware, because AFIK, it again was not a significant update from the previous game to justify it's own standalone setting.
So, unless there is a viable reason for a new series to be put out that is just more of the same hot garbage, a prime example of this would be something like Madden Football, which follows the Football seasons, it simply put, doesn't work.
Your idea to make standalone games, that's going to be a super hard sell in the MMO market. I legit have no idea how you expect to pull that off every two years
That's not even an easy sell in the Single Player Game market, which is why companies have turned to DLC's and Updates to their games as opposed to trying to keep pumping out new games.
a Great example of this would be Among Us. They just put out new maps, skins, and mechanics, and players buy that crap right up.
If they made an Among Us 2, I wager it would need to be something along the lines of Unfortunate Spaceman, to justify making a whole new game.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
The failure rate isnt because of the complexity. In fact many of the best products were made from people doing that early in the process. People that create successfully first are usually the most successful companies. Not alot of people catching up from behind. Usually completely new products by completely new people are what innovates.
The failure rate is coming from either bad ideas and bad implementation of those ideas or lack of funding. If you have these core things, then the rest can generally be solved.
Other reasons based on manpower, technology, complexity, environment, lack of knowledge of the industry, lack of staff, bad environment, timing, support team, billing issues, maintenance, and all the other irrelevant reasons. If you have enough funding you can overcome all the side reasons.
If you have Good ideas, good implementation, and good funding, you can overcome any gap.
Movies fail because of bad writing, bad directing, which is essentially bad ideas and bad implementation.
Its not a big leap from a multiplayer game to a massively multiplayer game. Persistent world and more simultaneous players pretty much qualifies.
I think there is a place for DLC's. But most players quit a game and never go back. Many standalone sequals or similiar new version will draw huge numbers.
Most DLC's are just really shallow content that they can put out for a quick cashgrab. I understand why they do that, even though they might only get a small percent of their customer base to buy it, its still very easy to do.
If a company makes a deep DLC, with lots of content, they are wasting their dev time, because they would have made way more selling it as a new version.
If you want the big numbers, you are going to have to release a new game, its a very simple concept.
Clearly 2 year cycles are not the industry norm even in the single player space, Witcher 4 anyone?
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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This has been the issue with gaming since day one. To make money in the gaming industry you have to cater to casual gamers. What do they not have enough of? Time. What do they have the most of? Money. Casual players get bored quickly. They need to socialize in game or some kind of incentive to stay. They go where their friends go. In a way, if you pay them to play, they won't leave.
The grind exists to teach you to master the learning curve. Without it, you'll never learn to play. How do you make a learning curve fun? The only solution thus far, is friends. When you pay someone to learn a curve, they usually grin and master it. They don't give up like they have for the last 20 years.
As a developer, if you offer custom problems to be solved, and the right incentives, you'll be able to teach a whole generation how to be smarter people. Isn't that what problem solving is really all about?
If you are creating a blockchain for players to use, those players can only earn tokens from doing quests or tasks. The supply is based on how many people play and earn. There sold back to the block chain and absorbed back into a pool of liquidity where you can yield farm. Point out where gambling ever took place, because it didn't.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Crypto is being adopted by Americas auction house on WallStreet. It is here to stay. The mentalists and elves have even filed for ETF's. I too thought it was a horrible idea at first. The developers don't feel the need to want to work anymore. The half ass everything. I feel bad for them because it's not really their fault. It's the investors that took their passion away. AI will be the developer to finish what they started and implement a pay for playing genre. It's only a matter of time.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
2007 The Witcher - 1 mllion units
2011 The Witcher 2 - 3.5 million units
2015 The Witcher 3 - 50mil units
1997 Fallout - 280k
1998 Fallout 2 - 600k
2008 Fallout 3 - 12 million units
2015 Fallout 4 - 15 million units
Grand Theft Auto I 1997: 3 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto III (2001): 14.5 million copies sold.
Grand Theft Auto V (2025): 38million copies sold so far pre-sales Expected $3-8 billion 1st year, which is $1-7 billion more than GTA 5 1st year sales.
The 2 year number is just an abitrary number, I am more pointing out that regular releases over time can have huge sales increases.
Additionally even if you have un unpopular version, it doesnt have to be a franchise killer, you can just change directions and release a better version next time, players will forgive, if you make a good game.
GTA is an example, GTA 2 looks unpopular but GTA 3 course correct it just 2 years later.
Yes, Wallstreet, banks and indeed nations will adopt crypto, but that does not mean for individuals it is safe and can be used without question. I am sure you have heard this about stocks and shares "Past performance is not indicative of future results".
There are individuals and organizations making huge amounts of money out of speculation on all sorts of assets. That does not mean you will be able to.
I should point out I am not advising against any interaction with crypto, just pointing out you can lose your shirt and monetary schemes add nothing to gaming ethos, in fact they are very detrimental to it.
So in the Christmas spirit of your post I say "Bah, Humbug!" to crypto.
I notice these all seem to be single player games, do you have any multiplayer platform games, most notable online multiplayer games, that showed these kinds of marked improvements over the series?
As franchises gain in popularity / revenues it's only natural for management / investors to pour increasingly more money into their development for the next iteration....for single player games....
Online games might follow the same pattern, longer development times, more sales / profit, certainly franchises such as shooters have proven resilient.
But for MMOS, and in particular MMORPGs we haven't seen similar really, at least not with any great consistency.
Oh, and before sharing any more sales numbers please be sure to include a link to their source.
Not saying you are making stuff up, but your sources might be.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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I dont know which method produces more total profit though. But investing zero, is probably less risky.
However if GTA6 makes $8 billion which I think is a high estimate. Then that will probably be more than almost all the MMO's in the last decade combined.
Its hard to imagine not being able to have enough money to hire teams to put out content every few years when your revenue is $8 billion. Even if you paid devs $150k each you could hire 30k employees per game and still have $3-4 billion to spare. I doubt any AAA company has anywhere close to 30k devs on 1 game.