Why no new Ultimas?

Slapshot1188

I'm not even talking about Ultima Online.  But the actual Ultima CRPG series.  These were landmark games in the history of PC Gaming, and yet it's been 25 years since we got the abomination that was Ultima IX.   

I know Garriott had a nasty breakup and got to keep his Lord British character, but wouldn't it be a great time to get an Ultima game on the market?  Maybe toss Garriott a consulting credit or let him outline the story.  It seems so strange to let this property languish.  

I assume the rights are still with EA...

Tiller

Slapshot1188 said:

I'm not even talking about Ultima Online.  But the actual Ultima CRPG series.  These were landmark games in the history of PC Gaming, and yet it's been 25 years since we got the abomination that was Ultima IX.   

I know Garriott had a nasty breakup and got to keep his Lord British character, but wouldn't it be a great time to get an Ultima game on the market?  Maybe toss Garriott a consulting credit or let him outline the story.  It seems so strange to let this property languish.  

I assume the rights are still with EA...

I'm willing to bet your assumptions are correct as to the reasons why no new Ultima games. Been a few discussion about this topic on Reddit and they all came to the same conclusion as you. EA won't, Garriot can't, neither will work together, the franchise is in hospice.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1blh5yk/is_ultima_a_dead_franchise_at_this_point/

Wargfoot

I've all the same questions about this series.
Sounds everyone involved did an amazing job of killing it.

DigDuggy

One of the industry's great mysteries.

The_Korrigan

I agree, we need more Ultimas. But real ones.

mcrippins

Once he became a space cadet it was never the same. Such a shame. One of my favorite series.

Arglebargle

Got a couple of avenues with old timers to ask this Ultima question.  Will see if anyone has the inside skinny.

Herithius

I still remember my heartbreak when UO2 got cancelled in 2001-2002…

Slapshot1188

Arglebargle said:

Got a couple of avenues with old timers to ask this Ultima question.  Will see if anyone has the inside skinny.

Cool.  I’m just shocked that they would let the IP waste away when we seem to be in a bit of a nostalgic period.

DigDuggy

Slapshot1188 said:

Arglebargle said:

Got a couple of avenues with old timers to ask this Ultima question.  Will see if anyone has the inside skinny.

Cool.  I’m just shocked that they would let the IP waste away when we seem to be in a bit of a nostalgic period.

My guess is that there are a lot of background players(VIPs)  who can't agree how to advance the IP.   With as many veteran players who see Ultima as the last best game, they will want to be careful.  Too careful to the point of  inertia.

Arglebargle

Slapshot1188 said:

Arglebargle said:

Got a couple of avenues with old timers to ask this Ultima question.  Will see if anyone has the inside skinny.

Cool.  I’m just shocked that they would let the IP waste away when we seem to be in a bit of a nostalgic period.

Word so far was that it was all on the EA camp, as they owned the Ultima IP (But not the Lord British avatar).  Seems foolish to ignore it, but it was EA....

Now that Microsoft is in the driver's seat, it should be a greater possibility.  If they think it would have the legs to justify producing it.

Scot

Was not SotA supposed to be some form of follow up? I know it languished, but it is out there.

Kyleran

I can think of a few other series which could do for a fresh take, Might and Magic, including the Heroes of series, perhaps Wizardry, wouldn't mind seeing Werdna return once more.

Slapshot1188

Scot said:

Was not SotA supposed to be some form of follow up? I know it languished, but it is out there.

SotA was a “Spiritual Successor “ to Ultima Online by Garriott.  

I’m really thinking more about the CRPG Ultimas.  The old Ultima 1-9 series. BG3 has proven there is a big market for games like this.

Arglebargle

Slapshot1188 said:

Scot said:

Was not SotA supposed to be some form of follow up? I know it languished, but it is out there.

SotA was a “Spiritual Successor “ to Ultima Online by Garriott.  

I’m really thinking more about the CRPG Ultimas.  The old Ultima 1-9 series. BG3 has proven there is a big market for games like this.

Maybe MS will see the value in pursuing this. 

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

Scot said:

Was not SotA supposed to be some form of follow up? I know it languished, but it is out there.

SotA was a “Spiritual Successor “ to Ultima Online by Garriott.  

I’m really thinking more about the CRPG Ultimas.  The old Ultima 1-9 series. BG3 has proven there is a big market for games like this.

Those were classic, I will never forget being asked by a gypsy fortune teller questions which determined my Virtues and other factors. That was revolutionary, I went on to incorporate that idea into a Rolemaster campaign.

Thing is, you do realise we would likely get a new game with the Ultima name on the tin and something very modern inside, for good and ill?

kitarad

Arglebargle said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Arglebargle said:

Got a couple of avenues with old timers to ask this Ultima question.  Will see if anyone has the inside skinny.

Cool.  I’m just shocked that they would let the IP waste away when we seem to be in a bit of a nostalgic period.

Word so far was that it was all on the EA camp, as they owned the Ultima IP (But not the Lord British avatar).  Seems foolish to ignore it, but it was EA....

Now that Microsoft is in the driver's seat, it should be a greater possibility.  If they think it would have the legs to justify producing it.

The rights are with EA so how does Microsoft come in exactly?

Akulas

I actually didn't mind Ultima IX except don't save while poisoned. Can't see why a modernized X wouldn't work.

Kyleran

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

Tiller

Kyleran said:

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

Yeah, it's a dead franchise for older gamers, kinda like Beyond Good and Evil which was started and stopped like 3 times now.

ValdemarJ

Kyleran said:

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

You nailed in my opinion. MMRPGs were always niche, and still are. The only one players  outside the genre can reliably name is WoW.

The same thing is happening with EQ, DAoC, an host of other half popular IPs. Soon, they won't be worth remaking and won't be inspiring any spiritual successors (which is a blessing in disguise because they've all been horrible).

Slapshot1188

Kind of like Baldur's Gate 3 came out 23 years after BG2?

I would say that Ultima has at least, if not more, awareness than Baldur's Gate did.


But who knows, maybe you are right, after all they have NOT made a new Ultima game...

Slapshot1188

ValdemarJ said:

Kyleran said:

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

You nailed in my opinion. MMRPGs were always niche, and still are. The only one players  outside the genre can reliably name is WoW.

The same thing is happening with EQ, DAoC, an host of other half popular IPs. Soon, they won't be worth remaking and won't be inspiring any spiritual successors (which is a blessing in disguise because they've all been horrible).

I disagree.  I just played through Solasta and really enjoyed it.  I also very much enjoyed BG3.  Last I heard, BG3 had sold over 10 million copies.  No, that isn't Call of Duty numbers, but it's still a big number.

ValdemarJ

Slapshot1188 said:

Kind of like Baldur's Gate 3 came out 23 years after BG2?

I would say that Ultima has at least, if not more, awareness than Baldur's Gate did.


But who knows, maybe you are right, after all they have NOT made a new Ultima game...

I would take that bet. D&D is hugely popular globally and the Forgotten Realms is well know as their major setting. Baldur's Gate has been in PnP campaigns with people who have never played BG1 and BG2, and the location is mentioned in passing in other D&D games.

People might have seen BG3 and thought, I didn't know there was a BG1 and 2, but they more than likely were familiar with an iconic town in the Forgotten Realms. Ultima doesn't have that going for them in my opinion.

Dark Age is already at that point as well. No one knows or cares about it. Everquest is in a slightly better position, but I don't give them 5 more years unless there is some classic MMRPG resurgence where lots of kids want to play grandpa's retro game.

ValdemarJ

Slapshot1188 said:

ValdemarJ said:

Kyleran said:

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

You nailed in my opinion. MMRPGs were always niche, and still are. The only one players  outside the genre can reliably name is WoW.

The same thing is happening with EQ, DAoC, an host of other half popular IPs. Soon, they won't be worth remaking and won't be inspiring any spiritual successors (which is a blessing in disguise because they've all been horrible).

I disagree.  I just played through Solasta and really enjoyed it.  I also very much enjoyed BG3.  Last I heard, BG3 had sold over 10 million copies.  No, that isn't Call of Duty numbers, but it's still a big number.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing though. Solasta and BG3 are based on D&D, which is still a huge well know IP. D&D players are constantly clamoring for more computer games with their favorite themes. I think a new Dragonlance D&D game could be a big hit. MMRPG IPs are what I'm talking about losing their identity interest. Those are fading quickly.

A studio could release "Curse of the Azure Bonds" and a lot of people wouldn't likely know there was an SSI Gold Box game of the same name, but it might still be massively popular because it's D&D set in the Forgotten Realms.

btw I think Solasta is a very good game too, and the dungeon maker with community content and modding is rad.

Kyleran

ValdemarJ said:

Slapshot1188 said:

ValdemarJ said:

Kyleran said:

I recall a story once which said Richard G. believed that the reason SotA wasn't selling was due to a lack of marketing, believing if people only knew this game existed they would flock to it.

I don't think the Ultima name holds much sway in the larger gaming community these days.

I'm sure my 30 something son and his friends would stare blankly if the name Ultima was brought up unless it included Rick and Morty in the title.

Even my 3 friends in my static, all over 60 would not know what this was about as they don't "follow" games and never have played any of the Ultimas.

Even at EA I'll bet theres not that many people that worked on or remember much about the Ultimas, but RG's failure with SotA will not have gone unnoticed in the boardroom.

No, they'll just keep investing in well worn franchises like FIFA or Madden and sit on the Ultima IP for eternity most likely.

You nailed in my opinion. MMRPGs were always niche, and still are. The only one players  outside the genre can reliably name is WoW.

The same thing is happening with EQ, DAoC, an host of other half popular IPs. Soon, they won't be worth remaking and won't be inspiring any spiritual successors (which is a blessing in disguise because they've all been horrible).

I disagree.  I just played through Solasta and really enjoyed it.  I also very much enjoyed BG3.  Last I heard, BG3 had sold over 10 million copies.  No, that isn't Call of Duty numbers, but it's still a big number.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing though. Solasta and BG3 are based on D&D, which is still a huge well know IP. D&D players are constantly clamoring for more computer games with their favorite themes. I think a new Dragonlance D&D game could be a big hit. MMRPG IPs are what I'm talking about losing their identity interest. Those are fading quickly.

A studio could release "Curse of the Azure Bonds" and a lot of people wouldn't likely know there was an SSI Gold Box game of the same name, but it might still be massively popular because it's D&D set in the Forgotten Realms.

btw I think Solasta is a very good game too, and the dungeon maker with community content and modding is rad.

Great point, both my son and my friends are well aware of the D&D franchise, having seen movies, or even from friends who went off to play BG3 last fall.

My son does know Hogwarts because Harry Potter was big in his youth, but my older friends will be unlikely to ever have heard of the game even though they've either read the books and or seen the movie.

Guess what comes up in Google if you search on Ultima? (Hint: not a game related film)

Bless Me, Ultima https://g.co/kgs/MW2PoY2