I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
People care far too much about their pixels
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
There was quite a bit of that, really tough guys who ended up switching over to the PvE planet because they were getting the crap beat out of them by sheriffs. One of them ended up trying to kill me in PvE land by luring MOBs, which shows the sort of player he was - worthless.
I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
People care far too much about their pixels
While true in one sense (deaths in game really don't matter) in another sense some pixels can represent a great deal of time and effort.
So if you logged into your bank account and the pixels said Balance: $0.00 and you called the bank, could they tell you that you care too much about pixels?
I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
People care far too much about their pixels
While true in one sense (deaths in game really don't matter) in another sense some pixels can represent a great deal of time and effort.
So if you logged into your bank account and the pixels said Balance: $0.00 and you called the bank, could they tell you that you care too much about pixels?
In that case Im not actually caring about the pixels but the cash those numbers display. Those pixels have no value.
I play a game to have fun. When someone takes my pieces in Chess it's part of the game. When someone takes my territory in RISK it's part of the game. When I play a game with PvP... losing the pixels is part of the game and the risk factor that makes that type of game appealing.
I've been looted more times than I could ever count. I've lost houses, ships, towns, cities, armor, weapons... and never considered it any way other than when I lost Kamchatka in Risk. Yes, it messed up my plans. Yes it caused me to lose what I was working for. YES its part of the game. Do I like to win? Sure, but I just like PLAYING. It seems many find "winning" as a necessary criteria to have fun.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
...I think the problem here is that people SAID they wanted one thing, but then bailed out.
Yep, people always SAY they want to play PvP in games but in practice they often don't, or if they do they quickly abandon it. It happens a lot in games. PvP servers become full of crickets and tumbleweeds and games that barely featured PvE, if at all, suddenly realise the big money is in the PvE players and hastily cobble on lots of PvE in the hopes of stopping the game being a financial disaster. Devs never learn.
I'm not surprised this game is going in a different direction as when I tried it very early on I very quickly realised it was mediocre at best and wouldn't do well.
I see well I can understand now that you have explained it but I skimmed through Reddit and it also mentioned the PvP players leaving because of the stiff penalties of being evil. So from there I gleaned that it was a combination of PvP and PvE players leaving over the severity of the punishment for being red or existence of being looted that tipped this game.
I feel games always make a mistake of trying to mix PvE and PvP players and can never satisfy either camp. Albion online seems to have the formula down though so there is hope.
Many of the PvP players that left over the penalties were the UO '98 wannabes that were griefers. Let me be clear: Many that left were first class assholes - who hunted in noob areas and got ganked themselves by sheriffs. They literally couldn't take the PvP they've been claiming for years they wanted.
We had some really cool reds that stayed behind though, and they didn't have much issue with the ruleset. Some tweaks, sure, but they were okay with it.
It always makes me smile when I read about these tough so-and-sos claiming to be hardcore players who whine when they get killed and looted.
People care far too much about their pixels
While true in one sense (deaths in game really don't matter) in another sense some pixels can represent a great deal of time and effort.
So if you logged into your bank account and the pixels said Balance: $0.00 and you called the bank, could they tell you that you care too much about pixels?
In that case Im not actually caring about the pixels but the cash those numbers display. Those pixels have no value.
Right, and for many the pixels aren't just a sword but a representation of a great deal of time and effort.
I know you're smart enough to get my point, so I'll leave off.
... the PvE crowd doesn't want to die even once ...
Death is just as much a part of PvE. The PvE players I know simply don't want their time wasted by some other player trying to get their jollies off.
Given a large enough population somebody will figure out how to get around whatever "protections" exist. Consequently even the mere hint of mixed PvE and PvP is enough to drive away PvE players.
It's not that the PvE crowd doesn't want to die, it's the business side sayin' we're not making as much money as we thought we would.
The problem is that too many games try to please both crowds.....Really they should make the game one way or the other and not split the population.
My thought is that if a game has ffa pvp of any sort it should be considered a pvp game. End of story.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When I play a game with PvP... losing the pixels is part of the game and the risk factor that makes that type of game appealing.
game with PVP...
WoW, NewWorld, ESO - Are these PVP games or PVE games?
So essentially you are saying PVE players cant play Big budget MMO's and not expect to lose all their "pixels" to other players? They all have to play indie MMO's or expect to lose everything?
The real problem is PVE players dont know which games are going to screw them over or not. So they try things out to see how it will work out, then quit when its a bait and switch.
Some games like WoW allow PVE players to almost fully separate. While most others dont. Additionally PVP players get all the hookups.
Many of the games like Fractured are doing the bare minimum to try to bait in PVE players as targets. They need these PVE sheep to make the PVP players happy. They also need the PVE players money, since they represent such a large playerbase.
When I play a game with PvP... losing the pixels is part of the game and the risk factor that makes that type of game appealing.
game with PVP...
WoW, NewWorld, ESO - Are these PVP games or PVE games?
So essentially you are saying PVE players cant play Big budget MMO's and not expect to lose all their "pixels" to other players? They all have to play indie MMO's or expect to lose everything?
The real problem is PVE players dont know which games are going to screw them over or not. So they try things out to see how it will work out, then quit when its a bait and switch.
Some games like WoW allow PVE players to almost fully separate. While most others dont. Additionally PVP players get all the hookups.
Many of the games like Fractured are doing the bare minimum to try to bait in PVE players as targets. They need these PVE sheep to make the PVP players happy. They also need the PVE players money, since they represent such a large playerbase.
Most PVE players have had enough.
Like I said. Some people care far too much about their pixels. Thanks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When I play a game with PvP... losing the pixels is part of the game and the risk factor that makes that type of game appealing.
game with PVP...
WoW, NewWorld, ESO - Are these PVP games or PVE games?
So essentially you are saying PVE players cant play Big budget MMO's and not expect to lose all their "pixels" to other players? They all have to play indie MMO's or expect to lose everything?
I can't speak for New World but if a person can play world of warcraft and Elder Scrolls Online and never deal with pvp then they are not "pvp" games.
If a player has to go out of their way to avoid pvp, if they have to avoid an area, or a time frame when ffa pvp is activated, if there are separate pve/pvp areas BUT there are resources only available in that area and one needs to go in that area or pay someone to go in that area to get them, then that is a pvp game and a pve player shouldn't play it.
As far as PvE players can't play "big budget mmo's?
Well, if the big budget mmo is a game that includes any of the above and they don't like any of that, then "no" they shouldn't play that game. same goes withe a small budget game built the same way.
not every game is made for everyone. Nor should they be.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Does anyone know of an early access title where the developers promise the moon but barely scrape by, something I can throw a few hundred at, blow hundreds of hours in, all to have it wiped?
You say they left in droves but didn't they know what type of game it was when they bought and played it. They knew about the PvP and they still left after dying to it. Somehow I have difficulty with that. I mean if you get killed a few times it is fine. Were they camped and killed over and over, was there a mechanic that allowed for people to never let up from killing them.
People don't simply leave after one death it is only when you're repeatedly killed that people leave. I am more inclined to believe it is not as simple as what you have written here.
Look I know some players get upset even if they die even once but leaving in droves underlines a more pressing issue than simply dying once to PvP in a game where they never hid the fact that there were places you could be killed by another player.
I think there were other issues that let to the downfall of the game. Like perhaps a lack of content or bugs. From what I recall this game never really took off. It was always quite borderline and not having played it I cannot comment on its game play.
Supporters knew what they were told they were getting into. To this day they still don't actually have that. Their brief association with Gamigo wasn't well received and ending that set the game back as they had to position to operate it themselves. It's been a rocky road to say the least for the game so far. It's not surprising that whatever lustre it once had has been well worn at this point.
That said, even the possibility of unwanted PvP is enough to the kill the interest of some MMORPG players. Perhaps they are hoping the announced change will draw increased interest from the PvE only crowd to boost their fortunes. It's not like they have an abundant PvP player base to risk offending by giving it a go.
Well I do care about pixels because of the time and effort I spent gathering it and if they are plants or things I need to take care off , the time and effort I spent doing that. It is very cavalier to simply dismiss them as pixels when you didn't consider the time and effort I may have spent elsewhere had I not decided to spend it in the game.
My time is incredibly valuable to me. I don't know about you but anyone who cheapens the value of time does not realise how finite it is. So fuck yes I care about those damn pixels.
Having gotten that point out of the way and realising we should value the time we spend and effort we expend in playing a game I am willing to play within the rules of a game. I am also willing to allow other players to kill me but I will not allow them to camp my sorry pixels over and over again.
Here's the thing every time these PvP games release with all the free for all stuff they never put restrictions in. They only bother to do so when they begin to bleed out. Why weren't the restrictions put in place right from the very beginning. The reason the developers only do the extra policing of the game is when they see that they are losing players to the wanton nature of other players. They know very well how it will turn out and to suggest the developers were naive is disingenuous, they didn't want to spend the extra time and effort to put in safeguards. So cue people left.
I am very sorry for the OP that enjoyed the game but this litany of problems could have been easily avoided at the design stage and not left till it was too late. Although in this case and reading everything I have a sinking feeling this game is going to truly die off. Too little too late.
Having gotten that point out of the way and realising we should value the time we spend and effort we expend in playing a game I am willing to play within the rules of a game. I am also willing to allow other players to kill me but I will not allow them to camp my sorry pixels over and over again.
Here's the thing every time these PvP games release with all the free for all stuff they never put restrictions in. They only bother to do so when they begin to bleed out. Why weren't the restrictions put in place right from the very beginning. The reason the developers only do the extra policing of the game is when they see that they are losing players to the wanton nature of other players. They know very well how it will turn out and to suggest the developers were naive is disingenuous, they didn't want to spend the extra time and effort to put in safeguards. So cue people left.
I am very sorry for the OP that enjoyed the game but this litany of problems could have been easily avoided at the design stage and not left till it was too late. Although in this case and reading everything I have a sinking feeling this game is going to truly die off. Too little too late.
I feel like the game did a good job of pointing out the PvP elements up front, and to date, it had the best justice system I've seen in this type of game. Furthermore, you could get full rank without ever participating in PvP.
I played hardcore for 6 months and was murdered 3 times losing maybe .01% of the money I made. I never lost anything I couldn't replace in under an hour.
In FO it was the reds complaining about restrictions that was even a bigger uproar than the peaceful players. To use the safe ribbon (40 hrs of protection), players would buy an additional account, load the character with all the loot, and move it through the PvP hotspots - they couldn't be touched. The red tears over getting ganked by sheriffs is a warm memory for me that I'll always cherish. I lived to see the revenge on those old UO ganksquads.
I'm not saying your observations are wrong since this happens in game after game after game that attempts this ruleset. In the case of FO, the major complaint seems to be lack of content, and less the ruleset. That said, the fact they're allowing for permanent good protection; it could be the developers got enough feedback to that effect that they feel they must do this to survive.
Yes, the game will probably die. Its clear they're not taking the NMS route and releasing thoughtful, careful updates. They're flailing.
Disclaimer: I have never played FO but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
I took a look at the official release notice and learned the following.
Although mentioned once, it escaped some here that there is no wipe being planned, instead creating a fresh start server.
Yes, the devs well understand it will "fracture" the player base and that in 2 months new joiners will be again at a disadvantage.
Recall that FO had several rounds of hacking and duping which the devs freely admit have left large numbers of "objects" in the game world that should not be there.
While the devs believe this has not ruined the economy, (there really isn't one as not many are playing atm) they acknowledge player feedback has been this must be rectified before they will return (seems fair, though I'm sure some of the folk were participants in the hacking) so they decided to start fresh rather than wipe.
While @Wargfoot has said in the past there was a way for PVE players to reach level 50 without dying or losing too much apparently there was no way to maximize ones "abilities" (such as self resurrection) without venturing into the PVP realm more than once.
Warg partially explained he took advantage of the 40 hour safety period, or travelled about with nothing of value and didn't loot (which as a hoarder borders on heresy in my book) and I recall him mentioning he often ventured into the PVP realm during the off hours of the server.
All smart moves which I used back in my EVE days, but pure PVP players don't want to deal with such limiting tactics these days.
PVE players don't like having their progress slowed down or their gameplay experienced gimped especially after they were originally promised they never would have to risk PVP to achieve maximum character progression.
I'm sure those who quit after one death realized they had been lied to and didn't want to bother with who knows how many more deaths that might lie ahead and it isn't really the loss of gear that caused the decline.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Many of my favorite games have PvE and PvP. DAOC, Ryzom, PotBS, ESO. In each case though, the player gets to decide when and where to be subject to PvP. In PotBS and Ryzom, there are reasons to PvP, like special mats in the PvP zone or a port that you need to trade with is being attacked in PvP.
I still remember the first keep we took in DAOC back in 2002. I used to farm mobs in the PvP area just for the thrill of possibly being attacked. Hiding out stealthed in Darkness Falls when it switched to the enemy's control. PvP has its own thrill.
I also remember the PvP game where griefers camped the respawn point so that after they killed you, you would respawn and they'd just kill you instantly again. So you respawn .... a lot of so-called PvP players just want to gank and grief, and don't actually want a real challenge where they could get killed and looted.
As for the value of the pixels, I spent weeks, months in Vanguard grinding to get my first mount, the snapping turtle. When I saw another player with the turtle mount, I could appreciate the effort they went to to get it. Then Vanguard opened a cash shop and you could simply buy the turtle mount. Putting it up for sale actually cheapened the value to me.
Disclaimer: I have never played FO but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
I took a look at the official release notice and learned the following.
Although mentioned once, it escaped some here that there is no wipe being planned, instead creating a fresh start server.
This is one of those PO-ta-to vs. Po-TAH-to things in that by moving all the new players and activity over to a new 'fresh start' sever, the few of us still playing will be left behind on a dead server that will eventually be shut down anyways.
So correct, technically not a wipe, but practically speaking it is little more than semantics as the end result is the same. (You can keep all your stuff and play alone on a dead server)
As for the promise of PvE only - a person could easily get to max level in that 40hr. window and get any skills they wanted without ever egaging in PvP; however, they'd have to know what they're doing right out of the gate - I think it's fair to grant that as a broken promise.
The PvE crowd found it irritating they couldn't get to all resources without PvP; the PvP crowd was extremely irritated that people could farm in safe zones without being robbed. Both are sociopaths, IMHO.
"Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others."
Wait so people that want to get to resources without PvP are sociopaths? Wow the bar to becoming a sociopath must be really low for you. I guess because I want to go to the grocery store and not have to kill a few gangbangers in the process makes me a sociopath as well in your book? Maybe I'm missing some context here but it seems for you maybe the sociopath is looking at you in the mirror.
"Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others."
Wait so people that want to get to resources without PvP are sociopaths? Wow the bar to becoming a sociopath must be really low for you. I guess because I want to go to the grocery store and not have to kill a few gangbangers in the process makes me a sociopath as well in your book? Maybe I'm missing some context here but it seems for you maybe the sociopath is looking at you in the mirror.
No, those people are not sociopaths. They're just in the wrong game.
The part that is sociopathic is expecting the rules to be changed (despite all the people who actually did research before purchasing) and acting like everyone else is a sicko for enjoying the game as designed.
Another sign of sociopathy might be comparing a video game to real life in order to make a point.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So if you logged into your bank account and the pixels said Balance: $0.00 and you called the bank, could they tell you that you care too much about pixels?
I play a game to have fun. When someone takes my pieces in Chess it's part of the game. When someone takes my territory in RISK it's part of the game. When I play a game with PvP... losing the pixels is part of the game and the risk factor that makes that type of game appealing.
I've been looted more times than I could ever count. I've lost houses, ships, towns, cities, armor, weapons... and never considered it any way other than when I lost Kamchatka in Risk. Yes, it messed up my plans. Yes it caused me to lose what I was working for. YES its part of the game. Do I like to win? Sure, but I just like PLAYING. It seems many find "winning" as a necessary criteria to have fun.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not surprised this game is going in a different direction as when I tried it very early on I very quickly realised it was mediocre at best and wouldn't do well.
I know you're smart enough to get my point, so I'll leave off.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
WoW, NewWorld, ESO - Are these PVP games or PVE games?
So essentially you are saying PVE players cant play Big budget MMO's and not expect to lose all their "pixels" to other players? They all have to play indie MMO's or expect to lose everything?
The real problem is PVE players dont know which games are going to screw them over or not. So they try things out to see how it will work out, then quit when its a bait and switch.
Some games like WoW allow PVE players to almost fully separate. While most others dont.
Additionally PVP players get all the hookups.
Many of the games like Fractured are doing the bare minimum to try to bait in PVE players as targets. They need these PVE sheep to make the PVP players happy. They also need the PVE players money, since they represent such a large playerbase.
Most PVE players have had enough.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Citizen, do I have an opportunity for you!
Supporters knew what they were told they were getting into. To this day they still don't actually have that. Their brief association with Gamigo wasn't well received and ending that set the game back as they had to position to operate it themselves. It's been a rocky road to say the least for the game so far. It's not surprising that whatever lustre it once had has been well worn at this point.
That said, even the possibility of unwanted PvP is enough to the kill the interest of some MMORPG players. Perhaps they are hoping the announced change will draw increased interest from the PvE only crowd to boost their fortunes. It's not like they have an abundant PvP player base to risk offending by giving it a go.
My time is incredibly valuable to me. I don't know about you but anyone who cheapens the value of time does not realise how finite it is. So fuck yes I care about those damn pixels.
Here's the thing every time these PvP games release with all the free for all stuff they never put restrictions in. They only bother to do so when they begin to bleed out. Why weren't the restrictions put in place right from the very beginning. The reason the developers only do the extra policing of the game is when they see that they are losing players to the wanton nature of other players. They know very well how it will turn out and to suggest the developers were naive is disingenuous, they didn't want to spend the extra time and effort to put in safeguards. So cue people left.
I am very sorry for the OP that enjoyed the game but this litany of problems could have been easily avoided at the design stage and not left till it was too late. Although in this case and reading everything I have a sinking feeling this game is going to truly die off. Too little too late.
I played hardcore for 6 months and was murdered 3 times losing maybe .01% of the money I made. I never lost anything I couldn't replace in under an hour.
In FO it was the reds complaining about restrictions that was even a bigger uproar than the peaceful players. To use the safe ribbon (40 hrs of protection), players would buy an additional account, load the character with all the loot, and move it through the PvP hotspots - they couldn't be touched.
I'm not saying your observations are wrong since this happens in game after game after game that attempts this ruleset. In the case of FO, the major complaint seems to be lack of content, and less the ruleset. That said, the fact they're allowing for permanent good protection; it could be the developers got enough feedback to that effect that they feel they must do this to survive.
Yes, the game will probably die.
Its clear they're not taking the NMS route and releasing thoughtful, careful updates.
They're flailing.
I took a look at the official release notice and learned the following.
Although mentioned once, it escaped some here that there is no wipe being planned, instead creating a fresh start server.
Yes, the devs well understand it will "fracture" the player base
Recall that FO had several rounds of hacking and duping which the devs freely admit have left large numbers of "objects" in the game world that should not be there.
While the devs believe this has not ruined the economy, (there really isn't one as not many are playing atm) they acknowledge player feedback has been this must be rectified before they will return (seems fair, though I'm sure some of the folk were participants in the hacking) so they decided to start fresh rather than wipe.
While @Wargfoot has said in the past there was a way for PVE players to reach level 50 without dying or losing too much apparently there was no way to maximize ones "abilities" (such as self resurrection) without venturing into the PVP realm more than once.
Warg partially explained he took advantage of the 40 hour safety period, or travelled about with nothing of value and didn't loot (which as a hoarder borders on heresy in my book)
All smart moves which I used back in my EVE days, but pure PVP players don't want to deal with such limiting tactics these days.
PVE players don't like having their progress slowed down or their gameplay experienced gimped especially after they were originally promised they never would have to risk PVP to achieve maximum character progression.
I'm sure those who quit after one death realized they had been lied to and didn't want to bother with who knows how many more deaths that might lie ahead and it isn't really the loss of gear that caused the decline.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I still remember the first keep we took in DAOC back in 2002. I used to farm mobs in the PvP area just for the thrill of possibly being attacked. Hiding out stealthed in Darkness Falls when it switched to the enemy's control. PvP has its own thrill.
I also remember the PvP game where griefers camped the respawn point so that after they killed you, you would respawn and they'd just kill you instantly again. So you respawn .... a lot of so-called PvP players just want to gank and grief, and don't actually want a real challenge where they could get killed and looted.
As for the value of the pixels, I spent weeks, months in Vanguard grinding to get my first mount, the snapping turtle. When I saw another player with the turtle mount, I could appreciate the effort they went to to get it. Then Vanguard opened a cash shop and you could simply buy the turtle mount. Putting it up for sale actually cheapened the value to me.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
So correct, technically not a wipe, but practically speaking it is little more than semantics as the end result is the same. (You can keep all your stuff and play alone on a dead server)
As for the promise of PvE only - a person could easily get to max level in that 40hr. window and get any skills they wanted without ever egaging in PvP; however, they'd have to know what they're doing right out of the gate - I think it's fair to grant that as a broken promise.
The PvE crowd found it irritating they couldn't get to all resources without PvP; the PvP crowd was extremely irritated that people could farm in safe zones without being robbed. Both are sociopaths, IMHO.
Wait so people that want to get to resources without PvP are sociopaths? Wow the bar to becoming a sociopath must be really low for you. I guess because I want to go to the grocery store and not have to kill a few gangbangers in the process makes me a sociopath as well in your book? Maybe I'm missing some context here but it seems for you maybe the sociopath is looking at you in the mirror.
They're just in the wrong game.
The part that is sociopathic is expecting the rules to be changed (despite all the people who actually did research before purchasing) and acting like everyone else is a sicko for enjoying the game as designed.
Another sign of sociopathy might be comparing a video game to real life in order to make a point.