Ubisoft bribes influencers for good reviews on SW Outlaws

Nanfoodle

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Wargfoot

Influencer has been synonymous with "advertiser", "pimp" and "shill" for as long as I can remember.

Sovrath

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

In fairness were they told that, in return for this trip, they had to give it a good review?

Could they have taken the trip and given it a bad review?

lotrlore

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

I hate to say it, this is pretty standard. I have to watch the video, but press trips like this are normal - though some outlets do have restrictions on what they are allowed to accept. Since we are a smaller outfit that can't pay as much as, say, IGN, we allow these types of trips for our writers. But this is also why we disclose the fact on coverage that comes out of them for full transparency. 

Also, unlike influencers, going to Disneyland isn't going to stop us from calling a bad game bad, or a good game good. 

This is a bit different than what WB was doing years ago with the Shadow of Mordor launch, where they were literally paying for positive reviews. I can't speak to what influencer outreach looked like or what deals were struck there, but I can say that if we were offered to go on this trip (we weren't, for full transparency) and there was anything in there about the tone of coverage or coverage approval, we would not go or touch it with a ten foot pole.

Press trips are pretty normal though, and it's usually normal for PR and marketing teams to pay for travel and lodgings, though not always. An example of this is something like EVE Fanfest - we were flown to Iceland to cover the event though CCP never once requested editorial control over our content. Conversely, when we covered Final Fantasy XIV Fanfest happened here in Vegas, we flew Victoria out on the site's dime to cover the event because travel was not included in our press access (and it was important for her to be out here as our main columnist).

Sovrath

lotrlore said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

I hate to say it, this is pretty standard. I have to watch the video, but press trips like this are normal - though some outlets do have restrictions on what they are allowed to accept. Since we are a smaller outfit that can't pay as much as, say, IGN, we allow these types of trips for our writers. But this is also why we disclose the fact on coverage that comes out of them for full transparency. 

Also, unlike influencers, going to Disneyland isn't going to stop us from calling a bad game bad, or a good game good. 

This is a bit different than what WB was doing years ago with the Shadow of Mordor launch, where they were literally paying for positive reviews. I can't speak to what influencer outreach looked like or what deals were struck there, but I can say that if we were offered to go on this trip (we weren't, for full transparency) and there was anything in there about the tone of coverage or coverage approval, we would not go or touch it with a ten foot pole.

Press trips are pretty normal though, and it's usually normal for PR and marketing teams to pay for travel and lodgings, though not always. An example of this is something like EVE Fanfest - we were flown to Iceland to cover the event though CCP never once requested editorial control over our content. Conversely, when we covered Final Fantasy XIV Fanfest happened here in Vegas, we flew Victoria out on the site's dime to cover the event because travel was not included in our press access (and it was important for her to be out here as our main columnist).

I was going to say the same thing. A Times journalist wouldn’t do this but apparently independent journalists can join a press junket in order to cover something.

Wargfoot

Can they afford to not have access to breaking news and turn down the trip?

Terazon

Pretty standard practice 

ValdemarJ

Wargfoot said:

Can they afford to not have access to breaking news and turn down the trip?

They're likely to get a review key either way. Those who have the opportunity to go can enjoy the PR wining and dining.

Lots of sites pay for their writers to attend conferences or go meet with studios for in person interviews. I'm pretty sure MMORPG has done so in the past, if not currently doing so. I don't see a problem with any of that unless they're bullied into giving a positive article.

lotrlore

Wargfoot said:

Can they afford to not have access to breaking news and turn down the trip?

Oftentimes these trips don't involve "breaking news," but rather preview content or access to developers for interviews - more often than not both. So everyone is under the same coverage embargo and other than interviews, the coverage will tend to be focused on whatever preview they were shown. 

If news is breaking from a trip like this, it's usually because a developer said something to one outlet in an interview, but not others, and that tidbit was newsworthy. Or someone royally screwed up on the record.

Slapshot1188

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Dattelis

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Could be worse since we dont know the terms of contracts/agreements made, we only know what is released/leaked/etc. So for all we know, these people leaving 'good' reviews could receive a kickback of sorts outside of the trip etc. Plus they kind of already are 'receiving' something outside of it in terms of content for them to pump out and profit off of. Even the 'influencers' buying into stuff like ashes/SC/etc use it to get a return on their investment for 'work.' I personally tend to stay away from types like that, but it also depends on what they are legally able to talk about on the product as well after stuff like that. So people need to really 'feel these types out.' But I also noticed I've been shadow-boycotting Ubisoft games for almost a decade at this point (realized I haven't played/care to play any of their games over that time period).

Terazon

Dattelis said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Could be worse since we dont know the terms of contracts/agreements made, we only know what is released/leaked/etc. So for all we know, these people leaving 'good' reviews could receive a kickback of sorts outside of the trip etc. Plus they kind of already are 'receiving' something outside of it in terms of content for them to pump out and profit off of. Even the 'influencers' buying into stuff like ashes/SC/etc use it to get a return on their investment for 'work.' I personally tend to stay away from types like that, but it also depends on what they are legally able to talk about on the product as well after stuff like that. So people need to really 'feel these types out.' But I also noticed I've been shadow-boycotting Ubisoft games for almost a decade at this point (realized I haven't played/care to play any of their games over that time period).

Then boycott nearly all games and most forms of entertainment because this is a standard practice in multiple industries and always has been. 

Slapshot1188

Terazon said:

Dattelis said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Could be worse since we dont know the terms of contracts/agreements made, we only know what is released/leaked/etc. So for all we know, these people leaving 'good' reviews could receive a kickback of sorts outside of the trip etc. Plus they kind of already are 'receiving' something outside of it in terms of content for them to pump out and profit off of. Even the 'influencers' buying into stuff like ashes/SC/etc use it to get a return on their investment for 'work.' I personally tend to stay away from types like that, but it also depends on what they are legally able to talk about on the product as well after stuff like that. So people need to really 'feel these types out.' But I also noticed I've been shadow-boycotting Ubisoft games for almost a decade at this point (realized I haven't played/care to play any of their games over that time period).

Then boycott nearly all games and most forms of entertainment because this is a standard practice in multiple industries and always has been. 

How many game companies pay a perpetual 15% referral on all purchases for every customer an influencer brings in?

BrotherMaynard

The fact that something is standard practice does not mean it is ok - it may just show how deep this morass goes. This specific example should be seen in connection with:

• The hilariously bad previews of Star Wars Outlaws and the resulting very negative response by gamers,
• Ubisoft's claims of launching the biggest marketing campaign in their history,
• And especially with Ubisoft's use of third-party PR agencies to censor YouTubers' content about Star Wars Outlaws.

In essence, this is a coordinated snake oil campaign by Ubisoft, pushed through bribed influencers and without disclosing any such details to the viewers. And yes, yes, I know about all the usual "arguments" trying to justify bribing with the age-old stuff like "everybody does it" and "it's the best product anyway" and "they're not bribes, they're just various management fees and expenses" and all the rest of it. Nihil sub sole novum.

Ubisoft absolutely does expect good reviews and promotion from those influencers for Star Wars Outlaws. Even without having access to any contract or NDA, this is self-evident and uses basic human psychology and social dynamics to create positive spin.

One of the first things any training on lobbying would show you: your first step is to create a sense of gratitude and obligation. You need no contract to do that - but still, I would bet Ubisoft has a few clauses about 'their experts assisting content creators with the production of their videos' - and "politely" asking them to change the content to Ubisoft's liking, making them offers they cannot refuse.

The whole question of influencers is much more serious and several countries are already starting to regulate this whole swamp, thankfully. Take a look at this page, there's a ton of links to various countries and organisations doing studies on influencers (scroll down to about mid-page). One such study by Princeton found that only 10% of influencers actually disclose their affiliate marketing; or Poland looking into influencers pushing various scams. Or this report by the European Consumer Organisation; the case studies are very interesting and show for example how dubious weight loss products or nicotine products are pushed through social media or how McDonalds (and other junk food vendors) use influencers to bypass any restrictions and go straight to the children.

While gaming influencers are nowhere near the various hacks and morally bankrupt people pushing questionable or harmful services and products (especially in health or finance), it is still undisclosed advertising, usually with unrealistic and misleading claims, that is running rampant across the digital world and people buy into it, oblivious to the simple fact they are not listening to honest impartial opinions, but to carefully coordinated ad campaigns for dubious companies.

The simple rule should be: your viewers should clearly know that you are shilling for company XYZ - and then they can decide if they want to buy the product or point fingers at you laughing.

Vrika

Paying trips for media to come and see your product is standard practice. It buys you visibility. It also allows Ubisoft to choose influencers most likely to give good publicity for the trip, but those big enough to be chosen aren't going to be positive just for the sake of getting their expenses paid on a work-related trip.

But a gift like tour to Disneyland counts as a bribe: No-one says anything, but everyone knows that getting similar gifts in the future depends on giving SW Outlaws good publicity. It's not expensive enough gift to determine what kind of publicity influencers give, but it's enough to influence the influencers.

Nanfoodle

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Nope its not but there is one small difference. Ashes influencers up front let you know about the referral link and I can take everything they say with a grain of salt but anyone getting paid for spouting info should say it up front. Much like this site. "SPONCERED" is everywhere. Great I read with a different slant. Hiding its sponsored. Thats 100% shady,      

Slapshot1188

Nanfoodle said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Ubisoft Got Caught Bribing Creators.. (youtube.com)

Watching the video. Seems the influencers were flown down to Disney Land all expenses paid. They got to play in the park and play a 4hr test of the game. If a journalist at Walstreet did this, they would be fired.  

Let me ask you a serious question.  Is this better or worse than what Intrepid is doing with Ashes of Creation where they pay real money for referrals?  So all these influencers push the game with positive hopeful spins just to get that 15% kickback.

I assure you that some of the most popular ones are making a LOT more in cash than a 1 or 2 day trip to Disneyland costs.

Thoughts?

 

Nope its not but there is one small difference. Ashes influencers up front let you know about the referral link and I can take everything they say with a grain of salt but anyone getting paid for spouting info should say it up front. Much like this site. "SPONCERED" is everywhere. Great I read with a different slant. Hiding its sponsored. Thats 100% shady,      

Actually I do not see the correlation/distinction at all.  SOME Ashes influencers may say here is my referral link and I get 15% of everything you buy in perpetuity, but not all. As a matter of fact I don't know of a single one that says that but then again I do not watch many.  It seems like you are trying to project there as being some kind of rule that Ashes influencers have to follow and Ubisoft's don't but that's not the case at all.  Do you know how many people have active referrals from Ashes?  It's in the THOUSANDS.  You think they all disclaim that they get a 15% kickback every time they provide a link?   I bet many don't even show it as a referral link but just a general, click here to go to Ashes of Creation...

I mean I just randomly clicked a recent video.  It's from LazyPeOn.  The link doesn't even SAY it's a referral link.  Just says SignUp Here!

And yes I listened to the beginning and end of the stream and he just says something like: Click the link below.  'It doesn't cost you anything and I might be rewarded when the game launches" Come on man.  He knows EXACTLY what he gets when you click the link. Not "I might be rewarded".   He's not getting an in game pet.  He's getting a perpetual 15% on anything you buy. 



But I think we agree that it's shady to get monetary compensation in return for pumping a product and not disclosing it.  So given that, would you agree that LazyPeon was being shady by not disclosing his actual 15% perpetual monetary Kickback? 



Edited to add; as far as MMORPG.COM and the "Sponsored" articles.  The other very LARGE difference is that the staff/writers here do not write those articles (Correct me if that's wrong).  It's just like running an infomercial on a TV channel.  Its created by the advertiser.  And marked as such.  

lotrlore

Slapshot1188 said:

Edited to add; as far as MMORPG.COM and the "Sponsored" articles.  The other very LARGE difference is that the staff/writers here do not write those articles (Correct me if that's wrong).  It's just like running an infomercial on a TV channel.  It’s created by the advertiser.  And marked as such.  

When I first took over the site in 2019, these were a mix of being written by a staff writer paid to write up copy or a post written by the advertiser. Both times the copy was dictated and paid for by the advertiser, but with some non-English speaking games it was better to have a native English speaker to write them. These were always marked Sponsored, and the rule was if it was a staff writer who was paid to write it, they could no longer report or write about that game in normal coverage.

One of the major changes I’ve made as Managing Editor is that every single sponsored post is now written by the ad partner, there is a complete break between our editorial team and sales, full stop. I interface with it because I’m both the managing editor and EIC, but it’s only going so far as scheduling and determining whether an ad would be a “good fit,” to so speak. This is also why you see fewer sponsored posts on the site now.

We use an ad partner to do the planning on this, and I only get involved when it’s time for a campaign to go live, whether it’s to make sure we have a game profile made (for a Play Now campaign) or to schedule a sponsored post if that’s what the ad partner wants.

a round about way of confirming that no MMORPG writers pen the sponsored posts, and out of our entire team, I am the only one who interfaces with the ad partners, and even then I very rarely know what the campaign is unless it requires something to be built on the site. I say this because we have a storm gate campaign going on and I’m working on impressions for the game. My involvement with this banner is simple building a game profile - which we were doing anyways.

anyways, a little more transparency for your Friday.

Nanfoodle

lotrlore said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edited to add; as far as MMORPG.COM and the "Sponsored" articles.  The other very LARGE difference is that the staff/writers here do not write those articles (Correct me if that's wrong).  It's just like running an infomercial on a TV channel.  It’s created by the advertiser.  And marked as such.  

When I first took over the site in 2019, these were a mix of being written by a staff writer paid to write up copy or a post written by the advertiser. Both times the copy was dictated and paid for by the advertiser, but with some non-English speaking games it was better to have a native English speaker to write them. These were always marked Sponsored, and the rule was if it was a staff writer who was paid to write it, they could no longer report or write about that game in normal coverage.

One of the major changes I’ve made as Managing Editor is that every single sponsored post is now written by the ad partner, there is a complete break between our editorial team and sales, full stop. I interface with it because I’m both the managing editor and EIC, but it’s only going so far as scheduling and determining whether an ad would be a “good fit,” to so speak. This is also why you see fewer sponsored posts on the site now.

We use an ad partner to do the planning on this, and I only get involved when it’s time for a campaign to go live, whether it’s to make sure we have a game profile made (for a Play Now campaign) or to schedule a sponsored post if that’s what the ad partner wants.

a round about way of confirming that no MMORPG writers pen the sponsored posts, and out of our entire team, I am the only one who interfaces with the ad partners, and even then I very rarely know what the campaign is unless it requires something to be built on the site. I say this because we have a storm gate campaign going on and I’m working on impressions for the game. My involvement with this banner is simple building a game profile - which we were doing anyways.

anyways, a little more transparency for your Friday.

Thats cool. Thanks for sharing. Some lines are wrong to cross and sometimes they are not. Context means allot. The stance of a creator need to be clear. If they have something to gain, the audience should always know. So we can decide if we want to proceed. Fact you lets us know where you stand on this and what content comes from you. Makes me comfortable. 

lotrlore

Nanfoodle said:

lotrlore said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edited to add; as far as MMORPG.COM and the "Sponsored" articles.  The other very LARGE difference is that the staff/writers here do not write those articles (Correct me if that's wrong).  It's just like running an infomercial on a TV channel.  It’s created by the advertiser.  And marked as such.  

When I first took over the site in 2019, these were a mix of being written by a staff writer paid to write up copy or a post written by the advertiser. Both times the copy was dictated and paid for by the advertiser, but with some non-English speaking games it was better to have a native English speaker to write them. These were always marked Sponsored, and the rule was if it was a staff writer who was paid to write it, they could no longer report or write about that game in normal coverage.

One of the major changes I’ve made as Managing Editor is that every single sponsored post is now written by the ad partner, there is a complete break between our editorial team and sales, full stop. I interface with it because I’m both the managing editor and EIC, but it’s only going so far as scheduling and determining whether an ad would be a “good fit,” to so speak. This is also why you see fewer sponsored posts on the site now.

We use an ad partner to do the planning on this, and I only get involved when it’s time for a campaign to go live, whether it’s to make sure we have a game profile made (for a Play Now campaign) or to schedule a sponsored post if that’s what the ad partner wants.

a round about way of confirming that no MMORPG writers pen the sponsored posts, and out of our entire team, I am the only one who interfaces with the ad partners, and even then I very rarely know what the campaign is unless it requires something to be built on the site. I say this because we have a storm gate campaign going on and I’m working on impressions for the game. My involvement with this banner is simple building a game profile - which we were doing anyways.

anyways, a little more transparency for your Friday.

Thats cool. Thanks for sharing. Some lines are wrong to cross and sometimes they are not. Context means allot. The stance of a creator need to be clear. If they have something to gain, the audience should always know. So we can decide if we want to proceed. Fact you lets us know where you stand on this and what content comes from you. Makes me comfortable. 

To add onto this further since the conversation of affiliate links has come up: we do use affiliate links on hardware articles - but if we do we disclose it in the article. Chris and I are very, very hyper vigilant about that. So if you read a hardware review or piece and there isn't a disclosure, rest assured there is no affiliate link anywhere to be seen. Conversely, if there is an affiliate link, know that that commission doesn't go to our corporate overlords, but rather a pool to continue to be able to pay our writers for their work. 

Disclosure is super important to me. It's why for the first year or so after I took over, whenever we covered a game Bill was acting as the PR contact for, we disclosed this information. We didn't have to, and that kind of thing isn't standard practice since Bill technically had no more ties to our website, but I felt it was important to ensure you guys knew exactly the relationship involved. I am anal about disclosures - it's also why if we received a review copy or review sample of something, we disclose this on the review. It's why when we post a sponsored post we have Sponsored not just in the title, but the description and the banner (and we plaster it all over the social media posts that accompany it). 

You guys drive our ability to continue to do this for a living. Without your trust in our work, you wouldn't read, and we'd not be able to pay our freelancers, editors and, well, me. So ensuring that you don't ever feel like we're not on the up and up with this type of important stuff is something I am very, very vigilant about. That trust has to be there - and it's why I have no issue responding and peeling back the curtain a little bit here when most other sites would just point to their ethics policy (which, honestly, now reading it, could use a small update with its sponsored post section).

Tiller

Random fact: Not all content creators are influencers, but all influencers are by definition content creators.

Still trying to figure out if crazy  Scotty Kilmer would be considered an influencer at this point xD I think he's obnoxious and doesn't know wtf he's talking about most times, but millions of people follow his advise lol.

FrodoFragins

The gifts and trips aren't the problem.  It's the bad faith reviewers or non disparagement agreements that sometimes come with them.

A good example of this was Payday 3 where otherwise tough reviewing content creators became complete shills for a terrible game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svFwx1vFZdU