Rapid Trigger Keyboard settings are now considered cheating

Tiller

It would seem that games are now banning players from using certain rapid trigger features on their KB. I honestly never turn rapid trigger feature on when it comes to my keyboard, so I can't speak to this, although I do have custom actuation settings for the MMOs I play. 

I wonder if more games are going to be detecting this feature, and all out banning certain hardware profiles all together. All this comes from the fact that a few players started complaining that skills it took them years to develop playing, are easily now accomplished via a setting in KB software for their hardware. 

Lets face it, these games are full of cheaters, and they go undetected all the time, So why did they zero in on a Keyboard setting and not just normal shitty cheaters?

Asm0deus

Pretty silly, hardware evolved to allow more accurate inputs and now its banned just cause some peeps have the twitch skills to do so without these keyboards...LOL

It kind of like banning peeps that have a mouse with a dpi button that lowers it while pressed to have more accurate aiming or even allows dpi adjustments on the fly....

Vrika

Valve did the right thing.

Normally game developers decide what happens when you try to do simultaneously actions that can't be all done at the same time. As most common example, if the user is pressing A to strafe left, then decides to also press D without releasing A, the devs decide whether that will cause the character to stop strafing, keep strafing left, or start strafing right.

If the game allows macros then devs don't get to decide, because the user can write macros like "When A and D are both pressed down, send only the one that was pressed later to the game".

Multiplayer games normally do not allow macros. But some keyboard manufacturers decided to add that kind of macro as in-build functionality to their keyboards, and for a while it was allowed. Now Valve updated their policy to ban that kind of automation. I think they did the right thing.

Quizzical

Making it so that fighting against an awkward control scheme is an important part of player skill is bad game design.  Developers should try to make it as easy as possible for players to get their characters to move in the way that the player intended.  If this gives a significant enough advantage in some particular game to be arguably cheating, then that's a huge flaw in the game, not a problem with the keyboard.

Kyleran

Quizzical said:

Making it so that fighting against an awkward control scheme is an important part of player skill is bad game design.  Developers should try to make it as easy as possible for players to get their characters to move in the way that the player intended.  If this gives a significant enough advantage in some particular game to be arguably cheating, then that's a huge flaw in the game, not a problem with the keyboard.

But that's not what happened here right? It was about using keyboard to trigger fire faster than some player's skill permits, nothing about awkward control schemes.

Tiller

Quizzical said:

Making it so that fighting against an awkward control scheme is an important part of player skill is bad game design.  Developers should try to make it as easy as possible for players to get their characters to move in the way that the player intended.  If this gives a significant enough advantage in some particular game to be arguably cheating, then that's a huge flaw in the game, not a problem with the keyboard.

Here is an explanation of rapid trigger and changing actuation points.

Sovrath

Tiller said:

It would seem that games are now banning players from using certain rapid trigger features on their KB. I honestly never turn rapid trigger feature on when it comes to my keyboard, so I can't speak to this, although I do have custom actuation settings for the MMOs I play. 

I wonder if more games are going to be detecting this feature, and all out banning certain hardware profiles all together. All this comes from the fact that a few players started complaining that skills it took them years to develop playing, are easily now accomplished via a setting in KB software for their hardware. 

Lets face it, these games are full of cheaters, and they go undetected all the time, So why did they zero in on a Keyboard setting and not just normal shitty cheaters?

Why do you assume they aren’t also trying to catch regular cheaters?

Whatever that means.

Tiller

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

It would seem that games are now banning players from using certain rapid trigger features on their KB. I honestly never turn rapid trigger feature on when it comes to my keyboard, so I can't speak to this, although I do have custom actuation settings for the MMOs I play. 

I wonder if more games are going to be detecting this feature, and all out banning certain hardware profiles all together. All this comes from the fact that a few players started complaining that skills it took them years to develop playing, are easily now accomplished via a setting in KB software for their hardware. 

Lets face it, these games are full of cheaters, and they go undetected all the time, So why did they zero in on a Keyboard setting and not just normal shitty cheaters?

Why do you assume they aren’t also trying to catch regular cheaters?

Whatever that means.

Because many cheats go unfixed for a lot longer than it took for them to patch this change.

olepi

Tiller said:

Sovrath said:

Tiller said:

It would seem that games are now banning players from using certain rapid trigger features on their KB. I honestly never turn rapid trigger feature on when it comes to my keyboard, so I can't speak to this, although I do have custom actuation settings for the MMOs I play. 

I wonder if more games are going to be detecting this feature, and all out banning certain hardware profiles all together. All this comes from the fact that a few players started complaining that skills it took them years to develop playing, are easily now accomplished via a setting in KB software for their hardware. 

Lets face it, these games are full of cheaters, and they go undetected all the time, So why did they zero in on a Keyboard setting and not just normal shitty cheaters?

Why do you assume they aren’t also trying to catch regular cheaters?

Whatever that means.

Because many cheats go unfixed for a lot longer than it took for them to patch this change.

Maybe it's because detecting this feature is easy, and detecting other forms of cheating is hard?

Sovrath

Tiller said:

Sovrath said:

Why do you assume they aren’t also trying to catch regular cheaters?

Whatever that means.

Because many cheats go unfixed for a lot longer than it took for them to patch this change.

Well you don’t really know what they are doing behind the scenes or how difficult it is to patch those cheats or if there is a real reason to keep them.

I would suggest that if patching this change was quick then it was just that, “quick.”

I Remember speaking to a GM from lineage 2 at some convention and we did talk about bots and gold selling and the like.

Let’s just say developers know a scary amount of detail in their games and there are reasons they do or don’t do a thing.

Wargfoot

This looks like a hardware setting to me, and I don't see how this is different than having a superior graphics card or a better internet connection.

Something to consider is: These setting may be important for a disabled person.

GrimDogGaming

Theye should ban me for having an 80" screen. I can see far more on my screen than the average player and thus have an advantage. I'm such a cheater.

Tiller

Wargfoot said:

This looks like a hardware setting to me, and I don't see how this is different than having a superior graphics card or a better internet connection.

Something to consider is: These setting may be important for a disabled person.

Or a mouse with high DPI and higher polling rate. Should we be mad because someone else can flick faster with their newer lightweight mouse than the guy with a 20 year old trackball mouse?

I think some folks are confused as to what rapid trigger is.

I hate cheaters as much as anyone else, but this aint it.

 It's no different than someone in a Honda civic who challenges and loses to a 911 and complains because the other car is faster and somehow it should be gimped so he can win because he feels he's a better driver.

My monitor has an FPS setting for FPS games, should that be bannable offense?

Unless they plan on now taking into consideration hardware profiles and classifying it in all competitive play, best to leave the HW thing alone. It's not making the keyboard do anything beyond it's design parameters.

 

Wargfoot

GrimDogGaming said:

Theye should ban me for having an 80" screen. I can see far more on my screen than the average player and thus have an advantage. I'm such a cheater.

You should feel bad.
Please go stand in the corner and hang your head in shame.

Theocritus

Which keyboard will sell more: Normal run of the mill keyboard, or ours is faster than average run of the mill keyboard? Same thing with the mouse....If people think it is going to give them an advantage, then there are some that will definitely buy it, no matter the cost.

Wargfoot

Theocritus said:

Which keyboard will sell more: Normal run of the mill keyboard, or ours is faster than average run of the mill keyboard? Same thing with the mouse....If people think it is going to give them an advantage, then there are some that will definitely buy it, no matter the cost.

When I buy gear the only question I ask is "Will this allow me to kill and dry loot Theorcritus faster?"

If the answer to that question is "Yes", I ask my dad to borrow his credit card.

Quizzical

Kyleran said:

Quizzical said:

Making it so that fighting against an awkward control scheme is an important part of player skill is bad game design.  Developers should try to make it as easy as possible for players to get their characters to move in the way that the player intended.  If this gives a significant enough advantage in some particular game to be arguably cheating, then that's a huge flaw in the game, not a problem with the keyboard.

But that's not what happened here right? It was about using keyboard to trigger fire faster than some player's skill permits, nothing about awkward control schemes.

If being able to press a key down to 2.1 mm when you press down and release it only to 1.9 mm when you release it is a huge advantage in some particular game, then I say that's a major flaw in the game.  That is not an interesting human skill to test.  If keyboards can mimic that effect, I say that's a good thing.  The game should encourage it so that the competition can be based on other, more interesting things like strategy or reaction times.

Vrika

Tiller said:

I think some folks are confused as to what rapid trigger is.

They did not ban rapid trigger. They banned a feature that Razer calls Snap Tap Mode:





Source: https://www.razer.com/eu-en/technology/snap-tap-mode


Their problem was those situations where pressing D stopped signal for A, overriding developer's decision that changing movement to opposite direction requires both releasing current movement key and pressing new key.

Thus Valve's decision "...If you have a keyboard that includes an input-automation feature (e.g., "Snap Tap Mode"), be sure to disable the feature before you join a match in order to avoid any interruption to your matches"

Full Valve's decision can be read on:
  https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/730/view/6500469346429600836

The reason this has turned into rapid trigger discussion is because rapid trigger keyboards can use feature like "Snap Tap Mode" more effectively. With them you were able set D to trigger and untrigger with 0.1 mm movement. Then send the game extremely rapid commands A, D, A, D, A, D by keeping A constantly pressed down and vibrating your finger on D so that it would move minimally back and forth.

Quizzical

Are joysticks similarly banned?  Especially with a minimal dead zone, that would let you go back and forth between left and right with only slight movement of the joystick.  And unlike A/D keys, this is only one physical toggle.

A good control scheme should try to translate a player deciding to do something into the game understanding what the player wants with as little fumbling with physical hardware as possible.  Any sort of "you must press these two buttons at the same time" or "you must press these buttons in this order with precisely this timing" should permit players to collapse it into a single keypress whenever possible.

Asm0deus

Vrika said:

Valve did the right thing.

Normally game developers decide what happens when you try to do simultaneously actions that can't be all done at the same time. As most common example, if the user is pressing A to strafe left, then decides to also press D without releasing A, the devs decide whether that will cause the character to stop strafing, keep strafing left, or start strafing right.

If the game allows macros then devs don't get to decide, because the user can write macros like "When A and D are both pressed down, send only the one that was pressed later to the game".

Multiplayer games normally do not allow macros. But some keyboard manufacturers decided to add that kind of macro as in-build functionality to their keyboards, and for a while it was allowed. Now Valve updated their policy to ban that kind of automation. I think they did the right thing.

The problem with all this is that is isn't a macro just an improved keyboard mechanism.

Nanfoodle

I get it why some would be upset about this but when you look at game health. It can be fine lines. Much like the guy that broke all the records swimming. His swim suit was banned. All it did was help his body be more stream line but it only did it better then spandex.

Question is how many people are at the top of the charts using these keyboard? My guess is allot. When you know your getting beat consistently not because you have skills. That drives away players. 

Vrika

Quizzical said:

Are joysticks similarly banned?  Especially with a minimal dead zone, that would let you go back and forth between left and right with only slight movement of the joystick.  And unlike A/D keys, this is only one physical toggle.

A good control scheme should try to translate a player deciding to do something into the game understanding what the player wants with as little fumbling with physical hardware as possible.  Any sort of "you must press these two buttons at the same time" or "you must press these buttons in this order with precisely this timing" should permit players to collapse it into a single keypress whenever possible.

FPS game are all about passing the dexterity check to aim, instead of binding a key for "make headshot". Because of that it makes sense to implement some kind of dexterity check for dodging too, even if it's a bit artificially done, since if everyone were able to dodge around too equally either the amateurs would have too much trouble hitting each other or the pros would be too effective at hitting each other.

It's not an ideal solution. It's a practical one.

Scot

I think it is questionable how much advantage a player is getting from this, but I believe in a level playing field, anything that might question that needs to be removed. Maybe it is not cheating now but down the line it could be.

Xiaoki

Scot said:

I think it is questionable how much advantage a player is getting from this, but I believe in a level playing field, anything that might question that needs to be removed. Maybe it is not cheating now but down the line it could be.

It gave a lot of advantage in Counter Strike 2 and that's about it.

It gave a slight advantage by making counter strafing a little easier but the real advantage was from jumps.

When you jump if you strafe left and right really fast you confuse the game and it gives you a mid air speed boost allowing you to make longer jumps.

Snap Tap made this a LOT easier.

Valve could have fixed the game physics to remove the mid air speed boosts but they didn't.

MMOExposed

Tiller said:

It would seem that games are now banning players from using certain rapid trigger features on their KB. I honestly never turn rapid trigger feature on when it comes to my keyboard, so I can't speak to this, although I do have custom actuation settings for the MMOs I play. 

I wonder if more games are going to be detecting this feature, and all out banning certain hardware profiles all together. All this comes from the fact that a few players started complaining that skills it took them years to develop playing, are easily now accomplished via a setting in KB software for their hardware. 

Lets face it, these games are full of cheaters, and they go undetected all the time, So why did they zero in on a Keyboard setting and not just normal shitty cheaters?

Had to search for some videos to explain  how this socd thing was cheating. Now I understand. 

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Quizzical said:

Making it so that fighting against an awkward control scheme is an important part of player skill is bad game design.  Developers should try to make it as easy as possible for players to get their characters to move in the way that the player intended.  If this gives a significant enough advantage in some particular game to be arguably cheating, then that's a huge flaw in the game, not a problem with the keyboard.

But that's not what happened here right? It was about using keyboard to trigger fire faster than some player's skill permits, nothing about awkward control schemes.

Wouldn't that be easy to fix by just programing a minimum time between shots?


Oh well.. just saw this was a bit of a necro I got sucked into...