Consoles should not come close to the costs of a PC. The whole idea behind them used to be the portability and the price at lower graphics than a PC. However if they are going to cost a lot it is simply not worth it.
I love my PC because I enjoy the extra fidelity and graphics I can push but I do upgrade every 5-6 years and try to get my next PC to last that long with a small drop in graphics on newer games as the PC ages.
With more and more JRPGs coming to the PC (thank heavens that the Japanese developers finally realising what a goldmine they were missing out on) we can get to push the graphics with mods and take the remasters or remakes and enjoy them on a good graphics card.
There is no FOMO issue here unless you're specifically referring to the exclusives but hey I even wait on new PC games until a price drop. My days of salivating over a new game at 70Euros is long gone.
If the rumored AMD Strix Halo part is real, then people will be able to make small form factor PCs out of roughly game console class hardware. I'm very curious to see how that will be priced, and if it's even real.
The usual game console business model is that you roughly break even or maybe even lose money on selling the consoles, but make it up by taking a cut of software sales. However, you don't get any extra software sales from people upgrading from a PS5 to PS5 Pro, so Sony doesn't actually want you to upgrade unless they are priced high enough to make money off of every console they sell.
I have 2 PS5s
I have zero interest in this.
Not sure, other than the FOMO crowd, what group they are going for here.
I also wonder if it will be worth it from an ROI perspective.
I think they are going mostly for those who are buying a new console anyway. People constantly buy new consoles, and this should get many big spenders to choose Playstation instead of XBox.
Whether anyone who already plays PS5 upgrades or not is less important, since consoles have low profit margin anyway. More of the profit is made through selling software, services and accessories to existing owners.
Agreed but what number of consumers does that number represent? PS5 has sold tremendously well already. If their target demographic is those without a console or are looking to buy this or that they are going to struggle to deliver on their sales goals and will struggle to deliver on a favorable ROI. Add to this it is a $700 USD console. I am just not seeing it.
Pretty crazy to think you've single-handedly determined what Sonys entire marketing team wasn’t able to figure out in regards to their ROI with this product.
They’ve been releasing consoles for 30 years, every one of them a major success.
Thanks. I appreciate the support.
The increase in pricing for the current consoles, the increase in controller prices, the high price of the Pro console ($700 USD and higher in Europe and Japan)
Raising prices rarely goes over well with consumers. Sony is thinking we made it the price it is because we need to protect our margins and there is no other mid-cycle competition. Arrogance has limits and consumers speak with their wallets. Remember PS3 launch? PS3 stumbled out of the gate until they finally got their footing. Remember Jack Trenton saying the price of the PS3 was too high at $600? By June of 2008 Sony had lost over $3 billion because of the PS3 aggressive pricing. Will we see the PS5 Pro do the same thing? The consumers will speak, and time will show what the consumer think.
I have 2 PS5s
I have zero interest in this.
Not sure, other than the FOMO crowd, what group they are going for here.
I also wonder if it will be worth it from an ROI perspective.
I think they are going mostly for those who are buying a new console anyway. People constantly buy new consoles, and this should get many big spenders to choose Playstation instead of XBox.
Whether anyone who already plays PS5 upgrades or not is less important, since consoles have low profit margin anyway. More of the profit is made through selling software, services and accessories to existing owners.
Agreed but what number of consumers does that number represent? PS5 has sold tremendously well already. If their target demographic is those without a console or are looking to buy this or that they are going to struggle to deliver on their sales goals and will struggle to deliver on a favorable ROI. Add to this it is a $700 USD console. I am just not seeing it.
They are still selling more than a million consoles per month.
48,000+ on this one poll but there are poll after polls of people not seeming interested in what Sony is trying to do here. On top of that, the PS5 price went up in some regions and the controller prices just went up worldwide. Their revenue strategy is a bit confusing.
PS5 has sold 61.7 million units compared to PS4's 117 million units. PS5 sales should be slowing down since it's already older product, but they should still have potential to sell more.
Also one of your links said that PS5 sales forecast for this fiscal year is 18 million units, so if anything my earlier comment about them selling more than a million consoles per month was conservative estimation.
Also I don't understand why you're complaining that my numbers aren't current. The link I posted has same numbers as both of the links you posted.
EDIT: Did you perhaps miss that the Q1 2024 means Q1 for Sony's fiscal year, which is April - June. It does not mean January - March even if it's named Q1 because fiscal years are not the same as calendar years /EDIT.
You are arguing numbers to defend your position but the numbers are clear. Console sales are down. The numbers prove that.
So again, you think the market they are going for is people who do not have a console but want one? I'm not sure I can align with that. Nor do I think Sony would.
A new, more expensive way, to play your PS3, PS4, and PS5 games.
Look, mid-cycle is fine but make it $100 over the regular model.
The PS4 Pro did that, of course it had a disk drive. They sold over 20 million units of the PS4 Pro, eventually. (PSVR may have something to do with that.) No issue with a mid-cycle refresh. It is the aggressive pricing in conjunction with other pricing concerns recently that give pause.
I have 2 PS5s
I have zero interest in this.
Not sure, other than the FOMO crowd, what group they are going for here.
I also wonder if it will be worth it from an ROI perspective.
I think they are going mostly for those who are buying a new console anyway. People constantly buy new consoles, and this should get many big spenders to choose Playstation instead of XBox.
Whether anyone who already plays PS5 upgrades or not is less important, since consoles have low profit margin anyway. More of the profit is made through selling software, services and accessories to existing owners.
Agreed but what number of consumers does that number represent? PS5 has sold tremendously well already. If their target demographic is those without a console or are looking to buy this or that they are going to struggle to deliver on their sales goals and will struggle to deliver on a favorable ROI. Add to this it is a $700 USD console. I am just not seeing it.
They are still selling more than a million consoles per month.
48,000+ on this one poll but there are poll after polls of people not seeming interested in what Sony is trying to do here. On top of that, the PS5 price went up in some regions and the controller prices just went up worldwide. Their revenue strategy is a bit confusing.
PS5 has sold 61.7 million units compared to PS4's 117 million units. PS5 sales should be slowing down since it's already older product, but they should still have potential to sell more.
Also one of your links said that PS5 sales forecast for this fiscal year is 18 million units, so if anything my earlier comment about them selling more than a million consoles per month was conservative estimation.
Also I don't understand why you're complaining that my numbers aren't current. The link I posted has same numbers as both of the links you posted.
EDIT: Did you perhaps miss that the Q1 2024 means Q1 for Sony's fiscal year, which is April - June. It does not mean January - March even if it's named Q1 because fiscal years are not the same as calendar years /EDIT.
You are arguing numbers to defend your position but the numbers are clear. Console sales are down. The numbers prove that.
So again, you think the market they are going for is people who do not have a console but want one? I'm not sure I can align with that. Nor do I think Sony would.
It's mid-cycle for current console generation. I agree that the sales are going down, in all likelihood they will be going (on average) slowly downwards until the release of PS6. But there will still be enough sales that Sony will sell millions of PS5 Pros.
I think you are seriously overestimating how many consoles Sony needs to sell to make new version worth the while. PS4 Pro only sold 14.5 million units during its lifetime. PS5 Pro has a chance of reaching similar numbers, and if it does Sony will probably be really happy with that.
The usual game console business model is that you roughly break even or maybe even lose money on selling the consoles, but make it up by taking a cut of software sales. However, you don't get any extra software sales from people upgrading from a PS5 to PS5 Pro, so Sony doesn't actually want you to upgrade unless they are priced high enough to make money off of every console they sell.
Even if they are priced so that Sony makes money out of each console sold, it's likely small profit compared to the large profit that Sony makes by taking a cut of software sales.
So regardless of whether Sony wants current PS5 owners to upgrade, new sales are most important.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
It would be interesting to see this price point inflation adjusted to previous releases. Honestly, everything has gone up by quite a bit.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
You are still only looks at a small number sold relative to the millions of consoles needed to sell for a breakeven scenario. Additionally, I wonder how many of those purchases were made by scalpers which is incredibly common in tech announcements like this.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
You are still only looks at a small number sold relative to the millions of consoles needed to sell for a breakeven scenario. Additionally, I wonder how many of those purchases were made by scalpers which is incredibly common in tech announcements like this.
Sony *tried* to do something with the scalping when the PS5 launched or shortly thereafter but failed totally. I understand a purchase is a purchase to them whether a person does it or some scalper bot they get their money but it was frustrating.
I was one of the folks jumping though hoops (or that's what it felt like), checking stock feeds for multiple vendors and eventually got one online 10 months later with a local Best Buy only because they restricted purchases to within the state / province, pausing the bots long enough to allow some humans to get them.
I have no interest in the PS5 Pro especially at its price point and doubt i will be jumping through hoops when the PS6 launches, will just wait until i can get one off the shelf dependant on the console value at the time.
If they want to bank on the software sales, they better start putting out software. The titles have dried up as of late for Sony.
Devs and publishers must pay Sony for every Playstation game they sell. It doesn't matter who made it, if it's something that's installed on Playstation, then the makers must give Sony a cut of the revenue.
The same also applies to Microsoft and XBox. Also Nintendo and Switch, and Apple and IPhones.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
It would be interesting to see this price point inflation adjusted to previous releases. Honestly, everything has gone up by quite a bit.
Saw a report yesterday showing how well this console really is being taken by Sony fans. The disk drive is selling out everywhere after the PS6 Pro showcase. Looks like Sony read their fan base better then we thought.
It would be interesting to see this price point inflation adjusted to previous releases. Honestly, everything has gone up by quite a bit.
these numbers dont really add up for one reason. The PS5 @ $606 included a disk drive and the vertical stand. You are now missing both at $699. So add $119 to that $699.
I find console gamers to be a lot like I-Phone owners. In a way it is FOMO but its missing out on the new shiny. I remember an old internet joke about some product that released a new version like double the price and its like "yes we know you have it but do you have it in red?" and sometimes that notion in quite accurate.
If they want to bank on the software sales, they better start putting out software. The titles have dried up as of late for Sony.
Devs and publishers must pay Sony for every Playstation game they sell. It doesn't matter who made it, if it's something that's installed on Playstation, then the makers must give Sony a cut of the revenue.
The same also applies to Microsoft and XBox. Also Nintendo and Switch, and Apple and IPhones.
You misunderstand the point. We are not talking the 30% from other companies IPs we are talking about their own. Sony announced in 2022 (Jim Ryan) that by FY2025 they will allocate 50/50 investment budget into new ip/existing IPs. Prior to this they have always balanced around 30% for new IPs increasing that has been an important strategy. They need these to pay off. (Having one new live service just shut down is not a good sign for this) Revenue has been fine but the weakness of the Yen contributes to that.
I am not saying it is all doom and gloom, but Sony has stumbled a few times in their gaming lifetime and this scenario currently looks to be another one. Ultimately, they will be fine, as their business is multilayered and not dependent on their gaming division, but declining console sales (down double digits) and sales of their IPs are not where they would like them to be based off of their 50/50 investment strategy, it is a good thing their PSN numbers are solid and they were willing to temporarily lower the price of the VR2 for sales growth. Now they just need the PS5 Pro to sell well and a few new IPs to take off.
I find console gamers to be a lot like I-Phone owners. In a way it is FOMO but its missing out on the new shiny. I remember an old internet joke about some product that released a new version like double the price and its like "yes we know you have it but do you have it in red?" and sometimes that notion in quite accurate.
I find console gamers to be a lot like I-Phone owners. In a way it is FOMO but its missing out on the new shiny. I remember an old internet joke about some product that released a new version like double the price and its like "yes we know you have it but do you have it in red?" and sometimes that notion in quite accurate.
In all fairness, GPU buyers can be the same.
Absolutely agree. Many companies may a serious profit off of that innovator/early adopter "new shiny" purchasing mentality (to put it in marketing terms). I use to buy new GPUs as soon as they came out but began to realize the jumps in quality were not enough to justify the cost. Now I just wait until my PC struggles to play a game I want to play.
Comments
What's FOMO about this?
I love my PC because I enjoy the extra fidelity and graphics I can push but I do upgrade every 5-6 years and try to get my next PC to last that long with a small drop in graphics on newer games as the PC ages.
With more and more JRPGs coming to the PC (thank heavens that the Japanese developers finally realising what a goldmine they were missing out on) we can get to push the graphics with mods and take the remasters or remakes and enjoy them on a good graphics card.
There is no FOMO issue here unless you're specifically referring to the exclusives but hey I even wait on new PC games until a price drop. My days of salivating over a new game at 70Euros is long gone.
The increase in pricing for the current consoles, the increase in controller prices, the high price of the Pro console ($700 USD and higher in Europe and Japan)
Raising prices rarely goes over well with consumers.
Sony is thinking we made it the price it is because we need to protect our margins and there is no other mid-cycle competition.
Arrogance has limits and consumers speak with their wallets.
Remember PS3 launch?
PS3 stumbled out of the gate until they finally got their footing.
Remember Jack Trenton saying the price of the PS3 was too high at $600?
By June of 2008 Sony had lost over $3 billion because of the PS3 aggressive pricing.
Will we see the PS5 Pro do the same thing?
The consumers will speak, and time will show what the consumer think.
Console sales are down. The numbers prove that.
So again, you think the market they are going for is people who do not have a console but want one?
I'm not sure I can align with that.
Nor do I think Sony would.
Look, mid-cycle is fine but make it $100 over the regular model.
The PS4 Pro did that, of course it had a disk drive.
They sold over 20 million units of the PS4 Pro, eventually. (PSVR may have something to do with that.)
No issue with a mid-cycle refresh.
It is the aggressive pricing in conjunction with other pricing concerns recently that give pause.
I think you are seriously overestimating how many consoles Sony needs to sell to make new version worth the while. PS4 Pro only sold 14.5 million units during its lifetime. PS5 Pro has a chance of reaching similar numbers, and if it does Sony will probably be really happy with that.
So regardless of whether Sony wants current PS5 owners to upgrade, new sales are most important.
Honestly, everything has gone up by quite a bit.
Additionally, I wonder how many of those purchases were made by scalpers which is incredibly common in tech announcements like this.
The same also applies to Microsoft and XBox. Also Nintendo and Switch, and Apple and IPhones.
PS1: $611 (1995) PS2: $546 (2000) PS3: $778 (2006) PS4: $538 (2013) PS4 Pro: $522 (2016) PS5: $606 (2020) PS5 Pro: $699 (2024)
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Sony announced in 2022 (Jim Ryan) that by FY2025 they will allocate 50/50 investment budget into new ip/existing IPs.
Prior to this they have always balanced around 30% for new IPs
increasing that has been an important strategy.
They need these to pay off.
(Having one new live service just shut down is not a good sign for this) Revenue has been fine but the weakness of the Yen contributes to that.
I am not saying it is all doom and gloom, but Sony has stumbled a few times in their gaming lifetime and this scenario currently looks to be another one. Ultimately, they will be fine, as their business is multilayered and not dependent on their gaming division, but declining console sales (down double digits) and sales of their IPs are not where they would like them to be based off of their 50/50 investment strategy, it is a good thing their PSN numbers are solid and they were willing to temporarily lower the price of the VR2 for sales growth. Now they just need the PS5 Pro to sell well and a few new IPs to take off.