he said "WoW will lose to EQ2 in the long run trust me, at the last 6 month subscription pay end period the subscriber rate for WoW dropped by over 300k and it'll keep going down. Why? it's a dumbed down MMO that gets very boring very fast. "
Then I said " What is your source? I doubt very highly that WoW subscriber rate has dropped be 300k ( that would be more then the unique subscribers playing EQ2 according http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html. ) In recent press release from Blizzard there are about 4 million subscribers playing WOW , 1 million in the USA alone. The message is from SOE's Director of Corporate Communications , Chris Kramer. He has admitted that "World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," but time does change things.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the title of this thread is about WoW owning EQ2. Or, more accurately, about the statement below:
"World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," said Chris Kramer,
So why is everyone talking about which game is better?
This thread is about WoWs huge number of sales. You can debate WHY they have so many subs, or that MAYBE an upcoming title will surpass or supercede WoW, but thats not the point.
The point is that an SOE spokemans admitted what is simply a fact, that WoW is out-selling it's competitors, and he happened to use PVP gaming palance ("owned") to express it.
Originally posted by nubbins first off L2 has the most subscribers not WoW
Can you back that up with empirical evidence? The best evidence we have right now (http://www.mmogchart.com/) suggests that L1 and 2 have about 2million subs each, and those numbers are difficult to verify due to the way internet gaming cafes in Korea give a free Lineage account to ANYONE that signs up to use their service.
Originally posted by Billius8 Vanguard will own WOW. WOW thrives because there is nothing out there to really challenge it right now. Many, many folks are simply hanging out in WOW to get their MMORPG fix until better games come out in 2006. Wait and see.
I agree with the second sentence, but not the first. Vanguard will successful enough to makes it's mark, but I don't see it topping even a mliion sales. It will be too hardcore to draw away WoWs market share.
Originally posted by Cydone Its like saying Britney Spears is good music or any other crap pop/new-metal plastic coming out. Its damn successful, thanks to modern media, and because of teenage anxiety and fear of not being identified with the majority. Not sayin wow is anywhere near as sucky as what successes we are seeiing in the music industry, im just making this point for people who confuse the words "success" with "quality", in our world of make believe, they rarely walk hand in hand... wow could be and exception though..
You're right. MTV = THE DEVIL. MTV is sole responsable for destroying good music. Music is all about making money now... not making passionate music.
This doesn't mean that Band shouldn't make money... of course not... but for some "artists" music is just a way of making money, and not also expressioning yourself artistically as it should be.
To quote school of rock: And there used to be a way to stick it to the Man. It was called rock 'n roll, but guess what, oh no, the Man ruined that, too, with a little thing called MTV! So don't waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome 'cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul.
This means, it's difficult to ride against the wind. Hey I'm being teased because I'm listening to Metal and because I don't play WoW in my class!!
It's because companies like MTV, EA and SoE that's destroying true quality.
Making games is all about making money now. EA and SoE is a perfect example of this. Of course developers and publishers should earn a lot of money by making games, but truely good games are only make by passionate developers. Just like music. Just like Blizzard do.
Every single game Blizzard has released has been something special, because they are all passionate developers, but now they can see the buisness opportunities, and then they are getting greedy. Actually if somebody deserves to get greedy, its Blizzard... but they should keep it at a limit.
Blizzard shall return to the true game development when they start making Starcraft 2!!
Originally posted by Billius8 Vanguard will own WOW. WOW thrives because there is nothing out there to really challenge it right now. Many, many folks are simply hanging out in WOW to get their MMORPG fix until better games come out in 2006. Wait and see.
LOL. I'll be a cold day in Texas before I play another Brad McQuaid game. EQ was bad enough, never again, NEVER!
Well considering that EQ 1 set the standard and was number one for several years. And also that many long time EQ players both current and former seem to agree that the best days in EQ were pre Shadows of Luclin when Brad was still around....I would say that the next "Brad McQuaid" game will be pretty damn good. EQ only started to go downhill after he left imo. Plus Brad and his company Sigil games has recruited alot of talent from other games. I also like his attitude of admiting that some mistakes have been made in the past and he intends to do everything that he can to make the best, most immersive game possible. He not only has all his experience with EQ but he has also had the benefit of watching WoW, EQ2, DaoC, etc. come out. Watching, learning from all there various sucesses and failures. Thats quite the advantage.
Will it be as mainstream as WoW? I don't know, probably not because it will not be a dumbed down easier game. But for that I am glad because it will help cut down on some of the stupid punks that play these games. I have no doubt though that it will be a very sucessful game and offer a nice alternative to WoW. Plus having an amazing artist like Keith Parkinson directing your art department for the game is a nice bonus too
Originally posted by Billius8 Vanguard will own WOW. WOW thrives because there is nothing out there to really challenge it right now. Many, many folks are simply hanging out in WOW to get their MMORPG fix until better games come out in 2006. Wait and see.
To Homage the Late Johnnie Cocheran " If its not owned by SOE, you know you gotta go!"
And what are you going to tell us next that OJ really didnt kill his ex-wife and Goldman?!
Your obession with SoE is really getting out of hand. I think you need to seek professional help man, because you are losing it big time. No joke, do it before its too late.
And what are you going to tell us next that OJ really didnt kill his ex-wife and Goldman?!
Your obession with SoE is really getting out of hand. I think you need to seek professional help man, because you are losing it big time. No joke, do it before its too late.
Originally posted by JestorRodo A quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/arts/design/06worl.html "World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," said Chris Kramer, a spokesman for Sony Online Entertainment, buyer of Matrix Online and one of Blizzard's chief rivals. "Look, Matrix Online is good, but it's like being in the early 90's and trying to put a fighting game up against Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter; it's just not going to happen. There are a lot of other online games that are just sucking wind right now because so many people are playing WOW." I wonder if they would like to confess their other sins at this time?
I dont agree with this guy, Kramer. Most of WoW's population are new to MMOG gaming. Its also a high tech playground for kiddies to come abroad and play. The kiddies shouldnt be the concern nor does the new people who come aboard playing MMOGs. Almost every other game on the market now are having existing subscribers. Almost everyone who are playing a MMOG are either from ultima online, EQ, AC or AC2, or anarchy online. The veteran players is what everyone else got. WoW is being saturated with new players who havent even played a MMOG before.
Everyone else should be optimisic what WoW is doing for the industry. Once the game starts to sink, like the titanic, alot of these players will seek other games. Probably even costing a little prosperity for the whole industry.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Originally posted by JestorRodo A quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/arts/design/06worl.html "World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," said Chris Kramer, a spokesman for Sony Online Entertainment, buyer of Matrix Online and one of Blizzard's chief rivals. "Look, Matrix Online is good, but it's like being in the early 90's and trying to put a fighting game up against Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter; it's just not going to happen. There are a lot of other online games that are just sucking wind right now because so many people are playing WOW." I wonder if they would like to confess their other sins at this time?
I dont agree with this guy, Kramer. Most of WoW's population are new to MMOG gaming. Its also a high tech playground for kiddies to come abroad and play. The kiddies shouldnt be the concern nor does the new people who come aboard playing MMOGs. Almost every other game on the market now are having existing subscribers. Almost everyone who are playing a MMOG are either from ultima online, EQ, AC or AC2, or anarchy online. The veteran players is what everyone else got. WoW is being saturated with new players who havent even played a MMOG before.
Everyone else should be optimisic what WoW is doing for the industry. Once the game starts to sink, like the titanic, alot of these players will seek other games. Probably even costing a little prosperity for the whole industry.
Er this Guy , Kramer is SOE's Director of Corporate Communications perhaps you would like the opinions of SOE expressed by George Costanza or maybe NEWMAN!
Since I have made 60 there is a lot of gameplay to be had but its my hope that an expansion is in the works or free patches that would allow a player to advance higher. if that occurs before Christmas, WoW will be number one for the New Year . " Sorry , no Newbies for you , NEXT".
Originally posted by Ranma13 People seem to have a misconception regarding the correlation between the number of subscribers and fun factor of the game. This correlation only applies when the subscriber numbers are low; once you're breaking 10,000 subscribers or so, it doesn't matter much anymore. Nobody can deny World of Warcraft is successful. But does that make it fun? Would you say Lineage 2 is fun because it has 2 million subscribers worldwide? Would you say EVE Online is a failure because it only has 60,000 subscribers? Everquest II has over 250,000 subscribers, a strong showing of players. World of Warcraft has over a million (in the United States). Does that make WoW better than EQ2? Can a game that caters to the casual players audience be compared to one that caters to a wholly different audience (hardcore gamer)? Also, I find it infinitely amusing that WoW fanboys always have to 'prove' that WoW is better than EQ2. Do they really have nothing better to do on their hands than try to find any shred of 'evidence' that WoW is better? And why is it EQ2 all the time, never any other MMORPG? It's as if they admit EQ2 is competition...
I was going to post a response, but this is a very good post that summarizes what I was going to say. I am a big SOE fan since Everquest. I am a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft II. Both companies are very successful and have some great games. Personally, I like Everquest II the best. For me it is most fun. I am more of a hardcore type of player when it comes to mmorpgs, and I prefer it's more complex gameplay, not to mention the more mature community.
The point is that mmorpgs have been trying to appeal to everyone, especially lately. It makes sense, becaue a mmorpg like WoW which does appeal to many is making a lot of money for Blizzard. I am hoping that the future of mmorpgs is in the structure that SOE is setting up.
SOE now has several mmorgps it is running, Everquest, Everquest II, Star Wars Galaxies, and The Matrix Online. There all have their differences, but I hope in the future, the company can offer games that are drastically different, aiming to please a certain type of player. Maybe they can release a PvP mmorpg, with emphasis on war between players. They may make a game especially for roleplayers. There can be a game for crafters with a complex economy, or a mmorpg for the hardcore, with strict death penalties and a difficult combat system, and a mmorpg that is easy and fun, like WoW.
We never really see this because each game must be funded and it is expected to make a certain amount of money. This means it must appeal to the most amount of players. If companies start to do what SOE has done, which is gather a few mmorpgs under their belt and collect a single see to play them all, then I think that the actual games can improve. It will allow the developers to be more focused and keep their vision of the game intact without having to worry about catering to all sorts of players, because there may be another mmorpg in the company line-up that someone can choose from.
On the other hand, the competition between companies like Blizzard and SOE has done wonders for the games. It has made them both better as each company learns from the other and tries to create the best possible game they can. After playing both EQ2 and WoW since the beginning, I can see that both companies are dedicated to improving. Whether the game has 1 million subscribers or 60,000, it all comes down to preference and fun.
Comments
he said "WoW will lose to EQ2 in the long run trust me, at the last 6 month subscription pay end period the subscriber rate for WoW dropped by over 300k and it'll keep going down. Why? it's a dumbed down MMO that gets very boring very fast. "
Then I said " What is your source? I doubt very highly that WoW subscriber rate has dropped be 300k ( that would be more then the unique subscribers playing EQ2 according http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html. ) In recent press release from Blizzard there are about 4 million subscribers playing WOW , 1 million in the USA alone. The message is from SOE's Director of Corporate Communications , Chris Kramer. He has admitted that "World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," but time does change things.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
Correct me if I'm wrong but the title of this thread is about WoW owning EQ2. Or, more accurately, about the statement below:
"World of Warcraft is completely owning the online game space right now," said Chris Kramer,
So why is everyone talking about which game is better?
This thread is about WoWs huge number of sales. You can debate WHY they have so many subs, or that MAYBE an upcoming title will surpass or supercede WoW, but thats not the point.
The point is that an SOE spokemans admitted what is simply a fact, that WoW is out-selling it's competitors, and he happened to use PVP gaming palance ("owned") to express it.
Can you back that up with empirical evidence? The best evidence we have right now (http://www.mmogchart.com/) suggests that L1 and 2 have about 2million subs each, and those numbers are difficult to verify due to the way internet gaming cafes in Korea give a free Lineage account to ANYONE that signs up to use their service.
WoW has 4 million subs, twice as many.
Maybe you have a link to more accurate info.
You're right. MTV = THE DEVIL. MTV is sole responsable for destroying good music. Music is all about making money now... not making passionate music.
This doesn't mean that Band shouldn't make money... of course not... but for some "artists" music is just a way of making money, and not also expressioning yourself artistically as it should be.
To quote school of rock: And there used to be a way to stick it to the Man. It was called rock 'n roll, but guess what, oh no, the Man ruined that, too, with a little thing called MTV! So don't waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome 'cause the Man is just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul.
This means, it's difficult to ride against the wind. Hey I'm being teased because I'm listening to Metal and because I don't play WoW in my class!!
It's because companies like MTV, EA and SoE that's destroying true quality.
Making games is all about making money now. EA and SoE is a perfect example of this. Of course developers and publishers should earn a lot of money by making games, but truely good games are only make by passionate developers. Just like music. Just like Blizzard do.
Every single game Blizzard has released has been something special, because they are all passionate developers, but now they can see the buisness opportunities, and then they are getting greedy. Actually if somebody deserves to get greedy, its Blizzard... but they should keep it at a limit.
Blizzard shall return to the true game development when they start making Starcraft 2!!
--------------------------------------------
Well considering that EQ 1 set the standard and was number one for several years. And also that many long time EQ players both current and former seem to agree that the best days in EQ were pre Shadows of Luclin when Brad was still around....I would say that the next "Brad McQuaid" game will be pretty damn good. EQ only started to go downhill after he left imo. Plus Brad and his company Sigil games has recruited alot of talent from other games. I also like his attitude of admiting that some mistakes have been made in the past and he intends to do everything that he can to make the best, most immersive game possible. He not only has all his experience with EQ but he has also had the benefit of watching WoW, EQ2, DaoC, etc. come out. Watching, learning from all there various sucesses and failures. Thats quite the advantage.
Will it be as mainstream as WoW? I don't know, probably not because it will not be a dumbed down easier game. But for that I am glad because it will help cut down on some of the stupid punks that play these games. I have no doubt though that it will be a very sucessful game and offer a nice alternative to WoW. Plus having an amazing artist like Keith Parkinson directing your art department for the game is a nice bonus too
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
And what are you going to tell us next that OJ really didnt kill his ex-wife and Goldman?!
Your obession with SoE is really getting out of hand. I think you need to seek professional help man, because you are losing it big time. No joke, do it before its too late.
And what are you going to tell us next that OJ really didnt kill his ex-wife and Goldman?!
Your obession with SoE is really getting out of hand. I think you need to seek professional help man, because you are losing it big time. No joke, do it before its too late.
I am Fine, er BarryManilow ( Muahhaha)!
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
I dont agree with this guy, Kramer. Most of WoW's population are new to MMOG gaming. Its also a high tech playground for kiddies to come abroad and play. The kiddies shouldnt be the concern nor does the new people who come aboard playing MMOGs. Almost every other game on the market now are having existing subscribers. Almost everyone who are playing a MMOG are either from ultima online, EQ, AC or AC2, or anarchy online. The veteran players is what everyone else got. WoW is being saturated with new players who havent even played a MMOG before.
Everyone else should be optimisic what WoW is doing for the industry. Once the game starts to sink, like the titanic, alot of these players will seek other games. Probably even costing a little prosperity for the whole industry.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
I dont agree with this guy, Kramer. Most of WoW's population are new to MMOG gaming. Its also a high tech playground for kiddies to come abroad and play. The kiddies shouldnt be the concern nor does the new people who come aboard playing MMOGs. Almost every other game on the market now are having existing subscribers. Almost everyone who are playing a MMOG are either from ultima online, EQ, AC or AC2, or anarchy online. The veteran players is what everyone else got. WoW is being saturated with new players who havent even played a MMOG before.
Everyone else should be optimisic what WoW is doing for the industry. Once the game starts to sink, like the titanic, alot of these players will seek other games. Probably even costing a little prosperity for the whole industry.
Er this Guy , Kramer is SOE's Director of Corporate Communications perhaps you would like the opinions of SOE expressed by George Costanza or maybe NEWMAN!
Since I have made 60 there is a lot of gameplay to be had but its my hope that an expansion is in the works or free patches that would allow a player to advance higher. if that occurs before Christmas, WoW will be number one for the New Year . " Sorry , no Newbies for you , NEXT".
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
I was going to post a response, but this is a very good post that summarizes what I was going to say. I am a big SOE fan since Everquest. I am a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft II. Both companies are very successful and have some great games. Personally, I like Everquest II the best. For me it is most fun. I am more of a hardcore type of player when it comes to mmorpgs, and I prefer it's more complex gameplay, not to mention the more mature community.
The point is that mmorpgs have been trying to appeal to everyone, especially lately. It makes sense, becaue a mmorpg like WoW which does appeal to many is making a lot of money for Blizzard. I am hoping that the future of mmorpgs is in the structure that SOE is setting up.
SOE now has several mmorgps it is running, Everquest, Everquest II, Star Wars Galaxies, and The Matrix Online. There all have their differences, but I hope in the future, the company can offer games that are drastically different, aiming to please a certain type of player. Maybe they can release a PvP mmorpg, with emphasis on war between players. They may make a game especially for roleplayers. There can be a game for crafters with a complex economy, or a mmorpg for the hardcore, with strict death penalties and a difficult combat system, and a mmorpg that is easy and fun, like WoW.
We never really see this because each game must be funded and it is expected to make a certain amount of money. This means it must appeal to the most amount of players. If companies start to do what SOE has done, which is gather a few mmorpgs under their belt and collect a single see to play them all, then I think that the actual games can improve. It will allow the developers to be more focused and keep their vision of the game intact without having to worry about catering to all sorts of players, because there may be another mmorpg in the company line-up that someone can choose from.
On the other hand, the competition between companies like Blizzard and SOE has done wonders for the games. It has made them both better as each company learns from the other and tries to create the best possible game they can. After playing both EQ2 and WoW since the beginning, I can see that both companies are dedicated to improving. Whether the game has 1 million subscribers or 60,000, it all comes down to preference and fun.