The answer is no because the fans would let either company walk all over them as usual and both game companies know this. Reason WoW is considered better with less bugs is their market is mostly Asia and asian fans arent blind fanbois like americans. If a game is messed up they will walk. One reason the japanese release of SWG went over so "well".
Originally posted by admriker444 droids stop responding to command. they wont come if you call. Droids will sometimes suddenly take off in opposite direction for no reason.
These two, at least, have been around in some form or another since release. My original Probot had that issue at times. Would stop responding and just sit there looking stupid.
Kai
Yep, and thats why its shocking to me that anyone sides with SOE. Almost all the issues I have with DE are from launch 2+ years ago. And they arent fixing things. They put out 3 so-called fixes with a publish. 2 wont actually fix the issue. One sorta does. But other additions to the publish create 5 more bugs or bring back old ones.
I suspect most that think like grapevine just dont pay attention or are too busy playing the flavor of the month professions to realize why everyone told them to pick that profession...ie it sorta works. If this werent the case, every new player to SWG would make the same mistakes we did and try squad leader out because it sounds cool (not knowing 80% of the prof is broken). Instead they get into a guild or meet someone who warns them away from the majority of those busted ones.
There's a reason why 75% of the players in game are BH / cm or Jedi and its not because they love those professions. Its because they're the ones with the least problems
Originally posted by Elnator They don't fix bugs? I'm sorry what??? They fix bugs all the time. They haven't fixed *ALL* the bugs but they do fix many. And more were fixed about 1 month ago (when I left) than at any time prior. It was much more stable, bug free and most quests were working when I left. Yes some still need work but they're slowly but surely getting around to fixing the broken stuff. Much faster lately, I might add.
Not going into all the quests that were broken before the CU, or even at BETA, since many of those have already been mentioned... About 25% of the quests pushed with RotW were broken. I have not seen ONE fix. They're sitting in my datapad, at least 5 of them. The biggest one is the freaking MINING SHIP quest which has haunted me for months. You know what? I bugged 3 of these IN BETA. MULTIPLE TIMES. They're not even addressing these except for the Mining ship, and it is STILL BROKEN IN TEST.
Not to mention the chat window bug.
The graphical lighting bug
And the transfer-faces bug
Have you SEEN how bugged this CH "fix" was?
They screw up the game? Hmm? What? That's BOTH companies fault. But personally I haven't seen anything that's "screwed up the game". Personally I liked most parts of the CU. There are a few things I don't like but overall it's much better than things were previously. The only "Screwups" in the game, as far as I'm concerned are: 1) They added jedi 2) They continue to add content FOR Jedi
Every bug.. every glitch.. every rubberband.. every broken quest.. every technical problem is 100% $OE's fault. You speak of some mighty QA guy at Lucasarts that is supposed to fix these things. LA only gives CONCEPTUAL direction, not coding. If the QA guy has the power to prevent bugs from being pushed live, they'd have never launched, pushed JTL, ROTW or the damned CU.
It's ok to not like the game but this blind hatred is rediculous. I don't play anymore, for various reasons. One of them being that I feel SWG is badly mis-managed by the two companies. But even I can admit that the game is fun and does appeal to a large number of people.
It used to be fun. It USED to be popular. It is horribly designed and run. You agree with that, and funny, that is what this very topic is about. YOU just cut them a hell of a lot more slack than I do.
But this blind hatred that makes you say the game is dying or the game isn't profitable or the game is closing and just flat out making up rumors about what the next expansion is going to be is just silly. The game is a fun game for many people and it's certainly profitable with over 250,000 subscribers. And I suggest you go read MMORPGCHART.COM before stating that those numbers are "made up" or "Just because of the station pass" They clearly state, on the site, that the numbers reported only appear to be people who have the pass and actually have SWG active on it. That's a valid count. If you have SWG active then you ARE a subscriber, AAP or not.
That count is wrong, because they add all the station pass subscribers to all the totals of all station pass games. They added them to MxO, they added them to SWG and they added them to EQ2. It's all Enron accounting... they do it because they are a publicly traded stock.
NOW FOR THE LIES. 1. We're going to revamp the Smugglers. Waiting over two years DOES make it a lie. We're still waiting. 2. We're welcoming any input on the Combat Upgrade. - I know of at least 20 people who were banned for criticizing the CU RATIONALLY on the suckboards. I was one of them. 3. Jedi are going to be rare. You will be lucky to see one. 4. See this cool Video at Fanfest? Sorry, we're not doing that. 5. John Schmedley on the CU... "What would really help us is to give us ideas on how we can improve the new system and cool things you would like to see us do in the near term. We aren't going back to the old system, but with your help I'm confident in a few weeks you're going to feel this was the right call. Obviously you are our customers, and you pay the bills around here... we're trying to make changes that are going to make your experience better in the long run. Please bear with us while we make that effort, and give us a little time to respond and address your concerns." That's a steaming pile. 6. John Schmedley claimed at push that there was only "a few vocal" people against the CU. There was over 100 thousand signatures AFTER they took off the goofy signatures. There were e-mails, snail-mails, PROTESTS IN GAME... but there was only "a few" LIAR
Also gameplay issues they lied about...The things they were supposed to "fix"
"You can solo a Krayt" It's MUCH easier now to do so.
"Promote grouping" Haha.. run off the players and there's no group.
"No Uber Template" Ask a BH/Rifle/CH or Jedi about that
"Combat more strategic" More than one mob will kill you
"Create class interdependance" By making Entertainers/Doctors/CH's/crafters weak and useless.
"More Star Wars feel" Yeah, Star Wars EPISODE 3... Grievous??? WTF?? Clone Armor??? Thousands of JEDI????
So NOT ONLY did $OE not listen to ANY of our complaints or feedback, but they FAILED TO DELIVER ON WHAT THEY SAID THE CU WAS ALL ABOUT.
That, and they made all entertainers useless. NO role in the game, and weak as hell because they can't be CL80.
Sure, you're not inconvienced by this.. you no longer play. You give $OE way too much credit.
And you're still a knob if you don't realize the Alderaan comment was sarcasm.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
There's a reason why 75% of the players in game are BH / cm or Jedi and its not because they love those professions. Its because they're the ones with the least problems
Actually I think its because Jedi versus NonJedi is the only real GCW at the moment.
No, frankly. Claiming that 99% were bugs, is inaccurate by far. Most were "we wish" or "it would be better if". I especially liked the smuggler one, which started June 2004. You do realise that dispite the whines, they are actually in the process of implementing smuggling missions (having only recently being announced)? Although what any of that has to do with bugs, is beyond me.
One Jedi, some DE issues, one pistoller bug and a couple for CH and Commando mostly. Nothing was game breaking or even to class them "broken", especially for combat professions, which is where this converstion started.
Since Droids are being compaired to WoW's pets. How about in WoW they loose all their specials, which they have in the wild. How they can't keep up with you, even when walking. How they are such aggro magnets (poor AI) hunters are told not to use them in instances. How in PvP they are totally ignored as they poof if their owner dies. I personally had an issue with my hunter's pet, it was constantly hungry and took an insane amount of food to keep it healthy.
Look, you WoW fanboys should just go back to your own forum and sleep peacfeully knowing that WoW classes have no issues (hunter's combat deadzone, for example). Go back your balanced game, where its isn't Horde Shaman and Rogues for the win, where server stability is supreme and the devs are so perfect that they don't infect the playerbase with a game breaking plague or drown players by transport disappearing upon zoning. Where in BB someone can't be attacked (by a player) and then killed by the npc guards for defending themselves.
Why don't you read your own official forum and read about the problems there, instead of being so blinded. Quit making comments on a game you honestly have no indication of its state, which quite franking is annoying as we always get an influx of "experts" when a SWG thread becomes a sticky.
WoW is a good game, but so is SWG. WoW has issues, SWG has issues. Get over it!!
There's a reason why 75% of the players in game are BH / cm or Jedi and its not because they love those professions. Its because they're the ones with the least problems
Actually I think its because Jedi versus NonJedi is the only real GCW at the moment.
Kai
Agreed, professions have nothing to do with it. Also to add, it by no means 75% Jedi/BH. You only need to stand around in a populated area to realise that.
Cmon Erillion, even you cant deny .... .. While I respect and even understand your passion for SOE, I can't believe you need "proof" or a link to the numerous lies by SOE. --> I was not talking about SOE. Here a poster wants to sell us rumours and opinions for hard facts. I say .. "show me the evidence, post the links ..." .... and no answer. As I suspected: Only hot wind and made up stuff.
4. Smuggler profession - how long have they openly promised a revamp for this profession ?
2 years. I know. I AM a Master Smuggler since 2003. I know EVERYTHING about this endless saga. I have done smuggling missions and have been hunted by BHs as smuggler for smuggling .... by doing player events. Not as easy as hard coded smuggler missions, but still a lot of fun. If the devs take their time revamping smuggler, use the other stuff they offer you (player event tools and perks) to do it anyway.
SOE has shown me they are run by a true corporation more interested in profits and image. They hire and use public relations officials to communicate with the players. Every statement they release can mean different things to many people (classic pr in action). This in turn starts arguments between players about what tiggs actually meant on pearl drops (one side says they're coming back, other says gone for good). These arguments are good for SOE as they deflect attention from them.
I concur. Capitalism in action. Smokescreening in action.
Blizzard on the other hand has always made a great game. Its quite obvious over there that they make a great game first and worry about marketing and public relations later.
Here is where you err. Blizzard = Vivendi. Vivendi = all about the bottom line = as good or bad as Sony.
Ok everyone is going to go back and forth on why their game is better over this game blah blah blah. Who cares because at the end of the day it is the $$$ that comes into a company that states if its a success or not. When the share holders of a company see the revenue coming in and looking at the competition is doing they are the ones who decide if a game is a success NOT YOU. If a game is not making any money no fanboi anywhere with any witty come back can save it. Fact is both are still around so both must be making a profit. But looking from just a business view and that is what it comes down to "business" these companies don't make these games for you to have fun. They make them to make money, if it didn't make money you wouldn't be playing them. On that note lets look at the numbers and draw who has the better game. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Blizzards - World of Warcraft - Over 4,000,000+ Customers
SOE - Star Wars Galaxies - A little over 250,000 Customers
Now Galaxies is not the only game out there by SOE so let's look at SOE complete player base.
SOE - EQ1 - 450,000 players
SWG 250,000+ players
EQ2 275,000+ players
Planetside - 55,000 players
Matrix - ??? Don't have these numbers
Everquest Online - 45,000 players
Ok if I missed any I appologize... comparing each company with a more accurate picture.
Now its hard to perfect number for SOE due to the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />All Access Pass but for arguments sake I will treat each number as a different person.
SOE player base - 1,075,000 - Does not include Matrix population
Blizzard player base - 4,000,000+
When I look at these numbers just from an economical perspective and I was invested in one of these companies I would say Blizzard is the clear winner here. Also before anyone says yeah well WoW is new well so is EQ2 and they peaked at around 325,000 players and Everquest 1 peaked a little over 500,000. Blizzard is clearly the winner when it comes to having a successful game. Fact is their one game smashed all of SOEs attempts combined.
Final Blizzard Wins and SOE will continue to do business because they are still not a failure, just not anywhere close to what Blizzard can do.
Originally posted by SixString Ok everyone is going to go back and forth on why their game is better over this game blah blah blah. Who cares because at the end of the day it is the $$$ that comes into a company that states if its a success or not. When the share holders of a company see the revenue coming in and looking at the competition is doing they are the ones who decide if a game is a success NOT YOU. If a game is not making any money no fanboi anywhere with any witty come back can save it. Fact is both are still around so both must be making a profit. But looking from just a business view and that is what it comes down to "business" these companies don't make these games for you to have fun. They make them to make money, if it didn't make money you wouldn't be playing them. On that note lets look at the numbers and draw who has the better game. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Blizzards - World of Warcraft - Over 4,000,000+ Customers SOE - Star Wars Galaxies - A little over 250,000 Customers Now Galaxies is not the only game out there by SOE so let's look at SOE complete player base. SOE - EQ1 - 450,000 players SWG 250,000+ players EQ2 275,000+ players Planetside - 55,000 players Matrix - ??? Don't have these numbers Everquest Online - 45,000 players Ok if I missed any I appologize... comparing each company with a more accurate picture. Now its hard to perfect number for SOE due to the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />All Access Pass but for arguments sake I will treat each number as a different person. SOE player base - 1,075,000 - Does not include Matrix population Blizzard player base - 4,000,000+ When I look at these numbers just from an economical perspective and I was invested in one of these companies I would say Blizzard is the clear winner here. Also before anyone says yeah well WoW is new well so is EQ2 and they peaked at around 325,000 players and Everquest 1 peaked a little over 500,000. Blizzard is clearly the winner when it comes to having a successful game. Fact is their one game smashed all of SOEs attempts combined. Final Blizzard Wins and SOE will continue to do business because they are still not a failure, just not anywhere close to what Blizzard can do.
Well someone will come here in a few and tell you its because WoW comes from a game and SWG comes from a movie. But in fact you showed that several of the items listed came from SOE games and did poorly.
The truth, most dont want to face, is Blizzard was smart. They went after that asian market with a relatively (I hate WoW and know its bugged but nothing as bad as SOE games) stable product. See Asians love their MMOs. They are downright fanatical about them. More so then we ever could be. And a MMO that is messed up and costs? Well they just wont have anything to do with it. Which is why you hear very little about the SWG release in Japan now. Why? The asians laughed it out of play.
They even have shows here dedicated to MMOs and they insult SWG on a regular basis as being the most UnStar Wars game ever even compared to games that definately arent Star Wars. I heard one host of a MMO show talking about the Mourning fiasco a few months back. He actually said too bad it wasnt SWG.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />When I look at these numbers just from an economical perspective and I was invested in one of these companies I would say Blizzard is the clear winner here.
I concur with your calculations in many points. However, some things you need to take into account too :
a) Time. 7 years SOE to 1.5 years Blizzard in the MMORPG business. If you think about that, SOE is still slightly ahead in pure total profit (especially when you take the profits from reinvesting the earlier profits into account). However, Blizzard will top that in 2006 at the current pace.
b) Development cost .. I cannot give hard facts, but SWG devs have hinted at industry sources claiming WoW to have cost twice as much as SWG in development. On the other hand, adding up development cost for the other SOE games may see SOE losing here.
c) Customer Retention .... SOE has a more stable customer base in total numbers .. much less than Blizzard, but more stable. Blizzard is still peaking and the nature of WoW makes it a bad long-duration game, so they have a high customer turnaround (at the moment compensated by new players, but that wont last forever). And they will lose a lot of people. In fact I know they do because EVE (and of course SWG too) is overrun by ex-WoW players. In EVE you "feel" this more than in SWG because there is only one shard and the chat channels are shard-wide ... so seeing dozens of new names in your avarage chat cannel (DAILY) - many still using the WoW lingo - means that the Blizzard players are spreading out over all the other MMORPGs at the moment. With or without leaving WoW. So ... Blizzard has to prove over the years that they can KEEP customers. SOE has already done so.
b) Development cost .. I cannot give hard facts, but SWG devs have hinted at industry sources claiming WoW to have cost twice as much as SWG in development. On the other hand, adding up development cost for the other SOE games may see SOE losing here.
SWG devs can hint all they like, but told us in beta whenit was at the 20 million mark, and the networking team and server farms were not yet in place. SWG took nearly $30 million to develop. WoW took about the same amount. The difference is WoW works, and is a game. Oh does it have bugs? So what? It still works for the most part, you aren't facing constant game-breaking issues like here and 5-day server rollbacks.
WoWs problems exist almost entirely in their refusal to get their networking straight, and do everything possible to eliminate the game-breaking lag. Aside from that...the game itself is superior to any others previous, and even though it is essentially still a 1st generation copy, it is the perfection of that old-school game play.
SWG devs can say what they want. The truth is, it took their largest development team in the industry BY FAR 3 years to release a totally broken product, and it's still not fixed after 5.
c) Customer Retention .... SOE has a more stable customer base in total numbers .. much less than Blizzard, but more stable.
Oh that's not true at all. The majority of the 4 million customer base of World of Warcraft came from their existing fans. The truth is, World of Warcraft has more customers in one product than SOE ever had in all theirs combined. Sure they have the largest turn-around. But what is it...percentage wise?
I think SOE has more turn-around than any other serious company in this respect.
Competition is good for the genre !
Lying about your competition is not.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I don't ever recall anyone lying about the competition. WoW is a good game for those new to the genre. For vets it's a snooze fest once you reach 60. Every WoW player I know has stated that they'll probably play something else "soon" that WoW is only fun till you hit 60, etc. I played in Beta so I know this was at least true then and I have no reason to doubt what my co-workers and friends tell me.
Bottom line: WoW is GREAT for the industry. It opened the eyes of millions of new MMORPG players to the genre and many will move on to other established games. Giving some much needed boosts in subscribers and others just topping them off.
By the way, your numbers for EQ2 are off. Per a New York Times news article EQ2 is over 500,000 subscribers worldwide now and WoW is over 4.5 million.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
SWG devs have hinted at industry sources claiming WoW to have cost twice as much as SWG in development.
Oh, I think this is a lie of tremendous magnitiude.
Either the devs are lying, or Erillion is...
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
May I draw your attention to my previous post and the words "... I cannot give hard facts, ...". It may be a lie, I dont know. I only heard hints ... and say so ...
But YOU are the one that says people should be more thorough readers :-)
Originally posted by Erillion May I draw your attention to my previous post and the words "... I cannot give hard facts, ...". It may be a lie, I dont know. I only heard hints ... and say so ... But YOU are the one that says people should be more thorough readers :-) Have fun Erillion
That's right they should be. And they should also learn to read between the lines when SOE says anything.
If they had something good to report, you can bet your spinal column they would market it worldwide as some great victory of theirs.
As it stands, they reduce themselves to fudging the numbers. If they weren't they would be prepared to back up their hints and statements with hard data. But they don't.
FACT: An MMO costs between $10 and $33 million to produce. This is hard data, provided by industry analysts, and is freely available in recent white-papers. A new MMO might boost that max-cost, but World of Warcraft did not exceed it.
So, who is the $33 million mark? Let's make some guesses.
DAoC?
It took Mythic 1.5 years from day-1 development to deliver a fully working MMO. And they did it with 15 developers. To that date, it was the cleanest MMO release yet (until City of Heroes, if you want to call that an MMO).
Anarchy Online?
Funcom, another rather small development team. Their implementation was not clean, though their creative ideas were awesome. Couldn't be them considering small server farms too.
It sure as hell isn't City of Heroes, another small team at Cryptic Studios.
World of Warcraft? A very large game with a lot of attention to detail, but Blizzard basically copied an already existing product into an MMO, therefore a year of artwork and creativty not required. Can't be them.
SWG?
Well, let's see. In BETA, the team was 60 developers strong, and was nearly 3 times bigger than the next team in the industry. It also took twice as long to release SWG as DAoC. SOE has the highest paid team in the industry by-far.
SWG? Could be...
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by DarktongueStill remains that Blizzard made a great game and havent advanced it much if any.SOE made a so so game and have advanced much much more than blizzard.Not to say one is better than the other but you cannot stand still in the MMO game market. Blizzard are now droppin behind and need to shift their butts.
Any facts to back your opinion? Blizzard made a game that is still far superior to SWG no matter how much half-assed work $OE has put into it.
Facts? That SOE have patched a TON more than Blizzard? o.0 Erm do you play either of these games? if so youd know what i say is true lol. Facts that people are not happy with WoW and arent as happy as non wow players think they are? Read the WoW forums. Yes they have the masses playing but they are sloooooooooooooooooooow to patch and when they do its not enough frankly.
FACT: I have a JEDI on the sunrunner server and the game now sux..... FACT: I would rather have a slow, thought out patch...than a stupid..ill concieved, knee jerk reaction patch that SOE is so great at throwing at us. FACT:I would rather play a game that is well put together, than a piece of broken crap named SWG. FACT: They have been trying to revamp the Smuggler profession for 2 years now....welll we are still waiting FACT: The SWG DEVS are tards... FACT: I just started WOW last week and find the game refreshing..even thought the genre is old... FACT: Blizzard has not put out a bad game yet FACT: SWG and SOE only put out crappy, half-completed, fully bugged games and expansions.
I could go on and on....the FACT is that comparing SWG and SOE to WOW and Blizzard is like comparing a FORD FIESTA to a BMW..... SOE is a pathetic company...they are stocked with a bucnh of lying jerk-wads.....
You only find it refreshing cause its new to you and very diffrent from SWG tho. Doesnt mean that Blizzard RUN a good MMO.They can MAKE one but not run it. Slow thought out patches are one thing but to say " we wont wait till theres lot to patch we are going to patch regular all the time etc etc" then patch every three months...is a ..lie. Much the same as most business's do these days.
Defending a company by saying they havent put out a bad game yet is nonsense and doesnt wash. Doesnt mean they can run the game well or advance it st all. Stop comparing companies.THink of original question . Blizzard dont run things well.They MAKE but not run. Hell their GMs use macros to talk to you.
SOE - Blizzard? Muhahahaha, Being an SOE designated WoW Player I can tell you this . SOE is now number 2 with a doggie scoop with a reason and if one thinks that the reason is haphazard , buggy games and expansions , great but it would take only a human can say we are sorry and at SOE no one wants to step up and assume that role for mistakes. Blizzard and other companies have realized and capitalized on these serious business flaws.
I agree in most part that SOE has indeed dropped the ball when it came to SWG, the hype that this game came out with was that it was going to be the next big MMO bombshell. Well!!, they were right in some regards, it was a bombshell, but, not as they expected. to say the least the hyped promises on the new CU was so terrible that it drove so many gamers from the game was the least of their problems, to add that they delibertly dropped petitions right after the CU implentation was a sad commentary on the fact that their Development and GM teams were so scared to face their subscriber base was the main reason for this desertion to the ROTW servers were they actually hid for weeks, even after the expansion was released. To this I add, the Dev. and GM team feel they are so absolutely supieror to other gamers that they don't even test thier own concepts, they use beta testers to do that.
I ask this to any gamer, has anyone actually seen a Dev., or GM on the Live Game Servers?, NO!!, reason is simple, they dare not face the true gamers, these devs., and GMs believe they are GODS among the mortals and if they ever stepped down from thier lofty perch, the horde on mass would clearly kill them over and over and over again for the most shoddy attempt at a game ever.
WHICH!!!, places me to add this challenge to the SOE team of Dev. and GMs to hang up thier master god characters, to actually step into the live servers as a newb player and play the game as an honest player, to get ur hands dirty, to find ur frustrations as they encounter one broken quest after another, and to adhere to thier promise to make the game as good as they can get it.
BUT!! as all gamers of SWG know, and read this posting, they will not do so, the DEv. and GM team are true cowards. They will not dare take up such a challenge and the simple reason is because they dare to treat themselves as gods, they will cheat, they will do anything to complete the task, since they really haven't played the game as a true player they aren't beholden to us to make the game better for those that pay for the privilage of playing.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is that the Great and So called Team of SOE who pretent to understand and make all this game happen are indeed the truest of cowards and liars, and indeed thieves. They make a game that has a great potential and they are more concerned about thier paychecks and thier attitude as developers at a company then actually doing thier true job, and, thats to make a great product that would bring gamers to thier door screaming for more.
To this I say shame on you. A so called Team of Developers and GMS who truly couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag even if they were at thier peek of coding brilliance.
Originally posted by Darktongue Originally posted by BelisariusDLOriginally posted by DarktongueOriginally posted by ShaydeOriginally posted by DarktongueStill remains that Blizzard made a great game and havent advanced it much if any.SOE made a so so game and have advanced much much more than blizzard.Not to say one is better than the other but you cannot stand still in the MMO game market. Blizzard are now droppin behind and need to shift their butts.Any facts to back your opinion? Blizzard made a game that is still far superior to SWG no matter how much half-assed work $OE has put into it. Facts? That SOE have patched a TON more than Blizzard? o.0 Erm do you play either of these games? if so youd know what i say is true lol. Facts that people are not happy with WoW and arent as happy as non wow players think they are? Read the WoW forums.Yes they have the masses playing but they are sloooooooooooooooooooow to patch and when they do its not enough frankly. FACT: I have a JEDI on the sunrunner server and the game now sux.....FACT: I would rather have a slow, thought out patch...than a stupid..ill concieved, knee jerk reaction patch that SOE is so great at throwing at us.FACT:I would rather play a game that is well put together, than a piece of broken crap named SWG.FACT: They have been trying to revamp the Smuggler profession for 2 years now....welll we are still waitingFACT: The SWG DEVS are tards...FACT: I just started WOW last week and find the game refreshing..even thought the genre is old...FACT: Blizzard has not put out a bad game yetFACT: SWG and SOE only put out crappy, half-completed, fully bugged games and expansions. I could go on and on....the FACT is that comparing SWG and SOE to WOW and Blizzard is like comparing a FORD FIESTA to a BMW.....SOE is a pathetic company...they are stocked with a bucnh of lying jerk-wads..... You only find it refreshing cause its new to you and very diffrent from SWG tho. Doesnt mean that Blizzard RUN a good MMO.They can MAKE one but not run it. Slow thought out patches are one thing but to say " we wont wait till theres lot to patch we are going to patch regular all the time etc etc" then patch every three months...is a ..lie. Much the same as most business's do these days. Defending a company by saying they havent put out a bad game yet is nonsense and doesnt wash. Doesnt mean they can run the game well or advance it st all. Stop comparing companies.THink of original question . Blizzard dont run things well.They MAKE but not run. Hell their GMs use macros to talk to you.
Defending a company that puts out well made game makes a hell of alot more sense than defending a company thats rushes a game still in BETA to market...and it still is in BETA.....and if you dont want to see the TRUTH as it is...well thats your problem....nothing you could say or do could change my mind on who runs a better game.....open your eyes....my GOD some people just cant face the truth. Good luck in life.
Originally posted by Baxslash I ask this to any gamer, has anyone actually seen a Dev., or GM on the Live Game Servers?, NO!!, reason is simple, they dare not face the true gamers,
Well , so far I have seen Tiggs, Goliath and Pex (him multiple times) online in game, and about 3 unnamed digiteer actors (2 X Darth Vader, 1 x Boba Fett).
Kinda shoots your theory to hell :-)
They do play .. but most dont play with marked toons that you recognize (although some do).
Ok, I admit that they occasionally do drop in, but, do they truely play, or, do they just hang around. I again repeat, they don't truely play the game, they may run around for 10-20 mins doing very little, but, again, I repeat they never actually take the time to play, if they truely went through the game, and actually ran up against thier broken quests and the unbalanced proffesions then they would honestly see the gamers point of view, but, no, they will not even take the time to do that. Because, as I said in my last posting, its easier to cheat, then to do something about it.
Originally posted by Erillion May I draw your attention to my previous post and the words "... I cannot give hard facts, ...". It may be a lie, I dont know. I only heard hints ... and say so ... But YOU are the one that says people should be more thorough readers :-) Have fun Erillion
And you ride MY butt for throwing out non-message-board sited facts and opinion.
But back to the debate...
SWG should have been the #1 all-time biggest MMORPG of the decade. It had all the critical mass of STAR WARS behind it. I know one person who HAD ME UPGRADE HIS COMPUTER so he could get in to this game. t was the FIRST Star Wars game he ever played, but he wanted to be "A person in the Star Wars Universe"
I had another friend buy the game because he heard of the concept and thought it would be great.
Both quit after two months out of frustration... and they missed the abortion that was launch.
It was freaking STAR WARS.
And you know what? That's why there's still 200k people still plaing it. It's not the "ground breaking gameplay", it is the fact that it is STAR WARS. I have a friend who would rather cut off their arm than lose their wookiee. I myself re-subscribed so I could GET MY YT-1300. Why? Because I thought the Milennium Falcon was the COOLEST ship ever created since I WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD. That's why I played for two years and gave $OE a pass on all their bugs and imbalance. I worked around them, or ignored them.
Then the CU comes out and just plain overturns the applecart. It made combat BOOOOOOOORING. It even made it ugly to watch with all the horrible icons and animations "root!". It took the game we loved and made it just plain pathetic.
We gave $OE a LOT of rope, then with the CU they went and hung us with it. After thousands protested and quit... they didn't care. They wanted to polish off the mess and try to market it to the kiddies who just got out of Episode 3.... they totally shafted all of us who dreamed of Star Wars since 1977. Who played this game religiously.. who had multiple accounts... who WERE the community.
Now that community is dead. The newbies are leaving again, and they chased off the loyal.
All over something that they WOULD have known was a bad idea, if they listened to one e-mail... or development poll (every day... "Hate the CU" was 80%).. or one ingame protest... or one snail mail... Or the angry group of players at the convention...
Yes.. they created a fun game. A little buggy, but fun.
Then they re-designed it.. VERY buggy and lame as hell.
So now we compare them to WoW? A game that has 20 TIMES the subscribers... which is much less buggy, and has plenty of happy players? Hell.. they aren't even in the same league. Even if you think that a quarter of their subscribers are blissfully happy.... it is STILL more than the subscribers of SWG and EQ2 combined.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
combat medics specials totally broken now. My jedi will love the break from pvp now.
I dont recall any patches WoW did that broke something else really bad like this. This right there should end the debate once and for all. While we debate the merits of SOE (or lack of them), they release yet ANOTHER broken patch lol.
[quote]Originally posted by admriker444 [b]this is so laughable..... [url=http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=60114] combat medics specials totally broken now. My jedi will love the break from pvp now. I dont recall any patches WoW did that broke something else really bad like this. This right there should end the debate once and for all. While we debate the merits of SOE (or lack of them), they release yet ANOTHER broken patch lol. Thank you SOE for proving me right once again.[/b][/quote]
"Working as Intended"
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Baxslash Ok, I admit that they occasionally do drop in, but, do they truely play, or, do they just hang around. I again repeat, they don't truely play the game, they may run around for 10-20 mins doing very little, but, again, I repeat they never actually take the time to play, if they truely went through the game, and actually ran up against thier broken quests and the unbalanced proffesions then they would honestly see the gamers point of view, but, no, they will not even take the time to do that. Because, as I said in my last posting, its easier to cheat, then to do something about it.
I love this arguement. Used to see players use it in EQ saying "The guides never play! They have no idea what we go through"
completely forgetting the fact that not only were the Guides REQUIRED To play by SOE and the Guide program they also couldn't even become guides unless they had reached a certain level in the game (which went up as time went by) so that they would understand the community.
Every guide that ever worked under me (I was a Sr. Guide on EQ1) had multiple level 40-50 toons (I left the program just before Kunark expansion). I myself had 1 level 50 toon and multiple level 30 toons before Kunark came out.
I suspect that the correspondents and devs are under similar requirements in SWG that they *must* play the game. I could be wrong... but I don't think SOE would change that policy.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
The answer is no because the fans would let either company walk all over them as usual and both game companies know this. Reason WoW is considered better with less bugs is their market is mostly Asia and asian fans arent blind fanbois like americans. If a game is messed up they will walk. One reason the japanese release of SWG went over so "well".
Kai
These two, at least, have been around in some form or another since release. My original Probot had that issue at times. Would stop responding and just sit there looking stupid.
Kai
Yep, and thats why its shocking to me that anyone sides with SOE. Almost all the issues I have with DE are from launch 2+ years ago. And they arent fixing things. They put out 3 so-called fixes with a publish. 2 wont actually fix the issue. One sorta does. But other additions to the publish create 5 more bugs or bring back old ones.
I suspect most that think like grapevine just dont pay attention or are too busy playing the flavor of the month professions to realize why everyone told them to pick that profession...ie it sorta works. If this werent the case, every new player to SWG would make the same mistakes we did and try squad leader out because it sounds cool (not knowing 80% of the prof is broken). Instead they get into a guild or meet someone who warns them away from the majority of those busted ones.
There's a reason why 75% of the players in game are BH / cm or Jedi and its not because they love those professions. Its because they're the ones with the least problems
Not going into all the quests that were broken before the CU, or even at BETA, since many of those have already been mentioned... About 25% of the quests pushed with RotW were broken. I have not seen ONE fix. They're sitting in my datapad, at least 5 of them. The biggest one is the freaking MINING SHIP quest which has haunted me for months. You know what? I bugged 3 of these IN BETA. MULTIPLE TIMES. They're not even addressing these except for the Mining ship, and it is STILL BROKEN IN TEST.
Not to mention the chat window bug.
The graphical lighting bug
And the transfer-faces bug
Have you SEEN how bugged this CH "fix" was?
Every bug.. every glitch.. every rubberband.. every broken quest.. every technical problem is 100% $OE's fault. You speak of some mighty QA guy at Lucasarts that is supposed to fix these things. LA only gives CONCEPTUAL direction, not coding. If the QA guy has the power to prevent bugs from being pushed live, they'd have never launched, pushed JTL, ROTW or the damned CU.
It used to be fun. It USED to be popular. It is horribly designed and run. You agree with that, and funny, that is what this very topic is about. YOU just cut them a hell of a lot more slack than I do.
That count is wrong, because they add all the station pass subscribers to all the totals of all station pass games. They added them to MxO, they added them to SWG and they added them to EQ2. It's all Enron accounting... they do it because they are a publicly traded stock.
NOW FOR THE LIES.
1. We're going to revamp the Smugglers. Waiting over two years DOES make it a lie. We're still waiting.
2. We're welcoming any input on the Combat Upgrade. - I know of at least 20 people who were banned for criticizing the CU RATIONALLY on the suckboards. I was one of them.
3. Jedi are going to be rare. You will be lucky to see one.
4. See this cool Video at Fanfest? Sorry, we're not doing that.
5. John Schmedley on the CU... "What would really help us is to give us ideas on how we can improve the new system and cool things you would like to see us do in the near term. We aren't going back to the old system, but with your help I'm confident in a few weeks you're going to feel this was the right call. Obviously you are our customers, and you pay the bills around here... we're trying to make changes that are going to make your experience better in the long run. Please bear with us while we make that effort, and give us a little time to respond and address your concerns." That's a steaming pile.
6. John Schmedley claimed at push that there was only "a few vocal" people against the CU. There was over 100 thousand signatures AFTER they took off the goofy signatures. There were e-mails, snail-mails, PROTESTS IN GAME... but there was only "a few" LIAR
Also gameplay issues they lied about...The things they were supposed to "fix"
"You can solo a Krayt"
It's MUCH easier now to do so.
"Promote grouping"
Haha.. run off the players and there's no group.
"No Uber Template"
Ask a BH/Rifle/CH or Jedi about that
"Combat more strategic"
More than one mob will kill you
"Create class interdependance"
By making Entertainers/Doctors/CH's/crafters weak and useless.
"More Star Wars feel"
Yeah, Star Wars EPISODE 3... Grievous??? WTF?? Clone Armor??? Thousands of JEDI????
So NOT ONLY did $OE not listen to ANY of our complaints or feedback, but they FAILED TO DELIVER ON WHAT THEY SAID THE CU WAS ALL ABOUT.
That, and they made all entertainers useless. NO role in the game, and weak as hell because they can't be CL80.
Sure, you're not inconvienced by this.. you no longer play. You give $OE way too much credit.
And you're still a knob if you don't realize the Alderaan comment was sarcasm.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Actually I think its because Jedi versus NonJedi is the only real GCW at the moment.
Kai
No, frankly. Claiming that 99% were bugs, is inaccurate by far. Most were "we wish" or "it would be better if". I especially liked the smuggler one, which started June 2004. You do realise that dispite the whines, they are actually in the process of implementing smuggling missions (having only recently being announced)? Although what any of that has to do with bugs, is beyond me.
One Jedi, some DE issues, one pistoller bug and a couple for CH and Commando mostly. Nothing was game breaking or even to class them "broken", especially for combat professions, which is where this converstion started.
Since Droids are being compaired to WoW's pets. How about in WoW they loose all their specials, which they have in the wild. How they can't keep up with you, even when walking. How they are such aggro magnets (poor AI) hunters are told not to use them in instances. How in PvP they are totally ignored as they poof if their owner dies. I personally had an issue with my hunter's pet, it was constantly hungry and took an insane amount of food to keep it healthy.
Look, you WoW fanboys should just go back to your own forum and sleep peacfeully knowing that WoW classes have no issues (hunter's combat deadzone, for example). Go back your balanced game, where its isn't Horde Shaman and Rogues for the win, where server stability is supreme and the devs are so perfect that they don't infect the playerbase with a game breaking plague or drown players by transport disappearing upon zoning. Where in BB someone can't be attacked (by a player) and then killed by the npc guards for defending themselves.
Why don't you read your own official forum and read about the problems there, instead of being so blinded. Quit making comments on a game you honestly have no indication of its state, which quite franking is annoying as we always get an influx of "experts" when a SWG thread becomes a sticky.
WoW is a good game, but so is SWG. WoW has issues, SWG has issues. Get over it!!
Actually I think its because Jedi versus NonJedi is the only real GCW at the moment.
Kai
Agreed, professions have nothing to do with it. Also to add, it by no means 75% Jedi/BH. You only need to stand around in a populated area to realise that.
4. Smuggler profession - how long have they openly promised a revamp for this profession ?
2 years. I know. I AM a Master Smuggler since 2003. I know EVERYTHING about this endless saga. I have done smuggling missions and have been hunted by BHs as smuggler for smuggling .... by doing player events. Not as easy as hard coded smuggler missions, but still a lot of fun. If the devs take their time revamping smuggler, use the other stuff they offer you (player event tools and perks) to do it anyway.
SOE has shown me they are run by a true corporation more interested in profits and image. They hire and use public relations officials to communicate with the players. Every statement they release can mean different things to many people (classic pr in action). This in turn starts arguments between players about what tiggs actually meant on pearl drops (one side says they're coming back, other says gone for good). These arguments are good for SOE as they deflect attention from them.
I concur. Capitalism in action. Smokescreening in action.
Blizzard on the other hand has always made a great game. Its quite obvious over there that they make a great game first and worry about marketing and public relations later.
Here is where you err. Blizzard = Vivendi. Vivendi = all about the bottom line = as good or bad as Sony.
Have fun
Erillion
Ok everyone is going to go back and forth on why their game is better over this game blah blah blah. Who cares because at the end of the day it is the $$$ that comes into a company that states if its a success or not. When the share holders of a company see the revenue coming in and looking at the competition is doing they are the ones who decide if a game is a success NOT YOU. If a game is not making any money no fanboi anywhere with any witty come back can save it. Fact is both are still around so both must be making a profit. But looking from just a business view and that is what it comes down to "business" these companies don't make these games for you to have fun. They make them to make money, if it didn't make money you wouldn't be playing them. On that note lets look at the numbers and draw who has the better game. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Blizzards - World of Warcraft - Over 4,000,000+ Customers
SOE - Star Wars Galaxies - A little over 250,000 Customers
Now Galaxies is not the only game out there by SOE so let's look at SOE complete player base.
SOE - EQ1 - 450,000 players
SWG 250,000+ players
EQ2 275,000+ players
Planetside - 55,000 players
Matrix - ??? Don't have these numbers
Everquest Online - 45,000 players
Ok if I missed any I appologize... comparing each company with a more accurate picture.
Now its hard to perfect number for SOE due to the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />All Access Pass but for arguments sake I will treat each number as a different person.
SOE player base - 1,075,000 - Does not include Matrix population
Blizzard player base - 4,000,000+
When I look at these numbers just from an economical perspective and I was invested in one of these companies I would say Blizzard is the clear winner here. Also before anyone says yeah well WoW is new well so is EQ2 and they peaked at around 325,000 players and Everquest 1 peaked a little over 500,000. Blizzard is clearly the winner when it comes to having a successful game. Fact is their one game smashed all of SOEs attempts combined.
Final Blizzard Wins and SOE will continue to do business because they are still not a failure, just not anywhere close to what Blizzard can do.
Well someone will come here in a few and tell you its because WoW comes from a game and SWG comes from a movie. But in fact you showed that several of the items listed came from SOE games and did poorly.
The truth, most dont want to face, is Blizzard was smart. They went after that asian market with a relatively (I hate WoW and know its bugged but nothing as bad as SOE games) stable product. See Asians love their MMOs. They are downright fanatical about them. More so then we ever could be. And a MMO that is messed up and costs? Well they just wont have anything to do with it. Which is why you hear very little about the SWG release in Japan now. Why? The asians laughed it out of play.
They even have shows here dedicated to MMOs and they insult SWG on a regular basis as being the most UnStar Wars game ever even compared to games that definately arent Star Wars. I heard one host of a MMO show talking about the Mourning fiasco a few months back. He actually said too bad it wasnt SWG.
Kai
I concur with your calculations in many points. However, some things you need to take into account too :
a) Time. 7 years SOE to 1.5 years Blizzard in the MMORPG business. If you think about that, SOE is still slightly ahead in pure total profit (especially when you take the profits from reinvesting the earlier profits into account). However, Blizzard will top that in 2006 at the current pace.
b) Development cost .. I cannot give hard facts, but SWG devs have hinted at industry sources claiming WoW to have cost twice as much as SWG in development. On the other hand, adding up development cost for the other SOE games may see SOE losing here.
c) Customer Retention .... SOE has a more stable customer base in total numbers .. much less than Blizzard, but more stable. Blizzard is still peaking and the nature of WoW makes it a bad long-duration game, so they have a high customer turnaround (at the moment compensated by new players, but that wont last forever). And they will lose a lot of people. In fact I know they do because EVE (and of course SWG too) is overrun by ex-WoW players. In EVE you "feel" this more than in SWG because there is only one shard and the chat channels are shard-wide ... so seeing dozens of new names in your avarage chat cannel (DAILY) - many still using the WoW lingo - means that the Blizzard players are spreading out over all the other MMORPGs at the moment. With or without leaving WoW. So ... Blizzard has to prove over the years that they can KEEP customers. SOE has already done so.
Time will tell.
Competition is good for the genre !
Have fun
Erillion
SWG devs can hint all they like, but told us in beta whenit was at the 20 million mark, and the networking team and server farms were not yet in place. SWG took nearly $30 million to develop. WoW took about the same amount. The difference is WoW works, and is a game. Oh does it have bugs? So what? It still works for the most part, you aren't facing constant game-breaking issues like here and 5-day server rollbacks.
WoWs problems exist almost entirely in their refusal to get their networking straight, and do everything possible to eliminate the game-breaking lag. Aside from that...the game itself is superior to any others previous, and even though it is essentially still a 1st generation copy, it is the perfection of that old-school game play.
SWG devs can say what they want. The truth is, it took their largest development team in the industry BY FAR 3 years to release a totally broken product, and it's still not fixed after 5.
Oh that's not true at all. The majority of the 4 million customer base of World of Warcraft came from their existing fans. The truth is, World of Warcraft has more customers in one product than SOE ever had in all theirs combined. Sure they have the largest turn-around. But what is it...percentage wise?
I think SOE has more turn-around than any other serious company in this respect.
Lying about your competition is not.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I don't ever recall anyone lying about the competition. WoW is a good game for those new to the genre. For vets it's a snooze fest once you reach 60. Every WoW player I know has stated that they'll probably play something else "soon" that WoW is only fun till you hit 60, etc. I played in Beta so I know this was at least true then and I have no reason to doubt what my co-workers and friends tell me.
Bottom line:
WoW is GREAT for the industry. It opened the eyes of millions of new MMORPG players to the genre and many will move on to other established games. Giving some much needed boosts in subscribers and others just topping them off.
By the way, your numbers for EQ2 are off. Per a New York Times news article EQ2 is over 500,000 subscribers worldwide now and WoW is over 4.5 million.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Oh, I think this is a lie of tremendous magnitiude.
Either the devs are lying, or Erillion is...
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
May I draw your attention to my previous post and the words "... I cannot give hard facts, ...". It may be a lie, I dont know. I only heard hints ... and say so ...
But YOU are the one that says people should be more thorough readers :-)
Have fun
Erillion
That's right they should be. And they should also learn to read between the lines when SOE says anything.
If they had something good to report, you can bet your spinal column they would market it worldwide as some great victory of theirs.
As it stands, they reduce themselves to fudging the numbers. If they weren't they would be prepared to back up their hints and statements with hard data. But they don't.
FACT: An MMO costs between $10 and $33 million to produce. This is hard data, provided by industry analysts, and is freely available in recent white-papers. A new MMO might boost that max-cost, but World of Warcraft did not exceed it.
So, who is the $33 million mark? Let's make some guesses.
DAoC?
It took Mythic 1.5 years from day-1 development to deliver a fully working MMO. And they did it with 15 developers. To that date, it was the cleanest MMO release yet (until City of Heroes, if you want to call that an MMO).
Anarchy Online?
Funcom, another rather small development team. Their implementation was not clean, though their creative ideas were awesome. Couldn't be them considering small server farms too.
It sure as hell isn't City of Heroes, another small team at Cryptic Studios.
World of Warcraft? A very large game with a lot of attention to detail, but Blizzard basically copied an already existing product into an MMO, therefore a year of artwork and creativty not required. Can't be them.
SWG?
Well, let's see. In BETA, the team was 60 developers strong, and was nearly 3 times bigger than the next team in the industry. It also took twice as long to release SWG as DAoC. SOE has the highest paid team in the industry by-far.
SWG? Could be...
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
FACT: I have a JEDI on the sunrunner server and the game now sux.....
FACT: I would rather have a slow, thought out patch...than a stupid..ill concieved, knee jerk reaction patch that SOE is so great at throwing at us.
FACT:I would rather play a game that is well put together, than a piece of broken crap named SWG.
FACT: They have been trying to revamp the Smuggler profession for 2 years now....welll we are still waiting
FACT: The SWG DEVS are tards...
FACT: I just started WOW last week and find the game refreshing..even thought the genre is old...
FACT: Blizzard has not put out a bad game yet
FACT: SWG and SOE only put out crappy, half-completed, fully bugged games and expansions.
I could go on and on....the FACT is that comparing SWG and SOE to WOW and Blizzard is like comparing a FORD FIESTA to a BMW.....
SOE is a pathetic company...they are stocked with a bucnh of lying jerk-wads.....
You only find it refreshing cause its new to you and very diffrent from SWG tho. Doesnt mean that Blizzard RUN a good MMO.They can MAKE one but not run it. Slow thought out patches are one thing but to say " we wont wait till theres lot to patch we are going to patch regular all the time etc etc" then patch every three months...is a ..lie. Much the same as most business's do these days.
Defending a company by saying they havent put out a bad game yet is nonsense and doesnt wash. Doesnt mean they can run the game well or advance it st all. Stop comparing companies.THink of original question . Blizzard dont run things well.They MAKE but not run. Hell their GMs use macros to talk to you.
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I agree in most part that SOE has indeed dropped the ball when it came to SWG, the hype that this game came out with was that it was going to be the next big MMO bombshell. Well!!, they were right in some regards, it was a bombshell, but, not as they expected. to say the least the hyped promises on the new CU was so terrible that it drove so many gamers from the game was the least of their problems, to add that they delibertly dropped petitions right after the CU implentation was a sad commentary on the fact that their Development and GM teams were so scared to face their subscriber base was the main reason for this desertion to the ROTW servers were they actually hid for weeks, even after the expansion was released. To this I add, the Dev. and GM team feel they are so absolutely supieror to other gamers that they don't even test thier own concepts, they use beta testers to do that.
I ask this to any gamer, has anyone actually seen a Dev., or GM on the Live Game Servers?, NO!!, reason is simple, they dare not face the true gamers, these devs., and GMs believe they are GODS among the mortals and if they ever stepped down from thier lofty perch, the horde on mass would clearly kill them over and over and over again for the most shoddy attempt at a game ever.
WHICH!!!, places me to add this challenge to the SOE team of Dev. and GMs to hang up thier master god characters, to actually step into the live servers as a newb player and play the game as an honest player, to get ur hands dirty, to find ur frustrations as they encounter one broken quest after another, and to adhere to thier promise to make the game as good as they can get it.
BUT!! as all gamers of SWG know, and read this posting, they will not do so, the DEv. and GM team are true cowards. They will not dare take up such a challenge and the simple reason is because they dare to treat themselves as gods, they will cheat, they will do anything to complete the task, since they really haven't played the game as a true player they aren't beholden to us to make the game better for those that pay for the privilage of playing.
In other words, what I'm trying to say is that the Great and So called Team of SOE who pretent to understand and make all this game happen are indeed the truest of cowards and liars, and indeed thieves. They make a game that has a great potential and they are more concerned about thier paychecks and thier attitude as developers at a company then actually doing thier true job, and, thats to make a great product that would bring gamers to thier door screaming for more.
To this I say shame on you. A so called Team of Developers and GMS who truly couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag even if they were at thier peek of coding brilliance.
Defending a company that puts out well made game makes a hell of alot more sense than defending a company thats rushes a game still in BETA to market...and it still is in BETA.....and if you dont want to see the TRUTH as it is...well thats your problem....nothing you could say or do could change my mind on who runs a better game.....open your eyes....my GOD some people just cant face the truth. Good luck in life.
Well , so far I have seen Tiggs, Goliath and Pex (him multiple times) online in game, and about 3 unnamed digiteer actors (2 X Darth Vader, 1 x Boba Fett).
Kinda shoots your theory to hell :-)
They do play .. but most dont play with marked toons that you recognize (although some do).
Have fun
Erillion
Ok, I admit that they occasionally do drop in, but, do they truely play, or, do they just hang around. I again repeat, they don't truely play the game, they may run around for 10-20 mins doing very little, but, again, I repeat they never actually take the time to play, if they truely went through the game, and actually ran up against thier broken quests and the unbalanced proffesions then they would honestly see the gamers point of view, but, no, they will not even take the time to do that. Because, as I said in my last posting, its easier to cheat, then to do something about it.
And you ride MY butt for throwing out non-message-board sited facts and opinion.
But back to the debate...
SWG should have been the #1 all-time biggest MMORPG of the decade. It had all the critical mass of STAR WARS behind it. I know one person who HAD ME UPGRADE HIS COMPUTER so he could get in to this game. t was the FIRST Star Wars game he ever played, but he wanted to be "A person in the Star Wars Universe"
I had another friend buy the game because he heard of the concept and thought it would be great.
Both quit after two months out of frustration... and they missed the abortion that was launch.
It was freaking STAR WARS.
And you know what? That's why there's still 200k people still plaing it. It's not the "ground breaking gameplay", it is the fact that it is STAR WARS. I have a friend who would rather cut off their arm than lose their wookiee. I myself re-subscribed so I could GET MY YT-1300. Why? Because I thought the Milennium Falcon was the COOLEST ship ever created since I WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD. That's why I played for two years and gave $OE a pass on all their bugs and imbalance. I worked around them, or ignored them.
Then the CU comes out and just plain overturns the applecart. It made combat BOOOOOOOORING. It even made it ugly to watch with all the horrible icons and animations "root!". It took the game we loved and made it just plain pathetic.
We gave $OE a LOT of rope, then with the CU they went and hung us with it. After thousands protested and quit... they didn't care. They wanted to polish off the mess and try to market it to the kiddies who just got out of Episode 3.... they totally shafted all of us who dreamed of Star Wars since 1977. Who played this game religiously.. who had multiple accounts... who WERE the community.
Now that community is dead. The newbies are leaving again, and they chased off the loyal.
All over something that they WOULD have known was a bad idea, if they listened to one e-mail... or development poll (every day... "Hate the CU" was 80%).. or one ingame protest... or one snail mail... Or the angry group of players at the convention...
Yes.. they created a fun game. A little buggy, but fun.
Then they re-designed it.. VERY buggy and lame as hell.
So now we compare them to WoW? A game that has 20 TIMES the subscribers... which is much less buggy, and has plenty of happy players? Hell.. they aren't even in the same league. Even if you think that a quarter of their subscribers are blissfully happy.... it is STILL more than the subscribers of SWG and EQ2 combined.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
this is so laughable.....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=60114
combat medics specials totally broken now. My jedi will love the break from pvp now.
I dont recall any patches WoW did that broke something else really bad like this. This right there should end the debate once and for all. While we debate the merits of SOE (or lack of them), they release yet ANOTHER broken patch lol.
Thank you SOE for proving me right once again.
[quote]Originally posted by admriker444
[b]this is so laughable.....
[url=http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=60114]
combat medics specials totally broken now. My jedi will love the break from pvp now.
I dont recall any patches WoW did that broke something else really bad like this. This right there should end the debate once and for all. While we debate the merits of SOE (or lack of them), they release yet ANOTHER broken patch lol.
Thank you SOE for proving me right once again.[/b][/quote]
"Working as Intended"
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I love this arguement. Used to see players use it in EQ saying "The guides never play! They have no idea what we go through"
completely forgetting the fact that not only were the Guides REQUIRED To play by SOE and the Guide program they also couldn't even become guides unless they had reached a certain level in the game (which went up as time went by) so that they would understand the community.
Every guide that ever worked under me (I was a Sr. Guide on EQ1) had multiple level 40-50 toons (I left the program just before Kunark expansion). I myself had 1 level 50 toon and multiple level 30 toons before Kunark came out.
I suspect that the correspondents and devs are under similar requirements in SWG that they *must* play the game. I could be wrong... but I don't think SOE would change that policy.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas