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no xp for mobs ,,,,,,, that sounds cool or even like a blessing
Berndr
Member Posts: 185
ok lets get this strait ....i keep reading about peeps complaining and whining for not getting exp for monster kill ,,, yes i though that was strange ,,,
BUT
if you play EverQuest where almost every single quest is kill 10 snakes, kill 10 rats , kill 12 wolfs, kill 15 whatever,,,,,,,, you get bored bored bored bored to hell.. i was thinking whether 1o year old was writing those quests ,because keep coming across Npc with such stupid and boring excuses in order to get you to kill another number of monsters, that at the end you end up not even reading it , but just skipping to the part where you are told , what to kill and how many.
So no exp for killing monster , you might think of this as a blessing
Cant wait to see a game with quests that has got a great story line where i am actually expected to do something (which is not killing a certain number of monsters) get trough dangerous dungeon where creatures are only the obstacles trying to stop me in finishing my mission .
In real life ,,,if you get an award in the army i am sure you get it for your achieved mission, not for the number of people you killed on your way .
ps. i used eq2 as an bad quest example but wow and other games are not much better
Comments
I like the sound of this too.
In City of Heroes, damage is king. Most missions involve defeating every mob in the instance, and many others are simply "go out and defeat X number of a given villain faction". If you're a support class who doesn't deal heavy damage, you're at a significant disadvantage. There's also only one way to succeed: kill everything you see. One of the ways the devs have tried to fix this is by finding ways to increase the damage potential of support classes, which seems to be tackling the problem from the wrong end.
By awarding XP for completing quests instead of defeating mobs, it promotes more variety in gameplay while also allowing each character to be played to its strengths. Rogues can sneak through while warriors can fight their way to their goals. Maybe magic users can contain mobs long enough to move past. It should make playing each class a unique and rewarding experience.
You want to know one reason exp is quest only??
To stop people from leaving in the middle of a instance. It strongly encourages people to go from begining to end. Same reason mobs don't really drop loot. So you won't have to worry about bob getting a level and leaving, or getting the drop he wanted and leaving as much. Though if multiple quests take place in the same instance at the same time you could still get a bit of that.
I'm sure some quest will still be kill 10 of x, y, and b though. You just won't get any exp till the very end.
I don't see any real problem with such a system... other then the fact that people will learn which quest give the best rewards and favor them... so other quest could become less popular, and harder to find a group for. But that happens with any game.
I agree with this completely. But more specifically, I think quests will (or should) take into account your class. You wouldn't want to give a thief a 'kill 10 hill giants' quest. In the same token you wouldn't want to give a fighter a 'heal the villagers' quest, unless he specializes in the healing skill or something.
Specifically, quests should be specifically tailored to the charachter, or charachters involved. Sure, they could have the same quests for anyone to do, But don't give out standard quests to every player. Someone mentioned City of Heroes, while I love that game, they very much do give out the same missions to every charachter, reguardless of your archtype. I think they could do better.
Reality Ruins my best plans.
Yes, I agree too!
Next to that it prevents "farming" too much. You may be able to do a whole dungeon all by yourself, but since everyone gets the same (individual) xp and loot anyway, it's not reason to do it alone (except for the challenge).
This encourages people to play not only "the best solo farmer" class but the class that you might like the most instead.
I think it's a good idea!!
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
I'm all for it.
I hope it removes the other infuriating thing about MMORPG's.
In some games, you speak to an NPC and he tells you to go kill 10 of something.
You do it and plod slowly back to the NPC and he tells you to go and get an item from the place you just killed 10 mobs.
You go get the item, killing all the respawns on the way and return to the NPC.
He tells you that you have to go and kill some more of the the mobs you just killed to get a drop.
ARRRGGH!
You go insane and lop off the NPC's head with your axe, parading around the village with it on a pole as a sign to any other NPC's that &$%£ you about.
I laughed whe I read your point about killing people in real life- it's so true...
It seems to me from reading this thread and others like it, that the right kind of people are getting excited about this game for all the right reasons and the complainers are punks that don't have the attention spans to play true RPGs anyhow...So as far as I tell the community seems to be growing with the right kind of people in it.
All I worry about now is-how true to D&D will this game be; will it encorporate enough of the rules to make it "feel" like D&D, and will people get "into" role-playing. I'm starting to get excited about this one, and I certainly see a lot of room for continued growth in the franchise I see that is about to emerge.
Worst idea ever.
The guy who got this idea deserve to be fired and shown for public disgrace with the word: LAME on his t-shirt! (I exagerate)
If I have merely an hour to play, I won't even start to think to maybe play D&D, since I can't save in the middle of the instance and finish later....and building a group is going to take some times as well!
In the Monster Manual, there is a XP rating, a challenge rating that transfer into XP in every setting.
And I see the worst players been happy. I love grouping and I always finish my missions with a few keys exceptions, but seeing peoples happy at that enforced grouping + quest is a sorry sight. If someone is lame, he doesn't deserve a system that enforce grouping.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I love the idea, because that idea in combination with the instancing and the fact that you dont easily regain health back makes this game really interesting. This game isnt about clearing the dungeon for exp and your leet shit, with health regen which makes you feel invincible anyway, its about you actually having to make decisions to attack a foe, and to create a real strategy to make sure that you dont take too much damage.
In other MMOs, when you enter a dungeon, its just assumed that youre gonna clear it, sure it takes an extra 10-15 minutes to kill everyone, but you can get good xp and gear out of it, plus if you take too much damage you can just wait for your health to regen and your mana to come back, theres no real reason to be afraid of any monster in the dungeon.
It seems like in DDO, there actually is a reason to fear the monsters in the dungeons, and that your experience is a bit more unique, because its instanced, so your experience is seperate, and personalized to your experience, and you have to make interesing tactical decisions. "should I attack these monsters and lose the health and mana it will take to kill them, or can we find a way to bypass them and keep our health, maybe we can flank them and find a way to kill them that way?" Because youre a lot more vulnerable and because there isnt a reward for killing random people, you are free to only kill what you need to kill, which is more like real life, and it makes you feel more human, more vulnerable, which will make your victory that much better when you complete the quest.
I also like the idea. I love playing scouts or rogues or similiar classes, where you don't just go in and slash and hack your way to the solution of a quest. When a friend of mine (a paladine) and I do the same quests in EQ2 on our own, she will always end up with more xps, because she relies on her char's strenght, and just kills everything in sight, whereas I have to try to doge the mobs, wait patiently untill some leave to take out the rest etc. We both finish the quest, we both get get a couple of xps extra, but she will have advanced her xp-bar about 3x more than I did, just because our style of playing is different. Perhapst the method DDO is planning to employ will even thing out a bit.
This post is the reason I'm starting to like the sound of this system: People like this might not be playing. I don't see any reason the system helps worse players. If anything, it's more of a chalenge. You can't just sit there killing mob after mob for experience, occasionally dying, reviving and continuing. You actually have to get through something to gain that experience.
Hopefully this game will be more realistic, especially on RP servers. I'm looking forward to it. (Even if it's no Dragon Empires. *glances at codemasters*)
Originally posted by woody000
Originally posted by Anofalye
Worst idea ever. The guy who got this idea deserve to be fired and shown for public disgrace with the word: LAME on his t-shirt! (I exagerate)
If I have merely an hour to play, I won't even start to think to maybe play D&D, since I can't save in the middle of the instance and finish later....and building a group is going to take some times as well!
This post is the reason I'm starting to like the sound of this system: People like this might not be playing. I don't see any reason the system helps worse players. If anything, it's more of a chalenge. You can't just sit there killing mob after mob for experience, occasionally dying, reviving and continuing. You actually have to get through something to gain that experience.
Hopefully this game will be more realistic, especially on RP servers. I'm looking forward to it. (Even if it's no Dragon Empires. *glances at codemasters*)
YAY!
I can't agree more. I don't really mind NOT having people who demand to have saving points and rewards if they want to play for 30 minutes. Playing PnP D&D requires a lot more than half an hour, so it's only reasonable to have to take some time for it. What's the immersion of 30 minutes playing on your own to "quickly grab some xp"?
It should be the gameplay and social interaction that counts, not getting xp whenever you can. I really hope that the game won't attract too much "power level über 1337 WTFSTFU n00b I finished tha game in 1.5 minutes" players and a lot of previous PnP D&D role players!!
So to Anofalye: yes, I agree, so please stay out!
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
yeah, this doesnt seem like a game where you play for 30 minutes to grab some exp then log. This is a game where if youre gonna play, you make a commitment to play for at least an hour at a time, which i think is fine, personally if i play an RPG I dont stop until I've beaten whatever quest I'm on anyway, so it wont change my play style. If I only have 30 minutes to play, I dont play MMO's anyway, ill probably hop on for a couple of rounds of CS or FEAR, if I have more time, ill do some quests. In this way DDO cant be better than most mainstream MMOs, because its probably going to be impossible to play if you have less than an hour to play, and cant pick up quick exp, which will probably alienate really casual players.
Again, this game really isnt like most MMOs because it doesnt seem like its about exp or loot anyway. Theres a lvl cap at lvl 10 at the moment, so it seems like grabbing exp and powerleveling isnt going to be all that cool, and theres no PvP, so who cares if youre lvl 10 or not? You cant do anything about it execpt complain that theres no more endgame content because you blew through it so fast. This game is about, at its core, having awesome adventures and fun combat to accomplish goals to advance some sort of a plot. Although im not personally really into RPing ( at least not in fantasy games, old english isnt my thing) this will probably be a great game for that as well.
The only thing I hope they dont do is create massively long dungeons that take like 8 consecutive hours to finish, because thats really not fun to me, if they do I hope they make them optional or something.
Every other D&D product allow you to play 30 minutes. PnP and every computer game have a SAVE not at presponderous points, but whenever you want.
And you should be very afraid, because I play for 12 hours in a row myself and I simply pinpoint major flaws of design. And for peoples saying openly I am a "worse player", LOL. Are you even a fan of D&D? Can you even name a mere 20 titles of D&D product without taking a second breath? Have you ever seen the red box? The first drawing about immortality in D&D? Or the most recent city called Sigil? You even know what the Blood Wars is?
Real time and challenge? That is simply the worst argument I ever heard about D&D! Challenge in D&D come from thinking and strategies, not from fast paced tactical decision. Anyone arguing that is not a D&D fan.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by lazerbeard
well personally, Im exited about this title because of the gameplay mechanic, nothing more. They probably should have picked a different game to go along with this title, because it really seems like the D&D licence doesnt quite suit it. Oh well, this seems to be very different than the PnP game, just using the basic rules and world, kind of like how the Warhammer 40k RTS used the rules and the licence, but itself wasnt like the tabletop game.
I kind of agree with you. The origin of the game is something that I like a lot, but I guess we'll have to wait how it end up in the game. It's like the LOtR movies, you didn't know how it was going to be (although it worked out pretty good imho).
Mosty - if not all - that is posted is just speculation. Perhaps instancing will be a bliss. Perhaps Eberron turns out a terrible setting. No doubt there will be room for improvement after the initial release.
But I'm pretty sure the xp and quest rewards is a good step. No soloing builds, no advantage for classes because you get the same reward anyhow. And in mmorpgs, I always asked myself how monsters like wolves or rats can drop weapons and armours anyway
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
This is a GODSEND!! i hate grinding and killing 10 of this and 15 of that. This has the potential to really pull you into the game, and not just mindlessly kill mob after mob ect..
All seems ice cream and lolipops until you ujnderstand the impact on game design and character progression.
Decreasing the value of killing mobs and putting more stress on completing quests? Good for many of the reasons stated in this thread.
Eliminating any value for killing mobs and replacing it completely with objective related XP rewards? Very, very bad.
Any MMO needs to find a way to extend play time required to reach max level, with out making the game too much of a grind where things just are not at all fun. The primary goal is to do this as much as possible with fun content. However, well designed fun content takes a lot of man hours and the limitations of technology also put a cap to some degree on how much real content there can be in an MMO world. Combat is a way to extend content. A good MMO tries to design combat to be as much of a time sink as possible, while still being fun and exciting. When content and combat run out, other time sinks are added into a game; travel time, non-questing content, crafting, participation in the in game economy, roleplaying etc... Once this is all in place, the developers want to make sure that content is adjusted as best as possible to find the right balance between time sink and fun. A big problem when trying to make real content as efficient as possible in consuming time while being fun is to make sure that most content in a quest/dungeon/instance can not just be bypassed. To accomplish this, exploits are eliminated and players are given incentives to engage as much of the content as possible because of the rewards for doing so.
Once all of that is rolled into one big package, the rate at which XP is earned and the amount of XP required to level can be adjusted, in order to balance out the leveling curve so that the content and time sinks provided will keep the player base occupied for a reasonable amount of time before the "end game" is reached.
The more fun content a game has, the less XP rates need to be tweaked to slow down progression. The better the devs have been at providing fun, time consuming content sufficient to keep players busy, the less the game will feel like a grind. When a game is lacking in content, the XP rates need to be decreased and the XP required to level increased. Whether the grind is killing monsters or doing quests, it's still a grind.
The problem here is that by removing XP and loot drops from monsters, players are encouraged to bypass as much of that content as possible. With the Quest and objective XP system, players can also learn or eventually read obout online the most efficient ways to complete each quest, earning full XP, and which quests are the most XP efficient, while bypassing most of the content. The more content players can bypass on the most efficient leveling path, the more the devs need to decrease XP rewards and increase XP/level requirements. This leads to more grind, espescially for those who don't know or don't want to follow the most effiecient path!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
The problem I see is this...
The easier it is to get to the top level in the game the worse it gets for us low level people that love the content. Why? Because once you start getting more and more high level characters in game, the more the Devs have to focus on high level content. And the more time they focus on high level content, the less time they have to focus on our content. And this is not just Turbine... All of them do it. They have to prioritze their limited resources. So do they develope high end content to keep those players happy and playing teh game? Or do they develope content for the whole community? The more top heavy you get, the more time you spend making them happy.
I know this is kind of a lof of rambling, but I hope you get my point.
The problem is that the powergamers who run the most efficient parties and follow the most efficient paths can earn the same amount of XP in ten minutes you might earn in an hour. When calculated over a full week, with them also focusing on the most efficient quests, while you and your friends try to enjoy and experience a wide variety of content, they may gain ten or twenty times as much XP for the same time commitment.
Since the advancement rate needs to be adjusted for powergamers and the average advancement rate (including the impact the powergamers have on the average), the XP system becomes one where the players who try to enjoy the content like you find the rate of progress to be a complete crawl.
Whether or not you powergame, powergamers are not ignored by devs in balancing advancement rates. The larger the difference between power gamer XP/hour rates and casual gamer xp/hour rates, the larger the negative impact on the more casual gamers as the devs seek to balance the game.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Only if soloing means faster advancement than grouping!
It all depends on how much a game requires grouping or rewards it. Look at WoW as an example. The powergamers are usually also the people who participate in power raid/PvP guilds. Their first goal is usually to get members to level 60 asap. On a new server, that probably means solo or duos. Espescially post level 20, Duos are probably the most efficient leveling machines. Once the vanguard get's to 60, they will help others near 60 power level as much as possible. Once they can field enough level 60s for 5 man instances, they will split time there and powerleveling others, until they have enough to field 15 man raids, at which point they will focus on that content.
They solo if that's the quickest route. Here, grouping is mandatory, most efficient and has no XP penalties. Smaller groups are better for powergamers as they ramp up the levels, only because there are fewer people to get in sync, thus less downtime. If two people are as efficient as three, we will see duos, but powergamers are not concerned as much about solo vs. parties, only what is the optimum configuration.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Edit: Duplicate Post.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
