Immersed in the world, or the game?

ImagiWorld

I was rereading an interview and came across the following blurb that seems to be at odds with a later statement in the interview:

"Jonric: Are there other core features and elements that will help set the game apart in our readers' minds?

David Whatley: One mind blowingly cool aspect of Hero's Journey is that quest encounters are scaled to match the party on the adventure. Think about it this way; when you play a typical MMORPG - or most any RPG - where you physically take your character in the game is based on its level. Too low means no experience or good loot... too high, you get slaughtered. But this makes it hard for you to adventure with your friends who may have started at different times than you, or just play more or less than you.

In Hero's Journey, our design causes quest groups to be playable even with great disparity between levels. This means you and your friends can play even if your characters are quite different in ability. No longer will you have to start over when your friends finally get wise and make the hump to Hero's Journey. Sweet, huh?

What I don't understand is how this is supposed to work, and how it is supposed to co-exist with an immersive world environment. I'll tackle the first issue first.

Assuming that there is a great power disparity between members of a group, how can that be reconciled in a manner that all members of the party enjoy the encounters and find them both challenging and rewarding. I understand that the weaker characters could come up with more ingenious ways to either avoid or overcome the encounter, but assuming that the power disparity is reflected not only in the breadth of skills but also such core attributes such as Maximum HP's, how could someone who is 1/5th the level of his teammates, and consequentially has 1/5th the HP's, survive a blow that was intended for someone with 5x his HP's. Is it like a modifie version of Mario Kart 64 or any other number of other games that "give an edge to the underdog" and allow them to catch up by temporarily boosting their stats? I really hope such a system does not exist because I can't imagine suspending any disbelief when a level 5 character is suddenly doing damage at a level 40 rate simply because his teammates are level 50 or so. I'm hoping that my inklings are wrong and that the power spread will mostly entail the amount of skills and abilities available to a character and not their core HP's or MP's.

Now to address the second issue. In this interview and many others you guys have mentioned entering an immersive world, a world where through the Journey System the players will really feel a part of it, but this choice of tailoring encounters to the abilities of the "encountees" really seems to break that immersion. Actually, it shifts the focus of the immersion from interacting with a real and dynamic world, to interacting with a streamlined *game*. I don't think I'm alone when I say that the difficulty level of certain areas in a game add depth to the world and really help flesh out and add dimension to what would otherwise be a constant barrage of "semi-challenging" encounters. I can recall all the way back to FF1 or the original Dragon Warrior, where venturing too far from Tantagel castle was a dangerous and frightening affair for the newborn hero. Making it to a city that is surrounded by monsters that you have no business being up against was truly rewarding. Besides simply being rewarding, it lent a culture or feeling to that town, that area of the overworld.

I understand the game oriented reasons for tailoring encounters to the players strengths. Like I said, that approach offers a very streamlined experience, and allows characters to immerse themselves in the aspects of the game that are, well, game oriented. I don't think it offers a cohesive cognitive map though, especially for players who have more than one character. Imagine a player with one character who ventures to Town X when he is level 50...and the encounters and such are also around a similar level. If he stays and hunts and adventures in that area for a while, he's going to associate that area with those types of encounters. Now he starts a new character of a different race who starts much closer to Town X. At level 3 he makes the trek to Town X, and now the area that he previously had associated with difficult monsters is filled with rats, slimes, etc (insert whatever low level creatures are actually present in the game).

I guess my question is, what are you guys really aiming for. An "immersive world" , or an "immersive game experience"?

~ImagiWorld

Dnightz

make sure and get your friends a' humpin over to HJ fast then i guess.

Agent_X7

Did you read what you wrote? "I can't imagine suspending any disbelief when a level 5 character is suddenly doing damage at a level 40 rate simply because his teammates are level 50 or so." If you are thinking in terms of levels like that, you never suspended your disbelief to begin with. Read some fantasy novels, sometimes the hero is a kid who is just naturally good with a sword and can compete with people who have years of experience. Ever read the Dragonlance novels? Tika is a freakin' barmaid, but she holds her own when fighting alongside a band of friends who have been adventuring for years.

Personally I think they are on the right track. It's pretty stupid to stop people from grouping because of a level disparity.

kuronekoyama

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Originally posted by ImagiWorld
Imagine a player with one character who ventures to Town X when he is level 50...and the encounters and such are also around a similar level. If he stays and hunts and adventures in that area for a while, he's going to associate that area with those types of encounters. Now he starts a new character of a different race who starts much closer to Town X. At level 3 he makes the trek to Town X, and now the area that he previously had associated with difficult monsters is filled with rats, slimes, etc (insert whatever low level creatures are actually present in the game).

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For one thing, this isn't going to apply to someone making a solo trek to the shared hunting areas... This is going to apply to someone who is grouping and going through an instanced mission. At least, as I understand it.

One easy way to take care of this is to make sure that somebody at level 50 doesn't have five times as much HP as somebody at level 10. Make it so that, let's say... A level 20 encounter would be "very difficult but surmountable" for a level 10 character, and "pretty darn easy" for a level 50 character--but not 100% impossible for the level 10, and not over with a single thought for the level 50.

It's really too late now, but gosh do I wish we'd just get rid of levels entirely...

Renian

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For one thing, this isn't going to apply to someone making a solo trek to the shared hunting areas... This is going to apply to someone who is grouping and going through an instanced mission. At least, as I understand it.

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Right.

simoom22

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I'm hoping that my inklings are wrong and that the power spread will mostly entail the amount of skills and abilities available to a character and not their core HP's or MP's.

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Agree.