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Hating the idea of losing experience when you die
Jd1680a
Member Posts: 398
I played FFXI for about two days before I ended up hating it. The one reason I left was due because of losing experience if you die. Didnt really like the idea of losing experience especially when it causes me to delevel. Felt like the game was bashing me over the head because I made a mistake. I prefer the nice death penalty over losing experience any time.
I know other games have the same thing. Like Everquest, DAoC and Lineage 2 are the games I know of also make you lose experience if you die. Even worse when some games make you lose an item that you spent hours, probably days on getting.
Im wondering if this feature in games is quickly being phased out by giving death penalties by newer games that are coming out? Do alot of developers are understanding the need not to bash players for dying? Instead do these developers understand the need to continue having the game fun enough if you die?
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Comments
actually it seems games are splitting... your penalty is either getting worse or better.
If you want to know more about that look at some of the threads with "Carebear" in the title... they want death penalties.
Some games now are even offering Permadeath... once you die, you're dead.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
It seems that the carebear is the majority of the players in the MMOG. So if the developers want to do some business they need to create what people want. Death penalties work fine for PvE game. Permadeath, even tho alot of people hate it, would be something for PvP games to have.
Tho I wouldnt bet on Permadeath lasting very long. Either that the game will continue having very low population or will be cancelled. Nobody will want to end up losing everything they played for three months then end up getting unlucky.
Tho the point of my question was if a developer wants his game to be successful, he need to create what people want and get the most people in his game and keep them. Players as a whole right now are deciding on that right now. Permadeath would be one of those that would be phased out in a hurry or they might as well close their doors.
Really games are there to be fun. Its not a job. People like me like to come home from their work or RL and relax killing stuff or doing quests. People understand that death is something that is in common in all games, but it shouldnt be something that ruin everything.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Exactly
I love PvP, but hate the fact of losing xp, etc. The only penalty I think should be implemented is loss of items from your corpse being looted. It worked fine in UO.
RF Online|LostGrace-3x Cora Caster-Spirit Server-Active
Lineage 2|LostGrace-4x Elemental Summoner-Gustin Server-Deactivated, Kiltor-3x Elven Oracle-Gustin Server-Baned T_T
I think a good mediation would be no exp loss on PvE deaths but a small amount on PvP deaths.
I think it'd be a good middle point.
Creator of Etherea: Dark Genesis
A Fantasy/Mythical MMORPG in development
Found at www.etherea-dg.com
I think the perfect Death penelty would be for a certain period of time (depending on your level) your caracters stats are weaker a few points for a bit, if you die over and and over it stacks, and a cool feature to a death penelty would be lets say the apearence of a peice of the equipment your wearing gets a dent or a gash kinda like a battle scar and its max duriblility will be lowered, you could get your equipment repaired but not to it max potential. make items wear and tear so even if you are max level even if you fight the super uber armor you coleccted won't always be avalable if all you do is die, and that would also give a play a motive to keep looking for something new, armor getting old find new armor. i don't know encorperate all i just said into a death system and i would very much like it ands prefer it over exp loss.
wowowo I cant stand dying, wowowo please don't take all my reward
Man, games can be fun with penalty. Because this makes u not want to die
The problem is u are used to WoW
You are used to have items worth 40 accounts together
You are used in spending 5 hours in a instance to get 0-2 items
Well thats a job, thats not fun for me.
I like the idea of being able to PK someone and get his stuff.
I like the idea that someone is able to do the same to me.
I like to choose between I WANT to PK being a fighter, or I DONT WANT TO being a crafter
I like to make the game fun in every way, not in the strongest guy
I'm used to UO. Thats how that game was, you could be a richfuck by crafting, or you could be a PvP god and lead a powerful guild... or you could just play the game
Jesus, NO DEATH PENALTY is just too much for me... not even exp loss?
Man even in Diablo II you lose cash and exp when you die. Thats just retarded, don't you want to gain stat increases for 10 minutes after dying, so you can get ur corpse again?
Oh wait u dont need to get ur corpse..
sheesh
By the way, I NEVER played a MMORPG as a job. In UO you could be good, just let some macros play. If you say thats cheating or that ur not playing, well guess what you don't have to, you can play the game... its not going to make u any worse, or take more time. Its not fucking other players up because theres skill cap aswell... WoW is just too limited and you got used to its emptyness.
I vote for Tibia death penalty
10% exp loss - You may choose to pay in shrines to lose up to 5%
corpse loss - You may buy talismans that prevent up to 40% item loss
Plus, Tibia have non-pvp servers and pvp-enforced servers. The non-pvp is obvious, and pvp enforced means each player u kill, u get 10% exp from him. Its just SO much fun. Its not a job, unless u are frustrated and want to be a hero even playing very bad... then you can go play other games, its not like I'm asking you to stop playing and shit. Heroes are meant to be the skilled guys, not everyone
"If everyone is super, then there is no super" - The Incredibles (I don't know if thats the exact quote, thats how they say in my language
Try to have fun not being super...
wowowo I cant stand dying, wowowo please don't take all my reward
Man, games can be fun with penalty. Because this makes u not want to die
The problem is u are used to WoW
You are used to have items worth 40 accounts together
You are used in spending 5 hours in a instance to get 0-2 items
Well thats a job, thats not fun for me.
I like the idea of being able to PK someone and get his stuff.
I like the idea that someone is able to do the same to me.
I like to choose between I WANT to PK being a fighter, or I DONT WANT TO being a crafter
I like to make the game fun in every way, not in the strongest guy
I'm used to UO. Thats how that game was, you could be a richfuck by crafting, or you could be a PvP god and lead a powerful guild... or you could just play the game
Jesus, NO DEATH PENALTY is just too much for me... not even exp loss?
Man even in Diablo II you lose cash and exp when you die. Thats just retarded, don't you want to gain stat increases for 10 minutes after dying, so you can get ur corpse again?
Oh wait u dont need to get ur corpse..
sheesh
By the way, I NEVER played a MMORPG as a job. In UO you could be good, just let some macros play. If you say thats cheating or that ur not playing, well guess what you don't have to, you can play the game... its not going to make u any worse, or take more time. Its not fucking other players up because theres skill cap aswell... WoW is just too limited and you got used to its emptyness.
I vote for Tibia death penalty
10% exp loss - You may choose to pay in shrines to lose up to 5%
corpse loss - You may buy talismans that prevent up to 40% item loss
Plus, Tibia have non-pvp servers and pvp-enforced servers. The non-pvp is obvious, and pvp enforced means each player u kill, u get 10% exp from him. Its just SO much fun. Its not a job, unless u are frustrated and want to be a hero even playing very bad... then you can go play other games, its not like I'm asking you to stop playing and shit. Heroes are meant to be the skilled guys, not everyone
"If everyone is super, then there is no super" - The Incredibles (I don't know if thats the exact quote, thats how they say in my language
Try to have fun not being super...
Witty saying to amuse you goes here.
Permadeath would be cool if implemented properly. Inheritance of skills, items, etc would make it acceptable to me. Think about how many characters you create, recreate, etc. Also, this would add a very good element to RPing. Your character would actually have a true history.
Well IMO there has to be some form of penalty for dying. Whatever it is, it should piss you off when you die. Otherwise, what is there to get excited about when you win a fight? Where is the fun in having it easy?
If there were no real penalty for dying people would just rush head first into any situation, no matter how high the chances are that you would die doing so.
I think death penalties are too easy on people to be honest. I hate dying as much as anyone...isn't that the point?
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I thought AC was the best. You'd randomly lose items but the expensive (value, not what you think is the value) ones would drop more frequenly which makes more sense to carry around a second weapon in case your primary weapon drops on your corpse where you need to retrieve it. That and the vitae system, let's just say that maximum vitae you can get is 40% and you'd have to be 'really' unlucky to get that.
EDIT: I should also mention it reduces your stats AND skills temporarily until you work the vitae off by killing monsters. You get 3% each kill I think so I think that system works best because for every time you die, you'll be just digging an even bigger hole.
Okay losing exp and levels in death is a system that makes games not fun even more so when it is PVP Kill when your a low level trying to level up and have a good time and all of a sudden you have an arrow in your back and your dead... and you lose you level cause of someons meaningless killing spree of going on a newbie hunt. my idea for a good death system would be to lose points on you max stats for a period of time, higher the penelty the higher your level, and if you die constantly is stacks, but it would have a capping point, added on to that another penelty where a piece of armor that you are wearing its max durablily would lower ( you could get it repaired but it would not be repaired to full potential) also make the apperence of the item have a dent or a gash. This way high or max leveled characters always have something to do my armor is getting old and torn time to find new better armor, it would be a nice realistic touch i think well that is my opinion you may agree or disagree, personaly i think that would be a good balanced death system.
I agree 100%. the Asheron's Call series had a great death penalty system.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
There needs to be a sort of time sink death penalty atleast IMO, I don't find PvP very interesting when the people I kill just pop right back up 10 seconds later, it just makes the game a big zerg.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
After seeing how popular World of Warcraft has become, new MMORPGs won't have permadeaths or XP debts to pay off anymore, which is a plus cause I mean what's the point? To punish us cause we did something we shouldn't have? Isn't it anoying enough that when I die, I still lose time? Why make us lose even more time to remain the XP we worked hard for to get in the first place?
Just cause there's no XP debt in World of Warcraft doesn't mean we're all just gonna kamekaze attack everything we see and if we win or lose, we don't lose anything cause we DO LOSE SOMETHING: TIME!!!
How many people left MMORPGs in the past cause they server lagged and died, or died cause they just coudln't do a certain quest, and ended up with so much XP debt they lost over 2-3 days worth of work.
And besides, WoW proved to the world that casual gamers is the way to go! Why develop for hardcore players which represent a minority of the MMORPG gaming population and it won't make the game developers richer?
___________ ___ __ _ _ _
Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
Agreed, there need to be some penatly for dying. Perma-death, XP loss, and item looting may be a bit extreme, but I'm for longer rez timers and/or having rez areas further away from the combat site.
As for the carebear v. hardcore pvper argument, that's why I like the WoW server model. IMO having the option to join either a PvP or Normal (PvE) server is the best option.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Its just a lame mechanism to keep people playing longer. I prefer my idea where the longer you're alive whilst experiencing you get bonuses and if you die you lose those bonuses. Makes more sense.
To add, I loved UO's death penalty. I'm not speaking of the looting, but of the ghost realm. You could choose to immediatley resurrect with stiff temp stat penalties, or wander around and find a healer to rez you without penalties. The bad thing about that is you would have to leave your body for one, and for two you could have been somewhere secluded and could not find anyone at all.
I don't see how xp loss makes a game fun :S
Games are meant to be fun
not about gaining xp :
thats my problem with mmorpgs, i can think of better things to do with my time!
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Don't click here...no2
It doesn't matter if it's PvP or not. It should be related to how easy it is to bve killed in the game. If it is easy to die (one or a few blows to kill your character) the penalty should be small. If it is hard to die (even the low lvl battles taking a minute or two) then the penalty should be great. I think perma-death is a little extreme. I think I'd like to try it, but I have a feeling that it would take the fun out of the game after a while, especially if I didn't die that often, because I'd grow even more attatched to my character. My personal philosphy is that you should never lose anything that you can't get back, in time (and yes, no matter how uber an item is, you CAN recover them)
In SB, there are two kinds of players, those that have been killed recently, or those who are about to be killed. You lose your items that aren't equipped and on some servers, you lose a paltry amount of xp. If SB was something like Perma-death, the servers would be even more deserted than they are now. Its not a question of "Are these good or bad penalties?" It's a question of "Are these good or bad penalties for this game?" Also, if there is a fps element to combat, then you lose less than you would otherwise, so the penalties can be stiffer than they could be otherwise and still allow you to keep your character competitive.