And the nerf juggernaut just keeps rolling

Somnulus

A very recent announcement on the official boards in the Developer's Corner:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3826972&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Unbelievable.  Just truly unbelievable. I thought the game had slowed to a crawl when I finally threw in the towel just before I5.  This new development is just awful.

I honestly feel very sorry for those who have stuck with and defended Cryptic since I4 and on.  Even the most staunch forum supporters for the game are awestruck.

This is just really, really sad.

Wepps

Look up my very first post warning about precisely this chain of events taking place in the main forums.

Once you listen to the first nerf-whiner, there is no turning back. You must balance everything mathematically, and thereby remove all the fun out of the game.

BTW, the very first nerf-whine of any MMO ever created took place on day-8. It's always day-8.

Hey Statesman - found them....

Here...

Somnulus

You know what the single most absurd, ridiculous thing about this is? Everyone who quit pre-I5 told them this was going to happen.  We told them repeatedly that Cryptic was homogenizing the archetypes.

And what did we get for it? Verbally attacked and abused on the official boards, told we were a pack of frothing powerlevellers, that we didn't know how to have "fun" and that we just couldn't stand a challenge.

Now, barring a glaringly small percentage of posters in that topic, nearly every single one is talking about how they "survived the global nerfs of I5" only to have to face another potential respec.

I'd like to know where all those people were while we few protesters were being abused by the fanbois.

It would almost be worth it to sub again just long enough to tell those people that they got exactly what they asked for, and that they should have voted against I5 with their wallets while they had the chance.

CoH I3 was the last issue that should have included any power changes, period. Every single issue post-I3 should have been about content, new powers, new areas and the SSOC Cryptic has jabbered about since what, I2?

It's sad... but at the same time, it's really amusing.  Compounding the tragedy are the number of posters who haven't even been subscribed that long.... a good portion of them have no idea how truly super we were at release or how fast and fun the game really was. They'll never know.

 

Anofalye

Paragon city is to small for me and the Hamidon. 

 

However, I dont really see what the big problem with this nerf is.  It is far less problematic than all the others changes....yet it is affecting everyone, making them less heroics, more humans...equally, no distinction of AT or anything.

 

This nerf is FAIR at the very least, it doesnt screw the regen scrappers beyond the scale anymore.  Yes, they are nerfed, like everyone else, but not outside the scale.  Solo nerf (no target worth soloing anymore) and the change to IH so now they have downtime rather than have no downtime are the 2 big nerfs I still dont digest.

 

Reducing every existing hero...*shrug*, at least it is fair, everyone take the hit!

 

But all this is part of the PvP modelling guys, they balance ATs for PvP...now if they want players to focus on PvP, they just make PvE incresingly harder so peoples PvP more...all those changes where done for PvP, not for PvE balance, but for PvP...I2 (or Issue 1, eh, this is sometimes, prior the accolades) was perfect for PvE balance, each class has a reason to exist(except Dark scrappers which obviously are not on the priority list of Cryptic) and there was only needing to add challenge, not nerfed anyone...but since their focus is PvP, they need to nerf and balance folks for PvP...in PvP to limit the increase of damage is what they want...they dont want to many 1 shot kills.

 

I have turn my back on this game and I wont return.  But now, folks crying about this make me laugh.  Those changes are MINORS and they are FAIRS for everyone.  I think those changes were long due, stacking the same bonus should always be harder and less rewarding...

 

I always defend the casuals when they cried out loud against the accolades (even if personnally I was enjoying them).  I never told a casual the accolades where rights, they always where wrong and missplaced and I always support them.  When folks propose PvP in a way like WoW, I defend it despite the fact I will stick to a PvE server and never PvP.  But when folks try to abuse other, even if I would benefit from it, I denounce it if I understand it.  I can pinpoint many of the current complainers who yesterday where praising the accolades or the Hamidon!  And somehow...I feel pleasure in reading their crying messages!

 

Anyway, cry over details if you want, those changes are details, they are nothing but slight details.

 

Somnulus: Before taking out the mass, you take their elite away!  Once the mass doesnt have their elite to defend them anymore, you slaughter the mass.  The elite players with great arguing skills where naturally in the strong combos, by taking the strong combo before, you get the mass to applaud and get rid of their elite...an elite who was helping them and cheering them, grouping them, playing with them, enjoying the same game they where.  But out of jealousy, they where happy to see that elite taken down.  Now that the elite is gone, you may have a big confuse mass that has issues to defend itself...and the elite is gone, so it is all the easier.  I think Cryptic devs understand that and are taking an evil pleasure in doing it in this fashion, they must be experiencing a near "sex orgasm" now that the mass are crying, I know something was wrong with those devs!    Sick sick devs!

Wepps

---

Originally posted by Anofalye

However, I dont really see what the big problem with this nerf is.  It is far less problematic than all the others changes....yet it is affecting everyone, making them less heroics, more humans...equally, no distinction of AT or anything.

---

The problem isn't with this nerf.

The problem is with the philosophy of nerfdom.

There has never been A nerf in a game. There has only been the original nerf, followed by the tons of required follow-ups to restore the balance caused by the indignation of those who perceive an injustice.

It's catching. Player1 says, "Blasters can do THIS ... what the hell I can't do that!" Eventually, after it catches on like a tumor, the developers fall into the trap of perceiving the injustice themselves, rather than sticking to the design concept. They then...nerf that and the tumor leaks, spreading the cancer to the rest of the body.

Once the developers create the environment in which players can whine their way into having the next guy's content removed, everybody else joins in and it becomes a series of nerfs.

Eventually all the people that were doing the nerf-whining in the first place have left the game, usually because it is now so unbalanced.

Fact 2 - there has never been a nerf...that added fun content to a game.

Since fun content IS the game, removing it serves only to reduce the playability. Reduced playability means reduced value of the product, and the price drops. They have no choice, because they have also served only to alienate those whom they nerfed.

Balance is not nearly as important as fun game play. If the mathematics is wrong, and people are having fun, the creative solution is the one in which a method is found to apply the perhaps overlooked fun concept to the rest of the players, not removing the fun content from the first group. This has always been a major flaw in the reasoning of the developers of a post-release product.

The single greatest error in judgment by this development team after release...the addition of an Arena, to promote balance for the upcoming PvP expansion.

With this major error in place, a seeming addition of interesting and fun content, they are forced to mathematically balance all archetypes one versus the other to promote that justice they so blindly seek.

This constitutes a major change to an existing product that people have invested in...and no good ever comes from this, even when the changes are GOOD ones (which these are not).

In the end, the basic fact is that this game is not nearly as fun as it was at release, and it would take a considerable amount of additional content at all levels to correct this error.

LackeyZero

---

Originally posted by Wepps




Originally posted by Anofalye
However, I dont really see what the big problem with this nerf is.  It is far less problematic than all the others changes....yet it is affecting everyone, making them less heroics, more humans...equally, no distinction of AT or anything.

The problem isn't with this nerf.

The problem is with the philosophy of nerfdom.

There has never been A nerf in a game. There has only been the original nerf, followed by the tons of required follow-ups to restore the balance caused by the indignation of those who perceive an injustice.

It's catching. Player1 says, "Blasters can do THIS ... what the hell I can't do that!" Eventually, after it catches on like a tumor, the developers fall into the trap of perceiving the injustice themselves, rather than sticking to the design concept. They then...nerf that and the tumor leaks, spreading the cancer to the rest of the body.

Once the developers create the environment in which players can whine their way into having the next guy's content removed, everybody else joins in and it becomes a series of nerfs.

Eventually all the people that were doing the nerf-whining in the first place have left the game, usually because it is now so unbalanced.

Fact 2 - there has never been a nerf...that added fun content to a game.

Since fun content IS the game, removing it serves only to reduce the playability. Reduced playability means reduced value of the product, and the price drops. They have no choice, because they have also served only to alienate those whom they nerfed.

Balance is not nearly as important as fun game play. If the mathematics is wrong, and people are having fun, the creative solution is the one in which a method is found to apply the perhaps overlooked fun concept to the rest of the players, not removing the fun content from the first group. This has always been a major flaw in the reasoning of the developers of a post-release product.

The single greatest error in judgment by this development team after release...the addition of an Arena, to promote balance for the upcoming PvP expansion.

With this major error in place, a seeming addition of interesting and fun content, they are forced to mathematically balance all archetypes one versus the other to promote that justice they so blindly seek.

This constitutes a major change to an existing product that people have invested in...and no good ever comes from this, even when the changes are GOOD ones (which these are not).

In the end, the basic fact is that this game is not nearly as fun as it was at release, and it would take a considerable amount of additional content at all levels to correct this error.

---

   First off, I think this nerf is minor...I really cannot see the point of view of those that complain...I mean, yes it's a nerf, but it's hardly anything that really affects gameplay that much...( You're still capable of maintaining min/max stuff, by simply leaving the enh in the same powers you had before)...Also, since the nerf for I5 was done using this Diminishing return system, this will bring the unbalanced powersets of I5 more in line with other powers(ex: Invul vs. Fire amour...Invul/Temp Invul has higher base value than Fire/Fire Shield)

   As for the entire issue of nerfing...Lets say it was I2 or I3 up until now...How long would a person play if it was pure PVE(No upcoming base raids or pvp zones because classes are unbalanced for that)...Honestly, I found levels 38-50 quite boring when I played during I2 and I3 (It's repetitive and I know even now, it would be just as boring for levels 38+)...The reason 38+ got boring was because you got all of your main powers already, there's nothing else to look forward to anymore...If they were to go the pve route instead of pvp ( and the salvage system that probably has something to do with pvp) then how much new stuff/variety can they really add...I'm not saying the everything is correct now, I think there's still quite a bit of necessary tweaking to do still...

As for IH being a click power now, it was the devs personal thoughts (Maybe Statesman's in particular), so if there was enough ppl to actually say they'd rather a weaker version toggle of before, then they'd probably change it...

Anofalye

Hehe.  I agree with Wepps, that once you give, you NEVER remove.

 

However, I take great fun in reading peoples complaining NOW, at such a puny, secondary, small, tiny, FAIR and relatively unoticeable nerf, when the very earth was destroyed the day they improve the AV/monster regen for me at least.

 

I5 was incredibly bad, but with the Hamidon and the new regen on AVs, the complete annihilation of the FUN of been a regen scrapper barely get a reaction from me.  The accolades are the start of this troubles, they make a new "elite" type of players, casuals left and I complain because the casuals where rightfully angered at the accolades.  They add the Hamidon and increase regen...I quit.

 

A general nerf against every player...nah, I dont react anymore! 

 

Personnally I was having a blast to see a blaster killing 20 monsters at once while been out of reach, a fire tanker killing tons of minions and never fearing for his life...and me soloing AVs (oh my precious Battle Maiden...some where boring and easy, and some where impossible however, but Battle Maiden was just fun)!    That was the old good time!  Not only did I leave the game, but I make a pre-order that I wont respect!  Which is something that NCsoft can react to, since EBgames wont be happy having an extra copy that they dont sell.

 

Now with CoV, they will screw all peoples who doesnt PvP, it is a bad design IMO, worser than having no PvP at all is to enforce PvP on everyone.

Somnulus

---

Originally posted by Wepps


Balance is not nearly as important as fun game play. If the mathematics is wrong, and people are having fun, the creative solution is the one in which a method is found to apply the perhaps overlooked fun concept to the rest of the players, not removing the fun content from the first group. This has always been a major flaw in the reasoning of the developers of a post-release product.
The single greatest error in judgment by this development team after release...the addition of an Arena, to promote balance for the upcoming PvP expansion.
With this major error in place, a seeming addition of interesting and fun content, they are forced to mathematically balance all archetypes one versus the other to promote that justice they so blindly seek.
This constitutes a major change to an existing product that people have invested in...and no good ever comes from this, even when the changes are GOOD ones (which these are not).
In the end, the basic fact is that this game is not nearly as fun as it was at release, and it would take a considerable amount of additional content at all levels to correct this error.

---

A fairly accurate statement from start to finish.  I would only disagree on one point. 

The single biggest flaw with this whole balancing act was that it was completely unnecessary.  The beta testers, the players and the developers all went to great lengths to explain that some archetypes were damage, some were mixed, some were support and some were utility.  Every single archetype had its role to play and any player who chose a support/utility archetype should have had no illusions about their role or that they would ever be the king of the battlefield.

None of that changed with the advent of the arenas.

It was up to the playerbase to find the mix of archetypes and powers that were competitive.  But instead of doing that, by and large they went to the boards and complained unrelentingly about how unbalanced the classes were in PvP.

Meanwhile, groups of dedicated players were testing different individual and team builds to find the ones that would be competitive in PvP.  They were adapting their play to deal with their opponents.

Too bad that proved completely fruitless.  I realized that immediately after they introduced suppression to the test server and I suddenly realized that my stealth/super speed combination would no longer help me escape ranged/hover attacks.

What was the impact on PvE? Almost none.  On PvP, suddenly you were stuck in place taking damage for no apparent reason other than the fact that large groups of players complained about kiting and how unfair it was that superspeedsters could do "drive-by" attacks.

Ignore the fact that superspeed had absolutely no effect on flyers/hoverers who were untouchable by speeders. Or that after being attacked by a speeder, you basically had them on auto target and only had to fire. Or that drive-by attacks did negligible damage unless the target just stood there and took it without fighting back, asking for help or attempting to escape.

It was up to the playerbase to learn how to compete with their powers as they were and minus some hardcore PvPers who understood the task at hand, they failed.  The moment they failed, the dev team took it upon themselves to "balance" the game in response to the complaints.

And that brought CoH to the point it's at now.  Which, as you pointed out, is a game that is considerably less fun than it was at release.

 

Bladin

---

Now with CoV, they will screw all peoples who doesnt PvP, it is a bad design IMO, worser than having no PvP at all is to enforce PvP on everyone.

---

CoV does not force PvP, villains cant come to galaxy city, heroes can't come to the evil places w/e they are called. There will be areas where you can pvp, which will be designed around certain levels. So you won't have level 50s going to fight along with the 15s.

Supergroup raids will also be voluntary, its been said before that you will NEVER be forced to pvp.

Starting with issue 5 coh is being balanced around covs future. I know it sounds stupid. "Why not make the cov AT's as strong as cohs?" because CoHs AT's had too many strong points which made them overpowered when trying to balance around new AT's without making copy cat clones. Especially when they are trying to make ATs which are completely different then CoHs.

Once CoV gets into the picture(I can't wait myself!!!) I feel and know that the games "nerfs" will show themselves.

Buffs hurt the game as much as nerfs do. If they improved all the classes which werent overpowered, then they woulda had to buffed all the mobs quite a bit more, more mobs which work like sappers. Alot of other features which will annoy you to living hell, itll still take you longer to kill em, and youd still die alot more.

In the long run the game will be just as fun. Right now though? I'm having a blast.

Nerfs will always happen, if you can't deal with that, go play single player games and never update.

Anofalye

Zzzz...if the best rewards are inside PvP zones and subject to PvP conflict, then PvP is enforced.  Someone that doesnt PvP after CoV is released is a second class hero.  (Exactly in the same way, Raiding and Tradeskills are often enforced)

 

PvP is enforced in DAoC, CoV, Auto-Assault, Lineage 1 & 2, SoR, DnL, RYL, GW, SB...

 

PvP is not enforced in WoW (the PvP reward system is neat), EQ1 & 2, CoH(prior CoV), Vanguard, FFXI, DDO, HJ...

 

End of argument.

 

PS: It suprise me that I even have to explain that to someone who is suppose to be an achiever.  An achiever knows that the reward is enforcing.

 

PPS: It is the person who tells others to go away that should go away play single player games IMO.  If you are not mature enough to have an argument and are rude and tell peoples to leave and go away, maybe you should grow up and developp a personality.  MMO are meant to be socials, and to be socials you need to accept the others, not their ideas, but the others are never to be sent away, peoples who sent others aways should not play MMO until they can grow past that point.

Somnulus

---

Originally posted by Bladin



CoV does not force PvP, villains cant come to galaxy city, heroes can't come to the evil places w/e they are called. There will be areas where you can pvp, which will be designed around certain levels. So you won't have level 50s going to fight along with the 15s.
Supergroup raids will also be voluntary, its been said before that you will NEVER be forced to pvp.

Starting with issue 5 coh is being balanced around covs future. I know itsounds stupid. "Why not make the cov AT's as strong as cohs?" because CoHs AT's had too many strong points which made them overpowered when trying to balance around new AT's without making copy cat clones. Especially when they are trying to make ATs which are completely different then CoHs.
Once CoV gets into the picture(I can't wait myself!!!) I feel and know that the games "nerfs" will show themselves.
Buffs hurt the game as much as nerfs do. If they improved all the classes which werent overpowered, then they woulda had to buffed all the mobs quite a bit more, more mobs which work like sappers. Alot of other features which will annoy you to living hell, itll still take you longer to kill em, and youd still die alot more.
In the long run the game will be just as fun. Right now though? I'm having a blast.
Nerfs will always happen, if you can't deal with that, go play single player games and never update.

---

That is absolutely true... you are not being forced to PvP.  So why are these changes being forced on the PvE side of the game? Why are players being forced to accept constant reductions in power, efficiency and ingenuity? Why are even the players who have no intention of ever engaging in PvP being forced to accept this?

Your statement about the CoV ATs doesn't sound stupid, it simply makes no sense.  Global changes to the core game, City of Heroes, are being made to every archetype because it would be more difficult to make CoV archetypes with matching powerlevels and powersets? Changing a game the subscribers have already been playing for over a year is easier than matching new ATs that no one has any experience with to existing game mechanics?

That makes absolutely no sense on so many levels.  Basically by your hypothesis, the changes to the core game are being made because the developers at Cryptic lack the imagination to create new archetypes with competitive powers around the core game mechanics that they created?

One major point I'd like to emphasize that you mentioned here, as well; this is CoV's future. The unfortunate part here, is that a vast majority of CoV's purchasers are current CoH subscribers, many of whom are so outraged that they have already cancelled their pre-orders or charged them back.  That is the future facing CoV with these changes going through as proposed.

Again, the developers shouldn't be making any effort whatsoever to "balance" or bring up the support/utility classes; those classes are designed for a specific purpose and the subscriber playing them should know that.  They weren't designed to be damage dealers and their damaging abilities shouldn't be brought up to be anywhere in the same range as the archetypes who were designed to deal damage as a primary ability.

Nerfs do always happen; just not to every single player at one time... three updates in a row.  Anyone can handle a few single-class nerfs.  Nerfing every player in the game? Three patches in a row?  That's just a wee bit different.

 

baff

I concur with the above statement, the majority of sales for  an expansion pack is to existing owners.

I5 has really dampened the market.

It's not wise to piss on your customers right before asking them to buy another product.

I think COV will be a dud, I haven't seen COV and I don't expect I'll look. However good it is or isn't. the damage has already been done.

 

In it's day COH was an absolutely rocking game.

I don't predict a second expansion. 

useful

Someone beat me to posting this. I saw this myself.

They are nerfing AGAIN. This is coming for Issue #6 for City of Heroes. And I saw it coming.
This effects everyone AGAIN. I am so glad I cancelled my account when Issue #5 hit.
Ive said it time and time again. They change your character feel every patch. And this one
is gonna hurt.

I recommend everyone cancel there CoH account and ask for Statesman's resignation.
That production idiots over at Cryptic needs to be shot, hanged, and corpses burnt.
Just wanting to save you from the pain later when you get attached to your hero. Fyi.

PvE just got harder. The part that actually matters. PvP needs to go to hell.

TwilighAegis

Now, this IS foolish. Making it harder to solo, I'm ok with that, because if I remember when I played this game it was easy and tons more fun to go grouping. But this... Despecialization of skills. You know why skills should be specialized in the first part? Tactics. The use of different skills with different effects should lead to a better overall effect. If you nerf the difference and specialization in skills, you're nerfing the tactics in the game, which is what their doing. Eventually, you'll just end up with a million different damage skills, each just dealing higher damage than the last. You know what that sounds like? Runescape. The worst MMORPG in history. It was no different playing a mage from a warrior because you still just spammed the same button over and over again. HOPEFULLY this is not what happens here, and people will be allowed to double-specialize their skills instead of just generalizing them. Mmmm... speed of recast and range... this isn't so horrible . Just kidding, their still nerfing tactics .

However, with the release of CoV, this game is if anything going up not down. The original problem with this game that made me quit was the lack of anything new, different, and non repetitive to do. PvP and base building fall neatly into that category.

EDIT: It seems though that what their doing with COV and these nerfs is kicking out their old player base (who liked the game the way it was more) and trying to replace it with a new one (who will like the way it is now). Really stupid, but I might be one of those replacements. Of course, I really loved that taking 20 mobs at once thing. Heh, good times, my blaster on the roof taking 12 CoT minions.

Please note about everything above that I only played to lvl 14, and at my friends house.

Yeebo

By cutting the maximum boost a power can get in any one area from around 200% to around 100%, the maximum damage, healing, defense ect. that powers can achieve in the game is being cut by around 33%. That is an enormous across the board nerf to high level players (obviously it won’t affect low level players much).

If I had to speculate as to why there has been such rampant nerfing, I would say this: it’s because they screwed up the basic design of the game by making support characters completely dependant on groups to level. If a blaster or scrapper can scream through missions solo, why should they bother to sit around twiddling their thumbs until they can get a group with a defender or controller? That leaves two main archetypes in a pretty bad spot, since they absolutely need archetypes that don’t need them. There were two possible responses: 1. Give controllers and defenders just enough of a boost that (by clever use of their support and control powers) they can solo as well as a more offensive character, or 2. remove the ability to solo efficiently from the game entirely, forcing everyone into balanced groups. It’s pretty clear which route they picked.

Unfortunatley, this leaves the game balanced in such a way that it’s just another slow paced MMOPRG with a coat of superhero paint instead of a superhero MMORPG. When I pick up an issue of a normal superhero mag, I expect to see someone kicking ass and taking names, not barely being able to take down two regular street thugs. Even characters that are pretty low on the power scale like Electra and Hawkeye have little trouble with minions. Many characters like Thor, Hulk, Superman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man and many others could take down a regiment of regular military guys without breaking a sweat. In a superhero MMORPG I think a maxed out character should be just that powerful. But that is not the feel the devs seem to be going for in CoH. I realize that a fast paced game where you actually feel like a badass (ala Devil May Cry, Omnishou, Hulk Ultimate Destruction) is completely antithetical to what typical MMORPGs stand for (slow paced deliberate gameplay where reliance on other players is strongly encouraged), but it’s what I expect when a game claims to let you play a superhero. At the very least the game should go by as quickly as WoW, EQ II or DAoC. The devs seem to be aiming for something more along the lines of FFXI. To me this is simply the wrong genre for that kind of hideously slow paced gameplay.

I honestly think devs have completely lost site of the concept “make it fun, everything else is secondary.” I voted with my feet as soon as I5 hit, until more players do the same they aren’t going to do anything different.

Motorhead

While I'm not a CoH fanboi, I personally thought alot of the I5 screaming was unwarranted, but enough about that ....

I just read the nerf and I must say, that's disheartening to say the least...

I don't know what the Hell they're thinking with this one.

One of the most valid points I saw brought up was about travel powers being included.
The only thing you slot Fly with is Flight Speed..... Now I guess they want us to throw a couple Recharge Reductions in there?

I liked this post in the official forum:

---

Just give me a couple of Respecs now, so I can start respeccing already. It seems I'm forever doomed in this game to respec all my toons every other month, just because of all the new 'fun' coming our way.

Then I haven't even touched the fact if this is a good change or not yet.

---

I'm trying to think of one positive thing regarding this change, and .... I ... just ..... can't.

grapevine

Well to be fair, six slotting fly is a waste.  Isn't 3 SOs close to the cap (4 being cap)?

I must admit though, this nerf does have me concerned.  Which is something I've not felt with CoH to date.

 

Unknown

In additon to this being sad...Jack Emmitt and the Devs did another wonderful job with the  PR on this. They snuck on to the CoV forums first and were not originally going to post it on the CoH forums until peeps on CoV Beta were posting to CoH forums. Finally they had to post after 2 days...already over 500 PAGES of rants...anyone advise me of a new MMO to play?

bverji

  I appreciate the fact that the devs are trying to make the game better and balanced and regardless if I agree with all there choices in attempting this what I am offended by is the band aid attempts to get there. The devs need to figure out where they want the game to be and keep it on the test server until they are happy with it and then make all the changes they want done. I am beyond tired of having to re-design my characters all the time. The devs keep pushing experienced players away each time they decide to nerph things and the uncertainty of what’s next is frustrating as hell. If the devs have no long goal to where the game needs to be then they have no business using the live server as a breeding grounds for their ideas; and if they do have a long term vision they need to just get there, the game has been out way to long to be making these types of fundamental changes. Simply put they need to sh!! or get off the pot.

Ryowulf

I was going to rejoin the game and play again, but not now.

evilfixx

Please, if you don't like the game, then just don't play. If you think the game is nerfed or is a grind or whatever, don't play. If you don't care for changes, don't play. If you think you can do better, then go create an MMORPG of your own so people can whine about your changes that you thought out and weighed before you set them in motion. I'll bet if the things you whiners really wanted were implemented, you'd find something else to whine about. For those who come here and haven't played, then please make up your own minds.

bverji

 

Please, if you don't like what others have to say about the game, then just don't read the forum. If you think that people sharing their experinces and opinions is annoying then don't read the forum.  If you don't care for others peoples expressions about a subject then don't read the forum. If you think you can add something constructive then go create your own thread on an opinion so people can whine about how you don't have right to dissagree with their opinion. I bet if everyone quite the forums trollish fanboys like you would find something else to whine about. For those who come here to share an opinion, then please feel to do so, so others can make an informed opinion instead of one made just from onesided fanboi drivil.

useful

Well said bverji!

evilfixx

ooh trollish fanboys.... boy you put me in my place by not letting me state my opinion didn't you. Thanks for the copycat reply. I can sleep well knowing everytime I state an opinion that goes against the flow, i'll get a crappy response in the morning.

Wepps

Oh no, you martyred him. Now we'll never get rid of him.

bverji

Making a post to stop whining isn't an opinion. it isn't anything other then a self indulgent attempt to assert some percieved supperiority over other peoples opinions and as such has no merit.  So don't act as if your rights were some how trampled on. My use of your format of post was to illustrate how absurd your post was...sorry if you missed it, although it wasn't an attack persay. I gazed at your profile evilixx and it says your 32 if this is true I can't believe you still posses this self center veiw, often held by teenageers, of a world were other peoples opinions are nothing but whinig; grow up already it may serve you well in the world.

 

EDIT: Not to mention a reponse of "ooh trollish fanboys.... boy you put me in my place" that's a kin to nothing more then "I knowyou are, but what am I" seriously what are you, ten?