Originally posted by Jodokai I can't believe how many of read that and thought it was a bad thing. Please name something you can do in another MMO that you can't do in SWG. Now let me name the thousands of things you can do in SWG that you can't do in any other game on the market. Every other game out there - Not allow stinking god classed jedi. There you go. Something you can do in EVERY SINGLE game out there that you cant avoid in SWG. Even things for non-jedi just screams "BE A JEDI NOW AND GIVE US YOUR DANG MONEY FOR 6 MONTHS!!!" I have no idea what you're trying to say here, but the question is name something you can do in WoW, EQ, AC etc that you can't do in SWG. Is there someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the really big words? I said other games do NOT have jedi to deal with so in other games you do NOT have to deal with them in other games. Hence something you can do in those games that you cant avoid in SWG. When you say the game has so much potential but doesn't live up to it, most of the reason it doesn't is because of you. You have to do the work, you have to use your imagination. You mention that WoW, AC and the others don't have instructions, that's because they've taken the imagination out. They hand you a task you do it etc. In SWG they give you the tools to create your own tasks. No they give us a task but refuse to give us the tools. Only recently (within the past 6months) did they add anything like tools. And a bunch of planet flags and rentable scenery didnt really give us the tools. So basically as long as your imagination goes only as far as yet another wedding or party where everyone sits around and chats then your good to go. But if your imagination is even remotely large enough to think past a footrace or fishing open then your still SOL. Are you kidding me? I've been participating in player events pretty much since day one. PvP, houses, cities, different gear all of these are tools I have been to a ton of them too. All the same thing. Someone hosts a party (because that is all it is) and shows off their house then a few people get bored and start duels outside unless the host decided to put duels in. A house party, race, or fishing open. Wow. How freaking imaginative to see the same thing every single dang time. Those tools they gave us (flags and scenery) reminded me of lawn parties. You ever hear of those? Men standing around playing horse shoes, women preparing food, and kids running amok.... Lawn parties went out of style back in the 70s. Yet here we are with them again... Yah Jodo fire up that imagination and get to work. "I think this time I will put the TIE Bomber on the left of the house. That is using my imagination." If that's all your imagination can come up with, then you're right SWG isn't for you. You would be better with WoW and the like that walks you though quests so you don't have to come up with anything on your own. It's the difference between being a GM and a player. I'm very much the GM type. Lets hear some more ideas then Jodo. Mr. I Know Everything Fanboi should have tons of ideas huh? But all you do is say how its possible. You dont actually tell us any of your ideas. So come on sizzle chest lets here some. Anything besides a house party, race, or fishing contest. I tried a few times to create contests and content for rangers way back. But the tools arent there. I tried to make a real mission pack but the tools arent there. Want to find someone provided real tools? Go look at the Ryzom Ring. Now that is how you give players real tools to create their own content. And when its released it will be something you can do in another game that you cant do in SWG.... Not to mention the developers missed a perfect money sink opp here. People liked the scenery and wanted it on a permanent basis. But SOE and LA couldnt and wouldnt let that happen because they still use that cheap outdated database that has led to at least 70% of all bugs in the game and allowing permanent additions would have killed the DB no matter how much they charged to keep them permanent. Right that cheap outdated database that makes the most complex MMO created possible. One that even the most jaded critic says has one of the best crafting systems in an MMO. Did you ever stop to consider how much stuff is needed to keep track of? I mean compare it to WoW, which has no housing, is level based (very limiting), and every widget crafted has the same stats, and that's just the begining. That database has led to 70% of the game's bugs. And I have had several licenced techs including two databse managers tell me so. Oracle is a database for corporations and was never designed to handle the load to a MMO. Especially one like SWG that tracks every single item in the game with its own serial number. There are alot better premade databases out there that cost the same or less they could have used. Or they could have created their own in house. CoH has less bugs but it also has less options. All you can do is fight. In SWG I can do anything I want. There has to be a trade off. Trade off eh? Ok lets tell everyone that lost their house, had a mob warp on top of them and killed them, buttslid out of camp into a nightsister, or ran into the middle of a bunch of SBDs at 0,0 that it was a trade off and they better just accept it because Jodo says so. Be sure to tell them about the other DBs out there that could handle the job alot better too. I am sure they will understand. You get right on that ok? I compare them to books. WoW and most of the rest are choose your own adventrue books. You read the book make a couple of choices and it leads you to the end of the story. SWG is a blank book with a few paragraphs here and there that allows you to write your own story. This type of game isn't for everyone, and it seems every day it gets further and further away from what societiy wants. I mean today it's why read the book when I can watch the movie. WoW is the movie SWG is the book. Not saying one is better than the other they are just different. But your own low expectations fail so see what SWG could have been once again. SWG could have been both. A write your own and follow along. A movie and a book. Its a massive galaxy with room for everyone and every play style. Too bad SOE and LA cant see that. But if its our fault for not having imagination then its also our fault (yours and mine) because we dont force them to see. We go along and give them kudos when we should be slapping the tar out of them. My expectations aren't low, and I also don't give them kudos when I shouldn't. There is a different in understanding the complexity of what I'm asking for and saying everything is "perfect". Your the one who runs around saying 250k is more then a successful STARS WARS mmo arent you? *checks the lists* Yep thats you. So you obviously have low expectations. You let them slide with so many things and justify a ton for them. One of the many who justify their being and doing. So they dont have to actually fix the game the way it should be. "If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem." As someone else pointed out. Its easy to go into WoW or EQ2 and write your own. Just ignore the questable stuff. But a person wanting to follow along cant follow along too much in SWG can they? No there is no comparison between what can be created in SWG to what can be created in WoW or EQ2. What can you possilbly create even if you ignore the quests? As far as Lucas himself picking out the Developers, that's a horrible idea. Dev1: I've created the greatest engine/game ever seen on the planet. Lucas: How much? Dev1: I need to break into the genre, I'll give it to you for 100 dollars. Dev2: I've got this worthless piece of crap, but people can play it. Lucas: How much? Dev2: $99.99 Lucas: SOLD Oh I remember a few years back, sitting and watching CNN. The news story was about a few 18 wheelers that had been delivering something to ILM. Seems Lucas bought himself some major high priced computer that would make C-3PO wet. Cant remember but I think it was a Gibson. So I really doubt he would save himself a penny. Since the rumor is SOE is using the UO2 engine I guess they werent the right ones to pick eh?
If you do any research at all, you'd realize that all Lucas cares about is money. He will sell anything out if it means more money. I think it's pretty funny that people think he's a god of all that's good and pure just because he wrote a good story.
No it means he knows he has to spend money to make money. I never said he was good and pure. He thought up midichlorians remember? One of the single worst things to put in Star Wars.
So he wont be the US Military and accept the smallest bid. And you know it. You just want to throw all blame for everything on one man. I really doubt Lucas is sitting at SWG HQ lording over the developers. I really doubt he has talked to them much.
If you want to know who to blame then here you go. Listen up sparky.... You blame us. All of us. Because we all have such low expectations. Every year games are released with more and more problems. And the game companies know this. Because WE the gamers let it happen. You can deny it all you want but WE allow them to pass it off to us. We even make up excuses for them like you did just now. Saying you understand the complexity of it all. Basically acceptng the problems because you think its so complex.
You think making a car is any less complex? What would happen if one was released in the condition of games like SWG? What about if an architect built a structure with the issues of a game like Mourning? Would you fly on an airline with a release like AO?
Games are intriguing to me because they are the only area where we as consumers accept less willingly. Our wallets our out and credit cards used quicker in it then anything else yet we are paying for something in horrible condition.
We allowed SWG to go on as is. We allowed them to put in jedi eventhough deep down we knew it would cause issues. Even at release we knew the database was shite but we let them continue. We let them get away with all this in short order. Only a few times have we as a community fought the developers. Wookie Armor, Crafting Nerf, XP nerf, etc. But you know what? Each time we won. But for some odd reason we wont step up to get the big issues fixed.
So its our fault. Blame marketting, George Lucas, SOE, the guy who cleans the bins all you want but we are the ones to blame. Whenever we accept less. Whenever we make up excuses for them. Whenever we justify their work. We are the ones who should be blamed.
Originally posted by grapevine Didn't Q-3PO get "reassigned"?
Yes, he was promoted.
I need to work in a company like SOE. Raph Koster, Kevin O'Hara, etc. All promoted for making huge mistakes. I would be a shoe-in for President of Sony in a month.
Then again I would have some really stiff competition. Probably like the Original Sin concept.
Smedley - "You lied to the community on 36 occasions, brought 92 bugs into our games, implemented 67 new uneeded nerfs, invented a new easier way to get jedi in SWG, caused 19 servers across all the games to crash, forced thunderheart to look like a fool on 16 occasions, embezzled $70k, and urinated on my desk. So my evaluation is your only mediocre at best. You better step it up a notch before we have to let you go."
Just do like they do, and consult ouija-boards for decision making. Koster will be promoted to God and you can take his seat of power.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Wepps Just do like they do, and consult ouija-boards for decision making. Koster will be promoted to God and you can take his seat of power.
I thought they just tacked up a bunch of 3x5 cards with random idle ideas taking from sit-coms then sat around getting wasted and throwing darts.
Dont believe half their staff are wasted? Look at their naming team.... Baz Nitch, Huf Dun, and Nud Fuh. I half excepted to walk out of Theed and see a Foshizzle My Nizzle lair. heh
Baz Nitch, I used to love those little 0.5 mph buggers.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I only wish you knew about 1/8th of what you talk about. You talk about your butt and don't have a clue.
If all you can come up with is a party or fishing trip then I was right you don't have any imagination. Try looking on the Farstar server, check out Desert Sands Troopers website, check out the Bounty Hunters Guild on Naritus for awesome ideas that have nothing to do with parties or fishing.
Fact is there is a trade of. the Devs could have concentrated on one thing in SWG like combat, and left out everything else, and since we've seen how popular City of Heroes is we can see how well that worked out. Instead of just working on one thing and making it perfect, they spread themselves out and tried to include everything. Was it the right choice? Who can say, but according MMORPGChart SWG has more subscribers than CoH so I can only assume it was.
I ask you for something you can do in another mmo that you can't do with SWG and all you can come up with is some weak class specific thing. Sure you can't play a mage or half-elf but that's not really what I was getting at.
Originally posted by Jodokai Kai, I only wish you knew about 1/8th of what you talk about. You talk about your butt and don't have a clue. Ah mindless insults. The last desperate refuge of a person who knows he has lost. Thanks for the arguement. Last comments follow then I am considering this discussion at an end between you and I. If all you can come up with is a party or fishing trip then I was right you don't have any imagination. Try looking on the Farstar server, check out Desert Sands Troopers website, check out the Bounty Hunters Guild on Naritus for awesome ideas that have nothing to do with parties or fishing. You still havent come up with anything. I asked you for some of your emmy award winning "I know everything" imaginative ideas there Sparky and you have only pointed in a direction and said "Somewhere over there." Since you cant actually come up with anything then we can assume you dont have enough imagination to think of anything and hence prove my point wholeheartedly. Thanks for the fun. Fact is there is a trade of. the Devs could have concentrated on one thing in SWG like combat, and left out everything else, and since we've seen how popular City of Heroes is we can see how well that worked out. Instead of just working on one thing and making it perfect, they spread themselves out and tried to include everything. Was it the right choice?Who can say, but according MMORPGChart SWG has more subscribers than CoH so I can only assume it was. You obviously can say. But dont forget that the chart also proves that SWG is shite compared to Lineage, Lineage 2, and WoW. And before you say WoW is only a huge success because it came from a game.... Sims Online came from a game a hell of alot more popular then Warcraft and it stunk comparetively. Final Fantasy XI as well. And lastly Ultima Online. So please stop using that excuse in future posts. I ask you for something you can do in another mmo that you can't do with SWG and all you can come up with is some weak class specific thing. Sure you can't play a mage or half-elf but that's not really what I was getting at. No the fact is you cant stand being proven wrong. So you wont accept anything no matter what. I could have mentioned the Ryzom Ring in SoR, the content creation in Second Life, the group tool in CoH, RvR in DAoC, or various different server rulesets in several other games but again you would find some feeble excuse to say any of those dont count either. Fact is you created a challenge but you wont accept any answer. Because your that type of person. You see what your already believe and nothing else. EDIT: You asked what we can do in other games that you cant in SWG. That requires a personal choice and personal view. For me, not having to deal with an alpha class is a huge benefit of something you can do in other games that you cant in SWG. Being able to log into SoR, EQ2, WoW, and L2 has a great bonus when you dont have to worry about dealing with, directly or indirectly, an alpha class similar to jedi. And I thought you would have been intelligent enough to understand that distinction. But obviously I was wrong.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Ah mindless insults. The last desperate refuge of a person who knows he has lost. Thanks for the arguement. Last comments follow then I am considering this discussion at an end between you and I. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post, I'm just going to prove what an idiot you are. Here are some clippings from your last post to me: Is there someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the really big words Mr. I Know Everything Fanboi should have tons of ideas huh? So come on sizzle chest lets here some And that boys and girls is my proof Kai is a clueless moron
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I think the point of the post was to demonstrate that the Devs have NOT included a point to playing SWG besides grinding out a Jedi.
Lets face it SWG is has nothing to do with the SW universe. It takes place right after the battle Yavin BUT there are Jedi all over the place. The primary "adventure mode" is killing animals, and the Empire is nothing more then a prop. (as is the entire galactic civil war which basicly isn't happening)
Characters have no epic adventures to embark on, no Death Stars to raid, No blockades to run, No epic villians to defeat, no fleet scale battles.........nothing.
What is the reality of SWG? Do a few quest (if they arn't bugged) grind on random animals from a mission terminal. Master a profession, drop the profession and do it again.
The reason there are so many Jedi is because it is the only worthwile thing to do. Even that is just grinding and regrinding the same stuff.
I don't have a lack of imagination, THE FRICKIN DEV's do!!!! Its a game darn it, entertain me! If I gotta make up my own frickin content then I'll just go play the frickin pen and paper role playing game. Its better anyway.
What can I do in other games I can't do in SWG. PvP with meaning (lineage2, DAoC). Go on an epic quest or raid (WoW), be in a pretend storyline (guild wars, asherons call) Kill a few epic villians (City of Heroes, Asherons call, Lineage2, WoW)
You know what would be awesome in SWG? A point to being a Smuggler! Its some half baked class thats modifies weapons or make spice until you get tired of doing that, then dump it for your next profession to Jedi. Yeah real Star Warish.
How about a point to being an Entertainer? I love the idea of the dancer and musician - to bad they f***ed them all up.
The material to draw on for a SW universe is so large the first 3 movies didn't really even need them. Star Wars A new Hope, 1 old Jedi who gets cut in half by a sith, Empire strikes Back - 1 little toad who teaches a student, Return of the Jedi - 1 student, who at the end becomes a Jedi) The entire story took place in a huge universe with alot going on. Bounty Hunters never hunter Jedi. THERE WHERE NONE. They hunted guys like Smugglers who owed money to bad guys. Smugglers smuggled shit for various bad guys in hopes of making money. They didnt hang around shooting womp rats and Bols. (by the way, THIS is the timeline of the game)
Rebels tried to defeat the empire. They where not grinding out mindless "to - do" missions. They attacked bases, they defended bases, they gathered data (the whole Bothan reference) The secured new secret bases, they freed captives, they secured despiretly needed supplies and material for the war.........on and on. They made an impact on the STORY. I think we can all agree that all we want is a decent game for SWG. All it needs is a CREATIVE team to put it together.
2 years of garbage, hire the damn Asheron's Call team if you can't make a decent quest for Pete's sake, I'm sure they are ready to move on. Junk the mission terminals. They are a poor addition to ANY game.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Ah mindless insults. The last desperate refuge of a person who knows he has lost. Thanks for the arguement. Last comments follow then I am considering this discussion at an end between you and I. I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post, I'm just going to prove what an idiot you are. Here are some clippings from your last post to me: Is there someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the really big words Mr. I Know Everything Fanboi should have tons of ideas huh? So come on sizzle chest lets here some And that boys and girls is my proof Kai is a clueless moron
Lets show how clueless and useless you are Mr. I know Everything Fanboi. Of all of that the insult part was the only thing you stuck with. Didnt bother to answer the other arguement. So here you go sizzle chest. Lets watch you prove my point.
Name something you can do in any other game you cant do in SWG.
1) Ryzom Ring in SoR (not out yet but is coming).
2) Making full content with real tools in Second Life and There.
3) RvR and Sieges in DAoC and L2.
4) Player finding tools in CoH (The best ever by far).
5) Different ruleset servers in too many games to count.
6) Guild quests, guild controls, guild status in too many games to count.
There is a half dozen. Lets watch you go through and make up feeble excuses as to why those dont count to your challenge and hence prove my point that you hate being proven wrong.....
And if you need further proof, let me clip something from the same post (that was made 2 posts ago)
Ah mindless insults. The last desperate refuge of a person who knows he has lost. Thanks for the arguement. Last comments follow then I am considering this discussion at an end between you and I.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Lets show how clueless and useless you are Mr. I know Everything Fanboi. Of all of that the insult part was the only thing you stuck with. Didnt bother to answer the other arguement. So here you go sizzle chest. Lets watch you prove my point. Name something you can do in any other game you cant do in SWG. 1) Ryzom Ring in SoR (not out yet but is coming).
After highlighting the really important part of that statement, you find the answer is nothing, but I'll address it more fully in my next statement. 2) Making full content with real tools in Second Life and There.
I can make content with real tools in SWG also. There are containers players and objects. Again just because you're too unimaginative to use those tools, or too lazy to go where I've directed you to see how others have used them, doesn't mean they don't exsist, just means you're lazy and unimaginative. 3) RvR and Sieges in DAoC and L2. I can set up RvR and Sieges by declaring war on PA's. 4) Player finding tools in CoH (The best ever by far). This is more mechanics and not really what I was refering to, and I never said other games don't do things better. So what this really boils down to is CoH you can search for players, SWG you can search for players. Is CoH's better, yep, but SWG still has it. 5) Different ruleset servers in too many games to count. Again this has nothing to do with the game itself, but I'll play along. Name a ruleset I can't imitate with SWG. I consider that a weakness of other games. In SWG everyone can play however they want on every server. 6) Guild quests, guild controls, guild status in too many games to count. So you found 1. There is a half dozen. Lets watch you go through and make up feeble excuses as to why those dont count to your challenge and hence prove my point that you hate being proven wrong..... You can't (and haven't) prove me wrong. I offered a challenge, I never said there was nothing, I just asked if you could name something. Congrats after acting like an immature moron, you came up with one. Have gun I have many thanks for asking. Kai
Lets show how clueless and useless you are Mr. I know Everything Fanboi. Of all of that the insult part was the only thing you stuck with. Didnt bother to answer the other arguement. So here you go sizzle chest. Lets watch you prove my point. Name something you can do in any other game you cant do in SWG. 1) Ryzom Ring in SoR (not out yet but is coming).
After highlighting the really important part of that statement, you find the answer is nothing, but I'll address it more fully in my next statement. Your first feeble excuse right here. I will address further in my next statement. 2) Making full content with real tools in Second Life and There.
I can make content with real tools in SWG also. There are containers players and objects. Again just because you're too unimaginative to use those tools, or too lazy to go where I've directed you to see how others have used them, doesn't mean they don't exsist, just means you're lazy and unimaginative. Your second feeble excuse. Can you make content like in The games mentioned above? Can you make and deliver true storyline missions? No. Can you delievr completely new models and ideas? No. Can you control NPCs to say things and do things for your content? No. But in those games and you can or will be able do it. Hence number 1 and 2 still stands. 3) RvR and Sieges in DAoC and L2. I can set up RvR and Sieges by declaring war on PA's. Your third feeble excuse. So you are saying that if you declare war on the PA and win or lose that it greatly affects the world and changes everything going on within the game? Hmmm nope it doesnt. Hence you cant RvR or Siege in SWG. Number 3 still stands. 4) Player finding tools in CoH (The best ever by far). This is more mechanics and not really what I was refering to, and I never said other games don't do things better. So what this really boils down to is CoH you can search for players, SWG you can search for players. Is CoH's better, yep, but SWG still has it. Your fourth feeble excuse. The search feature in CoH is far better then SWGs ever could wish to be. And it amazes everyone who ever used it. You asked specifically for things you can do in other games that you cant do in SWG. This is one thing you can do BETTER then you can in SWG hence number 4 still stands. 5) Different ruleset servers in too many games to count. Again this has nothing to do with the game itself, but I'll play along. Name a ruleset I can't imitate with SWG. I consider that a weakness of other games. In SWG everyone can play however they want on every server. Your fifth feeble excuse. And in SWG everyone is forced to face other playstyles they may not want to deal with. Show me that Pre-CU server that lost so many players who would gladly reactivate for... Oh what you cant. Show me the no-jedi server that a large chunk of the player base as been literally screaming for.... Again you cant. And this is also whyI consider not having to deal with an alpha class something you can do in other games that you cant do in SWG. Everytime you log in you know that you will have to deal with jedi either directly or indirectly. But you think jedi are wonderful things I am sure and are really making the game a huge success huh? 6) Guild quests, guild controls, guild status in too many games to count. So you found 1. And this also helps stand with number 3 since you seem to think you can RvR and Siege in in PA wars but since there is no real guild status to win or lose you cant truly siege or RvR. Thanks for proving my point by ageeing. There is a half dozen. Lets watch you go through and make up feeble excuses as to why those dont count to your challenge and hence prove my point that you hate being proven wrong..... You can't (and haven't) prove me wrong. I offered a challenge, I never said there was nothing, I just asked if you could name something. Congrats after acting like an immature moron, you came up with one. I came up with 6. Nice now you call me an immature moron.... Thanks for proving my point. You hate to lose. You offered a challenge and you tried to fight each and every point like I knew you would because you hate being proven wrong. Next you will come back and start over again trying to pick apart each point instead of admitting you were wrong. So go ahead and make that post and get it over with. Or you will try to ignore the post completely and act like it never happened. Your choice skippy. Have gun I have many thanks for asking. Kai
Developers of SWG dont need to make up lies with fanbois like you. You do all the propoganda for them. You should get a medal.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Can you make and deliver true storyline missions? No. --> One can and many have (inlcuding me). Can you delievr completely new models and ideas? --> Ideas - One can and many have. See player event sections and my most liked example, "The Bountyhunter Guild" on Naritus. If you mean by models new skins for creatures etc. ... nope, not possible in SWG. Can you control NPCs to say things and do things for your content? No. --> One could for almost a year (NPC actors were available) but at the moment its use is suspended, because there have been so many cases of abuse (people placed them to shout obscenities in player cities of the other faction and guild). But in those games and you can or will be able do it. --> "will be able" ... be careful with that statement. As you see in the example above, players find uses for such "tools" like NPC actors that make the devs quickly regret implementing them. So the question is how long these things will be available, if at all, in other games that have even a small PvP element (with all the possible hate scenarios surrounding PvP). So you are saying that if you declare war on the PA and win or lose that it greatly affects the world and changes everything going on within the game? Hmmm nope it doesnt. --> Large PA wars almost always lead to change of planet control between Rebels and Empire and a change in the price of faction items. I call that a change to the world. And realm warfare in DAOC is not more than a change of control for a certain area ... its similar. However, large scale PvP is more stable in DAOC compared to SWG ( SOE claimed its because a typical SWG toon needs 10 times more data transmitted between client and server than a typical DAOC toon). --> Please name a game where such things "change everything going on within the game". You asked specifically for things you can do in other games that you cant do in SWG. This is one thing you can do BETTER then you can in SWG hence number 4 still stands. --> He asked for things that you can do in other games but not in SWG, you answer with something that can be done in both games. You did NOT answer his question. BEEP. - 50 points from Slitherin. And in SWG everyone is forced to face other playstyles they may not want to deal with. --> LOL. Have you ever played Ultima Online back in the day ? THAT was facing other playstyles you may not want to deal with ..... (newb = fooder for PKs) Everytime you log in you know that you will have to deal with jedi either directly or indirectly. --> Directly = 4 times out of 5 I never see a Jedi when I log in. Maybe someone is a Jedi, but he does not show a title or his robes or his glowstick, so it does not bother me. And if a Jedi buys from my vendor when I am offline (aka "indirectly") I could not care less. However ... if you spent 95 % grinding mindlessly on Dantooine Mining Outpost , you will see more.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Can you make and deliver true storyline missions? No. --> One can and many have (inlcuding me). Ok tell me how you make a repeatable storyline mission open for any player. And by the way. You have to do it all yourself and make it open to people while your offline. Can you delievr completely new models and ideas? --> Ideas - One can and many have. See player event sections and my most liked example, "The Bountyhunter Guild" on Naritus. If you mean by models new skins for creatures etc. ... nope, not possible in SWG. Again no you cant. However I can create new models and skins in some games. One game is even having the players design half of it before it has even entered beta. Can you control NPCs to say things and do things for your content? No. --> One could for almost a year (NPC actors were available) but at the moment its use is suspended, because there have been so many cases of abuse (people placed them to shout obscenities in player cities of the other faction and guild). Suspended or no, it cant be done. But in those games and you can or will be able do it. --> "will be able" ... be careful with that statement. As you see in the example above, players find uses for such "tools" like NPC actors that make the devs quickly regret implementing them. So the question is how long these things will be available, if at all, in other games that have even a small PvP element (with all the possible hate scenarios surrounding PvP). Since the game in question is full of mature players I have to say I seriously doubt it will be ever abused. Especially since I have read how its being implemented. So you are saying that if you declare war on the PA and win or lose that it greatly affects the world and changes everything going on within the game? Hmmm nope it doesnt. --> Large PA wars almost always lead to change of planet control between Rebels and Empire and a change in the price of faction items. I call that a change to the world. And realm warfare in DAOC is not more than a change of control for a certain area ... its similar. However, large scale PvP is more stable in DAOC compared to SWG ( SOE claimed its because a typical SWG toon needs 10 times more data transmitted between client and server than a typical DAOC toon). --> Please name a game where such things "change everything going on within the game". Lineage 2 and Seiges. When a guild falls its a big deal. I was in such a guild and watched as the entire story changed. Also SoR will have the samething when outposts are put in. Also lastly in SWG the other guild has to actually accept the challenge no? In L2, and most games with sieges or realm wars the other side has zero choice. You asked specifically for things you can do in other games that you cant do in SWG. This is one thing you can do BETTER then you can in SWG hence number 4 still stands. --> He asked for things that you can do in other games but not in SWG, you answer with something that can be done in both games. You did NOT answer his question. BEEP. - 50 points from Slitherin. Let me get specific then. In CoH you can search for anyone LFG even across the city while also looking for specific profession, origin (race), mission type wanted, and even a comments section so you can see exactly what the person is looking for. Can you currently do ALL of that in SWG. No? Then it still stands as 4. And in SWG everyone is forced to face other playstyles they may not want to deal with. --> LOL. Have you ever played Ultima Online back in the day ? THAT was facing other playstyles you may not want to deal with ..... (newb = fooder for PKs) That was then, this is now. Everytime you log in you know that you will have to deal with jedi either directly or indirectly. --> Directly = 4 times out of 5 I never see a Jedi when I log in. Maybe someone is a Jedi, but he does not show a title or his robes or his glowstick, so it does not bother me. And if a Jedi buys from my vendor when I am offline (aka "indirectly") I could not care less. However ... if you spent 95 % grinding mindlessly on Dantooine Mining Outpost , you will see more.
--> Have fun --> Erillion
Fact is I am now officially done with this arguement. He posted he would play MY little game but it was him who made the challenge. And then, just as I said he would, he argued every single point. Because he cant accept being proven wrong. So I have proven what I set out to prove about him. Now if he replies to this with any more arguing of points then he is only proving it more. Whether its 1 or 100, he offered a challenge and his challenge was countered. He didnt specify how many or how long. Just to name something in any game you cant do in SWG. I have shown him several. Whether he accepts this or not is up too him. But I know he wont. He has to get the last word in somehow so he will reply to argue it more or make some blanket statement about me.
Ok tell me how you make a repeatable storyline mission open for any player. And by the way. You have to do it all yourself and make it open to people while your offline. --> Place a vendor or a house. Craft an item. Offer it on a vendor or place them in the house. Name it so it gives a player hints (waypoints, names of areas) so he knows where to go next. Player hears about the quest from a circulating mail to those interested or post on forum or AFK announce it in Mos Eisley. Place e.g. a skeleton in the wilderness containing a part of the puzzle or a reward (if you want it more elaborate and unique .. you have to replace the skeleton every 8 hours if you choose this more elaborate version). --> Player starts the quest with the first item and by visiting other places, aquiring certain items (e.g. loot, from other vendors etc.) and delivering them to your vendor (and mailing you some information) he "wins" the quest. You can reward him with a cash price or a rare item.
I can create new models and skins in some games. --> I can add my own skins client wise, but not server wide. One game is even having the players design half of it before it has even entered beta. --> Pirates ? As I said .. be careful .. thats does not mean we will see it in the game. Many NICE to have stuff and many good ideas never make it into games. Suspended or no, it cant be done. --> Errm, did you hear me ? It was possible. Definitely. Just because you say it cant be done does not change the FACT. Since the game in question is full of mature players --> HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! --> How naive !
When a guild falls its a big deal. --> Its the same in SWG. AT least on Naritus. That was then, this is now.
Comments
If you want to know who to blame then here you go. Listen up sparky.... You blame us. All of us. Because we all have such low expectations. Every year games are released with more and more problems. And the game companies know this. Because WE the gamers let it happen. You can deny it all you want but WE allow them to pass it off to us. We even make up excuses for them like you did just now. Saying you understand the complexity of it all. Basically acceptng the problems because you think its so complex.
You think making a car is any less complex? What would happen if one was released in the condition of games like SWG? What about if an architect built a structure with the issues of a game like Mourning? Would you fly on an airline with a release like AO?
Games are intriguing to me because they are the only area where we as consumers accept less willingly. Our wallets our out and credit cards used quicker in it then anything else yet we are paying for something in horrible condition.
We allowed SWG to go on as is. We allowed them to put in jedi eventhough deep down we knew it would cause issues. Even at release we knew the database was shite but we let them continue. We let them get away with all this in short order. Only a few times have we as a community fought the developers. Wookie Armor, Crafting Nerf, XP nerf, etc. But you know what? Each time we won. But for some odd reason we wont step up to get the big issues fixed.
So its our fault. Blame marketting, George Lucas, SOE, the guy who cleans the bins all you want but we are the ones to blame. Whenever we accept less. Whenever we make up excuses for them. Whenever we justify their work. We are the ones who should be blamed.
Kai
Yes, he was promoted.
Yes, he was promoted.
I need to work in a company like SOE. Raph Koster, Kevin O'Hara, etc. All promoted for making huge mistakes. I would be a shoe-in for President of Sony in a month.
Then again I would have some really stiff competition. Probably like the Original Sin concept.
Smedley - "You lied to the community on 36 occasions, brought 92 bugs into our games, implemented 67 new uneeded nerfs, invented a new easier way to get jedi in SWG, caused 19 servers across all the games to crash, forced thunderheart to look like a fool on 16 occasions, embezzled $70k, and urinated on my desk. So my evaluation is your only mediocre at best. You better step it up a notch before we have to let you go."
Kai
Just do like they do, and consult ouija-boards for decision making. Koster will be promoted to God and you can take his seat of power.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I thought they just tacked up a bunch of 3x5 cards with random idle ideas taking from sit-coms then sat around getting wasted and throwing darts.
Dont believe half their staff are wasted? Look at their naming team.... Baz Nitch, Huf Dun, and Nud Fuh. I half excepted to walk out of Theed and see a Foshizzle My Nizzle lair. heh
Kai
Baz Nitch, I used to love those little 0.5 mph buggers.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Kai,
I only wish you knew about 1/8th of what you talk about. You talk about your butt and don't have a clue.
If all you can come up with is a party or fishing trip then I was right you don't have any imagination. Try looking on the Farstar server, check out Desert Sands Troopers website, check out the Bounty Hunters Guild on Naritus for awesome ideas that have nothing to do with parties or fishing.
Fact is there is a trade of. the Devs could have concentrated on one thing in SWG like combat, and left out everything else, and since we've seen how popular City of Heroes is we can see how well that worked out. Instead of just working on one thing and making it perfect, they spread themselves out and tried to include everything. Was it the right choice? Who can say, but according MMORPGChart SWG has more subscribers than CoH so I can only assume it was.
I ask you for something you can do in another mmo that you can't do with SWG and all you can come up with is some weak class specific thing. Sure you can't play a mage or half-elf but that's not really what I was getting at.
Have fun
Kai
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I think the point of the post was to demonstrate that the Devs have NOT included a point to playing SWG besides grinding out a Jedi.
Lets face it SWG is has nothing to do with the SW universe. It takes place right after the battle Yavin BUT there are Jedi all over the place. The primary "adventure mode" is killing animals, and the Empire is nothing more then a prop. (as is the entire galactic civil war which basicly isn't happening)
Characters have no epic adventures to embark on, no Death Stars to raid, No blockades to run, No epic villians to defeat, no fleet scale battles.........nothing.
What is the reality of SWG? Do a few quest (if they arn't bugged) grind on random animals from a mission terminal. Master a profession, drop the profession and do it again.
The reason there are so many Jedi is because it is the only worthwile thing to do. Even that is just grinding and regrinding the same stuff.
I don't have a lack of imagination, THE FRICKIN DEV's do!!!! Its a game darn it, entertain me! If I gotta make up my own frickin content then I'll just go play the frickin pen and paper role playing game. Its better anyway.
What can I do in other games I can't do in SWG. PvP with meaning (lineage2, DAoC). Go on an epic quest or raid (WoW), be in a pretend storyline (guild wars, asherons call) Kill a few epic villians (City of Heroes, Asherons call, Lineage2, WoW)
You know what would be awesome in SWG? A point to being a Smuggler! Its some half baked class thats modifies weapons or make spice until you get tired of doing that, then dump it for your next profession to Jedi. Yeah real Star Warish.
How about a point to being an Entertainer? I love the idea of the dancer and musician - to bad they f***ed them all up.
The material to draw on for a SW universe is so large the first 3 movies didn't really even need them. Star Wars A new Hope, 1 old Jedi who gets cut in half by a sith, Empire strikes Back - 1 little toad who teaches a student, Return of the Jedi - 1 student, who at the end becomes a Jedi) The entire story took place in a huge universe with alot going on. Bounty Hunters never hunter Jedi. THERE WHERE NONE. They hunted guys like Smugglers who owed money to bad guys. Smugglers smuggled shit for various bad guys in hopes of making money. They didnt hang around shooting womp rats and Bols. (by the way, THIS is the timeline of the game)
Rebels tried to defeat the empire. They where not grinding out mindless "to - do" missions. They attacked bases, they defended bases, they gathered data (the whole Bothan reference) The secured new secret bases, they freed captives, they secured despiretly needed supplies and material for the war.........on and on. They made an impact on the STORY. I think we can all agree that all we want is a decent game for SWG. All it needs is a CREATIVE team to put it together.
2 years of garbage, hire the damn Asheron's Call team if you can't make a decent quest for Pete's sake, I'm sure they are ready to move on. Junk the mission terminals. They are a poor addition to ANY game.
Lets show how clueless and useless you are Mr. I know Everything Fanboi. Of all of that the insult part was the only thing you stuck with. Didnt bother to answer the other arguement. So here you go sizzle chest. Lets watch you prove my point.
Name something you can do in any other game you cant do in SWG.
1) Ryzom Ring in SoR (not out yet but is coming).
2) Making full content with real tools in Second Life and There.
3) RvR and Sieges in DAoC and L2.
4) Player finding tools in CoH (The best ever by far).
5) Different ruleset servers in too many games to count.
6) Guild quests, guild controls, guild status in too many games to count.
There is a half dozen. Lets watch you go through and make up feeble excuses as to why those dont count to your challenge and hence prove my point that you hate being proven wrong.....
Have gun
Kai
And if you need further proof, let me clip something from the same post (that was made 2 posts ago)
Ah mindless insults. The last desperate refuge of a person who knows he has lost. Thanks for the arguement. Last comments follow then I am considering this discussion at an end between you and I.
Developers of SWG dont need to make up lies with fanbois like you. You do all the propoganda for them. You should get a medal.
Kai
Fact is I am now officially done with this arguement. He posted he would play MY little game but it was him who made the challenge. And then, just as I said he would, he argued every single point. Because he cant accept being proven wrong. So I have proven what I set out to prove about him. Now if he replies to this with any more arguing of points then he is only proving it more. Whether its 1 or 100, he offered a challenge and his challenge was countered. He didnt specify how many or how long. Just to name something in any game you cant do in SWG. I have shown him several. Whether he accepts this or not is up too him. But I know he wont. He has to get the last word in somehow so he will reply to argue it more or make some blanket statement about me.
Kai
Ciao
Erillion