Action is NOT D&D. D&D "feeling" is not about killing thousands of kobolds before you level up. It is not about acting fast all the time without thinking. It is not about casting 15 cure light wounds spells as a level 1. It is not DDO.
WotC are just showing us they are money whores and they can be saying anything, as long as the money is there.
Saddly for you Burrek, you are trying to make them sound right. D&D was never about REAL LIFE coordination and reflexes. Play Sonic Adventure if you want.
DDO is a nice game, but it is not, never was, never will be even loosely related to having the D&D spirit.
Eberrons fans are flaming DDO! I mean, come on, they can't even get the Eberrons fans happy! Go visit a few sites and read what those fans think about DDO using the Eberron setting!
There is more tomatoes in Ketchup than there is D&D in DDO. + 20 hps to wizards and barbarians alike, this is a laughing joke. If they would have capture the "initiative" feeling rather than make a twitch game, they never would have consider doing that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
you can call me fanboi if you like aswell, but I'm with Burrek.
I feel D&D is not a set of rules. D&D is a universe created by Gary Gygax and can be experience in any number ways not just PnP. Gygax himself even said in the first edition books that the rules were just that rules and if you need to break the rules to make the game what you want then by all means do it. its about making the game fun and unfortunately fun is subjective. Fun for one person may not be fun for another, such is life. Saying DDO is not D&D is almost like saying 3.5 rules are not D&D almost none of the rules are the same as the game at its beginnings. as conceived by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson along with whoever help in development.
Originally posted by Ian_Hawkmoon Are you crazy? Do you really think that DDo is the same as the PnP game? The first part of your post says it all... PnP DnD is not real time action. This is not, not will it ever be "REAL" DnD. Period. Sounds to me like your the crazy one. My post was meant to show that hoping that DDO is PnP with headphones is a missinterpretation of the marketing slogan since they explicitly say the combat and traps are done in real time. After thought... Not only is DDO real time, which is not DnD, but they, Turbine, did not put in all of the 'Real" DnD... Like all of the races... No Half Elves, no Half Orcs... They butchered the Warforged... As far as classes, no Druid or Monk on release... Yes, they say they will add Druids and Monks later... Probably in an expansion that everyone will have to pay for and which will be at least 6 months later or maybe even a year later... I could go on and on... If you can't have DnD without those then I pity you. It's one thing to be a DnD fanboi, but your way beyond that. Learn how to use your own imagination once in a while. DnD is not a set of rules. It's the atmosphere. White Wolf has it's own set of rules but the atmosphere in their games is very different. If they made DDO be a soloable WW2 game (based 100% upon DnD rules) then you'd have cause for complain for that is not in the spirit of DnD.
Give me a break... I can and have played with out those characters... But DDo is the only MMO out there that is saying that they are "Real DnD" Not having all of the components is not real DnD.
DnD is a set of rules. It is also atmosphere, but behind the atmosphere is a set of rule... Yes you can bend the rules if you are a DM. But there are still DnD rules.
Please tell me how White wolf has a different atmosphere that DnD? Are you sure it is not the players and not the rules that have a different atmosphere.
Oh, and by the way, my imagination is fine Thank You Very Much... But I see yours is way out there, judging from your posts...
* People are uphappy that there's any deviation from the rules of DnD * People are unhappy that it's real time and not done in the turn based ruleset * People are unhappy with the art style * People are unhappy with the setting (and I can actually agree on this, imho Eberron kind of sucks... cliche) * People are unhappy that it doesn't have every option that was in the DnD PnP * etc, etc, etc
What do you want, exactly? A text based client with voice chat built into it? That seems to be what I'm getting from all the complaints...
Arguing that DDO is "not DnD" because it's real time seems stupid to me. Neverwinter Nights isn't turn based. Baldur's Gate isn't turned based. Neither Icewind Dale nor it's sequel were turned based. In fact, there's only been two turn based DnD computer games since Darksun (ToEE and the abysmal Pool of Radiance sequel). Even the old gold box games by SSI took shortcuts and made changes to the rulesets. Even the original NWN on AOL made a lot of concessions to deal with it being an MMO.
Dunno what to tell you, man. Seems to me like no computer game based on DnD is "real" DnD.
Originally posted by Cutedge So basically what I'm getting is that: * People are uphappy that there's any deviation from the rules of DnD * People are unhappy that it's real time and not done in the turn based ruleset * People are unhappy with the art style * People are unhappy with the setting (and I can actually agree on this, imho Eberron kind of sucks... cliche) * People are unhappy that it doesn't have every option that was in the DnD PnP * etc, etc, etc What do you want, exactly? A text based client with voice chat built into it? That seems to be what I'm getting from all the complaints... Arguing that DDO is "not DnD" because it's real time seems stupid to me. Neverwinter Nights isn't turn based. Baldur's Gate isn't turned based. Neither Icewind Dale nor it's sequel were turned based. In fact, there's only been two turn based DnD computer games since Darksun (ToEE and the abysmal Pool of Radiance sequel). Even the old gold box games by SSI took shortcuts and made changes to the rulesets. Even the original NWN on AOL made a lot of concessions to deal with it being an MMO. Dunno what to tell you, man. Seems to me like no computer game based on DnD is "real" DnD.
Exactly... DDO will be succesful IMO. All I want is for them, Turbine, to be honest in their advertising. I know honesty and advertising don't fit in the here and now...
Exactly... DDO will be successful IMO. All I want is for them, Turbine, to be honest in their advertising. I know honesty and advertising don't fit in the here and now...
I'll make this more explicit since my previous post did not make sense to you:
Turbine's catch phrase is "Real Combat. Real Danger. Real DnD." If it was just "DDO = Real DnD" then you'd have a point. Since they do mention that the game is real time and has platforming elements (Real Combat, Real Danger) in my opinion it is far from false advertising.
I agree that it is a rather cheap catch phrase since most people won't be aware to what the "real danger, real combat" refers to, yet it is hardly false advertising.
Originally posted by Cutedge So basically what I'm getting is that: * People are uphappy that there's any deviation from the rules of DnD * People are unhappy that it's real time and not done in the turn based ruleset * People are unhappy with the art style * People are unhappy with the setting (and I can actually agree on this, imho Eberron kind of sucks... cliche) * People are unhappy that it doesn't have every option that was in the DnD PnP * etc, etc, etc What do you want, exactly? A text based client with voice chat built into it? That seems to be what I'm getting from all the complaints... Arguing that DDO is "not DnD" because it's real time seems stupid to me. Neverwinter Nights isn't turn based. Baldur's Gate isn't turned based. Neither Icewind Dale nor it's sequel were turned based. In fact, there's only been two turn based DnD computer games since Darksun (ToEE and the abysmal Pool of Radiance sequel). Even the old gold box games by SSI took shortcuts and made changes to the rulesets. Even the original NWN on AOL made a lot of concessions to deal with it being an MMO. Dunno what to tell you, man. Seems to me like no computer game based on DnD is "real" DnD.
Exactly... DDO will be succesful IMO. All I want is for them, Turbine, to be honest in their advertising. I know honesty and advertising don't fit in the here and now...
Honesty doesn't fit much of anything they do, or say. They will tell you what they think you want to hear to make sales. Just my opinion of them from experience.
Every patch it gets further and further from D&D. We (beta testers) have posted laundry lists of the most heinous bugs/rule deviations in hopes they get fixed, but there are only 6 more days of beta left, so Im not holding my breath.
The biggest thing that bothers me, monsters dont play by the same rules as the players. That to me is one of the core fundamentals of D&D. (yeah I know give specific examples....see below)
Dead monsters still attack and will kill you (more so at higher levels) Particularly bad offenders: beholders, gargoyles.
Monsters get unlimited spell points, dont have the same cooldown timers (aka none), dont have to make concentration checks, and dont always need line of sight.
Monsters dont seem to suffer the -4ac for equipping a bow, nor do they seem to suffer the -4 to hit from moving during combat that players do.
There are quite a few other items as well, but this is my list of top offending bugs. The spellcasters are what really chaps my hide since a change as simple as making them use the same cooldown timers and concentration checks would go a long long long way toward making the game feel "fair".
He he explained his postion then it would be a bais poll...
It is already a biased poll. Bent assumes from the onset that it is imperical fact that D&D and DDO are not the same. This is not a poll, but a clever disguised flame against the game.
Which imo is ridiculous. As others have said, with the ruleset, world and blessing of Wizards, this is as much D&D as any online will get.
My theory is that the inovations have thrown people off. They wanted a cookie cutter mmo not a D&D version of online play. Most who complain, complain because it has doesn't have the features of other mmo's, persistant world, non-instanced zones. However, my contention is that it isn't DDO people don't like, its D&D. What I mean, is that intrinsic in D&D is your small band of adventurers pitted against an entire dungeon, i.e. the basic concept of D&D = instanced zones. Would someone please please please expain how in the world you can pit your party against the whole dungeon with no interuptions from random strangers without instances? As the develpoers said, instances are a no-brainer if you are trying to make an online game like D&D.
I wish people would stop screaming for new innovative mmo's and then be upset when the game doesn't come out with a carbon copy the games they've been playing.
He he explained his postion then it would be a bais poll...
It is already a biased poll. Bent assumes from the onset that it is imperical fact that D&D and DDO are not the same. This is not a poll, but a clever disguised flame against the game. Which imo is ridiculous. As others have said, with the ruleset, world and blessing of Wizards, this is as much D&D as any online will get. My theory is that the inovations have thrown people off. They wanted a cookie cutter mmo not a D&D version of online play. Most who complain, complain because it has doesn't have the features of other mmo's, persistant world, non-instanced zones. However, my contention is that it isn't DDO people don't like, its D&D. What I mean, is that intrinsic in D&D is your small band of adventurers pitted against an entire dungeon, i.e. the basic concept of D&D = instanced zones. Would someone please please please expain how in the world you can pit your party against the whole dungeon with no interuptions from random strangers without instances? As the develpoers said, instances are a no-brainer if you are trying to make an online game like D&D. I wish people would stop screaming for new innovative mmo's and then be upset when the game doesn't come out with a carbon copy the games they've been playing.
Have you ever played the PnP version of DnD? From your post I am wondering... The PnP version was and is meant to get friends together for an evening to explore. Not necessarily in a dungeon. Go read about some of the modules on the WotC web page... One that sticks out is this "Half the fun is getting there and the PCs are in for a particularly nice treat." This is from one of the modules made for Eberron. "Grasp of the Emerald Claw" Do you consider getting to your quest area in DDO fun?
Exactly what innovations are you talking about?
And your statement "This is as much D&D as any online will get." means nothing. That is like saying chocolate milk is as clost to chocolate ice cream as you are going to get. It does nothing to state how close DDO is to PnP DnD.
You are right about PnP DnD being about a small band od adventurers pitted against a dungeon... But you are wrong about the all instancing being the same. If that were true, why create a whole world for the characters to live in? I agree that the quests should be instanced. But not the whole world, not the taverns, not the streets, not the different parts of the city.
I want a world to explore, I want a challenge to get to the area where the quest is at. I don't like the concept of running down the street and opening a door to get into the quest. That is not what the PnP game is about.
And a little more about the PnP DnD as opposed to DDO... DDO can never be like PnP DnD. It just cannot happen. The PnP DnD game was with firends that met once or twice a week to play. And, at least with the groups that I was in, it took several sessions to complete a quest. Not just a few minutes, to two hours? Or more? When we got tired, we could stop and pick up next time we got together. You cannot do this in DDO. It would be to hard to do it in DDO. We both know that. I could go on and on... What I am tired of is people who want to say this is like the PnP game. It's not. You cannot make a PnP game into an MMO game.
From what I have played of DDO, I feel it will survive. It is not a bad game. I have per-ordered it and will probably pay the $15 a month, for a while anyways. I just wanted more from DDO.
Have you ever played the PnP version of DnD? From your post I am wondering... The PnP version was and is meant to get friends together for an evening to explore. Not necessarily in a dungeon. Go read about some of the modules on the WotC web page... One that sticks out is this "Half the fun is getting there and the PCs are in for a particularly nice treat." This is from one of the modules made for Eberron. "Grasp of the Emerald Claw" Do you consider getting to your quest area in DDO fun?
Yes, I've played, granted not since the early 80's. When we played we universally called each module a 'dungeon', whether it literally was a 'dungeon' or not, sorry to be unclear.
I expect that as the game expands they will add modules to the game that do exactly what you are saying; involve a journey across open landscapes, etc. I believe they focused on dungeon-like modules for the games release. More bells and whistles and campaign types to be added later and hold interest...I think that is the marketing plan anyway, it could be argued whether it is a good plan or not.
From my time in D&D, and it could perhaps just be the modules we chose to explore, they were very much like DDO is. Of course, since it is 20 years since I did any serious pnp, so maybe they've changed the modules quite a bit.
Exactly what innovations are you talking about?
I suppose innovation may have not been the ideal word. Let me restate: People call for a 'new' mmo, but then it seems that the communities gripe if they doing anything 'new' to the mechanics of how it works; i.e. instancing. Although instancing isn't an 'innovation', its use in DDO is innovative, to eliminate tedious travel. I believe this was for several reasons, but one reason is because huge open multiplayer zones is not indicative of D&D. Again, imo. You may argue that modules that have 'the journey is half the fun' aspect may lend themselves to a D&D atmosphere, I contend that if it isn't your party pitted against the dangers (without random multiplayer interference) it would not feel like D&D, no matter if it was a dungeon, castle, outdoor zone, cave, whatever.
And your statement "This is as much D&D as any online will get." means nothing. That is like saying chocolate milk is as clost to chocolate ice cream as you are going to get. It does nothing to state how close DDO is to PnP DnD.
I contend that as long as Wizards say it is D&D it IS D&D. You can argue that they've lost their way, you can argue that they've lost touch with true D&D. As long as Wizards says this is a D&D product, it is a D&D product. Take it to court if you think I'm wrong.
You are right about PnP DnD being about a small band od adventurers pitted against a dungeon... But you are wrong about the all instancing being the same. If that were true, why create a whole world for the characters to live in? I agree that the quests should be instanced. But not the whole world, not the taverns, not the streets, not the different parts of the city.
I only understand the first sentence. If I implied anything else in the following paragraph, I apologize, cuz it doesn't sound like my post.
I want a world to explore, I want a challenge to get to the area where the quest is at. I don't like the concept of running down the street and opening a door to get into the quest. That is not what the PnP game is about.
Seems like the challenge to get to the 'area' should be part of the module, i.e. the instance imo. A multi-group adventure area doesn't sound like D&D at all to me. They don't have it yet, but I think they'll add it. So, with your thought I think I'd be flaming about that as being a deviation of the spirit of the pnp game.
And a little more about the PnP DnD as opposed to DDO... DDO can never be like PnP DnD. It just cannot happen. The PnP DnD game was with firends that met once or twice a week to play. And, at least with the groups that I was in, it took several sessions to complete a quest. Not just a few minutes, to two hours? Or more? When we got tired, we could stop and pick up next time we got together. You cannot do this in DDO. It would be to hard to do it in DDO. We both know that. I could go on and on... What I am tired of is people who want to say this is like the PnP game. It's not. You cannot make a PnP game into an MMO game.
I agree with the spirit of this, you can never duplicate the exact pnp feel to a comp game.
From what I have played of DDO, I feel it will survive. It is not a bad game. I have per-ordered it and will probably pay the $15 a month, for a while anyways. I just wanted more from DDO.
I think youll get it. Nice thing about monthly fees is that they are paid to keep the modules coming.
I suppose innovation may have not been the ideal word. Let me restate: People call for a 'new' mmo, but then it seems that the communities gripe if they doing anything 'new' to the mechanics of how it works; i.e. instancing. Although instancing isn't an 'innovation', its use in DDO is innovative, to eliminate tedious travel. I believe this was for several reasons, but one reason is because huge open multiplayer zones is not indicative of D&D. Again, imo. You may argue that modules that have 'the journey is half the fun' aspect may lend themselves to a D&D atmosphere, I contend that if it isn't your party pitted against the dangers (without random multiplayer interference) it would not feel like D&D, no matter if it was a dungeon, castle, outdoor zone, cave, whatever.
You do realize that we are talking about an MMO here? DDO is supposed to be an MMO game, therefore there should be lots of players interacting with each other.
And your statement "This is as much D&D as any online will get." means nothing. That is like saying chocolate milk is as clost to chocolate ice cream as you are going to get. It does nothing to state how close DDO is to PnP DnD.
I contend that as long as Wizards say it is D&D it IS D&D. You can argue that they've lost their way, you can argue that they've lost touch with true D&D. As long as Wizards says this is a D&D product, it is a D&D product. Take it to court if you think I'm wrong.
I am not argueing that it is not DnD... I AM arguing that it is not close to the PnP DnD experience. Just because WotC says it is a DnD product does not make it like the PnP version. They, Turbine, advertise it as Real DnD. To me Real DnD is the PnP DnD game. Would you call Neverwinter Nights, or Baldur's Gate, or any of the other DnD computer games Real DnD?
You are right about PnP DnD being about a small band od adventurers pitted against a dungeon... But you are wrong about the all instancing being the same. If that were true, why create a whole world for the characters to live in? I agree that the quests should be instanced. But not the whole world, not the taverns, not the streets, not the different parts of the city.
I only understand the first sentence. If I implied anything else in the following paragraph, I apologize, cuz it doesn't sound like my post.
No problem. I may have misunderstood your post in that regards.
I want a world to explore, I want a challenge to get to the area where the quest is at. I don't like the concept of running down the street and opening a door to get into the quest. That is not what the PnP game is about.
Seems like the challenge to get to the 'area' should be part of the module, i.e. the instance imo. A multi-group adventure area doesn't sound like D&D at all to me. They don't have it yet, but I think they'll add it. So, with your thought I think I'd be flaming about that as being a deviation of the spirit of the pnp game.
Let me try to clarify a little here... I think we are having a little confusion about what DnD is... You are right in one aspect. In your PnP DnD game you do not run into other groups. How could you, after all it is just your little group playing. But here we are talking about an MMO. Where there may be thousands on players online. In your PnP game did you ever go into a tavern and meet other players? No, of course not. But again, we are talking about an MMO here. You need to have a way to interact with other players to make it a real MMO. So you have taverns... Why not a whole world to explore and meet other players?
So I don't see where the problem would be in having an open world for all to explore and meet other players and still be in the spirit of DnD. If you are really opposed to that, then what you are really looking for is more like NWN where you can go online and meet with friends and do a module together.
And a little more about the PnP DnD as opposed to DDO... DDO can never be like PnP DnD. It just cannot happen. The PnP DnD game was with firends that met once or twice a week to play. And, at least with the groups that I was in, it took several sessions to complete a quest. Not just a few minutes, to two hours? Or more? When we got tired, we could stop and pick up next time we got together. You cannot do this in DDO. It would be to hard to do it in DDO. We both know that. I could go on and on... What I am tired of is people who want to say this is like the PnP game. It's not. You cannot make a PnP game into an MMO game.
I agree with the spirit of this, you can never duplicate the exact pnp feel to a comp game.
From what I have played of DDO, I feel it will survive. It is not a bad game. I have per-ordered it and will probably pay the $15 a month, for a while anyways. I just wanted more from DDO.
I think youll get it. Nice thing about monthly fees is that they are paid to keep the modules coming.
I just hope they do it right. I would hate to see them only do an update every three or four months. Turbine was always good at providing monthly updats in their other two games. And that is what I want to see here also.
Comments
Ian, you make sense and logic to me.
Burrek is a fanboi.
Heck, even Fadeus dislike DDO.
Action is NOT D&D. D&D "feeling" is not about killing thousands of kobolds before you level up. It is not about acting fast all the time without thinking. It is not about casting 15 cure light wounds spells as a level 1. It is not DDO.
WotC are just showing us they are money whores and they can be saying anything, as long as the money is there.
Saddly for you Burrek, you are trying to make them sound right. D&D was never about REAL LIFE coordination and reflexes. Play Sonic Adventure if you want.
DDO is a nice game, but it is not, never was, never will be even loosely related to having the D&D spirit.
Eberrons fans are flaming DDO! I mean, come on, they can't even get the Eberrons fans happy! Go visit a few sites and read what those fans think about DDO using the Eberron setting!
There is more tomatoes in Ketchup than there is D&D in DDO. + 20 hps to wizards and barbarians alike, this is a laughing joke. If they would have capture the "initiative" feeling rather than make a twitch game, they never would have consider doing that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
you can call me fanboi if you like aswell, but I'm with Burrek.
I feel D&D is not a set of rules. D&D is a universe created by Gary Gygax and can be experience in any number ways not just PnP. Gygax himself even said in the first edition books that the rules were just that rules and if you need to break the rules to make the game what you want then by all means do it. its about making the game fun and unfortunately fun is subjective. Fun for one person may not be fun for another, such is life. Saying DDO is not D&D is almost like saying 3.5 rules are not D&D almost none of the rules are the same as the game at its beginnings. as conceived by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson along with whoever help in development.
Give me a break... I can and have played with out those characters... But DDo is the only MMO out there that is saying that they are "Real DnD" Not having all of the components is not real DnD.
DnD is a set of rules. It is also atmosphere, but behind the atmosphere is a set of rule... Yes you can bend the rules if you are a DM. But there are still DnD rules.
Please tell me how White wolf has a different atmosphere that DnD? Are you sure it is not the players and not the rules that have a different atmosphere.
Oh, and by the way, my imagination is fine Thank You Very Much... But I see yours is way out there, judging from your posts...
So basically what I'm getting is that:
* People are uphappy that there's any deviation from the rules of DnD
* People are unhappy that it's real time and not done in the turn based ruleset
* People are unhappy with the art style
* People are unhappy with the setting (and I can actually agree on this, imho Eberron kind of sucks... cliche)
* People are unhappy that it doesn't have every option that was in the DnD PnP
* etc, etc, etc
What do you want, exactly? A text based client with voice chat built into it? That seems to be what I'm getting from all the complaints...
Arguing that DDO is "not DnD" because it's real time seems stupid to me. Neverwinter Nights isn't turn based. Baldur's Gate isn't turned based. Neither Icewind Dale nor it's sequel were turned based. In fact, there's only been two turn based DnD computer games since Darksun (ToEE and the abysmal Pool of Radiance sequel). Even the old gold box games by SSI took shortcuts and made changes to the rulesets. Even the original NWN on AOL made a lot of concessions to deal with it being an MMO.
Dunno what to tell you, man. Seems to me like no computer game based on DnD is "real" DnD.
I'll make this more explicit since my previous post did not make sense to you:
Turbine's catch phrase is "Real Combat. Real Danger. Real DnD." If it was just "DDO = Real DnD" then you'd have a point. Since they do mention that the game is real time and has platforming elements (Real Combat, Real Danger) in my opinion it is far from false advertising.
I agree that it is a rather cheap catch phrase since most people won't be aware to what the "real danger, real combat" refers to, yet it is hardly false advertising.
Peace.
Honesty doesn't fit much of anything they do, or say. They will tell you what they think you want to hear to make sales. Just my opinion of them from experience.
Every patch it gets further and further from D&D. We (beta testers) have posted laundry lists of the most heinous bugs/rule deviations in hopes they get fixed, but there are only 6 more days of beta left, so Im not holding my breath.
The biggest thing that bothers me, monsters dont play by the same rules as the players. That to me is one of the core fundamentals of D&D. (yeah I know give specific examples....see below)
Dead monsters still attack and will kill you (more so at higher levels) Particularly bad offenders: beholders, gargoyles.
Monsters get unlimited spell points, dont have the same cooldown timers (aka none), dont have to make concentration checks, and dont always need line of sight.
Monsters dont seem to suffer the -4ac for equipping a bow, nor do they seem to suffer the -4 to hit from moving during combat that players do.
There are quite a few other items as well, but this is my list of top offending bugs. The spellcasters are what really chaps my hide since a change as simple as making them use the same cooldown timers and concentration checks would go a long long long way toward making the game feel "fair".
Have you ever played the PnP version of DnD? From your post I am wondering... The PnP version was and is meant to get friends together for an evening to explore. Not necessarily in a dungeon. Go read about some of the modules on the WotC web page... One that sticks out is this "Half the fun is getting there and the PCs are in for a particularly nice treat." This is from one of the modules made for Eberron. "Grasp of the Emerald Claw" Do you consider getting to your quest area in DDO fun?
Exactly what innovations are you talking about?
And your statement "This is as much D&D as any online will get." means nothing. That is like saying chocolate milk is as clost to chocolate ice cream as you are going to get. It does nothing to state how close DDO is to PnP DnD.
You are right about PnP DnD being about a small band od adventurers pitted against a dungeon... But you are wrong about the all instancing being the same. If that were true, why create a whole world for the characters to live in? I agree that the quests should be instanced. But not the whole world, not the taverns, not the streets, not the different parts of the city.
I want a world to explore, I want a challenge to get to the area where the quest is at. I don't like the concept of running down the street and opening a door to get into the quest. That is not what the PnP game is about.
And a little more about the PnP DnD as opposed to DDO... DDO can never be like PnP DnD. It just cannot happen. The PnP DnD game was with firends that met once or twice a week to play. And, at least with the groups that I was in, it took several sessions to complete a quest. Not just a few minutes, to two hours? Or more? When we got tired, we could stop and pick up next time we got together. You cannot do this in DDO. It would be to hard to do it in DDO. We both know that. I could go on and on... What I am tired of is people who want to say this is like the PnP game. It's not. You cannot make a PnP game into an MMO game.
From what I have played of DDO, I feel it will survive. It is not a bad game. I have per-ordered it and will probably pay the $15 a month, for a while anyways. I just wanted more from DDO.