Originally posted by Coldmeat I'm also looking forward to Warhammer Online. Because it's Warhammer. I am a bit disappointed that I won't be able to play as a Skaven initially, though.
I just noticed Warhammer Online at the bottom of the Games in Development list. Yeah that would be freaking sweet. I'm a big Warhammer fan.
EDIT: apologies for double post.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by checkthis500 So then what is going to be the next one?
Im not a fortune teller . Im saying just that because mmo's are a dime a dozen now. A few companies are trying to pull off something different to appeal to a different crowd than the ones sucked in to what most people are calling Eq clones. They may or may not be succesfull at thyre attempt but that doesnt mean its over for the EQ clones either....dont think it ever will be.
My point was that it was over for the "successful" EQ clones. I think everyone is going to start looking elsewhere, because it's been done to death. So if that makes me full of sh8t to have an opinion like that, then I guess I'm full of sh8t.
There will always be EQ clones. But I think in the upcoming 2-3 years, these are going to be overshadowed by the newer, more immersive MMO's.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by checkthis500 My point was that it was over for the "successful" EQ clones. I think everyone is going to start looking elsewhere, because it's been done to death. So if that makes me full of sh8t to have an opinion like that, then I guess I'm full of sh8t. There will always be EQ clones. But I think in the upcoming 2-3 years, these are going to be overshadowed by the newer, more immersive MMO's.
Yeah thats why im saying your full of sh*t ,lol. You are ready to write off the eq clone genre and wow as being the last succesful one.....and one of these other games hasnt even came out yet.
Maybe they do , maybe they dont....i just think its a strong statement with no power to support it just yet.
You're saying that if you're a company creating a new game that you're going to discount the success of World of Warcraft, and decide to make a game like Eve? I haven't seen the balance sheets for either project, but I'll take a guess and say that Blizzard is definitely out pacing CCP. You can argue which game is better, but as an entrepreneur or company wanting to create a new product, Blizzard's success with World of Warcraft is going to sway my decisions.
I think these games will also be successful. World of Warcraft continues to attract new and old players. Not only due to the game mechanics, but because the players like the genre and also because of game's casual pace. I can see other games that offer tweaks or innovations to World of Warcraft's systems, or a varied story line or lore would attract a decent player base.
As an example, look at the number of clones in the TV Market. Once 'Who wants to be a Millionaire' became a hit, every network had to have it's own game show. Same thing with reality shows, CSI, and the varied cop shows.
If someone can show how successful a product can be, guaranteed others will make a copy.
I know that many will argue that World of Warcraft's success is based on Blizzard's past successes, but it's been a year and I'd say the game is standing on it's own legs.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by forest-nl 4 million+ players you think last one lol dont think so:P WoW 2 in development already better grafics more depth bigger world more charcter custamisation. World of warcraft 2 comming summer 2007 so its not the end.
I dont think WoW 2 will be as successful as WoW, but again it's just my opinion. You can go ahead and say I'm full of sh*t too, but it reminds me of the RPG genre for consoles. That has been in steady decline since FFX. Yes they're still around, but none will be as great as FF7.
Just like there will always be fantasy MMOs, and I'm not saying that WoW is going to be the last. That would be dumb. I'm just saying I don't think another that is the same style of game will be as popular or successful.
the 4mil + players is exactly why I say this. I don't think another game will come out for a long time that will have 4mil + players. And I definitely dont think it will be an EQ clone when it does come out.
When a game comes out that is the same style as WoW, EQ, etc. I'll necro this thread back to admit that I was dead wrong. But if it's one of the new styles that people are trying to come up with like DnL or AoC, then I'll leave this thread dead.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by forest-nl 4 million+ players you think last one lol dont think so:P WoW 2 in development already better grafics more depth bigger world more charcter custamisation. World of warcraft 2 comming summer 2007 so its not the end.
I dont think WoW 2 will be as successful as WoW, but again it's just my opinion. You can go ahead and say I'm full of sh*t too, but it reminds me of the RPG genre for consoles. That has been in steady decline since FFX. Yes they're still around, but none will be as great as FF7.
Just like there will always be fantasy MMOs, and I'm not saying that WoW is going to be the last. That would be dumb. I'm just saying I don't think another that is the same style of game will be as popular or successful.
the 4mil + players is exactly why I say this. I don't think another game will come out for a long time that will have 4mil + players. And I definitely dont think it will be an EQ clone when it does come out.
When a game comes out that is the same style as WoW, EQ, etc. I'll necro this thread back to admit that I was dead wrong. But if it's one of the new styles that people are trying to come up with like DnL or AoC, then I'll leave this thread dead.
Using FFX and FF7 as an example doesnt fit, 1 is a mmorpg the other isnt. I would however use an example of lineage and lineage 2.....lineage 2 went over lineage and is the only game even close to WOW in subscriptions ever.
If they are and do a WOW 2, expect it to rival the same numbers they have for the current game. Also get ready to admit your wrong....its like your trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat here .
UMMM FFXI is the mmo, FFX is the console game.....
And second, thats like everyone that said that EQ2, would rival the subs that EQ1 had at it's peak. And Lineage 2 is possibly the worst game I've ever played when it comes to MMO's. horrible economy, horrible leveling, horrible character individuality. When I played I ran into at least 20 different people that looked just like me. We even lined up and took a picture.
I'm not pulling anything out of anywhere, I'm making comments on what I think is going to happen. And if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I dont really care about that. I just created this thread for discussion on what people thought.
Also people are starting to have a bad taste for Blizzard in their mouths after WoW. Me personally. I loved Blizzard until WoW.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by checkthis500 I was playing WoW last night and I realized that it's the last of its kind. It is the last successful pick your class, level up, do some pvp, reroll, depend on the developers for content type of game. All of the new games coming out DnL, AoC, SoR(already out), and EVE(already out) are geared towareds the players making the content and the developers just making the environment they run around in. It's interesting to me that MMO's are changing into more than just leveling and being uber, but to interacting successfully with the other players in the game. To me it seems like in the games that focus on the players to give the content, the players actually feel like they're a part of the game and they're truly dynamic and not just doing what the NPC's tell them to do. (By the way, I'm not bashing WoW. I think WoW is a great game for the type of game it is. And it's the last great one of it's kind.) It started with games like UO and EQ, and this era is ending with games like WoW and EQ2.
You make 2 assertions in this post which are wrong. I've glanced through the other posts and I notice that you REDEFINE your argument in response to those flaws being picked apart.
1. You make a distinction between the WoW-type game, "pick your class, level up" and sim worlds where players live, claiming that the former is dying out in favor of the latter.
2. You state that WoW is the last successful game of it's type, when you secretly defined that success as being 4 million subs.
In other words, you think that if a game ONLY gets 500,000 subs, like EQ2, it is NOT a success. That was your defense when people responded with evidence of new games that ARE WoW-type, even if games like Vanguard will try to STRETCH the genre.
You also seem to think that people want game worlds like DnL where they can "live", build their own communities, make their own entertainment. So far that has NOT been the case. If your assertion were true Horizons would have been a far bigger hit.
The WoW-type game is by far the most successful of the two. Will your second game type now supercede the first? I doubt it. If you define success as 4 million subs, then definately not. There is market for both. One day a game will have BOTH in the same world, and please everybody.
To summerise; If you define success as 4 million subs, neither of the 2 game types will be a success in the future, except perhaps a WoW2. If you are more realistic and accept 500k subs then many future games will be a success, most of them WoW-type. Will ANY game sell as well as WoW? Who knows. However WoW will not be the last GREAT game of it's type. Greatness is not measured purely by sales, but by longevity and how it redefines the genre. Will games of the second type, virtual worlds, be a bigger success in the future and signal the end of the EQ-WoW era? No, ofcourse not.
Originally posted by checkthis500 UMMM FFXI is the mmo, FFX is the console game..... And second, thats like everyone that said that EQ2, would rival the subs that EQ1 had at it's peak. And Lineage 2 is possibly the worst game I've ever played when it comes to MMO's. horrible economy, horrible leveling, horrible character individuality. When I played I ran into at least 20 different people that looked just like me. We even lined up and took a picture. I'm not pulling anything out of anywhere, I'm making comments on what I think is going to happen. And if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I dont really care about that. I just created this thread for discussion on what people thought. Also people are starting to have a bad taste for Blizzard in their mouths after WoW. Me personally. I loved Blizzard until WoW.
I stand corrected on FFX....even though I actually played it briefly and didnt catch my own mistake ,lol. However comparing 11 console games to a 1 part or maybe 2 part mmorpg is really apples and oranges.
I agree totally with you on every point about Lineage 2 and maybe even more. The example however does fit what may happen if wow did do a wow2. Lineage at its peak was teh only mmoorpg even close to rivaling the numbers put up by WOW currently, No one has came close. Lineage 2 also put out huge numbers rivaling the numbers put out by WOW but still coming up way short. EQ on the other hand only had 550k subs at its peak, EQ2 hit 300k back a few months ago, maybe they went up, maybe down im not sure. Those are all active sub numbers as of a couple to 3 months ago. So concluding by that observation alone, even if they havent reached the numbers of the first game they released....both lineage and the EQ line had succesful sequels. Why would WOW with over 4 million active subs not be able to have a succesful sequel if they so choose?
Also you say many have a bad taste in theyre mouth after WOW....true. Thats true with any game out there. With over 4 million active and who knows how many inactive there are bound to be a decent number of people who did not like the game.
In conclusion and my last post on the matter. I still think your rushing judgment with no other reason thatn to guess whats goign to happen. Why would people just stop playing this type off mmorpg? Especially after a game using this type hit the biggest peak ever for any mmorpg ever? So basically after hitting this peak all of a sudden your saying its over? Sure its your opinion.....but its highly doubtful at best it will ever come to pass.
I see what you're saying Bama. The reason I compared console to MMO, was to compare trends. If you look at genres, they get so beat into the ground that people get tired of them and look elsewhere for satisfaction.
I wasn't exactly passing judgement as much as throwing my observations and thoughts and ideas out there to, hopefully, have them contested for some good discussion.
I'll have to admit I'm wrong and agree with you that if there was a WoW 2 it would probably top WoW for subs, which will make me cry, but you're probably right that the sequel will be better.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Comments
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
I just noticed Warhammer Online at the bottom of the Games in Development list. Yeah that would be freaking sweet. I'm a big Warhammer fan.
EDIT: apologies for double post.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
My point was that it was over for the "successful" EQ clones. I think everyone is going to start looking elsewhere, because it's been done to death. So if that makes me full of sh8t to have an opinion like that, then I guess I'm full of sh8t.
There will always be EQ clones. But I think in the upcoming 2-3 years, these are going to be overshadowed by the newer, more immersive MMO's.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
You're saying that if you're a company creating a new game that you're going to discount the success of World of Warcraft, and decide to make a game like Eve? I haven't seen the balance sheets for either project, but I'll take a guess and say that Blizzard is definitely out pacing CCP. You can argue which game is better, but as an entrepreneur or company wanting to create a new product, Blizzard's success with World of Warcraft is going to sway my decisions.
I think these games will also be successful. World of Warcraft continues to attract new and old players. Not only due to the game mechanics, but because the players like the genre and also because of game's casual pace. I can see other games that offer tweaks or innovations to World of Warcraft's systems, or a varied story line or lore would attract a decent player base.
As an example, look at the number of clones in the TV Market. Once 'Who wants to be a Millionaire' became a hit, every network had to have it's own game show. Same thing with reality shows, CSI, and the varied cop shows.
If someone can show how successful a product can be, guaranteed others will make a copy.
I know that many will argue that World of Warcraft's success is based on Blizzard's past successes, but it's been a year and I'd say the game is standing on it's own legs.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
4 million+ players you think last one lol dont think so:P
WoW 2 in development already better grafics more depth bigger world more charcter custamisation.
World of warcraft 2 comming summer 2007 so its not the end.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
u kinda lost me but oks
I dont think WoW 2 will be as successful as WoW, but again it's just my opinion. You can go ahead and say I'm full of sh*t too, but it reminds me of the RPG genre for consoles. That has been in steady decline since FFX. Yes they're still around, but none will be as great as FF7.
Just like there will always be fantasy MMOs, and I'm not saying that WoW is going to be the last. That would be dumb. I'm just saying I don't think another that is the same style of game will be as popular or successful.
the 4mil + players is exactly why I say this. I don't think another game will come out for a long time that will have 4mil + players. And I definitely dont think it will be an EQ clone when it does come out.
When a game comes out that is the same style as WoW, EQ, etc. I'll necro this thread back to admit that I was dead wrong. But if it's one of the new styles that people are trying to come up with like DnL or AoC, then I'll leave this thread dead.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
I dont think WoW 2 will be as successful as WoW, but again it's just my opinion. You can go ahead and say I'm full of sh*t too, but it reminds me of the RPG genre for consoles. That has been in steady decline since FFX. Yes they're still around, but none will be as great as FF7.
Just like there will always be fantasy MMOs, and I'm not saying that WoW is going to be the last. That would be dumb. I'm just saying I don't think another that is the same style of game will be as popular or successful.
the 4mil + players is exactly why I say this. I don't think another game will come out for a long time that will have 4mil + players. And I definitely dont think it will be an EQ clone when it does come out.
When a game comes out that is the same style as WoW, EQ, etc. I'll necro this thread back to admit that I was dead wrong. But if it's one of the new styles that people are trying to come up with like DnL or AoC, then I'll leave this thread dead.
Using FFX and FF7 as an example doesnt fit, 1 is a mmorpg the other isnt. I would however use an example of lineage and lineage 2.....lineage 2 went over lineage and is the only game even close to WOW in subscriptions ever.
If they are and do a WOW 2, expect it to rival the same numbers they have for the current game. Also get ready to admit your wrong....its like your trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat here
.
UMMM FFXI is the mmo, FFX is the console game.....
And second, thats like everyone that said that EQ2, would rival the subs that EQ1 had at it's peak. And Lineage 2 is possibly the worst game I've ever played when it comes to MMO's. horrible economy, horrible leveling, horrible character individuality. When I played I ran into at least 20 different people that looked just like me. We even lined up and took a picture.
I'm not pulling anything out of anywhere, I'm making comments on what I think is going to happen. And if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I dont really care about that. I just created this thread for discussion on what people thought.
Also people are starting to have a bad taste for Blizzard in their mouths after WoW. Me personally. I loved Blizzard until WoW.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
You make 2 assertions in this post which are wrong. I've glanced through the other posts and I notice that you REDEFINE your argument in response to those flaws being picked apart.
1. You make a distinction between the WoW-type game, "pick your class, level up" and sim worlds where players live, claiming that the former is dying out in favor of the latter.
2. You state that WoW is the last successful game of it's type, when you secretly defined that success as being 4 million subs.
In other words, you think that if a game ONLY gets 500,000 subs, like EQ2, it is NOT a success. That was your defense when people responded with evidence of new games that ARE WoW-type, even if games like Vanguard will try to STRETCH the genre.
You also seem to think that people want game worlds like DnL where they can "live", build their own communities, make their own entertainment. So far that has NOT been the case. If your assertion were true Horizons would have been a far bigger hit.
The WoW-type game is by far the most successful of the two. Will your second game type now supercede the first? I doubt it. If you define success as 4 million subs, then definately not. There is market for both. One day a game will have BOTH in the same world, and please everybody.
To summerise; If you define success as 4 million subs, neither of the 2 game types will be a success in the future, except perhaps a WoW2. If you are more realistic and accept 500k subs then many future games will be a success, most of them WoW-type. Will ANY game sell as well as WoW? Who knows. However WoW will not be the last GREAT game of it's type. Greatness is not measured purely by sales, but by longevity and how it redefines the genre. Will games of the second type, virtual worlds, be a bigger success in the future and signal the end of the EQ-WoW era? No, ofcourse not.
I definitely agree with you, that in defending myself I put too much emphasis on subs. You're entirely correct that subs don't make the game.
My intentions weren't to directly compare WoW to other games, but more the genres and using WoW as an example.
I just think that the MMO as we know it has run it's course and it's going to look a lot different in the future.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
If you mean having an over hyped grindathon as the last of its kind then I hope you are right. Do you think this is healthy for the mmoprg genre?
I see what you're saying Bama. The reason I compared console to MMO, was to compare trends. If you look at genres, they get so beat into the ground that people get tired of them and look elsewhere for satisfaction.
I wasn't exactly passing judgement as much as throwing my observations and thoughts and ideas out there to, hopefully, have them contested for some good discussion.
I'll have to admit I'm wrong and agree with you that if there was a WoW 2 it would probably top WoW for subs, which will make me cry, but you're probably right that the sequel will be better.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.