Skill Based Vs Level Based

Ambadias

I'm pretty sure it's been discussed before, but was just curious to see how other people think bout it. Personally I like skill based games rather than level based. Such as UO to EQ. To me I like the ability to have a variety of abilities that don't necessarily have to be linked to each other if I don't want. What about you guys?

Laserwolf

Of Course Skill Based is better. The only big game out there besides UO to use Skill-Based was SWG and now they have gone to Level Based because they think THAT is the reason no one wants to play their game.

 

Jenuviel

I prefer skill-based games (as opposed to class-based, not so much level-based) as well, though there's a reason there aren't a lot of them. They're much harder to balance. Development teams typically have trouble just getting 8-10 classes balanced with one another; now imagine the same group of people trying to balance a nearly infinite number of possible skill combinations.

It's mistaken that UO and SWG were the only skill-based games, however. Asheron's Call was and is skill-based, too. Saga of Ryzom is skill-based. The Matrix Online was at least partially skill-based. I'm sure there are others that I haven't played, as well. They're out there, they're just far less common than the bread 'n butter games of the industry. Granted, most of these used levels in conjunction with skills, but even SWG did that to a degree; instead of calling them "levels," they were called skill boxes, but skills still required experience points to raise until the next "level" was reached.

skelz

The best games have all been skill based.

 

SWG, UO, EVE online, Asherons Call and thats all I can think of at the moment.  IM sure there are more

Esorlleh

I've played good games done with both systems.

But the big issue for me is unique class roles, which is what I feel is missing in some of these fluid-skill-based games like SoR.

 

Serpentar

I prefer skilled base though dont have nothing against level based.  Though this is only based on all the single and multiplayer games I have played. To date all the MMORPGs I have played have been level based. Morrowind taught me how cool skill based could be. 

 

Saishyuro

True skill based MMORPGs are hard to find. Usually level gaps or player equipment in PvP create too big of an inbalance for player skill to actually matter. If I'm in the mood for a challenging game against other players, I'll dig up my old RTS/FPS games.

kishe

Skill based>Level based > Class based

I love mmorpgs where i deside what i want to do...

Gameloading

I have to go with level based.

 

i'd much rather see:
"Congratulations, your now lvl 87"

then : "Congratulations, your swordmanship raised by 1"

IcoGames

It depends. Look at a project like SWG. The number of skill combination made the game interesting and fun, but it turned out to be too an ambitous project for SOE/LA. Eve's skill based system is unique in that it's based on time, but I'm not sure if I prefer that system either. I'd rather a system where skills are added based on the use of a particular item or craft.

Speaking of craft skill sets. I thought SWG's initial implementation where crafters gained xp based on the use of their items was a great concept.

I'd say if the dev team is up to the task, then I'd go with a skill based system over a level based one. Otherwise, I'll make my decision based on the quality of the game mechanics and other aspects.

Dewm

I deffinitly prefer skill level based.

 

At least I havn't played a good skill based MMO yet.

osc8r

Loved Asheron's Call skill based system.

Run faster? Pump run skill.

Jump over walls, or onto buildings? Jump skill.

War magic user wielding a polearm? Go for it!

Deathofsage

Originally posted by osc8r

Loved Asheron's Call skill based system.

Run faster? Pump run skill.

Jump over walls, or onto buildings? Jump skill.

War magic user wielding a polearm? Go for it!

I haven't played a GTA game in a few years (several) but that sounds like GTA: San Andreas. I liked that game and that's one of the points I liked.

OP, people interpret skill games to mean different things, as you may see in the replies. Explain what you mean, please?

Cavadus

I will never play another MMO which features either levels or classes.

Wolfenpride

I like Star Trek Online's way of doing it. I guess it's kind of a level-skill based hybrid, but personally i've found it more enjoyable than a pure skill based system like Ryzom.

 

Hm..I think Istaria's is pretty good to. Another hybrid of the two somewhat.

jusomdude

I think I like level based more, not class based though. Something just feels better about "leveling up" than gaining 0.1 skill.

 

I'd like to see a game where you level up and can select from a ginormous pool of abilities to learn each level.

Nizur

I prefer skill-based games. Ryzom and Darkfall are two of my favorite MMOs and both are skill-based. EVE is also good, and I'm always interested in it, I just can't seem to stick with it.

I have nothing against class-based games though. I enjoyed WoW and LotRO a lot.

Zook81

I like skill based more. Ive become very bored of levels and classes, which is why I'm having such a hard time getting excited over TOR or GW2

slim26

Skill based makes me feel more powerful, more freedom and more enjoyment combind with statbased, I will like to see more sb and stat based mmorpgs. Matrix online was statbased plus talent based and that was cool, I like talent based games as well.

KenFisher

I think it depends on the game.

 

Trinity games with gear grind, classes and levels work well since the classes fit the trinity and the levels determine stats and gear availability.  I think this is more new player friendly because it is harder to mess up a build.

 

Skills and free-form builds work well for sandboxy games that emphasize freedom and place less importance on trinity or gear grind.  I see experienced players prefering this since they have the knowledge to work out a good build for their own playstyle and needs.

 

Personally I like freedom and even in trinity style games I like playing classes that can go anywhere do anything.  I just have to carry three sets of gear :-)

Fadedbomb

Matrix online was done by a shoddy dev team, but with the RIGHT idea in mind. The problem was their implementation, and SOE's lack of interest to actually continue development....which is why the game stagnated & died.

 

But I digress.........Skill Based will ALWAYS be infinitely better than Level based except for minor exceptions such as DAOC. =3

Squal'Zell

Originally posted by Gameloading

I have to go with level based.

 

i'd much rather see:

"Congratulations, your now lvl 87"

then : "Congratulations, your swordmanship raised by 1"

i much rather see :

"congratulations, you are now master swordsman"

than: "you have killed dragon you gain 128 / 5,000,000 xp"

 

if you want to compare something make sure you compare the right things mate.

BlahTeeb

Anyone who believes levels should win skill simply can't play well. They can play long though... very long. It's why top e-sports and even minor tournaments MAINLY revolve around games that have no level.

Starcraft 2, Battlefield, and Call of Duty all have no actual levels. Though these games are not everyone's cup of tea, there's no doubt that watching/playing a skill based competition is more enjoyable than a level based one.

But when competitions are thrown away and one wants to relax, that's when levels come into play. If I don't feel like playing at my top level, I can rely on my levels to keep me alive. As so with MMO's, levels are only for insurance, not much else.

romanator0

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

Originally posted by Gameloading

I have to go with level based.

 

i'd much rather see:

"Congratulations, your now lvl 87"

then : "Congratulations, your swordmanship raised by 1"

i much rather see :

"congratulations, you are now master swordsman"

than: "you have killed dragon you gain 128 / 5,000,000 xp"

 

if you want to compare something make sure you compare the right things mate.

I would like to see:

"Congratulations, your now level 87" and "Congratulations, you are now master swordsman".

But that doesn't happen. What does happen is:

"Congratulations, you gain 128 / 5,000,000 xp" and "Congratulations, your swordsmanship raised by 1".

If you want to compare something then make sure you compare the right things mate. You are still leveling up either way, whether its your character or a single skill.

Squal'Zell

the thing about skill vs level is the power to make your character play YOUR STYLE

example. you like to play a guy with a sword and a shield

in level based game you are restricted to being a swordsman class, warrior/paladin/knight etc most of the time, a tank. but you dont really feel like being a tank you dont like playing a tank. you like to play critical dmg dealing! but thats the rogue class set thief/assasin/rogue etc, a DPS. but you have to use knives daggers and small pointy things... 

in a skill based system you could have skills in swordmanship, shield AND criticals (of course you will suffer in tanking ability since you don't have room in armor proficiency, but on the other hand you are doing MUCH more damage with enhanced criticals, exacly your style of play. 

you make your own classes, terrain negociations (like a druid class) armor profeciency(tank class) and Swordsmanship (weapon profeciency) (and you have some left over skills to put in foraging and healing, you just made your own class "you can call it "wildernes warden" 

now put 30-35 skill trees and you got so many possibilities that no 2 people will be alike, you may have dedicated tanks but with their left over skill points they have dabbled in wilderness survival and can make basic low lvl camps in the wilderness to /rest /heal the group (that happens not to have a dedicated Ranger that can build uber camps) 1 is better than 0 right?

the only problem with that system is that obviously, if you use mathematics you could figure out the combination of skills and trats that will deal out the most damage, the set of skill distribution will be placed on the internet and every one and their grandmothers will have "the you better have Max DMG skill set to join this group or we don't want you"

i remember in SWG it was the master TerasKasi / Master fencer combo, (before their removed cross skill stat stacking) you had the epic dodging of a fencer and the epic DPS from TKM wich made it obsolete to fight you one on one (unless you are also a TKM) in which case its who has the better quality gloves... then again if you cant hit and cant get hit... its whoever gets the bad luck of getting the knocked down critical roll.

so there are problems in both worlds, the fact that level based is the most popular is because world of warcraft has it, and if WoW has it then every investor in videogame design will want to only invest in games similar to WoW, (and we all know how that turns out)

Drekker17

I prefer level-based Class MMO's, however, recently they feel extremely boring. I prefer classes in more action oriented games and skills in more laid-back creating type games.  Leveling and Skilling up are both horrible in MMO's though, in other games I couldn't care less what type of system it was because it was always fun. MMO's have way too much grind, fun the first couple times but annoying after that. 

I personally would consider it a bigger achievement if a developer created a game with little progresssion grind and still held on to playerbases for a long time, than dynamic events and all that stuff.

I would like to see a progression grind that combined levels, classes and skills. I would also like to see some more realistic progression...in reality learning your first piano song is a lot harder than learning your second and so on. Obviously this can't be how the main progression goes, as it would discourage a lot people from playing, but having some things have that type of progression would be nice.