Broaching the social aspects again..

drycat

I want to see how many people want to see an Entertainer type class/archetype in Fallen Earth. As of yet, I don't know what type of classes, if any there are going to be in Fallen Earth, but it would be interesting to see some kind of entertainer build or skills available. Something along the lines of Star Wars, where there were dancers and musicians. I agree with the original poster on social classes, they are a definite bonus to RP.

Like ad said in his post, most MMPORG's overlook the necessity for that social backbone. I love to kill stuff as much as the next guy, but being able to do something else besides kill and craft, only adds to the immersion factor.

It would have to be approached carefully, but I don't think entertainers would be out of the question. Since I would imagine there would have to be bars/taverns/etc.. of some sorts in settlements/cities, where players and npcs alike might congregate and swap stories, boast, or just central locations for forming expeditions and such. It could also fuel plots and or storyline with rumors and gossip in game, rather than utilizing forums or server-wide messages. This could only help the immersion factor. 

Any comments, including the original author that brought up this fine point?(Should have inserted a quote from the orignal poster. sorry about that).

Raxar

I'm all for entertainers if they really play a crucial role. The other character types I'd like to see are mechanical repair and transporting goods for profit. Whether it be traversing dangerous territory to deliver to remote areas or basic courier services, seems only right if there are going to be vehicles.

adrir

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Originally posted by drycat
I want to see how many people want to see an Entertainer type class/archetype in Fallen Earth. As of yet, I don't know what type of classes, if any there are going to be in Fallen Earth, but it would be interesting to see some kind of entertainer build or skills available.

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The game is class-less although I do like the idea of having some 'social' abilities introduced into the game. The aspects of social gaming have proven to become quite popular through innovations such as dancers in SWG although it does create a problem with macroing.

An interesting concept would be the utilisation of a set of mutant abilities working in parallel with these entertainment abilities. This could create a series of interesting effects although I would avoid introducing "buffs" or "enhancers".

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Originally posted by drycat
Like ad said in his post, most MMPORG's overlook the necessity for that social backbone. I love to kill stuff as much as the next guy, but being able to do something else besides kill and craft.

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I totally agree, having something to do that doesn't involve combat can be quite entertaining. It also expands the game's diversity, appealing to other markets and player groups, who perhaps don't enjoy hack'n'slash, cookie-cutter or other combat-orientated titles.

Being a bar-keep or an entertainer in a post-apocalyptic environment opens up a vault of roleplaying possibilities and would hopefully place a heavy emphasis on immersion and realism outside fighting!

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Originally posted by drycat
It would have to be approached carefully, but I don't think entertainers would be out of the question. Since I would imagine there would have to be bars/taverns/etc.. of some sorts in settlements/cities, where players and npcs alike might congregate and swap stories, boast, or just central locations for forming expeditions and such. It could also fuel plots and or storyline with rumors and gossip in game, rather than utilizing forums or server-wide messages.

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The Hoover Dam Enclave and surrounding "Posts"? Eventually player controlled settlements could incorporate something similar.

drycat

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Originally posted by adrir

The game is class-less although I do like the idea of having some 'social' abilities introduced into the game. The aspects of social gaming have proven to become quite popular through innovations such as dancers in SWG although it does create a problem with macroing.

An interesting concept would be the utilisation of a set of mutant abilities working in parallel with these entertainment abilities. This could create a series of interesting effects although I would avoid introducing "buffs" or "enhancers".

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I definitely agree that dancing was taken advantage of in  SWG, although in SWG there was a method to the madness by macroing, which was evident in receiving AFK tips, a profession being mastered for the pursuit of jedi, etc. But, I agree it still bordered being an exploit. Oh hell, it was an exploit, no sense in tip-toeing through the tulips. Though, it was never treated as such while I was an active member of SWG, or now AFAIK. Wouldn't like to see AFK macro dancing. I think that that kind of abuse only detracts from the immersion factor.

I definitely think that combining dancing and mutant abilities is clever. But, like you say, it would have to be approached carefully since buffing and enhancements are something that I don't want to see either as a product of watching/listening to an entertainer.

 Originally posted by adrir

I totally agree, having something to do that doesn't involve combat can be quite entertaining. It also expands the game's diversity, appealing to other markets and player groups, who perhaps don't enjoy hack'n'slash, cookie-cutter or other combat-orientated titles.

Being a bar-keep or an entertainer in a post-apocalyptic environment opens up a vault of roleplaying possibilities and would hopefully place a heavy emphasis on immersion and realism outside fighting!

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 Exactly my thoughts as well! Although dispatching your opponents can be entertaining and rewarding, there are other markets at work besides the "kill them all!" market. And, most definitely I totally agree that a social element expands the diversity of a game, and prolongs it's shelf-life, so to speak. The more components that are available in-game to personalize a players' experience, can only increase the immersion factor of the game, as well as the depth of the role-playing experience.

Being a barkeep is an excellent point. Provided with forward updates of in-game events/news/changes could serve as an engine to address plot and storyline.

I would also like to see something along the lines of casinos introduced, but not without careful consideration and testing. This is something I can only imagine would take some time to introduce, maybe in future updates. I know casinos are touchy areas, especially considering the opportunities for exploit.

  

sinoth

I highly support this! Having the Entertainer/Chef option in SWG was very, very cool. It made cantinas come alive with people. Although, I can't really think of any in-game effects I'd want entertainers to give players. Chefs seem like they could be important though.. chef food could keep you alive a little longer, and stay edible longer.

Maybe the entertainer skills could just go under a broad skillset of RP skills that serve little purpose other than to give your character more depth.

Cthulhuvong

Definately have to agree with the adding of these kinds of abilities to the game. Entertainers could give people "inspiration buffs" like they did post-CU (after they removed battle fatigue and wounds). It basically gave you a small xp bonus to whatever you're doing. Also, a group of RP skills instead would be cool.

adrir

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Originally posted by Cthulhuvong
Definately have to agree with the adding of these kinds of abilities to the game. Entertainers could give people "inspiration buffs" like they did post-CU (after they removed battle fatigue and wounds). It basically gave you a small xp bonus to whatever you're doing. Also, a group of RP skills instead would be cool.

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Skillsets for roleplayers is an interesting idea. Introuducing a series of 'acting' abilities would be somthing for these players to work for and show off. However this could be percieved as an inconvienience and discourage roleplaying. Also, since we are still unaware of how skills and mutant powers are aquired; it would be annoying for those hardcore combatants when they powergame through a mission just to aquire a new roleplay-enhancing talent.

The xp bonuses and stat-enhancers are concepts I would prefer to avoid. These 'buffs' are very addictive and characters become dependent on them. Everyone tries to get enhancements to boost their success rates and take on greater challenges in the game, hence in theory have more fun. However, time is usually wasted trying to aquire them, groups can be held up, people leave as soon as they ware off, etc. In some games, the game world and MOBs had been balenced assuming characters would venture out constantly buffed! This meant that characters without these augmentations were fodder and the game became nearly unplayable until they aquired them!

Although something did occur to me, using these dancers and bar settings as a method of 'psyking-up' characters for adventuring the wilderness. It is possible that characters will need supplies such as food and water to keep themselves alive while out there. This type of buff could enable them to stay out in the field longer through reducing their consumption rates. However, this does bring us back to the: "waitz! need teh buffz! be there latrz!" issue.

drycat

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Originally posted by adrir

Skillsets for roleplayers is an interesting idea. Introuducing a series of 'acting' abilities would be somthing for these players to work for and show off. However this could be percieved as an inconvienience and discourage roleplaying. Also, since we are still unaware of how skills and mutant powers are aquired; it would be annoying for those hardcore combatants when they powergame through a mission just to aquire a new roleplay-enhancing talent.
The xp bonuses and stat-enhancers are concepts I would prefer to avoid. These 'buffs' are very addictive and characters become dependent on them. Everyone tries to get enhancements to boost their success rates and take on greater challenges in the game, hence in theory have more fun. However, time is usually wasted trying to aquire them, groups can be held up, people leave as soon as they ware off, etc. In some games, the game world and MOBs had been balenced assuming characters would venture out constantly buffed! This meant that characters without these augmentations were fodder and the game became nearly unplayable until they aquired them!
Although something did occur to me, using these dancers and bar settings as a method of 'psyking-up' characters for adventuring the wilderness. It is possible that characters will need supplies such as food and water to keep themselves alive while out there. This type of buff could enable them to stay out in the field longer through reducing their consumption rates. However, this does bring us back to the: "waitz! need teh buffz! be there latrz!" issue.

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I agree that having the entertainers would be something that should be strictly a role-playing element, and not something to buff or enhance the performance of players so that they could survive in the wastes. If not properly addressed (buffs that is), it would become too much of a fantasy(magical) setting. I would rather rely on skills and ability to compensate for difficult encounters than buffs or "magic". 

drycat

 

sinoth

So the general consensus seems to be that entertainers shold be roleplay only, no silly buffs. I agree with this, however the SWG discussion brought up an interesting issue... battle fatigue. For some reason, I really liked the way they had this at the beginning of the game (pre-CU). For those who didn't play SWG, battle fatigue was small amounts of damage done to your stats and health that couldn't be healed normally. Heavy fighting and cloning (death) gave you fatigue. Your mental fatigue could only be healed by entertainers, and physical fatigue by skilled medics. This forced you to eventually find a city, entertainers, and medics to fix you up.

IMO this improved player interaction, since you were forced to find a real player to heal you. I hope FE can find a system similar to this, because it just makes a lot of sense. Fight too long, and you start to wear down. Do you guys think FE should have a system like this?

Also, for those who want to be loners, it was possible to be a loner in SWG and heal your own fatigue, it just meant points spent in entertainer/healer instead fine tuning your combat.

drycat

I thought the battle fatigue system in SWG was an innovative system as well. And, I cannot agree more with the points you make Sinoth.

I liked the required rest periods at cantinas, enjoying entertainers music or dancing. Well, like you said, when it was still fresh and a properly working system in SWG, players had to do this. If you think about it, even people that desire never to see another player in game, would have to go into town to reprovision, sell loot, etc.. So, there is no way to avoid interaction with other players in an MMO.

I don't see requiring people to spend 10 to 15 minutes every 8 hours or so at a bar/tavern such a burden, as more than likely their inventory capacity won't let them stay out that long in the wastes anyway. What's more, the bars/taverns become focal points of the online community, which is a wonderful support tool for encouraging player interaction, as you stated in your post.

I think extended periods without entertainment/human contact would effect morale, which is probably what the battle fatigue system in SWG was all about. Of course, there will always be those people who will not want to be required to roleplay or interact with other people. I really think that if that is what people want, then they should buy a singleplayer game, and let the rest of us enjoy a real MMPORG, with systems that support and enhance the roleplaying experience.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but it truly makes me wonder why some people pay 15$ a month to play a game that they want to play by themselves. Their addition to the subscription base merely detracts from the overall experience that might have been enjoyed by the entire player base, absent their needs to be more solo-oriented. Don't get me wrong, there are times when we all enjoy doing something without the need to form a party. And I don't intend that as my target.

It is the destrruction of the roleplaying elements built off of the required interaction ( the actual roleplaying ), that I am opposed to. I may not have properly addressed this topic, which I am sure is the case.   

Stowaway

Social and non-combat skills for the win!

RipperjackAU

Whether or not such non-combat skills have a bearing on the game mechanics, I am all for them.

 

After having to stomach "whack-a-mole" combat system games like City of Heroes/Villains/EQ in tights, World of Gank/Cashcow/Warcraft, EQ 1 and 2 and so on and so on and so forth, like ever other bloody cookie-cutter, mo' money MMO, I am all for a game to have more non-combat content.

 

Most games these days revolve around the "whack a monster", "lewt the corpse", "get experience and train", rinse and repeat process. I am SOOOO over this game model.

 

Non-combat skills, such as entertainers, crafting, research, gambling and other such activities that don't require me to go out and smack something are very much welcome.

drycat

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Originally posted by RipperjackAU

Whether or not such non-combat skills have a bearing on the game mechanics, I am all for them.
 
After having to stomach "whack-a-mole" combat system games like City of Heroes/Villains/EQ in tights, World of Gank/Cashcow/Warcraft, EQ 1 and 2 and so on and so on and so forth, like ever other bloody cookie-cutter, mo' money MMO, I am all for a game to have more non-combat content.
 
Most games these days revolve around the "whack a monster", "lewt the corpse", "get experience and train", rinse and repeat process. I am SOOOO over this game model.
 
Non-combat skills, such as entertainers, crafting, research, gambling and other such activities that don't require me to go out and smack something are very much welcome.

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Well said Ripper. It is that repetetive process that eventually ruins the online experience. And, like you stated in your post, EQ and EQ2 are fine examples of that. The only thing good I can manage to say about EQ2 is that it is the most graphically pleasing "whack-a-mole" game out there(borrowing your adjective briefly). 

Blackmoor

Whats wrong with you people? I mean come on , the game companies have proven time and time again that all people want are mobs with insane hit points and ai thats one step below dumb as a box of rocks. They don't need or want anything to get in the way of farming uber gear off the same dungeon for months on end. Roleplaying , tradeskills , etc thats all just stuff they toss in so they can pump up their feature list for the game and not have to put much effort into doing anything with it.

And now that my evil twin Skippy has done his rant , its time for my take.

Dang it would be nice to have some actual depth to a game. Actual stores , bars , etc that players run. Not just a set of stalls where you set up prices and go afk or sit on the ground and go afk. Trade skills and other skills in game that aren't combat related and that are actually worth doing and not just total fluff. While some fluff is good , all fluff isn't.

While i give kudos to SWG for trying to impment this , they failed pretty badly in the tweaking and support of it and making it so it was something you did. Way to easy to macro/bot/afk play a lot of them and then with the latest revamp they pretty well got rid of them all i think.

Rather than a a penalty from combat i would prefer something similar to the rest xp bonus from WOW. Not saying xp but maybe some kind of bonus if you are in town working on tradeskills or running a bar for a decent length of time and go out to hunt. Then after hunting for a while you get some kind of bonus for tradeskilling or other more social activity. Nothing major but a bit of incentive to do the other things the game has to offer.

In the end it all hangs on a lot of things , how well done the non combat is , how vital it is to gameplay, and lastly not just made as a second thought to be just a line on the games feature list.

I really would like to see a "living" mmo world

admriker444

Im all for an entertainer class in the game. However there should be some point to it. Otherwise it wont be very popular

Take a look at SWG pre-cu with battle fatigue. Players had to stop in and get heals which of course led to much socialization.

Post-cu, no battle fatigue and suddenly even the most hard-core RP entertainers quit the profession.

ajmstilt

When i first heard about FE i sent an email to the devs askign the very question.  The reply was omethign like, "we're still in early stages of development.. yadda yadda"

Anywho i very much support the idea of an "entertainer" class, as well as a Battle fatigue system.  And from my experience in SWG there wasn't a problem with macros and afk dancers until the holocrons appeared.

As to Battle fatigue, if you have so that logging out at an inn or cantina or home will eleimatie your bf when you return (for those anti social types) but stopping by and being entertained will do it much faster in game I am SOO for it. 

As a side note if entertainers are introduced i propese all npc cantinas/inns/whatever have npc entertainers in them, (and they charge a smallish fee) such that if a live player entetrtainers arrives the npc will "go off shift"  Thus players will allways have a way of healing their BF, and entertainers will not have competition from bots.  Details get hard when it comes to tips and charging etc.  but a live player should allways be better than a bot.

Oh and Image designers were a great touch in swg.  Being able to change your apearance in the middle of the game was good. (like CoH/V tailors)

caprison

Howdy ya'll.. I think to encourage Roleplaying it is essential that the game rewards people for that roleplaying. There will be those, like I.. and i'm sure ya'll.. that enjoy roleplaying and will do it even if there isn't a reward, but.. we've gata find a way to pull in those dungeon divers and get them to interact. We all remember back in the D&D days why you went and talked to the bartender or the quite guy in the corner with a scar over his eye or the ugly looking man/woman thing serving you grog.. It was to immerse you into the world, have fun and progress the story. I think it would be beautiful to see player characters as the ones giving out some of the quests. Small stuff like Bartender player character Joe needs you to go find some hops for him so he can go make some beer but he's too busy to leave his shop.. maybe he even wants to sign a contract with you to get his hops for him for a period of time. He may even need some dancers for his tavern where he has a cover charge. It doesn't have to stop at bars.. what about player ran governments and towns. I know i'm describing utopia and it probably wouldn't happen.. but just think if it could work and it worked well.. how groundbreaking would that be?