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My choice : Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Xylonz
Member Posts: 9
I been playing MMORPG for more then 7 years, start form Ultima Online till now EverQeust 2, MMORPG game playing style were slipping way down, i mean it's getting boring and boring each time i change to another online games. For the up coming MMORPG, i vote for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, i been in their offical forum in a while, never seen so many player posting their wishlist of the game and discussion so much on a non-release game. How about you guys, what's your choice?
Comments
There are currently 2 dev teams out there that I trust to release a decent MMORPG...
Mythic - Makers of DAOC. The only MMORPG that I've ever seen release w/o any major issues in the game. Sure there were some minor balance issues but the game played FLAWLESSLY at release.
Sigil - A independant company made up, by and large, by the *original* EQ Dev team including Brad McQuaid.
Therefore the two that I'm watching for are Vanguard: SoH (Sigil's new game) and Warhammer Online (Mythic's new title)
I'm keeping a '3rd eye' on LOTRO but I suspect it will flop. I've already tried Turbine's other title (DDO) and don't think it's going to succeed very well, if at all.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
hehe... that's Brad McQuaid, not McQuid. McQuid sounds like it would translet into "Son of Money". A bit of Fraudian Slippage there.
Yes I agree, Vanguard is looking amazing. The dev support is awesome, the game concepts are incredible.. this is the only mmorpg im currently looking forward to.
Tis called a "Typographical error"
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Tis called a "Typographical error"
Yes, but it was one of those really humourous ones that made me laugh. Maybe you have to be a Brit to get it, but it was funny.
I can't get interested in Vanguard mainly because McQuaid's basic philosophy seems to be ---It's all about the raiders!---
Give the raiders everything and let the peasants eat cake.
In that post that he did on the FoH forum he essentially said that the role of non-raiders is to stand around on the sidelines worshipping the people who do raid. Because what fun is it for raiders to get uber equipment if they don't have any peasants to show it off to and make themselves feel superior because the peasants will NEVER...EVER...even have a CHANCE to get any good equipment.
He's stuck in the old EQ mentality that the only game activity that should be rewarded is long, long, mind numbingly boring raid farming with multiple groups. And that the most noble gamers are the ones who like to grovel to a foul mouthed teen egomaniac, putting up with crap that most people wouldn't even put up with in the real world just because they know that if they get kicked out of their uber guild they won't be able to get virtual goodies anymore.
"Saga of Heroes" should be changed to "Saga of the Sycophantic Zerglings."
Because that's what it's going to be. No matter how much they talk about core gamers and the AES they still insist that all of the best stuff must be reserved for raiders and raiders only. And as long as they stick to that philosophy it means that the game WILL end up revolving around raiding. Non-raiders will be left twiddling their thumbs at the high end with nothing to do but serve as admiring peasants for the raiders.
They wouldn't even consider giving non-raiders a shot at high end equipment even if the non-raiders had to work longer, harder, and take more risks to get it. I've followed the debates on their message boards quite a lot (though I'm not registered to post there) and I have never seen a dev reply to any of the endless raider/non-raider debates that gives any hope that the game will be anything but raid oriented.
A lot of people who are desparate for a new game are trying to convince themselves otherwise but I'm not falling for it. If your into the --all raiding all the time-- type of game then Vanguard is for you. But if you aren't then your going to just end up feeling pissed off, cheated, and condemed to second class citizenship if you play that game.
Whew...lot of hate here. But I went through that once before in EQ and it just annoys me that they are so stuck in that rut.
Honestly this is my biggest worry about Vanguard and really is the problem I had with the original Everquest and why I really only started getting into EQ1 when Shadows of Luclin came out. Great gear and items should drop from high level mobs I agree, but it's this whole several group thing that really gets to me and why I hated raiding in EQ1. That doesn't mean it has to be easy just because there is one group.
I just finished my epic armor quest in Dark Age of Camelot(parts of it was easy since it's a series of quest that starts from level 5 and the last quest is at 45. One of the things I enjoyed about the last part was how the last quest was setup. We went with a full group, several others were doing the same thing(since all the epics after 35 lead to the same place with the same mission). You had enemes just coming at one one after another, several at a time, for several minutes. Even with power(mana) being drained due to heals, chants, and magic attacks. That was just one room and the same happen again. Sure Mythic could have made you have to go kill a dragon or something with several groups but this still took some time to due, took a long time to reach and was interesting during the fight due to how it was setup(with traps as well). Then again this is different from raiding I think it coudl show something very important game wise can be done without having to be this huge thing where dozens of people are needed for something only one or two people will be allowed to get or use.
When Vanguard was announced and it was said it was from the original dev team (at least some of them) of EQ I honestly was worried. True we have a choice not to play or not and I've decided not to try it out cause I feel things won't be something I'd like but still I was hoping they would have changed their direction or at least seen that things can be done differently, especially after the community has experienced several differnt ways things can be done and still be a challenge. It seems like Vanguard at times in certain things is moving backwards, or at least not moving at all.
Then again I could be wrong and they could surprise me. Oh well.
I have to agree with, Neanderthal post. While I do like raiding. I remember how EQ turned out, and frankly I don't want to do that again. Raiding is fun on the weekends, but the idea of a whole game. That caters to nothing, but people that can see in on raids. I find myself turned off by the game.
Currently looking forward to:
Dark and Light
Darkfall Online
Seal Online (English)
Holy Beast Online (English)
Rising Force Online (English)
Currently no longer looking forward to:
Dungeons and Dragons Online
Roma Victor
Warhammer Online
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Currently wish they were back in development:
Mythica
Dragon Empires
Ultima Online 2 or UXO (Not picky would take either one about now)
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Vanguard will not be the game for me because it is going to be a group/raid oriented game which will be anti-soloing. Just because a game is technically soloable, doesn't mean it is solo friendly/fun.
Crafting/trade is an important aspect for me in a MMOG and I hashed it out with the crafting designer on the Vanguard forums to discover that the best crafted items will require group dependency to make, because the ingredients will drop or be harvested from group mobs/areas. It makes no sense to pursue crafting as a soloer, only to make the lower 75% of items your trade has to offer.
I am kind of perplexed by this, since EQ1 was solo friendly to both adventurers and crafters prior to Planes of Power expansion which was an SOE addition. That expansion ruined EQ1 by adding crafted items with ingredients obtained in group/raid zones only. Prior to that, a druid or necro with the proper faction could solo the ice worms for ice silk, which were the most difficult mob to kill for tailoring ingredients, my chosen craft.
It was still a challenge to tailor as a soloer, because of the difficulty in obtaining ingredients due to the opponents and the rarity of the drops, as well as the fail rate of the crafting attempt which would result in loss of ingredients. It was also an arduous task to max tailoring to 250 skill, as most who tried, quit in frustration. It is a misnomer that crafting is too easy or the market will be flooded by devalued items if the best items can be created by a soloer. EQ1 prior to Planes of Power proved that.
EQ1, which was created by Verant and Brad Mcquaid, was both solo friendly and group/raid friendly for the first several years until SOE started focusing the game on raid/group content only. There was plenty of content for all playstyle choices originally. Why Brad Mcquaid has chosen not to follow his original principles of EQ1 in Vanguard, to be inclusive of soloers and group/raiders alike, is puzzling. EQ1 was certainly successful and both fun and challenging prior to SOE ruining it.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I didn't find EQ1 solo-friendly at all past lvl 10 or so, and I played in the early days (pre-kunark mostly). I guess people have different definitions of what constitutes a solo-friendly game.
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
I played from day 1 for almost 4 years straight. I can't tell you how many times I leveled a new character to 50 on multiple servers. In the beginning the game grew so fast, that they were opening new servers every couple months and it was a blast starting fresh in a new world over and over again.
EQ1 was challenging to solo in, but also solo friendly until Planes of Power release. By solo friendly I mean fun and worthwhile. There was plenty of content for soloers, and I didn't feel like a second class citizen compared to group/raid oriented players, even though there was group/raid content that was too difficult for me to attempt. I was comfortable with that since I had plenty of content for myself.
Obviously people have different opinions on what is friendly to them. Personally I like stiff battle loss penalties and a slow and difficult level/skill raising process to extend the life of the game and make it challenging.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Great post Neanderthal
Pretty much sums up my biggest problem with MMOs today. Not that I admire the raider in his full set of epic gear, but that kind of end content is totally pseudo-content: I was a raider in another game and altho some fun is to be had from organizing and doing the raids, they very quickly loose their luster and become a grind for Items. Its an easy way for Devs to sucker people into keep paying the subscription, when the game has become stale long ago.
I really do not have a solution except that Dev should try not taking the easy way out and put some work into providing real content in stead of pseudo, repeatable content. I might be a peseant now but I demand more bang for my buck than the mindless raids, Devs insists on adding as end-content.
I have to agree about the raiding worry but at the same time I can see Vanguard wants to award those that put the most effort into their characters. Thats why it's Hardcore, while a game like WoW is Softcore.
About EQ1, it's funny really. I still have a RL friend who plays that game and we both started in 1999. Anytime I want to go back he's like "I'll give you 20k and get you in a good guild". He's like the 3rd best warrior on the server and has 6 accounts all level 70. If you care about competition (which you really shouldn't worry much) you'll compete with guys like these.
Vanguard and DDO looks the best alternatives for me currently.
Vanguard sounds focused on more in depth combat, immersive environments and grouping content.
DDO sounds more focused on grouping content with some really nice mob design like they had in AC2. So both I am looking forward to. Only downside with Vanguard is it could be too hardcore which back along didn't matter so much but it does now.