I find Squidi's assertion that the NGE is welcomed by the majority of the population to be spurious. We don't even have accurate numbers of the total subscriptions/active subscriptions in SWG. How exactly can he/she assert that the negative reactions to the NGE and to SOE/LA are necessarily the minority? Obviously we can't even assert that they are the majority. There is simply not enough evidence to back either claim. So for anyone including HardCoreMember to assert that the "silent majority" is on their side of the argument is spouting baseless rhetoric.
Originally posted by Aetius73 How can we give something a chance that is such a buggy incomplete piece of garbadge? Soe has demonstrated their lack of profession in this matter by A. Not Listening to their existing player base B. Releasing a product into a live server that is not fit for Beta testing and maybe even Alpha testing yes its that buggy C. SOE lies plain and simple. Remember the comments from Smed "our players overwhelminly support these changes" when in fact the opposite was true. New players beware the tutorial is not how the rest of the game is, and SOE has a tradition of lying and cheating its customers. Not only would I avoid SWG I would avoid anything by SOE period.
It's galling to have to have to pay for this buggy publish. I understand that programming is an inexact profession. The simple programs that learn in my college classes usually never work the first time through so I imagine hundreds of thousands of more lines of code would be that much more daunting. But really I don't really quite understand why we MUST subsidize that effort as Squidi seems to be suggesting.
Sony are the macdonalds of the mmorg and Star Wars Galaxies is when the salads went on sale. Not that tasty but better than any other crap Sony have made!
Nothing wrong with the graphics. However all sony games are for under 12....with teen ratings lol.
I wish I had got into STG a long time ago as it would have been my first mmorg experience.
People have their self image directly tied to their SWG experience. There is NO WAY that they are leaving gracefully. Even with a refund for Trials of Obi-Wan, there's nobody gracefully accepting it. Oh, they're accepting it, but anyway but gracefully.
The SWG is the most spoiled playerbase of any MMORPG out there. I'm not sure including them in on the plans would work any better, if not being a generally bad idea. When they see the changes, they'll complain and demand other changes - and when the changes go through anyway, they'll get even more upset. I believe it is best to take away any illusion of input on this matter. SOE can listen later, but right now, they have higher priorities.
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I have to take issue.....swg are not spoiled, they are fans of what was a brilliant and completely unique experience......Go to the top of this page...click on "game list" ....then sort by genre.....of the listed sci-fi mmo,s just look at the screen shots....SWG was unique. the fans of star wars don't like the 1 billion fantasy clones with trolls and elves....we think that content is boring....you insult the ppl for in fact growing up with star wars since childhood and having a true loyalty to this game because this is what we saw on the movies....and we think it was plenty "star warsy" beforehand.....And hell ya some ppl tied their self image to it! You know as well as I that some ppl live their entire existence in here.....let me share an example of just one....
A dear friend of mine....who was going to die.....pretty much unable to do anything but lay around because she was weak and in pain.....often times suicidal......when I met and got to know her i learned then that MMO's don't fit your regular "game" category......It was then I opened my eyes to the fact that she wanted to escape into that world....as much as she could....becuase in her's, it was about to end......ppl aren't spoiled....."they need to get a life." might be what you say, I'd say you then lack the fact that this is how it is in an MMO situation......I KNOW they live in every other MMO too....they are the ones who need this more than any of us....don't call them spoiled, it's just way to generalized a statement....by that argument, you could say that about any product, an automobile for example could be lumped into that category because ppl are too dependent on it for transportation? u see? it's the same argument if u use such a broad based stroke.
We all know that wasn't the intention of the game creators.....we know it....but dang, what a compliment to them? (I know if I invented the game and saw ppl living there...I'd realize that it was bigger than me and be humbled, not insensed to it)....it was the ones "living" there that helped me learn how to play the game....they were the ones with "helper" above their names...it was how they contributed to society...THEIR society...../sigh.....no good can come of the nge.
faxx of bria (p.s. what once was 200 ppl in theed is now less than 15 even if u include the cantina...that was BRIA I said.....the MOST populated server)
Originally posted by GreenHell I think that the review was pretty much dead on. I have started to wonder though if it is even possible to create a diverse MMO based on Star Wars. The bottom line is that people want to play Jedi. It doesn't matter how hard or boring it may be to become one. It doesn't matter if they are an "alpha" class or the worst class in the game. People are drawn to Jedi. For a large majority of people Jedi are Star Wars. This would be a problem in any game. If WoW had that one class that everyone related to warcraft they would be in the same boat..but they don't. A Star Wars MMO seems to be doomed by its name. While the Star Wars Universe is full of diverse species and professions a MMO would not be. Even before the NGE this was a problem. You could change the time line but really in the end what good is that going to do? You still end up with a game full of Jedi. Balancing Jedi with every other class wouldn't matter either. Fitting them in to their niche as WoW has done with its classes would probably be just as bad. The only way I could see there being any real diversity would be to have a game full of jedi and then have seperate classes for the jedi. Kind of like a mix of the pre nge SWG and WoW. You would have to chose whether you wanted to be a healing jedi (priest) a tank jedi (warrior) etc... As long as people have a lightsaber it might work. Not a perfect fix but unless something changes with peoples perception of jedi and star wars the "popular class" issue will always be a problem. I am not flaming Jedi it is just an observation from a player that has been in the game for over 2 years. It seems like everyone had or was working on being a Jedi. Why have over 30 professions when the majority of players only really want one.
Well one of the points from the SOE SWG forums is that SWG suffers from a distinct lack of high endgames other than Jedi. If the only next level is Jedi, then people are naturally going to try for it. I don't see the 30 professions as a waste of time, though the balancing evidently was decided to be too arduous for SOE/LA.
actually the profession system is not improved, it has been dumbed down. there are no skill choices at all, merly the choice of limited iconic professions at the beginning, and once you choose the profession you don't get to choose the order you learn the skills. no one really understand why they did what they did with the NGE, considering they had what many considered the best game out here pre-cu, and even after the cu the game still maintained enough of the original qualities to keep it afloat.
as to the discussion of jedi in game which in my opinion is the reason the game is constantly being changed i will say this..... Jedi MUST be in game for the game to really be starwars. for it to be realistic starwars the jedi must be limited to a small number. this means that only a limited number of players will be able to unlock the jedi profession. by doing this you maintain the starwars feel and "mystyk" of the jedi, while not having an over-population. pvp and combat is then more balanced for the other profs to participate as well. what we saw happen was an overpopulation of jedi becuase the developers did not limit the number of jedi possible and as a result....a large portion of the players wanted to unlock their jedi. this lead to the majority of pvp being done by jedi while everyone els just kinda sat on the sidelines with excpetions of course.
the argument is that players will not want to play the game if they don't have a chance to become jedi, however i beleive the type of player who likes the complexities that a pre-cu world offered would also understand why it is important for realism to limit the jedi number in some way. the organization of the game would have to allow for some jedi to be moved out and others moved in....an that would be left up to the creative forces that be. an example of one solution would be to have a kill count that jedi are allowed before they lose their jedi slot, at which time they must create a new character. what makes this option viable is that it is realistic in a virtual world setting.
the virtual world component is the other problem soe has with the current game. a pre-cu starwars was really a virtual world, where one actually lived in the starwars times. it was extremly complex and that is what made it so addicting. i belive swg was really ahead of it's time with this virtual world, which was greatly reduced by the combat upgrade last winter, and totally destroyed by the current NGE.
in conclusion i feel strongly that the pre-cu starwars galaxies was by far the best game i have ever played, as it was literally like stepping into the starwars world and makingyour way. the only problem...which turned out to be the problem that would eventually take the game to where it is today...was that the devs needed to be equally creative with how the jedi would be managed. had the devs been able to be as ground breaking with the jedi management as they were with the rest of the world, the game would be truely a thing to behold....
I just have a few general comments to add here. Mostly in regards to Squidie's defense of the programmers for taking this "essential" step to saving the game.
First, we're not upset with the programmers. They aren't the ones who have the power to make these broad, sweeping changes to a games base. We understand that it's the company executives who decide what direction a game is going to take; having worked for a few software developers myself I know full well that what is needed is often ignored to fulfill the desires of a "creative director" somewhere who's sole job is to figure out why numbers are going down or take credit if numbers go up. Some are great, some aren't, and I think SWG is just having one of the latter sort at the helm right now...
What software companies need to realize is that we're consumers, not assets. While we have an attachment, we'll put up with a certaint amount of frustration, so long as we feel like changes are being made to improve a gaming experience. But ultimately, we vote with our wallets. The fact that the game has been floundering for years has less to do with the game being not "star warsy" enough than that the developers made a fundamental business decision to constantly push new expansions through rather than correct bugs and balance the basic premises of the game. The not being Star Warsy argument is pure bull btw, as someone who's grown up with the movies, has read and owns 40 of the books, and runs a star wars rpg group I consider myself a minor authority. But then again, I have a job and can afford to play these games, which apparently means I'm not the "core audience" SWG is looking for these days. SWG has been from the start an incredibly bold stab at making a fully realized gaming universe that has been hampered primarily by bugs that the developers could not fix, either for some technical reason they never admitted or due to the desire to push out new pay content. I have no problem buying pay content for a game, but they fact they let some basic bugs in starter professions sit for almost two years before addressing is why they lost their initial player base.
I'll admit, I was one of those "goobers" who hated the CU and simply turned to the non combat classes after it came out. I fully understand the new SWG answer to everything, that "content may change during play." We're not stupid, we know this. What we didn't expect was for them to literally remove everything that was different, interesting, and appealing about the game to make it into a generic fps. The combat upgrade was a bad idea fueled by forum rats (and btw, if you use the term "care bear" at any point, you don't need to ask, you're a forum rat.) It was made mildly tolerable by the new expansion of ROTW and the promises by every spokesman of SWG that they were now focusing on balancing the professions and fixing the years-old bugs so many had. We put out our money so they could pay people to do just that, and LA lied to us about how that money was being spent. I state lie because they DID clearly state they were dealing with correcting the classes and went so far as to officially post schedules as to what was being fixed in what order. Then, they deleted the classes entirely. When a company states they are doing one thing with their revenue and instead spend that money on something else entirely and never delivers the product (in this case, the corrections) they promised, that is fraud. That's an actionable charge legally, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this ends up being the first consumer vs gaming company lawsuit.
It was a stupid, stupid decision. It would have been one thing to be public about cancelling those promised corrections to the professions and stated they were ending the initial SWG gamestyle, classes, and content entirely (and whatever you state, when my partners Master BH/CH no longer exists, you can NOT state this is a "significant change that still runs on the same engine and therefore is still the same game") and deal with the obvious and loud criticism they wholeheartedly deserve. It was another thing to lie to the consumers and then pop out in the manner they decided to.
PS And yes, I understand most EULA's prohibit sueing companies based on the "as is" nature of the product. I'm not going to sue, but I do think this might be the first case to truly test how strong that EULA is as many more literate and informed consumers than I play this game. And they are angry.
After playing NGE for about two weeks i cant but agree. The game is still absolutely barren of any high end content and it has so many bugs right now its ridiculous.
I really dont understand where SOE is hoping to go with this. The server populations are near comatose, i have never seen the servers so empty during the 21 months ive played swg. Oh well, maybe they will get their act together in the future, but right now the game isnt worth anyones attention.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by isanderSWG I find Squidi's assertion that the NGE is welcomed by the majority of the population to be spurious.
That's not exactly what I said. I said that players that didn't like SWG, new to SWG, hadn't tried SWG, or approached the NGE with an open mind would find things to like about it - and that the number of those people outnumber the current subscribers a whole bunch. I mentioned that SWG has sold over 1.5 million copies but has a subscriber rate of 250,000 players - even if just the people who bought the game and left were to come back for a single month, SOE would manage to make up for the loss of some subscribers for a few months.
I can't say whether the current population welcomes the NGE, nor could I say that they don't. However, the people who aren't the current population have nothing to lose by the NGE and everything to gain.
Originally posted by isanderSWG It's galling to have to have to pay for this buggy publish. I understand that programming is an inexact profession. The simple programs that learn in my college classes usually never work the first time through so I imagine hundreds of thousands of more lines of code would be that much more daunting. But really I don't really quite understand why we MUST subsidize that effort as Squidi seems to be suggesting.
I never suggested subsidizing an effort you don't agree with. My stance has always been that if you aren't having fun, stop subscribing. Don't subscribe or unsubscribe to make a point, only to play a game you find worth the $15 a month or not. Personally, I have a Station Pass and play other SOE games because I didn't think EQ, EQ2, Matrix Online or SWG were worth $15 individually, but worth collectively $22 a month. If you asked me if SWG was worth playing, I would and have suggested to wait a few months first.
If you don't like it, don't play and don't pay. However, I did say that the changes are more complex and time consuming than people anticipate. This is more to stave off unreasonable demands (pre-CU servers, rollbacks, compensations, balance issues, complex new features in days time) than to suggest that we fund the effort if we aren't having fun.
Originally posted by Gamerbear Mostly in regards to Squidie's defense of the programmers for taking this "essential" step to saving the game.
Sure thing, Gamabare. Of course, bothering to spell my handle correctly would go a long way towards making this conversation more productive.
First, we're not upset with the programmers. They aren't the ones who have the power to make these broad, sweeping changes to a games base.
Some are. They blame bugs, slow turn over, and poor implementation of programmers - and rightfully so, though as an ex-programmer, I do think they are getting blamed for things out of their control.
We understand that it's the company executives who decide what direction a game is going to take;
That's sort of true. At my company, we were a subsidary of Activision. They defined what the game was supposed to be like and the development milestones. Within our team, we also had a producer who exerted his influence over the game, as well as an official "designer" position. The project leads (art and programming) also had design influence. Most of the people on the team didn't have any input at all.
I believe this decisions seems like LucasArts or the management at SOE were looking at SWG as a failure and came up with criteria to fix it, but it was up to the individual teams to come up with the implementation. Different parts of the NGE feel like different design philosophies. The 9 "iconic" professions seems like it came from on high, but the combat seems like it was created by someone who loved SWG and wanted to make it better. I don't think there's anyone to blame for the whole NGE except for the old SWG not living up to the expectations of the developers, players, and suits.
What software companies need to realize is that we're consumers, not assets.
And what consumers need to realize is that they are consumers and not gods. It's sad to say, but you are replacable. If I lose three players but gain nine, then I made a good marketing decision. If I make design decision which offends three players but makes the game more enjoyable for nine, I made a good design decision. Your personal interests factor so little into either process, that walking up to their front door with a list of demands is a tad bit silly.
While we have an attachment, we'll put up with a certaint amount of frustration,
They've done studies and interestingly enough, you'll put up with the frustration of what you know to suck rather than take a chance on a change that might suck. Ironically, and this is true, you'll put up with MORE frustration with the devil you know than deal with change. I forget what book I read this in (I believe it was a business book, but it could've been a design book), but I do know that Machiavelli says practically the same thing in The Prince.
But ultimately, we vote with our wallets.
Kind of makes you wonder why people stay subscribed but keep complaining loudly about the NGE, doesn't it?
The fact that the game has been floundering for years has less to do with the game being not "star warsy" enough than that the developers made a fundamental business decision to constantly push new expansions through rather than correct bugs and balance the basic premises of the game. The not being Star Warsy argument is pure bull btw
I've been reading the SWG forums since launch, and I can say that is a false statement. Early on, they asked what people would do to improve the game, and the things that came up most frequently was new content, bug fixes, and more Star Warsy. This was even before JtL came out; folks were suggesting that ships would contribute to the Star Warsy feel. Back when the battlefields were still in the game. This is an OLD complaint, I kid you not. Bug fixes are maintenence. They don't bring in new players and they don't keep old players except in extreme situations. Content and Star Warsy feel have always been on the top of the want list for SWG.
But then again, I have a job and can afford to play these games, which apparently means I'm not the "core audience" SWG is looking for these days.
SWG sold 1.5 million copies, but retained only 250,000 subscribers (most of which had multiple accounts, meaning the number of warm bodies is significantly lower). The core audience are the people who bought the game, not the few still playing it.
SWG has been from the start an incredibly bold stab at making a fully realized gaming universe that has been hampered primarily by bugs that the developers could not fix, either for some technical reason they never admitted or due to the desire to push out new pay content.
Don't blame expansions. They are done by a different team than bug fixes and feature changes that is funded with different money that comes from that pay content - of which, I should point out, is entirely optional. Expansions are part of running a MMORPG, and you can't cry foul when everybody is doing it and they aren't all facing the same troubles as SWG was/is.
What we didn't expect was for them to literally remove everything that was different, interesting, and appealing about the game to make it into a generic fps.
It is hardly a generic FPS. You've still got skills, levels, and quests like any other MMORPG. If anything, the new combat system is exactly the different, interesting, and appealing aspect of a game that you'd be praising if you liked the NGE. The profession changes didn't affect the game that much - yeah, you can't change later, but they combined classes rather than strictly removing them. If you were already a merchant/artisan/shipwright/architect, you haven't lost or gained anything (even the decay change wouldn't affect you much). Likewise, combat classes were stupid - you can use a pistol but not a carbine? Roll all that crap up and just let people choose the classes with actual gameplay differences.
As for the different, interesting,a nd appealing aspects of the game, last I checked, SWG was still the only MMORPG with a ground and space game and the ability to create player towns and plop down structures anywhere in the wild. It has changed, but ultimately, not for better or for worse. It was a lateral move.
LA lied to us about how that money was being spent.
I would like you to back up that statement with proof. I don't recall them ever explicitly saying how the money was being used. They may have stated intentions, but nothing to do with money or even how the entire development teams are organized or spend their time. I believe your accusation is itself a lie.
That's an actionable charge legally, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this ends up being the first consumer vs gaming company lawsuit.
If you can back up your statement, perhaps. But a spurious charge based on hearsay and speculation won't get you very far.
(and whatever you state, when my partners Master BH/CH no longer exists, you can NOT state this is a "significant change that still runs on the same engine and therefore is still the same game")
In Smedley's last post, he mentioned that managing creatures will make it back into the game as part of one of the 9 classes, as soon as the team can figure out a way for it to work within the new system.
I really dont understand why they have to change a game that has many proffesions, massive things to do into a game in which you choose a proffesion and be stuck with it... This whole thing has nothing to do with making it more like starwars...
Dont know how many people here play or have played SWG, but last I was online it was mostly deserted...
Pity since I loved the game, but if you ruin a good working game be prepared for many ppl leaving...
=> Horizons : Empire of Istaria <= Rvlion, Dralion, Sslion. (Retired due to bad management and service of GN)
=> Star Wars Galaxies <= Dralion the Human (Cancelled 2 hours after playing the "improved game")
As a veteran subscriber to SWG (and also a longtime MMORPG gamer), I think giving the NGE a 6.3 is WAY too generous--they have absolutely ruined this game. The guys at SOE and Lucas need to have their buns rewired or something. This is the post I wrote on the SWG Forums about it:
In 1985, after 99 years with essentially the same taste, Coca-Cola decided to switch to a new, high-fructose corn syrmp, to make Coke taste sweeter and smoother--more like its arch rival, Pepsi. This historic decision was preceded by a top-secret $4 million survey of 190,000 people, in which the new formula beat the old by 55 percent to 45 percent. What Coca-cola apparently neglected to take into account was that many of the 45 percent who preferred old Coke did so passionately. The 55 percent who voted for new Coke might have been able to live with the old formula, but many on the other side swore that they could not stomach new Coke. The event proved to be both disasterous and embarrasing to Coke, and they had to eventually retract their plan and re-issue Coke Classic in the wake of massive protests and defections. The event now lives in the annals of 'What Not To Do' in MBA schools throughout the world.
What Julio Torres and his team are probably beginning to realize is that they have done EXACTLY the same thing to Star Wars Galaxies. Yes, focus group testing might suggest that the New SWG is better than the Classic SWG, but try and tell that to a Creature Handler who just lost all of his or her beloved pets. Nevermind the fact that the release of TOW just before the announcement of these wholesale changes really is fraudulent--the frustration that so many of us in the Star Wars Community feel is that we have been outright betrayed, and they are taking away our Coke to give us new-and-improved-Coke...which no one but the makers wants."
I have to pass on this little bit of information to all the Star Wars Galaxy fans. I too am a Pre-NGE Jedi that spent hours and hours grinding and working toward unlocking that sacred proffession only to be dissappointed when it was given out to anyone on the 22nd. Not a big deal. I have cancelled 5 accounts to include my 10 year old son who has been playing next to me for the past 2 years. He was an Icon in our guild always ready to help, and you couldnt tell him from the next player. The social interaction he had with adults I believe has made him a more intelligent young man. and to the Players of MSNR and the Valcyn server I thank you. on a sad note he doesnt think that SWG is fun anymore and literally cried first 2 days it was out so we're playing World of War craft now and enjoying it very much....
I have to say I thought JUST for grins I'd see the load on the servers when you try to create a new toon. and I'll be darned if 95% of them weren't LIGHT....maintaining customer base? I sure hope they didn't take out a GREAT big corporate loan on this expenditure. anyway...nough rambling...
Mr Rob VERY VERY well put article I commend you on your opinions of the game as I would say reflect the opinions of a large majority of SWG Vets.
Originally posted by Teala I have to disagree on three of your scores. Fun, Community, and CS. How you could rate them so high is mind boggling. The game is to buggy and klunky to be fun any more. They messed up key mapping, and with all the bugs you encounter now and there are way more now than ever before it is not fun. I would give it at most a 3 for fun myself. Community you gave a 7! Maybe in pre-NGE, but not now. Total guilds have vanished from the game. SOE killed off a large portion of the games community with this mess. I would rate it a 2 at most. My former server Tarquinas is almost empty of players. CS. This has to be an error. Star Wars Galaxies is notorious for their poor CS. How can you honestly give this games CS the score you did. Their customer service is so bad they even shut down their online CS services to players. This should get a 1.
Agree with you 100%. I also played on Tarquinas from Oct. '03 took a break just before the CU, then came back after the CU for a couple months and then gave up. I couldn't believe when I heard about the NGE being released a week after ToOW...old school swg was immersive, challenging and we had a really good community on Tarq. It was a ghost town right after the CU hit, but picked back up some. My IGN was Imed Rary, what was your toon's name?
Originally posted by Teala You know the more I review your review, I think you are actually doing a huge disservice to gamers with your scores. Are you afraid to score it honestly so that SOE doesn't pull their ads? I think maybe you are. As long as gaming websites like this kiss up to game companies like SOE they'll continue to release buggy and broken games. NGE is chuck full of bugs, it is not even 1/4 of the way finished. Combat is atrocious. The loot tables are no better than what they had before though they swear they are. The GUI is abysmal. How can you possibly think that you can score this game the way you did and think people are going to take you seriously? QFE!!!!!
Many people left ... yeah, but I know even more who are coming back. For the roleplaying. I've only roleplayed since i'm back, and, to help the current flow of Jedi, (roleplaying aspect) we are trying to make a new Jedi order. SWG got a DAMN lot of bug .. true ... weapon doesn't matter for dmg .. it's only the look. But, at least, their some chance of improvement
First, sorry for getting your name wrong Squidi. It was not intended as an insult.
I'm not going to go into too much here as of course, I've stated my thoughts and you've stated yours and I have no desire to engage in a flame war. I will say that you're quite right though on the concept that if changing a game nets more new players than the ones they loose they win. I just...well, apparently there's not a single media source that seems to see this run as the salvation of the game. And saying as I can now honestly say I know not a single person, online or IRL who has not cancelled their game accounts in the last few weeks I have my own personal doubts as to whether or not they've made the wiser decision. And again, I think a lot of that is due to the very selective process used for their test group.
You wanted a bit of the reference to the planned changes we were given as players of the game.
I couldn't find the link I was initially looking for; it was an Oct-November 2004 post regarding development plans after JTL starting with the CU and listing a Smuggler/BH revamp, a Ranger revamp, and an Entertainer revamp and actual timeframes for each. I also considered posting the December 2004 post welcoming the new staff at SWG who were going to be dedicated to working exclusively on current game content to take the strain off of the developers who were trying to do both the debugging and content at the time. There were at some point countless posts, but either when they remodelled the forums earlier this year or when they "archived" the forums it's been lost from my archives. So I'll leave this as my main evidence. Those of us who've played the game will sadly have to deal with others arguing we're making up the months of statements by the devs.
I frankly don't want to argue about this, though, there's no point. I, as apparently many of the other posters, have already voted with our pocketbooks. I've moved to playing COV/WOW in the meantime, and look forward to other, less convoluted game policies with other companies. As I've said before, I feel fairly certaint this will be my last LucasArts game.
I also just have to say, I think your proposition that MMORPG players would rather stay with a crappy game than play another is spurious at best. I don't know a single MMORPG player that has only played one game; we tend to play several and tend to move on when games get bad. I'm a light player, and I've played EQ, EQII, DAOC, FFXI, COH, COV, WOW, SWG, and even Maple Story. I don't think any company could stay in business if their attitude is "screw them they're too lazy to cancel their account" these days.
Originally posted by GreenHell I think that the review was pretty much dead on. I have started to wonder though if it is even possible to create a diverse MMO based on Star Wars. The bottom line is that people want to play Jedi. It doesn't matter how hard or boring it may be to become one. It doesn't matter if they are an "alpha" class or the worst class in the game. People are drawn to Jedi. For a large majority of people Jedi are Star Wars. This would be a problem in any game. If WoW had that one class that everyone related to warcraft they would be in the same boat..but they don't. A Star Wars MMO seems to be doomed by its name. While the Star Wars Universe is full of diverse species and professions a MMO would not be. Even before the NGE this was a problem. You could change the time line but really in the end what good is that going to do? You still end up with a game full of Jedi. Balancing Jedi with every other class wouldn't matter either. Fitting them in to their niche as WoW has done with its classes would probably be just as bad. The only way I could see there being any real diversity would be to have a game full of jedi and then have seperate classes for the jedi. Kind of like a mix of the pre nge SWG and WoW. You would have to chose whether you wanted to be a healing jedi (priest) a tank jedi (warrior) etc... As long as people have a lightsaber it might work. Not a perfect fix but unless something changes with peoples perception of jedi and star wars the "popular class" issue will always be a problem. I am not flaming Jedi it is just an observation from a player that has been in the game for over 2 years. It seems like everyone had or was working on being a Jedi. Why have over 30 professions when the majority of players only really want one.
Well one of the points from the SOE SWG forums is that SWG suffers from a distinct lack of high endgames other than Jedi. If the only next level is Jedi, then people are naturally going to try for it. I don't see the 30 professions as a waste of time, though the balancing evidently was decided to be too arduous for SOE/LA.
While I agree that there is NO end game content for players in SWG I really don't think it would have stopped the Jedi grind. Can you honestly say that people wouldn't have continued to grind jedi even with tons of content? Of course they would have. There is a NEED to be a jedi. It doesn't matter if Jedi sucks people will still do what ever it takes to be one. After giving this strange compulsion some thought there really is only one answer to this problem and it's NOT taking Jedi out of the game. I can see no other way for a SW MMORPG to exsist other than the way I stated in my previous post. Make some where between 7-10 different classes of Jedi that people can pick from. It is the only way to move past the jedi problem and start working on content and bug fixes. This way everyone has a jedi that will serve a purpose and fill a niche. As much as it kind of sucks having a WoW clone seems to be the only fix.
Originally posted by Squidi I never suggested subsidizing an effort you don't agree with. My stance has always been that if you aren't having fun, stop subscribing. Don't subscribe or unsubscribe to make a point, only to play a game you find worth the $15 a month or not. Personally, I have a Station Pass and play other SOE games because I didn't think EQ, EQ2, Matrix Online or SWG were worth $15 individually, but worth collectively $22 a month. If you asked me if SWG was worth playing, I would and have suggested to wait a few months first.
If you don't like it, don't play and don't pay. However, I did say that the changes are more complex and time consuming than people anticipate. This is more to stave off unreasonable demands (pre-CU servers, rollbacks, compensations, balance issues, complex new features in days time) than to suggest that we fund the effort if we aren't having fun.
This is basically what I have done. I cancelled our whole family's accounts because frankly, this isn't what I have payed for and am willing to continue to pay for. Maybe down the road when they get it all worked out, yeah, but right now. No. The recently Smedly post is basically an admission that they haven't got it all worked out. In my opinion it is pre-beta and not worth subscription. I am so ticked that I even cancelled my station access. I'm playing CoH now, no its no SWG, but our toons on SWG are basic do overs, from the bottom. All that we had is flushed. My girls were CH and BEs. They had no interest in any of the other professions. I was exclusive crafter/merch/jedi/fs even if I wanted to respec to something else, my only option is start at the beginning. All crafters were locked into keeping their crafters as is, or start over. The game is a comic rendition of its former self, to rate it at 6.3 is fine from a new gamer experience, but for a vet, your missing a negative sign.
Try crafting 38000 wind harvester and gathering the millions of units of resources to master force sensitive crafting, just to have it tossed, and not be bitter. I dare you.
The foolishness of it all is that the whole combat piece and new experience could have been implemented without screwing up the professions. They could have easily layered the "starwarsy" professions as hybrids of the current classes. I think they'll get it worked out, but for me its, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. Shame on me.
I have played SWG continuously since the first week it was released, and I have cancelled my subsciption, effective today. I have never been so disappointed in something I loved. I made many friends, and will miss them terribly, but I cannot pay $14 a month for a chat room. They have changed the game to point that it is unrecognizable to me. My favorite classes, dancer, and image designer, have been reduced to an afterthought. The controls have completely changed, with no capability to return to the previous set, and combat is a joke. I'm so sad at these turn of events, but at least I got 2 years of great enjoyment from a game (I'm not counting anything since the CU). I guess that's more than most single player games, and I made some great friends that I hope to continue to maintain contact with. This is very sad day for me, but I'm looking forward to a similar experience in Roma Victor, which appears to be one of the few skill-based MMORPGs on the horizon.
I feel Mr. Hinman hit most of the nails on the head. The combat system is weak, crafting seems to be becoming an afterthought (and most of us are expecting to see NPC vendors any day now), the playerbase is shrinking almost to nothing on many servers, veterans have been hosed completely (especially those who either ground to Jedi or were in the process of doing it), etc. And the JtL free addition is almost criminal, especially for those of us who bought it when it came out, bought it again when we purchased RotW (it was included with that expansion) and now find it's free. Talk about being ripped off!
Though the graphics have retained their high quality, they are now almost static. The NGE removed almost all of the combat animations from the game, and those that remain run so fast that you can't see them, even if you DO take your eyes off the tiny little aiming cursor and crazy running mob for a split second. Gone are the elegant moves of the one-handed sabre weilding Jedi, or the Kung Fu TKA.
All in all, this is a very very sad excuse for a game now. They had a game full of depth, variety and involvement, complexity and unique ideas, and they've stripped ALL of that away and left a very bad shooter in its place. I'm not sure who that "veteran focus group" was. Certainly wasn't any of the 2-year vets I know (myself included). But this is now a very sad experience, and I urge new players to try a different MMO. SWG isn't what it used to be by a longshot, and the SOE/LA relationship with their customers is as bad as it can get. Just say no to SWG. It won't hold your interest, even for Star Wars fanatics.
-- Xix "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
All I can say is that Casey Keefe has actually not even seen the game that he is talking about, with a line like " improved character and profession development" it certainly isn't the NGE!
They have taken 32 class paths with a varied mix and match approach and now locked you into a clone of 1 of 9 professions. A profession mind you that only really has 2 or 3 abilities which are repeated all the way through the 80 levels with slightly varied names. There is absolutely no chance of real development, except following the pre-destined path that SOE/LA force you to take.
How the hell can you have the balls to state that the new prof system is improved when it is compared to the old pre-NGE prof system with it's myriad of choices?
Comments
Sony are the macdonalds of the mmorg and Star Wars Galaxies is when the salads went on sale. Not that tasty but better than any other crap Sony have made!
Nothing wrong with the graphics. However all sony games are for under 12....with teen ratings lol.
I wish I had got into STG a long time ago as it would have been my first mmorg experience.
The SWG is the most spoiled playerbase of any MMORPG out there. I'm not sure including them in on the plans would work any better, if not being a generally bad idea. When they see the changes, they'll complain and demand other changes - and when the changes go through anyway, they'll get even more upset. I believe it is best to take away any illusion of input on this matter. SOE can listen later, but right now, they have higher priorities.
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I have to take issue.....swg are not spoiled, they are fans of what was a brilliant and completely unique experience......Go to the top of this page...click on "game list" ....then sort by genre.....of the listed sci-fi mmo,s just look at the screen shots....SWG was unique. the fans of star wars don't like the 1 billion fantasy clones with trolls and elves....we think that content is boring....you insult the ppl for in fact growing up with star wars since childhood and having a true loyalty to this game because this is what we saw on the movies....and we think it was plenty "star warsy" beforehand.....And hell ya some ppl tied their self image to it! You know as well as I that some ppl live their entire existence in here.....let me share an example of just one....
A dear friend of mine....who was going to die.....pretty much unable to do anything but lay around because she was weak and in pain.....often times suicidal......when I met and got to know her i learned then that MMO's don't fit your regular "game" category......It was then I opened my eyes to the fact that she wanted to escape into that world....as much as she could....becuase in her's, it was about to end......ppl aren't spoiled....."they need to get a life." might be what you say, I'd say you then lack the fact that this is how it is in an MMO situation......I KNOW they live in every other MMO too....they are the ones who need this more than any of us....don't call them spoiled, it's just way to generalized a statement....by that argument, you could say that about any product, an automobile for example could be lumped into that category because ppl are too dependent on it for transportation? u see? it's the same argument if u use such a broad based stroke.
We all know that wasn't the intention of the game creators.....we know it....but dang, what a compliment to them? (I know if I invented the game and saw ppl living there...I'd realize that it was bigger than me and be humbled, not insensed to it)....it was the ones "living" there that helped me learn how to play the game....they were the ones with "helper" above their names...it was how they contributed to society...THEIR society...../sigh.....no good can come of the nge.
faxx of bria (p.s. what once was 200 ppl in theed is now less than 15 even if u include the cantina...that was BRIA I said.....the MOST populated server)
actually the profession system is not improved, it has been dumbed down. there are no skill choices at all, merly the choice of limited iconic professions at the beginning, and once you choose the profession you don't get to choose the order you learn the skills. no one really understand why they did what they did with the NGE, considering they had what many considered the best game out here pre-cu, and even after the cu the game still maintained enough of the original qualities to keep it afloat.
as to the discussion of jedi in game which in my opinion is the reason the game is constantly being changed i will say this..... Jedi MUST be in game for the game to really be starwars. for it to be realistic starwars the jedi must be limited to a small number. this means that only a limited number of players will be able to unlock the jedi profession. by doing this you maintain the starwars feel and "mystyk" of the jedi, while not having an over-population. pvp and combat is then more balanced for the other profs to participate as well. what we saw happen was an overpopulation of jedi becuase the developers did not limit the number of jedi possible and as a result....a large portion of the players wanted to unlock their jedi. this lead to the majority of pvp being done by jedi while everyone els just kinda sat on the sidelines with excpetions of course.
the argument is that players will not want to play the game if they don't have a chance to become jedi, however i beleive the type of player who likes the complexities that a pre-cu world offered would also understand why it is important for realism to limit the jedi number in some way. the organization of the game would have to allow for some jedi to be moved out and others moved in....an that would be left up to the creative forces that be. an example of one solution would be to have a kill count that jedi are allowed before they lose their jedi slot, at which time they must create a new character. what makes this option viable is that it is realistic in a virtual world setting.
the virtual world component is the other problem soe has with the current game. a pre-cu starwars was really a virtual world, where one actually lived in the starwars times. it was extremly complex and that is what made it so addicting. i belive swg was really ahead of it's time with this virtual world, which was greatly reduced by the combat upgrade last winter, and totally destroyed by the current NGE.
in conclusion i feel strongly that the pre-cu starwars galaxies was by far the best game i have ever played, as it was literally like stepping into the starwars world and makingyour way. the only problem...which turned out to be the problem that would eventually take the game to where it is today...was that the devs needed to be equally creative with how the jedi would be managed. had the devs been able to be as ground breaking with the jedi management as they were with the rest of the world, the game would be truely a thing to behold....
MS.
Wow is all I can say about this.
I just have a few general comments to add here. Mostly in regards to Squidie's defense of the programmers for taking this "essential" step to saving the game.
First, we're not upset with the programmers. They aren't the ones who have the power to make these broad, sweeping changes to a games base. We understand that it's the company executives who decide what direction a game is going to take; having worked for a few software developers myself I know full well that what is needed is often ignored to fulfill the desires of a "creative director" somewhere who's sole job is to figure out why numbers are going down or take credit if numbers go up. Some are great, some aren't, and I think SWG is just having one of the latter sort at the helm right now...
What software companies need to realize is that we're consumers, not assets. While we have an attachment, we'll put up with a certaint amount of frustration, so long as we feel like changes are being made to improve a gaming experience. But ultimately, we vote with our wallets. The fact that the game has been floundering for years has less to do with the game being not "star warsy" enough than that the developers made a fundamental business decision to constantly push new expansions through rather than correct bugs and balance the basic premises of the game. The not being Star Warsy argument is pure bull btw, as someone who's grown up with the movies, has read and owns 40 of the books, and runs a star wars rpg group I consider myself a minor authority. But then again, I have a job and can afford to play these games, which apparently means I'm not the "core audience" SWG is looking for these days. SWG has been from the start an incredibly bold stab at making a fully realized gaming universe that has been hampered primarily by bugs that the developers could not fix, either for some technical reason they never admitted or due to the desire to push out new pay content. I have no problem buying pay content for a game, but they fact they let some basic bugs in starter professions sit for almost two years before addressing is why they lost their initial player base.
I'll admit, I was one of those "goobers" who hated the CU and simply turned to the non combat classes after it came out. I fully understand the new SWG answer to everything, that "content may change during play." We're not stupid, we know this. What we didn't expect was for them to literally remove everything that was different, interesting, and appealing about the game to make it into a generic fps. The combat upgrade was a bad idea fueled by forum rats (and btw, if you use the term "care bear" at any point, you don't need to ask, you're a forum rat.) It was made mildly tolerable by the new expansion of ROTW and the promises by every spokesman of SWG that they were now focusing on balancing the professions and fixing the years-old bugs so many had. We put out our money so they could pay people to do just that, and LA lied to us about how that money was being spent. I state lie because they DID clearly state they were dealing with correcting the classes and went so far as to officially post schedules as to what was being fixed in what order. Then, they deleted the classes entirely. When a company states they are doing one thing with their revenue and instead spend that money on something else entirely and never delivers the product (in this case, the corrections) they promised, that is fraud. That's an actionable charge legally, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this ends up being the first consumer vs gaming company lawsuit.
It was a stupid, stupid decision. It would have been one thing to be public about cancelling those promised corrections to the professions and stated they were ending the initial SWG gamestyle, classes, and content entirely (and whatever you state, when my partners Master BH/CH no longer exists, you can NOT state this is a "significant change that still runs on the same engine and therefore is still the same game") and deal with the obvious and loud criticism they wholeheartedly deserve. It was another thing to lie to the consumers and then pop out in the manner they decided to.
After playing NGE for about two weeks i cant but agree. The game is still absolutely barren of any high end content and it has so many bugs right now its ridiculous.
I really dont understand where SOE is hoping to go with this. The server populations are near comatose, i have never seen the servers so empty during the 21 months ive played swg. Oh well, maybe they will get their act together in the future, but right now the game isnt worth anyones attention.
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I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
I can't say whether the current population welcomes the NGE, nor could I say that they don't. However, the people who aren't the current population have nothing to lose by the NGE and everything to gain.
If you don't like it, don't play and don't pay. However, I did say that the changes are more complex and time consuming than people anticipate. This is more to stave off unreasonable demands (pre-CU servers, rollbacks, compensations, balance issues, complex new features in days time) than to suggest that we fund the effort if we aren't having fun.
I believe this decisions seems like LucasArts or the management at SOE were looking at SWG as a failure and came up with criteria to fix it, but it was up to the individual teams to come up with the implementation. Different parts of the NGE feel like different design philosophies. The 9 "iconic" professions seems like it came from on high, but the combat seems like it was created by someone who loved SWG and wanted to make it better. I don't think there's anyone to blame for the whole NGE except for the old SWG not living up to the expectations of the developers, players, and suits.
And what consumers need to realize is that they are consumers and not gods. It's sad to say, but you are replacable. If I lose three players but gain nine, then I made a good marketing decision. If I make design decision which offends three players but makes the game more enjoyable for nine, I made a good design decision. Your personal interests factor so little into either process, that walking up to their front door with a list of demands is a tad bit silly. They've done studies and interestingly enough, you'll put up with the frustration of what you know to suck rather than take a chance on a change that might suck. Ironically, and this is true, you'll put up with MORE frustration with the devil you know than deal with change. I forget what book I read this in (I believe it was a business book, but it could've been a design book), but I do know that Machiavelli says practically the same thing in The Prince. Kind of makes you wonder why people stay subscribed but keep complaining loudly about the NGE, doesn't it? I've been reading the SWG forums since launch, and I can say that is a false statement. Early on, they asked what people would do to improve the game, and the things that came up most frequently was new content, bug fixes, and more Star Warsy. This was even before JtL came out; folks were suggesting that ships would contribute to the Star Warsy feel. Back when the battlefields were still in the game. This is an OLD complaint, I kid you not. Bug fixes are maintenence. They don't bring in new players and they don't keep old players except in extreme situations. Content and Star Warsy feel have always been on the top of the want list for SWG. SWG sold 1.5 million copies, but retained only 250,000 subscribers (most of which had multiple accounts, meaning the number of warm bodies is significantly lower). The core audience are the people who bought the game, not the few still playing it. Don't blame expansions. They are done by a different team than bug fixes and feature changes that is funded with different money that comes from that pay content - of which, I should point out, is entirely optional. Expansions are part of running a MMORPG, and you can't cry foul when everybody is doing it and they aren't all facing the same troubles as SWG was/is. It is hardly a generic FPS. You've still got skills, levels, and quests like any other MMORPG. If anything, the new combat system is exactly the different, interesting, and appealing aspect of a game that you'd be praising if you liked the NGE. The profession changes didn't affect the game that much - yeah, you can't change later, but they combined classes rather than strictly removing them. If you were already a merchant/artisan/shipwright/architect, you haven't lost or gained anything (even the decay change wouldn't affect you much). Likewise, combat classes were stupid - you can use a pistol but not a carbine? Roll all that crap up and just let people choose the classes with actual gameplay differences.As for the different, interesting,a nd appealing aspects of the game, last I checked, SWG was still the only MMORPG with a ground and space game and the ability to create player towns and plop down structures anywhere in the wild. It has changed, but ultimately, not for better or for worse. It was a lateral move.
I would like you to back up that statement with proof. I don't recall them ever explicitly saying how the money was being used. They may have stated intentions, but nothing to do with money or even how the entire development teams are organized or spend their time. I believe your accusation is itself a lie. If you can back up your statement, perhaps. But a spurious charge based on hearsay and speculation won't get you very far. In Smedley's last post, he mentioned that managing creatures will make it back into the game as part of one of the 9 classes, as soon as the team can figure out a way for it to work within the new system.I really dont understand why they have to change a game that has many proffesions, massive things to do into a game in which you choose a proffesion and be stuck with it... This whole thing has nothing to do with making it more like starwars...
Dont know how many people here play or have played SWG, but last I was online it was mostly deserted...
Pity since I loved the game, but if you ruin a good working game be prepared for many ppl leaving...
=> Horizons : Empire of Istaria <=
Rvlion, Dralion, Sslion. (Retired due to bad management and service of GN)
=> Star Wars Galaxies <=
Dralion the Human (Cancelled 2 hours after playing the "improved game")
As a veteran subscriber to SWG (and also a longtime MMORPG gamer), I think giving the NGE a 6.3 is WAY too generous--they have absolutely ruined this game. The guys at SOE and Lucas need to have their buns rewired or something. This is the post I wrote on the SWG Forums about it:
In 1985, after 99 years with essentially the same taste, Coca-Cola decided to switch to a new, high-fructose corn syrmp, to make Coke taste sweeter and smoother--more like its arch rival, Pepsi. This historic decision was preceded by a top-secret $4 million survey of 190,000 people, in which the new formula beat the old by 55 percent to 45 percent. What Coca-cola apparently neglected to take into account was that many of the 45 percent who preferred old Coke did so passionately. The 55 percent who voted for new Coke might have been able to live with the old formula, but many on the other side swore that they could not stomach new Coke. The event proved to be both disasterous and embarrasing to Coke, and they had to eventually retract their plan and re-issue Coke Classic in the wake of massive protests and defections. The event now lives in the annals of 'What Not To Do' in MBA schools throughout the world.
What Julio Torres and his team are probably beginning to realize is that they have done EXACTLY the same thing to Star Wars Galaxies. Yes, focus group testing might suggest that the New SWG is better than the Classic SWG, but try and tell that to a Creature Handler who just lost all of his or her beloved pets. Nevermind the fact that the release of TOW just before the announcement of these wholesale changes really is fraudulent--the frustration that so many of us in the Star Wars Community feel is that we have been outright betrayed, and they are taking away our Coke to give us new-and-improved-Coke...which no one but the makers wants."
Man you hit it on the head.
I have to pass on this little bit of information to all the Star Wars Galaxy fans. I too am a Pre-NGE Jedi that spent hours and hours grinding and working toward unlocking that sacred proffession only to be dissappointed when it was given out to anyone on the 22nd. Not a big deal. I have cancelled 5 accounts to include my 10 year old son who has been playing next to me for the past 2 years. He was an Icon in our guild always ready to help, and you couldnt tell him from the next player. The social interaction he had with adults I believe has made him a more intelligent young man. and to the Players of MSNR and the Valcyn server I thank you. on a sad note he doesnt think that SWG is fun anymore and literally cried first 2 days it was out so we're playing World of War craft now and enjoying it very much....
I have to say I thought JUST for grins I'd see the load on the servers when you try to create a new toon. and I'll be darned if 95% of them weren't LIGHT....maintaining customer base? I sure hope they didn't take out a GREAT big corporate loan on this expenditure. anyway...nough rambling...
Mr Rob VERY VERY well put article I commend you on your opinions of the game as I would say reflect the opinions of a large majority of SWG Vets.
Agree with you 100%. I also played on Tarquinas from Oct. '03 took a break just before the CU, then came back after the CU for a couple months and then gave up. I couldn't believe when I heard about the NGE being released a week after ToOW...old school swg was immersive, challenging and we had a really good community on Tarq. It was a ghost town right after the CU hit, but picked back up some. My IGN was Imed Rary, what was your toon's name?
NGE make me try it back, and I love it ...
I leave swg many time, The CU was a Damn shit
Now the game feel like SW ...
Many people left ... yeah, but I know even more who are coming back. For the roleplaying. I've only roleplayed since i'm back, and, to help the current flow of Jedi, (roleplaying aspect) we are trying to make a new Jedi order.
SWG got a DAMN lot of bug .. true ... weapon doesn't matter for dmg .. it's only the look. But, at least, their some chance of improvement
First, sorry for getting your name wrong Squidi. It was not intended as an insult.
I'm not going to go into too much here as of course, I've stated my thoughts and you've stated yours and I have no desire to engage in a flame war. I will say that you're quite right though on the concept that if changing a game nets more new players than the ones they loose they win. I just...well, apparently there's not a single media source that seems to see this run as the salvation of the game. And saying as I can now honestly say I know not a single person, online or IRL who has not cancelled their game accounts in the last few weeks I have my own personal doubts as to whether or not they've made the wiser decision. And again, I think a lot of that is due to the very selective process used for their test group.
You wanted a bit of the reference to the planned changes we were given as players of the game.
http://www.station.sony.com/newsletters/swg/newsletter_01_05.html
I couldn't find the link I was initially looking for; it was an Oct-November 2004 post regarding development plans after JTL starting with the CU and listing a Smuggler/BH revamp, a Ranger revamp, and an Entertainer revamp and actual timeframes for each. I also considered posting the December 2004 post welcoming the new staff at SWG who were going to be dedicated to working exclusively on current game content to take the strain off of the developers who were trying to do both the debugging and content at the time. There were at some point countless posts, but either when they remodelled the forums earlier this year or when they "archived" the forums it's been lost from my archives. So I'll leave this as my main evidence. Those of us who've played the game will sadly have to deal with others arguing we're making up the months of statements by the devs.
I frankly don't want to argue about this, though, there's no point. I, as apparently many of the other posters, have already voted with our pocketbooks. I've moved to playing COV/WOW in the meantime, and look forward to other, less convoluted game policies with other companies. As I've said before, I feel fairly certaint this will be my last LucasArts game.
While I agree that there is NO end game content for players in SWG I really don't think it would have stopped the Jedi grind. Can you honestly say that people wouldn't have continued to grind jedi even with tons of content? Of course they would have. There is a NEED to be a jedi. It doesn't matter if Jedi sucks people will still do what ever it takes to be one. After giving this strange compulsion some thought there really is only one answer to this problem and it's NOT taking Jedi out of the game. I can see no other way for a SW MMORPG to exsist other than the way I stated in my previous post. Make some where between 7-10 different classes of Jedi that people can pick from. It is the only way to move past the jedi problem and start working on content and bug fixes. This way everyone has a jedi that will serve a purpose and fill a niche. As much as it kind of sucks having a WoW clone seems to be the only fix.
This is basically what I have done. I cancelled our whole family's accounts because frankly, this isn't what I have payed for and am willing to continue to pay for. Maybe down the road when they get it all worked out, yeah, but right now. No. The recently Smedly post is basically an admission that they haven't got it all worked out. In my opinion it is pre-beta and not worth subscription. I am so ticked that I even cancelled my station access. I'm playing CoH now, no its no SWG, but our toons on SWG are basic do overs, from the bottom. All that we had is flushed. My girls were CH and BEs. They had no interest in any of the other professions. I was exclusive crafter/merch/jedi/fs even if I wanted to respec to something else, my only option is start at the beginning. All crafters were locked into keeping their crafters as is, or start over. The game is a comic rendition of its former self, to rate it at 6.3 is fine from a new gamer experience, but for a vet, your missing a negative sign.
Try crafting 38000 wind harvester and gathering the millions of units of resources to master force sensitive crafting, just to have it tossed, and not be bitter. I dare you.
The foolishness of it all is that the whole combat piece and new experience could have been implemented without screwing up the professions. They could have easily layered the "starwarsy" professions as hybrids of the current classes. I think they'll get it worked out, but for me its, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. Shame on me.
I have played SWG continuously since the first week it was released, and I have cancelled my subsciption, effective today. I have never been so disappointed in something I loved. I made many friends, and will miss them terribly, but I cannot pay $14 a month for a chat room. They have changed the game to point that it is unrecognizable to me. My favorite classes, dancer, and image designer, have been reduced to an afterthought. The controls have completely changed, with no capability to return to the previous set, and combat is a joke. I'm so sad at these turn of events, but at least I got 2 years of great enjoyment from a game (I'm not counting anything since the CU). I guess that's more than most single player games, and I made some great friends that I hope to continue to maintain contact with. This is very sad day for me, but I'm looking forward to a similar experience in Roma Victor, which appears to be one of the few skill-based MMORPGs on the horizon.
I feel Mr. Hinman hit most of the nails on the head. The combat system is weak, crafting seems to be becoming an afterthought (and most of us are expecting to see NPC vendors any day now), the playerbase is shrinking almost to nothing on many servers, veterans have been hosed completely (especially those who either ground to Jedi or were in the process of doing it), etc. And the JtL free addition is almost criminal, especially for those of us who bought it when it came out, bought it again when we purchased RotW (it was included with that expansion) and now find it's free. Talk about being ripped off!
Though the graphics have retained their high quality, they are now almost static. The NGE removed almost all of the combat animations from the game, and those that remain run so fast that you can't see them, even if you DO take your eyes off the tiny little aiming cursor and crazy running mob for a split second. Gone are the elegant moves of the one-handed sabre weilding Jedi, or the Kung Fu TKA.
All in all, this is a very very sad excuse for a game now. They had a game full of depth, variety and involvement, complexity and unique ideas, and they've stripped ALL of that away and left a very bad shooter in its place. I'm not sure who that "veteran focus group" was. Certainly wasn't any of the 2-year vets I know (myself included). But this is now a very sad experience, and I urge new players to try a different MMO. SWG isn't what it used to be by a longshot, and the SOE/LA relationship with their customers is as bad as it can get. Just say no to SWG. It won't hold your interest, even for Star Wars fanatics.
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
All I can say is that Casey Keefe has actually not even seen the game that he is talking about, with a line like " improved character and profession development" it certainly isn't the NGE!
They have taken 32 class paths with a varied mix and match approach and now locked you into a clone of 1 of 9 professions. A profession mind you that only really has 2 or 3 abilities which are repeated all the way through the 80 levels with slightly varied names. There is absolutely no chance of real development, except following the pre-destined path that SOE/LA force you to take.
How the hell can you have the balls to state that the new prof system is improved when it is compared to the old pre-NGE prof system with it's myriad of choices?