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Perma death
royals
Member Posts: 27
So what do you think of it?
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Comments
I love the concept. You can choose to have perma death or not, it appeals to both the real hardcore player and the not so hardcore player (note I didn't say casual player because judging by the features of the game this game really isn't going to appeal to a casual gamer in my opinion). Not many games now a days are seriously trying to break the PvP mold of current MMORPGs, but TC is definitely trying, and based on the features, they are doing a damn good job. It's time for a change, we don't need to see the same EQ clone every time in a new format, I want to see something different, and perma death is one of those features that helps deter from EQ clones.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I am really having mixed feelings about the main/regular division. First of all, what player you know, casual or otherwise, would want to play a character from day one that they know will always be second class? The only thing that keeps casual players playing, as far as I can tell, is the delusion that they may some day be as well-off in the game as the hardcore players, if they just keep plugging along at it. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, from my point of view, there are already signs that people who intend to play "mains" look down on and have some level of disrespect or outright contempt for people who would play "regular" characters. If I wanted to be treated like crap for no particular reason, I'd go visit my in-laws.
I am one of the pre-order folks, and I will be playing sooner or later. I will also be working, attending school full-time, and taking care of 6 kids. I play games maybe 5-10 hours a week. It would frustrate the living crap out of me if I were on for my one or two hours a night, pecking away at some kind of progress, only to have some buttmonkey come along and perma-kill me just because he can. (And don't say that people won't be like that in this game, because there's one truth about mmo games of every sort-- if it can be done, people will do it.) On the other hand, I don't want my fellow players rolling their eyes at me because I chose just to be a "regular", either.
Yeah, yeah, risk vs. reward. If the reward gap is too large, it may just be enough to drive away a lot of people who might otherwise enjoy exploring the other features that TC may have to offer. Some of you will say, "Fine! We don't need those stupid carebears in our game anyway!" But that doesn't hurt the folks who would have played regular characters-- we'll just find something else to play, and you won't have us to kick around. But that ain't much of a business plan, is it?
(EDIT: I might add that I think they are doing things OTHER than the permadeath thing that are interesting, and I even thought the permadeath thing was a good idea to start with. I still think it is a good idea. I just don't know if a split system is the way to go, or if it would be better to segregate into separate servers. I guess my main objection is that there's nothing to lose from killing a nobody-nothing character like I will most likely play-- without any fame and not much prospect to gain any, where's the incentive to NOT kill me? In every game I have ever played, people get to know each other by the time they reach higher levels, and even with a populated game, there are going to be a number of people who notice your playing habits or lack thereof. Anyway, I don't think I will ever regret pre-ordering, even if it doesn't work out for me personally-- it was worth $20 to show support for a skill-based system alone.)
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
If you so insecure about being teased for playing a character in a game then Ive just gotta ask, Why even play games.
TC is a pvping game. The use of mains is by choice alone. If you don't care for the risk then don't play one. This will not change.
Sounds to me like you have a inferiority complex. Id suggest seeing a shrink. If you feel offended then ask your self why you put your personal insecuritys and personal business out on front street to be judged.
Dude your a marshmellow. Go spend time with your 6 kids.
FoE Fist of the Empire
That's not a very nice thing to say to her Wardrop. She's been an avid member of the community since I can remember...
Keep in mind, visually, you will not be able to tell the difference between mains and regulars.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Sure she has. Without question, but the fact remains the same And her post is very debatable more so since by design TC is a twitch based Pvping title.
As for insult, I guess I'm the butt monkeys shes referring too since i do play KOS/pk toons quite a bit.
CG you cant hold every gamers hand. You only have two.
FoE Fist of the Empire
On the contrary, you won't see any of our GMs come back at you. We have other, ingame, means of handling situations. Ways that will give a very good player, a fighting chance.
Oh, and the working faction system helps. While you can't get in good with everybody, it's completely possible to piss everybody off.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
On the contrary, you won't see any of our GMs come back at you. We have other, ingame, means of handling situations. Ways that will give a very good player, a fighting chance.
Oh, and the working faction system helps. While you can't get in good with everybody, it's completely possible to piss everybody off.
Lol your second point bothers me the most, and id like a little more of a explanation on just how a GM is going to use in game means to deal with me owning someone Ive decided just has to die. What business is it of a gm how my guild pvps?
As for faction, yes it will stop the normal dude from pking a lowbie maybe. I personally like to kill higher lvl players since lowbies are no challenge and do nothing to satisfy my pvping cravings. I kill for the rush as most old school pk's do. Only kiddies mess with lowbies mate everyone knows that, at least the old school pvpers do.
Since i don't talk to my stalked prey at all, i couldn't care less on how they feel about my toons since i usually play evil toons when i pk. I also play crafting, helpful, social toons. You cant always be a heartless bastage hunter. You'll get burned out. Sometimes you wanna piss people off, especially guilds that you plan on warring with constantly. If i remember correctly CG, on my very second post over at MMOcenter you frankly told me you were going to pk me. You and yours will have your chance, Constantly.
As for the first point id sure like to know what type of system this is that a higher lvl player will get stomped by a lowbies. I think a lowbie shouldn't put them selves in a position to be killed if they cant handle it yet.
Last but not least if a gamer cant handle being killed in a Pvping title emotionally then the should not be playing one. Pvping is not for the soft hearted.
Edited to add
Theres not a damn thing wrong with me suggesting that she spend more time with her kids, it is Thanksgiving after all.
FoE Fist of the Empire
My 2nd paragraph explanation:
I wrote about it on the Forums, I'm sure about it. But I'll compare it to something very familiar:
Remember in The Matrix, the system tried to balance itself? Neo was so insanely uber powerful and could defeat anything that was thrown at him... so Agent Smith was an anomoly created to balance the equation.
Same concept. If you PK or PvP enough, the system will view you as such. There's different levels of it though. There's a HUGE difference between PvPing and chasing the same person day in and day out because they got your loot or something.
More importantly, since the system is designed to handle the game as a PvP centric game, you can actually PK yourself into Exile... but remember, there's definately a difference between griefing and PK/PvP.
So, when the system balances the equation for a griefer, he'll still have a fighting chance of succeeding and not loosing a thing. You might get an angry mob of NPCs carrying torches or pitchforks... and they're there, only looking for you. You can defeat them, but you'll have to work at it.
A quest might appear for other players... to put a stop to your evil deeds. Or a bounty on your head, and signs posted everywhere... PvP questing is another wonderful feature.
PvP will be very Open. But a working Faction and Empire System and advanced Artificial Intellegence will fix things automatically. Of course, your guild's Factional Standing will be effected by each Members actions, so you'll always be welcome in your Guild's City... unless you don't build 1, in which case you'll be missing out in Sieging.
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Thats why i think your a excellent CM. Nice in depth explanation
And maybe i was a bit brash toward neschria. i reread her post a few times and smoked a cig now i gotta ante up, Shes not a marshmallow. Just concerned,so she doesn't need a shrink just someone to lend a ear to her thoughts.
So let me publicly apologize to her for being a dick about her post.
FoE Fist of the Empire
its going to be hard to be a pk really. if you really want to pk the powerful players, you will have to be playing a main. all it takes is one person to be stronger than you and your starting over.
Normally I love the concept of permanent death but always hate the implamentation of a system but I really think RR has come up with a great idea with the Normal and Hero character definitions. For myself I think that feature, above many others, is what raised my interest in The Chronicle.
That being said, if they changed directions and or fouled up the system, they wouldn't be the first MMO company to let a growing fanbase down, so I'll wait and see how well the system is instilled until I reserve a hardline oppinion on The Chronicle's perma death policy.
I think this is the point which possible fans start to cross their fingers
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Important Information regarding Posting and You
fulmanfu and Shae,
You guys coming over to The Chronicle? I really hope so. Would be nice to see some familiar faces over there. If you are looking for a guild, perhaps Unknown Origin would be a good place for you guys *wink wink*.
Hop on over to the boards and say hi www.mmocenter.com/v2
I would LOVE to see more MMORPG.COM members join our ranks. This invitation is open to any board members here (with a couple of exceptions lol)...I was just directing this at ful and shae because i've seen them here for some time.
Back on topic:
Permadeath is just the kind of feature to shake things up for me. As an avid MMO player for the past 9 years, I've grown tired of the generic formula that these games all seem to share. TC wants to break the mold of the current EQ clone games (which is a welcome change for someone that played EQ1 for 3 years).
Can you imagine how intense a Main fight would be? All the time you've invested in that character...could be gone in an instant. On the other hand, if you win, you make someone else cry like a baby.
I'm just burnt on current MMOs. They may be packaged differently, but they are all pretty much the same game. Don't let me down TC.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
permadeath won't be bad at all since it's only your main. i plan to play as my main a lot and it will die and i'll just keep making new ones. the key for me is that i'm not going to get emotionally attached to my main. it's cannon fodder as far as im concerned. my mains will even have dorky names because i won't waste any cool names on it.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
I for one plan on playing a Main as my Main, heheh. I think people playing mains is going to induce a roleplaying frenzy. Politics are going to play a much greater roll in the game as apposed to others, because your ass is REALLY on the line in TC.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
hehe.. nice thought!
make your main a tree! i dont want to be the only one
we can be called leaf and bark. ill recruit someone to be trunk.
anyway yeah remy i will be trying the chronicle, preordered a few months back already not real active on the forums or anyting yet. i will check out your guildpage later on i been meaning to anyway just havnt got around to it.
oh yeah and ill be playing a main too, im a alt-aholic anyway must have had over 30 chars in WoW so rerolling comes natural.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
[quote]Originally posted by fulmanfu
hehe.. nice thought!
make your main a tree! i dont want to be the only one
we can be called leaf and bark. ill recruit someone to be trunk.
[/b][/quote]
sounds like a plan
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
You don't need to tell me what kind of game TC is. I preordered the first weekend and was the 22nd person to sign up on their forums. But I doubt that you'd have replied to me at all if you follow my posts here and at mmocenter. Sometimes I just get feisty and post something contrary, particularly when I see people who are bound to come frothing over about it. I figure most people at this point know that I am a troublemaker.
You seem to be the one overreacting to my comments. I didn't call anyone names, and I didn't say anything against the game generally. I've got a hell of a thick skin. I even played UO before Weenieland... er, Trammel... was added. Back when people would kill you and emote obscene things over your corpse. I got PKed, and I did my share too.
Oh, and one more thing...
(A) Don't call me "dude". Call me "Your Majesty".
(B) I play with kids for 8+ hours a day. Three of my kids are teens and would be really annoyed if I spent more time with them than I insist on doing anyway, and occasionally I like do something that doesn't involve the other three kids and their constant "Mommymommymommy"ing. It turns out that parents are people too, and sometimes we need time off.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I am personally very interested in a game that attempts to create as much realism as possible. The notion of your character actually dieing and vanishing for good could actually help to push the game in the "roleplayers" favour. Many aspects of what this game intends to do also seem to lend itself more towards people who want a decent roleplaying adventure game rather than the usual boring old level-grinding, PvPing tripe that has become the mainstream.
Despite what Wardrop says, I dont see TC as a "twitch based PvP title" at all. Battlefield 2 fits into that category. Its a fantastic, fun game in which the main (and only) goal is to kill other players. You log online with the thought "I'm gonna whoop someones arse!" and its certainly satisfying when you do (and bloody irritating when it happens to you lol). However as good as that may be, I think this is exactly what TC is trying NOT to be. The ability to kill another player is not supposed to be the centre point of the game - its simply something that can happen as a result of you playing a character. It allows players to permanantly & realisticly effect & interact with the game world and the people in it. Its referred to as a PvP title because its possible for a player to kill a player. This doesnt mean that this is the object of the game.
For example, if you decide to go hunting deer in the woods and a local druid encounters you and dislikes what you are doing to the wildlife, she may try to stop you. Unlike in crappy EQ2 (in which you cant do anything) in this game the druid will be able to confront, fight and potentially kill the player who is endangering her oh-so-lovely deer.
Unfortunately the ability to PvP will always attract players like Wardrop. Its not that there is anything wrong with killing players for whatever reason you choose - afterall everyone is entitled to do what they like (its a game afterall). Its just that that kind of attitude is more suited to TRUE PvP games like Battlefield 2, SW Battlefront or World of Warcraft. I would hate to see The Chronicle become another game like WoW in which bands of players roam around looking for other players to kill.
I think what CG is trying to indicate is that this games system will attempt to reward people who try to act as their character would in real life (roleplayers/mature people/imaginative & creative types) and restrict players that try and treat the game as a killing field where their only goal in the game is to get a kick from wiping out another player for no reason other than "its fun pissing people off" (PKers/L33t dudes/Gankers/Young Children etc).
Hopefully with the way factions work, the more players a person kills the harder they will find it to survive in the game world. Eventually they will hardly be able to move anywhere in the world because their reputation for being a pointless, mass-murderer will be so widespread that every NPC will be out to get them. They will finally find themselves having to live out in the wilderness or in exclusively evil settlements where all the other Pkers will eventually end up (they can then run around "ganking" each other to their hearts content lol). This in itself will add to the excitement of the game because the PKers will become an additional threat that the proper players will have to deal with as well as the usual monsters when traveling outside of civilised areas. In this way the game will be able to give every player the exact kind of gaming experience they want - roleplayers can roleplay a character and interact with the world in a meaningful way, adding to the "story" of the game while the PKers will become the "evil villains" that hunt the players.
I've got high hopes for this game but I am keeping my skeptical hat on as I have yet to see a decent online rpg that hasnt been messed up with daft design decisions (EQ2) or ganking-L33t-dude-PKers (WoW). I noticed from reading the dev blogs that there seems to be an "anti PKer" flavour to them. Fingers crossed
Maybe permadeath in The Chronicle is great .. maybe not, who knows right now ? The success of features like permadeath strongly depends on the surrounding environment.
One point that cant be mentioned often enough is, that only other main characters can permakill main characters. If someone wants to kill you he will have to risk his own bit-life and all the time he spent playing his main.
If i also understood the main concept correct, those mains will be purpose characters in the first line (those that can kill other mains, those that can become guild leaders) and main characters wont only be more powerful then regulars, but also faster in "leveling". Alot of the playability in a permadeath environment will depend upon the evolution speed of main characters ( To slow: loosing a main maybe a major pain, people wont like to level yet another main , ... ; To fast : Dissapointment in pvp, since why should one kill another main anyways if it takes him only some "seconds" to get a new one, ..)
Some potential problems in the "ganking-abuse" corner i could see right now are people those hunt mains with alot of regular characters and one main, which only purpose will be to step out of the shadows if a main is down, kill him, and stay back again. Or regular characters attacking mains fighting mobs, just enough so the main will loose its pvm fight and gets permakilled by the mob.
Accountabilty and risk vs. reward have to be balanced well in a permadeath environment.
Half expected that to happen. First deleted post ever...
Anyhow crap aside it seems that RR is building a descent enough formula to address both sides of the pvping coin. So ATM its a wait and see situation. They are posting more and more info to the public regularly which is a good thing. An informed gamer is a happy gamer.
FoE Fist of the Empire
