is it really possible?

Tarsick

first off i have to say that everything i've read about this game is simply awesome.

but is it really possible for a company who is developing multiple MMO's to pull off everything they promise with The Chronicle?

from my experience it is a rarity for a MMO to release with every feature they wanted in game to be working as envisioned.. so im kinda a skeptic. there's so many MMO's coming out in 2006 and i would like to play one of em... The Chronicle seems to be the game for me, the graphics (usually very important to me) aren't the best but the list of features in this game is monumental. im incredibly interested in this game and if the developers are able to deliever on all the features they say are going to be in game then i believe The Chronicle will give all the other MMO's coming out in 06 (i think there are too many) a run for their money

i wish these guys the best of luck developing this game, if they pull it off it will raise the bar quite high in what is expected in an MMO

Farnahm

Yeah, I'd have to agree about the part of creating multiple MMORPGs at once while being a small company does kind of turn me off slightly... It kind of makes me suspicious about it, as if the only thing they were trying to prove was that it could be done (and rapidly). Yet even with this "rapid" creation of mmo games it was delayed like many others (for a better engine), but it was a delay nonetheless.

Companies promise a lot of things... a year ago Blizzard promised hero classes for World of Warcraft, yet I doubt any of us will see anything coming out like that for another year or more. It's one thing to aim high and come up with really interesting concepts and goals for the game, but it's another to deliver. We'll just have to wait and see how beta testing goes since it was delayed.

Part of me wonders if part of the beta delay also had to do with the fact that a lot of their promises weren't delivered yet and they weren't "rapid" enough to be ready for beta, using the new engine as a partial cover up....

All in all, if they deliver though, it should be a good game

Doren

I must admit, I am somewhat skeptical myself. Things like the EAI, the modular bluprint crafting system and dynamic spell creation seem too good to believe, especially from such a small company.

I think the plan is they are sacrificing cutting edge graphics quality and the most up-to-date revamped engine for real quality game play features using a decent graphics and game engine. But at the same time these are features that would really set their games apart, even if they can't fully implement all the bells and whistles. Once they have those basic meta game features then they can be modified for other settings so they can quickly design new games.

I'm not a programmer so I don't know how hard it is, but I asked a programming friend of mine what he thought and his assessment was that game logic and database features like that are not inherently difficult or costly to make, they just take knowing exactly what you want to do and a reasonable amount of knowledge of how to effectively implement it... So maybe it is possible?

I think too RR has admitted that they are not going to immediately have tons of content for their games but instead release each game with a playable framework and then devote more resources after release based on what the playerbase likes/dislikes. That’s not to say they are going to have an empty game since I think what the features they are creating really do is allow PLAYERS for the first time to create their own content, without waiting on the design team to make it for them before release.

They sound like they know what they want to do, the question is will they be able to pull off the core features (EAI, modular crafting, dynamic spell creation) that will make it work. Im crossing my fingers cus if they do it will be a killer game. even if they have to sacrifice a few of the peripheral game features, if they can nail those things I think they will have a hit.

shae

I think thats a fairly average reaction when you start looking into the chronicles and mmocentre, I think as mmo players we've been promised the moon and then some so many times and have been let down more often then not, we are naturally very cautious when it comes to the "to good to be true" games.

Personaly, I practise a "believe it when I see it" policy now with all upcomming games, especially MMO's. Sure The Chronicles sounds great and we can all hope that the people at RR have the best intentions but who knows really, the responsibility to impress lays squarly on their shoulders. Same goes of DnL or Spellborn for that matter, all games that promise alot but we've been fooled before.

darkman

You know Doren, if anything, I think it's easier to believe they are coming from a small company, when you have big companies like Blizzard or SOE, they are afraid of failure, and will not want to take a big gamble so they can fail spending $50+ million on a project. Where as you have a small independent company like Rapid Reality, with a small budget in mind for games, they have no where to look but up, and as a result, can take more risks in creating the game. As a result, you should see more innovation from companies like Rapid Reality.

I don't really see it as sacrificing cutting edge graphical quality either. The latest screenshots released (on the new aura engine) look pretty good I must say, sure they aren't the best in the world, but they are certainly not substandard. I'd say they are very good for today's generation.

It all boils down to seeing what is implemented and what is not. One thing is a guarantee: Their EAI will be in the game from the start. They have made it clear that EAI will be a fundamental staple in TC and other MMOCenter games, not having the feature in the game would pretty much take away the whole aspect of the game, so this feature will be in. Whether or not we see some of the more specific tailored features is a different story. Naturally during the beta period we'll probably be missing some features, but by release I think RR can get in at least 90% of those features in, then a couple months after release work in the rest. This all boils down to faith in the company, and while in the past most MMORPG companies haven't really given us much to believe in, RR seems different. We'll find out in Late January/Early February.

Rattrap

In a industry that fails 90% of promised features , that has 50% of vaporware , and 80% of false advertising.

And this has been proven again and again and again ......

I doubt Chronicle would be any good. Heck , i doubt it will ever come out. What I think that it is some kind of scam.

But hey! If it turns out to be good I would be super happy , and if it turns out to have all the promised features sure i will play it !

I just can not wipe the image from my mind of all the MXO fanbois. I remember there was a guy that was always answering any MXO topic with determination of a true beliver.... boy, he probably feels so stupid now.

So take your MMORPG in development with a grain of salt , or even a salt rock and you wont never be disapointed

bodkop

Even if every feature on the list will be implementend in retail, theres another problem:

From the developer point of view, all features may work as expected in retail.

From the playes point of view, most features wont be implemented at all.

A dev/company will always decorate its features in a positve direction, eg. using superlatives or peculated constrains. Players on the other hand see those features and amplify them by using their imagination. Theres no way to fill this gap.

Either way, mmorpgs are doomed to never live up to their expetations.

UnseelieCour

this game will have good graphics - that's the reason for the engine upgrade. we've yet to see any real material from this new engine, but the last material we saw from the old engine was beginning to look very impressive. you have have to look at the renders to see the potential of the graphics - something which will only be limited by the engine they use.

also, the whole dev team are pretty much artists. i believe they have one programmer who has been reduced to scripting. these features are not inherently difficult to implement, even for one guy scripting away. i speak from experience as i spend most of my time doing just that - scripting away

the modular crafting system should be easier to implement, in theory - simply because it is modular. anything modular is generally easier to do. modular for the end-user usually means modular for the programmer.

i'm assuming the AI generated quests will also be modular, so instead of scripting thousands upon thousands of linear quests you simply have to script hundreds of parts that can be joined together like lego.

and the engine doesn't just limit or release the potential of graphics, an upgraded engine will also help implement new features in the game. we've been told it can do everything the old engine could do, but more. so lets assume that they got all those features up and running and wanted to add some more - perhaps a new engine was the best way to go.

sakinah

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Originally posted by bodkop
Even if every feature on the list will be implementend in retail, theres another problem:
From the developer point of view, all features may work as expected in retail.
From the playes point of view, most features wont be implemented at all.
A dev/company will always decorate its features in a positve direction, eg. using superlatives or peculated constrains. Players on the other hand see those features and amplify them by using their imagination. Theres no way to fill this gap.
Either way, mmorpgs are doomed to never live up to their expetations.

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Amen! someone that understand human psycology ^-^y

It probably wont be as good as we would want it to be.but i just hope its as close as possible to my imagination.

Go! RR Go!

Grogg

From what I understand of TC and the basic MMOcenter design scheme is that all of their games will have the same core mechanics. So once they have TC up and running smoothly (or as smoothly as MMOs in general run), creating new games will go a lot faster. It will be a matter of creating the world and assets.

Or perhaps I'm over-simplifying it and I am way off base

I have already pre-ordered a membership and look forward to seeing what they do. Hck, if the company goes under and never releases a game (doubtful) it would have been worth the $20 to support the effort.

Best of luck RR!

Doren

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Originally posted by UnseelieCour

also, the whole dev team are pretty much artists. i believe they have one programmer who has been reduced to scripting. these features are not inherently difficult to implement, even for one guy scripting away. i speak from experience as i spend most of my time doing just that - scripting away
the modular crafting system should be easier to implement, in theory - simply because it is modular. anything modular is generally easier to do. modular for the end-user usually means modular for the programmer.
i'm assuming the AI generated quests will also be modular, so instead of scripting thousands upon thousands of linear quests you simply have to script hundreds of parts that can be joined together like lego.
and the engine doesn't just limit or release the potential of graphics, an upgraded engine will also help implement new features in the game. we've been told it can do everything the old engine could do, but more. so lets assume that they got all those features up and running and wanted to add some more - perhaps a new engine was the best way to go.

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Ya this is basically what my programming friend told me... once you get past the Engine proper then everything else is easy (or at least not difficult).

My question is, if it is so easy to make modular code (for the EAI, the Quests and the item creation) Why havent more MMOs done this? its seems like something almost all the consumers want, and if it is easier, cheaper and faster to do you would think it would make biz sense from the developers side of the equation... so what is the downside?

Or is it that big MMO companies just don't like to innovate and prefer to keep the user on the MMO amusement park model of "everything is static" so that they can more effectivly control the creation (and therefor $elling) of new content?

Whatever the case is, I appluad RR for taking this approach... make it modular and allow the creation of new content to come from the players!

Farnahm

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Originally posted by bodkop
Even if every feature on the list will be implementend in retail, theres another problem:
From the developer point of view, all features may work as expected in retail.
From the playes point of view, most features wont be implemented at all.
A dev/company will always decorate its features in a positve direction, eg. using superlatives or peculated constrains. Players on the other hand see those features and amplify them by using their imagination. Theres no way to fill this gap.
Either way, mmorpgs are doomed to never live up to their expetations.

---

Lol, I think that quote needs to be put up in every forum for every game in developement. Very interesting/accurate (or at least I believe so) understanding of the average MMO'er.

Especially the last part, my roommate and I might hear some feature and expand on it, like hearing about "main characters" we go on about how someday there might be huge battles and at the heads of the two rival armies there would be two uber leaders taking out people left and right (think LOTR first scene) and everyone ganging up to take him/her down. Although that is never really implied, we carry it beyond what was merely stated and bring our own wants and imaginations into it.

darkman

You're right bod, we'll probably never see EVERY single feature listed, even as a hopeless fanboy I have to agree with that. That being said though, doesn't mean that they can't release a good amount of features on the list. Sure there have been way too many empty promises from past companies before, the MMORPG industry is infamously known for that. But in a pile of bad apples there lies a good apple somewhere, let's hope RR is that good apple. You can remain a skeptic if you wish, and that's perfectly natural, but I'll have some faith in the company and see where it takes me.

Also about the EAI, the reason you don't see companies create it is because they've already spent a good 2+ years engine coding, by that time not only have they exerted a lot of resources, they're too far into the project, so if you try to implement a radical change like an EAI, you just might end up failing, and it costs a lot of money if you fail, A LOT more compared to RR. So as a result companies in the past don't want to risk it. It seems a few companies lately in the MMORPG sector are starting to break the mold, RedBalam in a way, The Chronicles of Spellborn (don't remember their team name), Rapid Reality, all trying to introduce new ideas into the world. And RR has it good because they are able to minimize game costs by liscensing a game engine instead of coding one. That helps reduce time and money on a project, so they can focus on other projects, hence the rapid development cycle.

Also there are 4 programmers, and they are all scripters. I've talked to a couple of them, they told me it's all scripting.

Doren

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Originally posted by darkman

Also there are 4 programmers, and they are all scripters. I've talked to a couple of them, they told me it's all scripting.

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Wait, so then is the EAI part of the scripting or is the EAI already done??? the way it is described on the site the EAI sounds like a seperate database/program of somesort that they will use on all their projects. I mean, I am sure that even if it is a seperate thing they have to script the "front end" if you will, but still...

help me out, Im not that tech savy.

shae

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Originally posted by Rattrap

In a industry that fails 90% of promised features , that has 50% of vaporware , and 80% of false advertising.

And this has been proven again and again and again ......
I doubt Chronicle would be any good. Heck , i doubt it will ever come out. What I think that it is some kind of scam.
But hey! If it turns out to be good I would be super happy , and if it turns out to have all the promised features sure i will play it !

I just can not wipe the image from my mind of all the MXO fanbois. I remember there was a guy that was always answering any MXO topic with determination of a true beliver.... boy, he probably feels so stupid now.
So take your MMORPG in development with a grain of salt , or even a salt rock and you wont never be disapointed

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I'm just cruious Rattrap, and I'm absolutely not trying to start a flamathon here, but what is your point with MxO.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's very sad what happened to that game, and what continues to happen for that matter, but I wouldn't consider it vaporware or any of the other things you stated.

I was appart of the beta team from from the first round and I can safely say that the dev's for that game worked their butt's off to get that game to work. Yes they absolutely made some huge mistakes but the people that were involved with that project were dedicated, it was a huge dissapointment to many many people when everything fell appart.

But anyways, I was just curious if you'd be willing to back up your comment with reasoning because I was little confused by what you meant.

Stedfast

Hmmm, human nature and expectations, so true.

L0k1-

wrong game -_-

CaesarsGhost

Edited to fit the edit.

L0k1-

oops editted post and removed ink

WadeJ

I think the graphics look brilliant and lifelike from my point of veiw, The new aura engine is great and the game promises many features.
All those other games on the site proberly arent being even partially made yet, I think i heard someone that only machines and The chronicle are the only ones being made for the time being.
If they can deliver what they promised (even i doubt this is hard because most mmorpgs never deliver what they promise) then there sure to have a winning game.
It does need alot more advertisement though.