Originally posted by kjfett Our complaining isn't putting their job on the line. Our complaining is a consequence of poor programming and vision on SOE's part. SOE's poor programming and lack of vision is why their jobs are on the line. You can be all apologetic and run away if you like. You are certianly welcome to do so, but don't try to put some guilt trip on those of us that are not pulling our tails between our legs and running. SOE slipped a dirty, bloody bandage in my desert of relaxation fun. I'll be damned if I'm not going to complain and demand their job on a platter for their bad ethics. No, I won't slip their bad works in a napkin so the other customers won't know, pay my bill and slip out the side door.
No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example. You probably consider yourself a mostly eithical person. "Most people think that being mostly ethical is fine as long as their not on the losing end of somoeone's elses lapse in ethics"(Covey, Ethics 101).
You have no clue if you truely believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical catagory. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practises? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a peice of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why. It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitest attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one that sees into all men's hearts and knows what they seek and find. It has been more like a flame war between those who like it and those who don't and then ofcourse your regular "I hate you flames to SOE."
You crack me up with your elitest attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truely are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truely learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Notice the quotation marks here -"You just did again you sorry piece of &^#$! %&# you and the horse you rode in on you worthless *&^%talkin *&#$!& I hate nOObz like your ^^^$#azz"
See? I made offensive posts (languagewise) like that and lots of other people did too, not just here I edited those, but at lucas arts website and the official forums about lots of things, do you think its right for me to do that to you or anyone else? No absolutley not.Or maybe I'm just a masterful troll...
-BTW stop riding my arse pls I'm asking nicely-
Ok, you edited your posts here at MMORPG.COM, and you posted your apology here at MMORPG.COM because---why? I see no reason for you to apologize here, you are simply confusing all of the participants of this forum since your apology has nothing to do with this website or this section of the forums... I think you are both grandstanding and trolling at the same time, given the remarks you made such as:
-"You just did again you sorry piece of &^#$! %&# you and the horse you rode in on you worthless *&^%talkin *&#$!& I hate nOObz like your ^^^$#azz"
I think trolling might just be your forte... Either that, or you are a emotional teenager... Again, either way you are looking rather foolish...
Ok Dis_Ordur whatever,if you dont get it now then you never will. Obviously your the one whos EMO here, I dunno what I did to tick you off , But your just proving what this whole thread is about, and thats not being able to say what you gotta say in a constructive-non flaming manner and let go. Your not winning any awards for all this and neither am I. The NGE is still there and your still not changing SOE/La's mind so quit the game if your still playing and unsatisfied and dont like it and let your little hurt feelings about the NGE go and move on.
K lets stop all this childish bickering now shall we?
If I'm to appologize to SOE for telling people how aweful their game is, they better start appologizing to me for charging me to play a buggy system that changed drastically two times with little compensation and for selling me an expansion that promised lots of great stuff only to become obsolete two weeks after release. :
Originally posted by kjfett Our complaining isn't putting their job on the line. Our complaining is a consequence of poor programming and vision on SOE's part. SOE's poor programming and lack of vision is why their jobs are on the line. You can be all apologetic and run away if you like. You are certainly welcome to do so, but don't try to put some guilt trip on those of us that are not pulling our tails between our legs and running. SOE slipped a dirty, bloody bandage in my desert of relaxation fun. I'll be damned if I'm not going to complain and demand their job on a platter for their bad ethics. No, I won't slip their bad works in a napkin so the other customers won't know, pay my bill and slip out the side door.
No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example. You probably consider yourself a mostly ethical person. "Most people think that being mostly ethical is fine as long as their not on the losing end of someone's elses lapse in ethics"(Covey, Ethics 101).
You have no clue if you truly believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical category. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practices? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a piece of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why. It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitist attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one that sees into all men's hearts and knows what they seek and find. It has been more like a flame war between those who like it and those who don't and then ofcourse your regular "I hate you flames to SOE."
You crack me up with your elitist attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truly are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truly learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Originally posted by GrimSkunk2 If I'm to appologize to SOE for telling people how aweful their game is, they better start appologizing to me for charging me to play a buggy system that changed drastically two times with little compensation and for selling me an expansion that promised lots of great stuff only to become obsolete two weeks after release. :
Subscriptions to this game are on a voluntary basis. So if you thought the game was buggy and crappy, and yet still payed a monthy fee for it, then that's your fault not theirs. You should have just quit the game and moved on.
Now your argument on the ToOW has been nullified by the fact that they offered a refund for that game. So what is your complaint again?
Originally posted by bugzonlsd Obviously your the one whos EMO here
...lol, I was called an EMO!!! ROFL!!! We have had topics about this in the OT forum, seriously, it is really funny that you called me that... I might just be more hip than I originally thought!!!!
Wow.. when I read this this morning, I thought it'd fall off the first page.
But I wanted to say this... especially after reading the posts
It is "Preaching to the CHOIR" not quire. There is no such word as quire. C-H-O-I-R.
As in the thought that the preacher got turned around and is not talking to the congregation, but the CHOIR.. the people who are already WITH him.
As for the rest of the post... I'd be happy if $OE went under and they all lost their jobs. Smedley especially. But they are ALL culpable for not saying in unison "This is crazy, we're going to drive everyone away"
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well yea, people are calm one minute and then pissed as hell , next thing you know thier happy, emotional rollercoasters are fuggin nuts. Sometimes its scary...good stable med-use some people really need.
Well I for one dont have an issue with the original poster and how he gave his opinion. He didnt insult people who had issue with the game, he just gave his view on the subject.
We're warning people, thats the flat out bottom line. I dont want SOE to steal another dime from another customer who just wants to have a good time and then lateron have that ruined for them. Spending thousands of hours building up a business and reputation, artifacts, items, etc and have all that work destroyed.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by GrimSkunk2 If I'm to appologize to SOE for telling people how aweful their game is, they better start appologizing to me for charging me to play a buggy system that changed drastically two times with little compensation and for selling me an expansion that promised lots of great stuff only to become obsolete two weeks after release. : Subscriptions to this game are on a voluntary basis. So if you thought the game was buggy and crappy, and yet still payed a monthy fee for it, then that's your fault not theirs. You should have just quit the game and moved on. Now your argument on the ToOW has been nullified by the fact that they offered a refund for that game. So what is your complaint again? Many...Are you asking for the full list or a summary?
Many have backed the product to this point and stayed partly because of hope, investment and to a large degree promises from SOE to fix and finish the product we supported and invested in and instead they sloppily mesh a different version over it more than once, with the last instance being paved in deceptive business practices. Ya not our fault there and we will move on if and when we wish (put that in your ethic pipe). All things you do are on a voluntary basis ..DER.
Originally posted by kjfett Our complaining isn't putting their job on the line. Our complaining is a consequence of poor programming and vision on SOE's part. SOE's poor programming and lack of vision is why their jobs are on the line. You can be all apologetic and run away if you like. You are certainly welcome to do so, but don't try to put some guilt trip on those of us that are not pulling our tails between our legs and running. SOE slipped a dirty, bloody bandage in my desert of relaxation fun. I'll be damned if I'm not going to complain and demand their job on a platter for their bad ethics. No, I won't slip their bad works in a napkin so the other customers won't know, pay my bill and slip out the side door.
No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example. You probably consider yourself a mostly ethical person. "Most people think that being mostly ethical is fine as long as their not on the losing end of someone's elses lapse in ethics"(Covey, Ethics 101).
You have no clue if you truly believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical category. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practices? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a piece of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why. It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitist attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one that sees into all men's hearts and knows what they seek and find. It has been more like a flame war between those who like it and those who don't and then ofcourse your regular "I hate you flames to SOE."
You crack me up with your elitist attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truly are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truly learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Socrates wrote, By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will become very happy. If you get a bad one, youll become a philosopher.
Ethics (from Greek ethikos) is the branch of axiology one of the four major branches of philosophy (wiki)
Make of that what you will. Ethics, Morals..either way, I am not wrong in being upset that an unethical company such as SOE took 2 years of my time investment and flushed it down the drain on the whim for more money.
[quote]Originally posted by nthnaoun [b] No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example.[/quote] [quote] I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things. [/b][/quote]
So which is it? No one plans to be un-ethical? Or you yourself have made a living by planning to be unethical on a daily basis?
Lots of people plan to be unethical: journalists, politicians, salespeople, lawyers, religious leaders, protesters and activists to name a few groups that attract a disproportionate number of unethical people. Not everyone in those groups is unethical though and you can find unethical people in every other group too. Of course if you had the slightest clue about ethics beyond that of a student taking (and apparently failing) a first year philosphy course you'd alread know that. You really need to catch up on your Adams, Taylor and Moore reading, it's exam season. Even more than those luminaries you need to read the Jean Jeacques Rousseau text The Social Contract gathering dust on your shelf as apparently the Marines somehow failed you in their usual good work instilling a sense of duty.
I've got a news flash for you. The 'Golden Rule' you keep referring to has a bit more substance than 'turn the other cheek' or, more accurately 'roll over, bite the pillow and take it' that you seem to think it does. It also pre-dates your christian mythology. 'Treat others as you would want them to treat you' goes beyond saying hello to strangers on the street. It encompasses what kind of society we want to live in. In that context anyone that wants to make the world better would want to receive a serious and proportional punishement for any wrongdoing, to be made an example of, and would insist on the same for those that actually do wrong. Like...say...SOE. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." THAT would be unethical.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Socrates wrote, By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will become very happy. If you get a bad one, youll become a philosopher.
Ethics (from Greek ethikos) is the branch of axiology one of the four major branches of philosophy (wiki)
Make of that what you will. Ethics, Morals..either way, I am not wrong in being upset that an unethical company such as SOE took 2 years of my time investment and flushed it down the drain on the whim for more money.
I agree you aren't wrong in you being upset over a companies bad ethics.
Originally posted by SonOfAGhost [quote]Originally posted by nthnaoun [b] No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example.[/quote] [quote] I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things. [/b][/quote] So which is it? No one plans to be un-ethical? Or you yourself have made a living by planning to be unethical on a daily basis? Lots of people plan to be unethical: journalists, politicians, salespeople, lawyers, religious leaders, protesters and activists to name a few groups that attract a disproportionate number of unethical people. Not everyone in those groups is unethical though and you can find unethical people in every other group too. Of course if you had the slightest clue about ethics beyond that of a student taking (and apparently failing) a first year philosphy course you'd alread know that. You really need to catch up on your Adams, Taylor and Moore reading, it's exam season. Even more than those luminaries you need to read the Jean Jeacques Rousseau text The Social Contract gathering dust on your shelf as apparently the Marines somehow failed you in their usual good work instilling a sense of duty. I've got a news flash for you. The 'Golden Rule' you keep referring to has a bit more substance than 'turn the other cheek' or, more accurately 'roll over, bite the pillow and take it' that you seem to think it does. It also pre-dates your christian mythology. 'Treat others as you would want them to treat you' goes beyond saying hello to strangers on the street. It encompasses what kind of society we want to live in. In that context anyone that wants to make the world better would want to receive a serious and proportional punishement for any wrongdoing, to be made an example of, and would insist on the same for those that actually do wrong. Like...say...SOE. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." THAT would be unethical.
I never said I was an un-ethical salesman, did I? No I didn't. Your stereotyping a salesman as being un-ethical. Stereotyping is one of the major flaws our people have. You should not be so quick as to assume what and if I'm taking any courses or failing any courses. I have a desire to gain knowledge through all means, not just schooling. Turning the other cheek is a Christian phrase out of the Bible and doesn't have anything to do with the golden rule. The golden rule actually spans many religions and cultures which I don't care to write all down at the moment. The golden rule is self explanatory and nothing in it says to turn the other cheek or take it up the a## as you so eloquently put it.
Now I will not explain myself again. You need to read all of my post in this thread and quit puting words in my mouth or making accusations about my belief. You have no right to talk to me about sense of duty when it comes to the Marine Corps. I more than paid my price for freedom, but I don't need to get into that. My service to my country has nothing to do with the OP.
Here's my summary of this thread. The original poster is a person who had somewhat of an epiphany, and then everyone just took the opportunity to bitch just like the do in every other thread.
Conclusion: there is good in the world, and some people REALLY like to bitch.
Originally posted by anarchyart Here's my summary of this thread. The original poster is a person who had somewhat of an epiphany, and then everyone just took the opportunity to bitch just like the do in every other thread. Conclusion: there is good in the world, and some people REALLY like to bitch.
Where is this "good" you speak of?
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by anarchyart Here's my summary of this thread. The original poster is a person who had somewhat of an epiphany, and then everyone just took the opportunity to bitch just like the do in every other thread. Conclusion: there is good in the world, and some people REALLY like to bitch.
And yet here you are bitching about people bitching, maybe you need to have an epiphany moment. Well to everyone else its just the obvious.
Originally posted by bugzonlsd Many people may find this post unbelievable, as some of you know I (like many others)have come down on the recent changes in SWG and the company SOE/La pretty hard via posting in forums and such. No, I'm not changing my opinion on it, I'm just better then trashing a game and the makers and know when enough is enough. When we do this we are not only affecting the company and people who have jobs there that brought us a fairly decent game with the exception of the bugs but the remaining playerbase as well. If everyone else wants to go on trashing and flaming thats up to you guys but I'll be first I guess to come out and apologize for some of the things I've said towards someones work, because thats what it is, someones vision or someones fun. Although I donot share that vision I'm not going to try to tear whats left of it down. So here it is SOE/LA, my apologies to you and to the remaining playerbase trying to make the best out of what you have. Good luck with SWG in the future & Happy holidays to you all
SOE deserves no apology, if anything SOE needs to refund us all the last 2+ years we played their game, and then apologize to us for screwing us over. As for us affecting the jobs of the people that made the game...if I did poor work at my company(a fortune 100 company BTW) how long do you think I would stay employed? If the people that made SWG and continue to screw it up over the last couple of years loose their jobs - good! I hope they never work in this genre again. They are not derserving of the honor of being on the leading edge of entertainment. Let the people that do work hard and do good work be rewarded and those that don't should get the boot. You might think it is OK to accept the shody work SOE did with SWG over the years(and it was shody), but I sure don't and the NGE was the last straw. I really wish I was CEO of SOE, first thing I would do is start by firing anyone envolved with SWG and hire all new people. Same goes for the higher ups that are envolved with PS. Fire the lot of them and bring in some new people who want to make a great, succesful game.
Then I would send out a public letter to every website and magazine apologizing for SOE past actions and make amends by offering 6 months of free game play to any previous subscribers of SWG and Planetside - after the newly revised games had been thoroughly tested and released live. I myself would be envolved with testing so I would be able to see for myself if the game was ready to go live. Further more I would make it A number one that customer relations would be as much as a priority as making great, playable, fun games and every one envolved with CR would have to answer to me directly if I ever heard of a customer being mishandled. There would be strict guidelines that would be followed and if any CR or CSR failed to follow just one...they'd be gone in a heart beat.
You might think that a CEO would be able to do that...but you'd be wrong.
To bad MMORPG.com can't come up with a better message board to use - clearly this one is horrible. I've never seen a message board that posted so many double post.
Teala thank you for taking the time to explain that to us all, i do concur with what many of you are saying and now i just hope that they can listen and act to what we have said, it is a sham that a good thing had to go to its grave and the fact that we all had to see it go down and not being able to do anything about it, hurts. I just hope i, myself a long time gamer of SWG can find another MMO that i can enjoy once again, I would like to see what all of you have or are thinking about playing. Folks i got one last Question for you all,,, if SWG went back to its changes and b/c many of us have canceled our accounts would you go back? and what changes would you make??, me ,,, i was a smuggler would be nice if i could live us to my title.
Comments
You have no clue if you truely believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical catagory. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practises? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a peice of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why.
It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitest attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one
You crack me up with your elitest attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truely are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truely learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Ok, you edited your posts here at MMORPG.COM, and you posted your apology here at MMORPG.COM because---why? I see no reason for you to apologize here, you are simply confusing all of the participants of this forum since your apology has nothing to do with this website or this section of the forums... I think you are both grandstanding and trolling at the same time, given the remarks you made such as:
-"You just did again you sorry piece of &^#$! %&# you and the horse you rode in on you worthless *&^%talkin *&#$!& I hate nOObz like your ^^^$#azz"
I think trolling might just be your forte... Either that, or you are a emotional teenager... Again, either way you are looking rather foolish...
Ok Dis_Ordur whatever,if you dont get it now then you never will. Obviously your the one whos EMO here, I dunno what I did to tick you off , But your just proving what this whole thread is about, and thats not being able to say what you gotta say in a constructive-non flaming manner and let go. Your not winning any awards for all this and neither am I. The NGE is still there and your still not changing SOE/La's mind so quit the game if your still playing and unsatisfied and dont like it and let your little hurt feelings about the NGE go and move on.
K lets stop all this childish bickering now shall we?
If I'm to appologize to SOE for telling people how aweful their game is, they better start appologizing to me for charging me to play a buggy system that changed drastically two times with little compensation and for selling me an expansion that promised lots of great stuff only to become obsolete two weeks after release.
:
-W.
You have no clue if you truly believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical category. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practices? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a piece of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why.
It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitist attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one
You crack me up with your elitist attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truly are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truly learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Subscriptions to this game are on a voluntary basis. So if you thought the game was buggy and crappy, and yet still payed a monthy fee for it, then that's your fault not theirs. You should have just quit the game and moved on.
Now your argument on the ToOW has been nullified by the fact that they offered a refund for that game. So what is your complaint again?
Wow.. when I read this this morning, I thought it'd fall off the first page.
But I wanted to say this... especially after reading the posts
It is "Preaching to the CHOIR" not quire. There is no such word as quire. C-H-O-I-R.
As in the thought that the preacher got turned around and is not talking to the congregation, but the CHOIR.. the people who are already WITH him.
As for the rest of the post... I'd be happy if $OE went under and they all lost their jobs. Smedley especially. But they are ALL culpable for not saying in unison "This is crazy, we're going to drive everyone away"
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Double post.
It's all Smed's fault.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Well I for one dont have an issue with the original poster and how he gave his opinion. He didnt insult people who had issue with the game, he just gave his view on the subject.
We're warning people, thats the flat out bottom line. I dont want SOE to steal another dime from another customer who just wants to have a good time and then lateron have that ruined for them. Spending thousands of hours building up a business and reputation, artifacts, items, etc and have all that work destroyed.
Many have backed the product to this point and stayed partly because of hope, investment and to a large degree promises from SOE to fix and finish the product we supported and invested in and instead they sloppily mesh a different version over it more than once, with the last instance being paved in deceptive business practices. Ya not our fault there and we will move on if and when we wish (put that in your ethic pipe). All things you do are on a voluntary basis ..DER.
PIRATE LORDS
You have no clue if you truly believe that no one really plans to be un-ethical. While it is true that many do not, there are some that do. I consider generalizations to be unethical as well...thus you just fell into that accidental un-ethical category. I also consider quoting people incorrectly to be un-ethical. I am sure the correct wording is "they're not". That's the problem with ethics. Too many people bend them to suit their needs. That is...until a majority hold their feet to the fire. Is it unethical for a customer to expect/demand fair treatment form a company? No. Is it unethical to warn others of the dangers of a company that has repeatedly shown unethical business practices? No. Does the rule of "He who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to this current situation? No. So take your biased ethics and quit trying to mold me to your own thoughts. If I stole a piece of bubble gun when I was 5, it has zero impact on whether I believe that SOE has bad business ethics and why.
It is actually "they are" my memory wasn't as good as it should be. Now it was not a generalization that led me to believe most try to be ethical, but rather a study shown in a book I am reading. So you can eat those words pal. "No one really plans" Actually, it WAS your words that showed you to be generalizing. As for the rest of your post. It is not even worth responding to. I'm not hear(sp) to argue ethics with someone who is so blatantly ignorant as you are. Indeed. Alright "dude" you won. Clearly I am the blatantly ignorant one. Thanks for pounding that into my skull with your elitist attitude and be sure to thank your "ethical" teacher for showing you how to use those "ethics" you have learned all about to "pwn" people on the boards in the most hypocritical fashion known to man since time began. The point is, is to treat others the way you want to be treated. The OP was apologizing for the fact that he wasn't doing this. You on the other hand seem to agree that you would love for people to flame you for liking a particular game. I'm guessing you pulled that out of a place where the son doesn't shine? Giving someone advice on a bad game and flaming someone for liking it is two different stories. Not really, but I suppose to someone of your great intellect, you can tell the difference between atoms so we lower beings should simply submit to your great wisdom. But I haven't seen hardly anyone coming to this forum for your advice on whether or not they should play it. Oh great wise all knowing one
You crack me up with your elitist attitude contained in you "humble" attempts to prove yourself better than everyone else. You truly are the finest example of how children will grasp only part of a concept...grab it tight and follow it in life no matter how wrong or right it may be. When you truly learn ethics, you'll look back at your posts here and see 1) why many of us don't claim to be perfect nor completely ethical and 2) Just how unethical you are as well.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Socrates wrote, By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will become very happy. If you get a bad one, youll become a philosopher.
Ethics (from Greek ethikos) is the branch of axiology one of the four major branches of philosophy (wiki)
Make of that what you will. Ethics, Morals..either way, I am not wrong in being upset that an unethical company such as SOE took 2 years of my time investment and flushed it down the drain on the whim for more money.
[quote]Originally posted by nthnaoun
[b]
No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example.[/quote]
[quote]
I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things. [/b][/quote]
So which is it? No one plans to be un-ethical? Or you yourself have made a living by planning to be unethical on a daily basis?
Lots of people plan to be unethical: journalists, politicians, salespeople, lawyers, religious leaders, protesters and activists to name a few groups that attract a disproportionate number of unethical people. Not everyone in those groups is unethical though and you can find unethical people in every other group too. Of course if you had the slightest clue about ethics beyond that of a student taking (and apparently failing) a first year philosphy course you'd alread know that. You really need to catch up on your Adams, Taylor and Moore reading, it's exam season. Even more than those luminaries you need to read the Jean Jeacques Rousseau text The Social Contract gathering dust on your shelf as apparently the Marines somehow failed you in their usual good work instilling a sense of duty.
I've got a news flash for you. The 'Golden Rule' you keep referring to has a bit more substance than 'turn the other cheek' or, more accurately 'roll over, bite the pillow and take it' that you seem to think it does. It also pre-dates your christian mythology. 'Treat others as you would want them to treat you' goes beyond saying hello to strangers on the street. It encompasses what kind of society we want to live in. In that context anyone that wants to make the world better would want to receive a serious and proportional punishement for any wrongdoing, to be made an example of, and would insist on the same for those that actually do wrong. Like...say...SOE. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." THAT would be unethical.
You guys / gals are so dramatic...
Don't apologize....original vision was awesome..here is the current vision
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
No matter what the consquences.
If you are talking about the coders and artists...then I am with you...but the suits deserve all the player hatred that has come their way.
Again you miss the point. You should have stayed in school or kept studying or something, because you just don't get it. That's fine. If that's how you want to be that is okay. However, I want to make a difference in this country and world. I already have partly by serving as a Marine in this last war, but my next step is to help our country realize our sad state of ethics we believe to be right.
The whole point is, that it should be consciously on our minds to be ethical and a good way to do that is to remember the golden rule before each action you take. Will you make mistakes? Yes sure we all will, but the difference between people are the ones who are faced with the choice to be ethical and lose and they are ethical still and the others who are ethical only when it is convenient for them.
Socrates wrote, By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will become very happy. If you get a bad one, youll become a philosopher.
Ethics (from Greek ethikos) is the branch of axiology one of the four major branches of philosophy (wiki)
Make of that what you will. Ethics, Morals..either way, I am not wrong in being upset that an unethical company such as SOE took 2 years of my time investment and flushed it down the drain on the whim for more money.
I agree you aren't wrong in you being upset over a companies bad ethics.
I never said I was an un-ethical salesman, did I? No I didn't. Your stereotyping a salesman as being un-ethical. Stereotyping is one of the major flaws our people have. You should not be so quick as to assume what and if I'm taking any courses or failing any courses. I have a desire to gain knowledge through all means, not just schooling. Turning the other cheek is a Christian phrase out of the Bible and doesn't have anything to do with the golden rule. The golden rule actually spans many religions and cultures which I don't care to write all down at the moment. The golden rule is self explanatory and nothing in it says to turn the other cheek or take it up the a## as you so eloquently put it.
Now I will not explain myself again. You need to read all of my post in this thread and quit puting words in my mouth or making accusations about my belief. You have no right to talk to me about sense of duty when it comes to the Marine Corps. I more than paid my price for freedom, but I don't need to get into that. My service to my country has nothing to do with the OP.
Here's my summary of this thread. The original poster is a person who had somewhat of an epiphany, and then everyone just took the opportunity to bitch just like the do in every other thread.
Conclusion: there is good in the world, and some people REALLY like to bitch.
Where is this "good" you speak of?
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
heh heh heh,
I just want to share my mind about the new changes to SWG, i have been a member after 5 days from its release.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Oh BTW take a look at this just page down a few times, i think it is the thought of everyone that USE TO PLAY http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000092P4A/102-9105983-3555310?v=glance
SOE deserves no apology, if anything SOE needs to refund us all the last 2+ years we played their game, and then apologize to us for screwing us over. As for us affecting the jobs of the people that made the game...if I did poor work at my company(a fortune 100 company BTW) how long do you think I would stay employed? If the people that made SWG and continue to screw it up over the last couple of years loose their jobs - good! I hope they never work in this genre again. They are not derserving of the honor of being on the leading edge of entertainment. Let the people that do work hard and do good work be rewarded and those that don't should get the boot. You might think it is OK to accept the shody work SOE did with SWG over the years(and it was shody), but I sure don't and the NGE was the last straw. I really wish I was CEO of SOE, first thing I would do is start by firing anyone envolved with SWG and hire all new people. Same goes for the higher ups that are envolved with PS. Fire the lot of them and bring in some new people who want to make a great, succesful game.
Then I would send out a public letter to every website and magazine apologizing for SOE past actions and make amends by offering 6 months of free game play to any previous subscribers of SWG and Planetside - after the newly revised games had been thoroughly tested and released live. I myself would be envolved with testing so I would be able to see for myself if the game was ready to go live. Further more I would make it A number one that customer relations would be as much as a priority as making great, playable, fun games and every one envolved with CR would have to answer to me directly if I ever heard of a customer being mishandled. There would be strict guidelines that would be followed and if any CR or CSR failed to follow just one...they'd be gone in a heart beat.
You might think that a CEO would be able to do that...but you'd be wrong.