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MMORPG.COM News: Editorial: Comic MMO War Looms
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Marvel Comics boasts Spider-man, the X-Men and Microsoft's power behind it. DC Comics tapped Sony Online Entertainment to power its stable that includes Superman. And we have the current kings of online-superhero games: NCSoft and developer Cryptic Studios with their titles City of Heroes and City of Villains. As these three superpowers go at it, who will win? Who has the inside track? Who has the best license? Staff Writer Andree Ehrig examines these questions in this new editorial.
;)
Creating a multiplayer title based on Superman, Batman and other DC heroes appears to be equally complicated. The heroes usually do their heroic deeds alone and the amount of character customization options in a DC MMOG is going to be more limited than in a Marvel competitor. The DC game is scheduled for release on console and PC in winter 2007, so until then, SOE will have to deal with various issues. Firstly the same ones Sigil Games have to deal with. But primarily, SOE have a problem called bad publicity. SWG has turned into SOEs public nightmare due to game changes that caused uproar in the player base and left many players disgruntled, swearing to never touch a SOE game again. This bad publicity might hurt them in the long run when their DC superhero game is trying to build a community. On the other hand, the ideological battle between the DC fan base and the Marvel followers has been infamous for years and both fan groups are quite large, untapped potential for huge MMOG communities. If the DC fans can forgive the mistakes SOE have made in the past, a DC-based superhero MMOG is also destined for success. |
You may read the full article here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
In my personal opinion DC will be at the bottom of my list. I have been disappointed by SOE too many times to even care about anything they put out anymore. It's not only what they did to SWG, but what happened to EQ and EQ 2 as well. The Marvel one, meh, if it's MS putting it out it's going to be made for the console as well I'd imagine. I don't really want to play a dumbed down for the console game. I don't play my games on a console system. I'll probably watch to see what it grows into though.To me COH/COV is almost as perfect as you can get in the genre. I think they'll stay at the top as long as they keep adding things to make the game more intersting.
The Marvel game made by MS/Sigil is scheduled for X-Box 360. There has been no word whether it will be released on PC aswell. I hope it will be for PC too, since I don't have a X-Box 360 but would like to play this MMOG.
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
With all the wonderful mistakes made by SOE in its partnership with Lucas Arts with Star War Galaxies . IF I was a Exec over at DC /Warner Brothers , I would look for a way to break the contract that was made for SOE to take over the ailing Matrix on line with the easter egg of the DC heroes.
SOE is poisoned itself and any franchise holder should be forewarned before siginig a deal with them.
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Considering the genre has only one game in it, classifying it "perfect" means very little, as there is nothing to compare it to. That being said, the genre's one example could do with quite a bit of improvement before it even comes close to what many would consider ideal. If you take into consideration the multiple patches that have been made in the name of "balance," which in essence requires you to team if you want to enjoy any of the actual content in the game (wiping out mobs that roam in various zones, whether a contact tells me to or not does not classify as content to me), then you quickly see that NCsoft's formula could use some work. Granted, they do many things well, but for me, and for many others out there, if you don't have a viable solo game, then you have no game at all. I like MMOGs that envision a game where teaming is an option, rather than a necessity, and NCsoft has time and time again demonstrated that their idea of a soloable game includes giving a solo player missions that cannot be completed alone. To those unfortunate people who don't have friends online, and who refuse to join pick-up teams, NCsoft has responded that those people can "keep the streets clean of villains (or heroes)" and forego any real sense of accomplishment in a game that is already one big grind even with full access to story arcs. I, for one, have turned my back on NCsoft's hero MMOGs until they acknowledge the kind of player I am and demonstrate a desire to create an enjoyable solo experience. Believe me, I'm more than happy to team up with people on occasion, but I refuse to pay for a game that eliminates a great deal of content from the game if I choose not to.
Should have went with another company. SOE's rep is really terrible. Nothing like playing russian roulette with millions. Gamers arnt that forgiving. But im sure it will appeal to someone. Just not me.
FoE Fist of the Empire
I am a Superman and especially Batman fan too bad though I won't give SOE one red cent because they have proven time and time again they have no regard for the fans of the games they provide. I have no intention in waisting money on a SOE game ever again. I am excited in the Marvel side so I will see how that one goes.
I think SOE was chosen by DC comics because they want to focus on the secret identities of the heroes. This is something that City of Heroes doesn't have yet, and Marvel will probably not have that feature.
The Marvel on would be the game to go with if I had to pick... Sony will rush the DC and release it incomplete then revamp it after 9 to 14 months. Then maybe again at the 2 year mark for good measure.
On top of it they will more then likely stick with the tried and true EQ formula and one way or another we will more then likely end up killing rats to start with "over a thousand quest" (read basic kill task and fedx runs)
Sony DC NPC - "Hello SuperMMO Man, go out and kill 10 Super Rats for me and I will give you 10 Super Pies in return"
Another DC NPC - SuperMMO Man, you must bring this Super letter to NPC X right away...the fate of Superland depends on it. Return to me for a reward of 10 Super pennies!
LoL, I really hope they wouldn't do that.....but you know what they say, Past preformance is the best indicator of future
delateur, that's why I started my post stating it was my personal opinion. I really only meant, SOE had nothing to do with it and it wasn't a dumbed down console MMOG. I never really played COH to solo, so I hada lot of fun playing. I do play solo in other games though, so I am not saying it is a bad thing to do. There may be another decent comic based game on the PC in the future and it may be better than what we have. But I personally don't feel it will be either of these games.
By the way, aside from your dislike of NCsoft, I agree wth you on alot of things. I just never really noticed the bad things you experienced. I have always had fun, I usually did ok the little bit I did solo and I have always had good experience with the customer service. Like them or not, they do stay in contact with their customers, moreso than alot of games after release. Not sure why I'm really sticking up for them really, I don't play anymore. I'm more into dragon and wizards, than tights and capes.
Happy Holidays to everyone
A majority of this article is a lot of speculation. And I can tell you one of these projects isn't going to happen. Yes im purposely being cryptic.
Of course it's speculation. The games aren't even out yet.
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
[quote]Originally posted by Torak
On top of it they will more then likely stick with the tried and true EQ formula and one way or another we will more then likely end up killing rats to start with "over a thousand quest" (read basic kill task and fedx runs)
[b]The Marvel on would be the game to go with if I had to pick... Sony will rush the DC and release it incomplete then revamp it after 9 to 14 months. Then maybe again at the 2 year mark for good measure.
Sony DC NPC - "Hello SuperMMO Man, go out and kill 10 Super Rats for me and I will give you 10 Super Pies in return[/quote]
The sad thing is, you're right. And even if you're not SoE don't give you any confidence that it won't be.
Oh yeah and sygmas I agree with your sig.
Personally, I'd vote Marvel. With the success of their movies (compared to some other hero-genre movies), the MMO market, while strenuous, could be relatively easy with a good company, and while I have some qualms about MS, they do make fabulous games.
Sony, on the other hand, has been falling back in all departments, including game software, in quality for at least a year or two. They over-charge, over-hype anything they put their names on, and in the end, you feel burned when you find out something just like it came out cheaper, and with better quality.
NCSoft, with its superhero game, is really failing now, as people are beginning to jump ship for City of Villains, or other MMOs, since the recent release of patches that lessened many heroes effectiveness in team-based, let alone solo, gameplay. On top of that, they still haven't added/fixed some of the problems around on some of their powersets. People are complaining, and Cryptic is not listening (similar to SoE on Star Wars).
Right now, we need more pc hero competition, and if SoE and MS decide to jump in with Marvel/DC MMOs, then maybe I'll jump too
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
More competition sounds good and sometimes results in better products being available but I honestly don't expect it to happen with this genre. CoH/CoV has one of the best (maybe THE best) combat system of any mmorpg. What it really lacks is any sort of content outside of combat.
But I don't expect any game made for the console to focus on anything other than combat. SOE in particular has shown (through SWG changes) that their philosophy is to maximize profits by making games so dumbed-down that anyone old enough to mash buttons can play.
I'd be extremely surprised if either of the console games offer as much depth as CoH/CoV. And CoH/CoV is already lacking in depth.
DIE SOE!
Good Lord! Did you do ANY research before writing this article?
There is absolutely NO WAY whatsoever that either Marvel or DC's games will allow a player to take the helm of an existing canon character. You are NOT going to be Superman or Spiderman. You're not even going to be a second or third tier character like Psylocke or Booster Gold. They cannot afford to allow players, who may behave in unforseen ways, to endanger the image of their intellectual property. Heck, the lawsuit that Marvel filed against Cryptic was specifically because people could create characters who moderately resembled canon characters.
When you realize this, the future of the games becomes a whole different story. You'll be new characters, placed in a setting that has NPC versions the catalog characters. You'll have missions and storylines based on DC and Marvel continuity. You will have to have massive customization, in both games, because all the characters will be original. So, at best, a lot of your assumptions are either in error or just plain poorly thought out.
Will they succeed? Who knows. Just because you have a nice universe to set your game in doesn't mean it'll be a good game. Witness SWG or Matrix for examples of how you can screw up a franchise environment. Another good example is what Turbine is busily doing to Dungeons and Dragons. Will they "depose" Cryptic? Doubtful. Any more than the second generations of fantasy MMO's deposed EQ.
And to the person who mentioned people "jumping ship for City of Villains" from City of Heroes...um, you do know they're both NCSoft and even interconnected, right?
It seems the poster above me had an annuerism reading posts. Calm down
.
Well, one thing is for sure. Marvel, the company that was almost bankrupt before its spiderman movie franchise went on a rampage when they realized their untapped source. The MMOG market. When they recieved word of NCsofts success with City of Hero's. Do you think Marvel went after them only for the "Intellecual Property" that closely resembles their trademarks? No.
Marvel went after NCsoft to cripple their company to open way into their own MMOG and sadly ( I dont know the out come of the lawsuit ) its turned my stomach on Marvel. Had Marvel Comics, Inc. let it go, I may be one to try and pick up their newly aquired title after release.
With Microsoft having probably the worst release of a console in history, releasing a game for their system solely would cripple them. I'm sure a majority of console users think the 360 is gimped and are now going for the PS3. So if Marvel and Microsoft want to make any money, I sure hope they go with a PC release as well.
Smart poster.
FoE Fist of the Empire
Hmmm, where to begin, so many roadblocks to choose from ...
As for Marvel's game, in my opinion, Microsoft is hoping to use the Marvel franchise to sell Xbox 360s. The problem is that no MMOG has been a hit on a gaming console yet and I personally doubt it ever will be until everything you need to play one properly (hard drive, keyboard, mouse) comes standard on the base system of a popular game system. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by coming out with 2 systems to choose from (the early adopters of the hard drive are the gaming maniacs who will buy anything, not the majority of the gaming population). No one has proven that a large base of players are willing to play an MMOG on a console. I believe the success of WoW is what made Lucas Arts force Sony to change to SWG to make it appeal to a wider audience in the hopes of emulating WoW's success. So don't blame Sony for the changes at SWG, of course there are a lot of others issues regarding that game that you can blame them for, but I would bet money that the NGE (or what ever the latest change is called) was 100% Lucas Arts idea.
Another issue is wether or not Sigil can make a good game as they are an as yet unproven company. Yes many of them worked on other MMOGs and Brad McQuaid help create EQ, but remember he was forced out of EQ because he wouldn't listen to the player base and enjoyed prloninging player grind agony as much as possible. At that time he firmly believed that time played should warrant any in game reward (i.e. levels, items, gold).
In the end I think the deal breaker for Marvel is the Xbox 360 only release.
As for DC, I predict the game will launch early, have game breaking bugs and will have a fraction of the customization options of CoH/CoV. Graphics options require art which requires a lot of time and knowing Sony's past, they won't be given that time. They will mutate the game trying to sniff the latest fad in the wind right up until game launches and this will make it a confusing mess. Will Warner Bros do anything to fix it? Did they do anything to prevent the snore that is The Matrix Online?
In the end CoH/Cov may or may not have the biggest superhero MMOG subscriber base because foolish DC/Marvel fans will flock to their respective game not realizing just how much that game sucks (ala SWG, not a bad game, just not really a STAR WARS game). Either way I predict neither will achieve the success of even EQ and will be considered a major dissapoinment by Marvel and DC.
That's my 2 cents.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
NCSoft didn't make CoH/CoV, Cryptic Studios did. CoH was looking for a publisher far before NCS started making a name for itself.
Decent article, though nothing we didn't know already.
NCSoft is better known for CoH/CoV than Cryptic Studios
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
I think holding CoH up as the superhero equivalent of WoW ("How will they break CoH's stranglehold on the superhero market") is kind of ridiculous. The subscription base for CoH is a boutique level, and for good reason.
I love supers. I was waiting for CoH for literally a YEAR before it was released. They made a number of decisions that ruined the game for me and a lot of other major supers fans. Of my RL friends who played and enjoyed CoH that I know, 8 out of the 10 have since quit. And all 8 would try another superhero game, branded or unbranded, if it were well designed.
I think of the two the SoE has the better shot. I'd rather play a game designed for PC than one designed for an Xbox. And while SoE doesnt exactly make me dance for joy with their design decisions, I'll take SoE over Brad McQuaid in a flat heartbeat.
One of the big questions is how much money each has for development. To get detailed stories and varied settings and adventures, you need either deep pockets or a REALLY innovative way of creating adventures quickly with a module tool. I think SoE has by far the deeper pockets. Keep in mind SWG was only like the fourth major MMORPG ever made. A lot has been learned about what works and what doesnt. Yes. You can have deep pockets and still screw it up (hello EQ2) but at least you arent shipping it because you no longer have money to polish the game.
And of course, you never know. CoH could grow a brain and release an actual, I dunno, EXPANSION to add desperately needed new content and bring players back. As opposed to an alternate game that adds very little to gameplay for current players and bleeds away players so that there are even fewer people for groups, missions, etc.
Ill tell u that SOE will never put the hands in my money again!
About DC and Marvel Comics, i think Marvel is way better and have the best heroes by far.