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Whats the Difference between this and neverwinter nights?
GungaDin
Member UncommonPosts: 514
You can play both online with friends. It doesnt seem like D&D is a true MMORPG, just a network to play some instanced dungeons. But Neverwinter Nights already provides that. I don't get it. Can someone shed some light on this for me? I was really thinking about buying D&D online but from what i heard its not really that innovated. No crafting, no housing, no real open world like in SWG or UO. just a town to meet up with some adventures to do a quest.
I don't know, maybe i'm all wrong here.
*** What i was hoping for was a Ultima Online clone format. That would have been playable.
Comments
If you think about early UO - Darkfall online is your game to wait (and hope it actually gets released
)
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DStuff
Dont you see the conflict in your own statement? "Doing quests" and "creating character" is VERY much about sitting in chairs, crafting, and housing.
The whole point of D&D was character development and assuming a virtual identity. You would get together with friends for YEARS sometimes and keep characters going through all kinds of campaigns. At its best, it would reach LITERARY level. Feist's Midkemia, Salvatores Forgotten Realms, Baker's Eberron, Weiss and Hickman's DragonLance... These worlds are all the products of weekly D&D games!
D&D was about a LOT more than aimlessly finding 5 strangers in a "gathering spot" and repeating rinse and repeat quests in an instance. There were TEXTBOOKS full of history and game lore. So yeah, not being able to sit in chair and listen to a bard and then go wander the countryside in search of trolls causing trouble for farmers is a BIG problem for a game that is supposed to be "D&D online".
WoW is more D&D than D&D is!
Well you are right in that sense that WoW has a lot broader set of features and a much larger world to explore than DDO.
The negatives I have for WoW are that 90% of the quests in the game are incredibly bland and they all look and feel the same. The same goes for the races and the classes. Blizzard has somehow in their means to balance the game, balanced it so much that it doesn't matter who or what you are and what you're doing.
So basically all that is left in WoW is the social community aspect and they're still working on that adding guild halls etc. in the next expansion.
To me WoW was never really the 2nd coming of christ regarding mmorpgs. It is too much the same deal as games before it.
That being said, I had really hoped for DDO to be a mmorpg. Through my beta experience I have gotten to think of it as a NWN with online hubs and action oriented combat.
That in itself is cool in it's own way. As the game seems to be now it thought, it would take a hardcore gamer 14 days MAX to complete everything in the game (Yes I think the content is waaaaaaay to little) and then all you can do is wait for the expansion.
I don't know what the developers were thinking when brainstorming for the game, but to make a game, that supposedly is released as a mmorpg, that only has about 10% of the content and features of games like WoW, EQ etc. is just plain silly.
After you reach top level you have something to do in basically every other game there is. Guild Wars has it's massive pvp part. WoW has a little pvp and a lot of high level raid quests. DDO seems to have 0. Nothing.
I plated the stress test and I can honestly say I was devastated by how poor this game is. Also, the most recent poster hit the nail on the head . . . this is not a MMORPG.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
At first I was thinking this thread would be interesting.
Then the OP start comparing DDO to other MMOs.
DDO doesn't have to be compared to lowly other MMOs, D&D is the King of RPGs. It can redefine what a MMO is and what it is not (instead of changing what D&D is, the designers should work on what a MMO is to accomodate D&D).
The OP stumble on the mindless anti-instancing trash. You are not a D&D fan, just walk away or understand what D&D is. D&D is stronger than a genre. D&D is stronger than a type. D&D is the foundation from which most RPGs (with Warhammer proudly been an exception) are drawn from.
So instead of trashing DDO about what a MMO is, can you just bring more interesting arguments about Neverwinter Nights and DDO?
D&D is stronger than what a MMO is, get that into your head. I don't care to know what other MMOs are, they are little siblings. Instancing is a blessing IMO as long as it is nicely done, CoV/CoH are a paradise on this topic as far as I am concerned and there is to many open zones in that game, but I doesn't mind it. DDO want to put less open zone. FINE IT WORK WITH THE FRANCHISE, the past TSR products and everything we may call a legacy.
Grouping enforcement, Real time, No XP on mobs would make sense to argue over...but instancing, please stop and go on Vanguard forums, you have no understanding of what D&D is.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
OK, I will bring an interesting argument for you:
D&D is a pen and paper game which, unfortunately, is not played by the younger "video game" generation as much as it deserves to be.
If this game did not have the D&D name on it, and the initial hype that goes with it, I don't think it would even be noticed. Look to your left and you will see a list of "released games". I did not see anything in D&D that was innovative or exciting enough to draw me away from most of these games.
DDO uses instances. Why? Possibly because its developers took the lazy way out . . . exposing their lack of talent and creative ability. I played the stress test, and I know many people who also played it. I think of all these people I stuck with the game the longest, refusing to believe that it could be as bad as it appeared to be. As I progressed in the game, I was not convinced otherwise.
This game is not a MMORPG and does not deserve to be on this site. Furthermore, it is a waste of time and does not deserve to be on my harddrive. Sadly, you can create a piece of junk and get licensing and stick a label on it . . and people will buy it. But the game can not, and will not, pull the wool over people's eyes for long.
Perhaps pen and paper players that have no previous MMORPG experience will enjoy DDO. They don't know that there are better games out there (practically any one of the games listed under "released games" to the left are better). Still I find it hard to believe that pen and paper players will feel that DDO is true enough to the standard game to keep playing it.
MMORPG veterans might purchase the game out of curiousity. I bet most play it for a day . . maybe two . . before deleting it from their hard drives. The game is that bad. It offers nothing that most of the FREE MMORPG's don't already offer.
This game has been made by hacks who either had no clue as to the legacy of D&D . . or did not care about it.
Believe me, I wanted this game to be good. I prayed for it to be good. When i first played it I initially denied how horribly bad it is.
It is NOT a MMORPG. It is hardly even a multiplayer game. It does not encourage RPG at all (certainly not like the pen and paper game does). This game is a dog . . .a very ugly dog.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Nevewinter Nights is all what DDO is and than much much more. Only one thing NWN has not and DDO has, is monthyl fee.
In short NWN is for true D&D players and DM's
DDO is for players that like Guild Wars and like to pay monthly to play slightly better version of it
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Hehe, I am a true fan of D&D and I feel Neverwinter Night betrays D&D too much. I rather play Baldur's Gate again than play Neverwinter Night.
DDO is seriously concerning me much.
I never feel that Neverwinter Night even has the right to use the D&D official label, it should be another colour at the very least. But that is my opinion.
But DDO by looking more like GW than Neverwinter Night is seriously not good, two games I never enjoy.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think I will have to agree with Kelsonmac on this one. If this game didn't have the D&D name on it, no one would waste the money it is going to cost to play this per month. Instanaces are good for this game, gives that feeling that your in the dungeon being lead by a DM. Other then that, it is somewhat useless. Your never with the same people, from what I've experienced in beta, people don't take roleplaying with any seriousness. I've tried to stir up some rp, and most either ignore, laugh, or try to humor me with some lame attempt at it. If it is supposed to be like D&D, then Roleplaying is a very very strong must. It doesn't really feel like a mmorpg, it feels like it could be made for your pc on lan with 6 of your buddies and that would be perfect. That sadly is the only way I could honestly see anyone considering playing this on any timetable. Why waste time trying to find a right party setup, and have to deal with people who are just trying to "grind" their way to the highest level they can, when it is seriously about the story, your legacy as who you are, and the experiences you go through. Another game down the drain I suppose.
Just my 2 cents.
Rustayne
Well I have to thank you all for your input. I see no reason to purchase D&D Online. You have all saved me some money and time. Sad really, i was expecting a more involved game. Seems its just gonna be a giant chat room that costs $15 a month and just allows you to brag to each other how great your equipment is.
I fear Lord of the Rings will suck too, oh well.
Yikes, you actually base your game buying decisions on forums like these? You'll mostly see negative comments about games because the people with positive comments are spending their time playing the game and having fun rather than trying to have pointless arguments on the forums.
For what it's worth, my friends and I all think DDO is a lot of fun and have pre-ordered it already.
It's a great game unless you prefer to solo, or are one of those types that walk into things with preconceived notions that you can't put aside.
I'm reading through this thread and it seems like no one is actually saying DDO is bad, or even not fun, but rather the consensus seems to be that it just isn't worth a monthly fee. Maybe if games like Guild Wars and NWN never existed, people's opinions would change, but as it is too comparable to those games, not to mention lacking in content when compared to other games with a monthly fee, it receives a thumbs-down.
Personally, I wonder what the financial future of this game would be if it didn't have the DnD name to drag in the fans. After all, the number one defence for this game's lack of content is that "it doesn't represent DnD". Would the game be able to succeed if people were able to see past the 3 words in the title?
While I won't speak for others, I will say disagree with you heartily. This game is bad. This game is not fun. There, I said it. The only good thing I have to say about the game and its developers is, "Thank you for the stress test." Why? Because the hours I wasted on it during the test saved me the money I would have spent on it had I not tested it. This game is beyond salvage.
If you don't believe me, buy the game when it comes out. Perhaps, though, you should wait until a month or two after release. You should then be able to find it for $5.99 in the bargain bin at WalMart.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Heh. Guess I should have said majority instead of consensus. Anyways, I do agree with you that the stress test left a bad taste in my mouth. The storyline was a snoozefest, the Eberron lore was non-existant and the only thing that felt remotely like D&D was the character creation system (Intimidate as a taunt? Come on!).
While I doubt this game will be in the bargain bins any time soon thanks to the legions of fanbois that love anything with a familiar name (case in point: MXO), I could see it failing due to Turbine spending more money buying the DnD license then developing a fun game. Guess best we can hope is that they don't pull the same stunt with LotRO.
Right.
It's one thing if a child or a flamer comes on these forums and says nothing more than, "This game sucks." Those posts are hard to take seriously.
But when someone offers detailed reasons why a game is substandard, people will generally at least agree that this poster is sharing an honest opinion, whether they agree with it or not. Here, are my opinions.
Will some people enjoy DDO? Yes
But I honestly think that most experienced MMORPG playrs, the people who played D&D with PnP, game reviewers, the majority of the members on these forums . . will have little if anything good to say about DDO.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Well I would say that your opinion is not indicative of the majority of players. I'm a veteran MMO gamer, have played PnP for over 15 years and myself, along with at least 10 of my friends are getting the game on release. My first MMO was UO, which I played on opening day, I have played pretty much every MMO that has come out since then and I absolutely love the game that DDO is.
Most players I see bashing DDO have become so used to the standard mantra of "An MMORPG must have an open world, we must kill 50,000 'a rat' to reach level 2, then kill 100,000 'a large rat' to reach level 3, etc" that if any company tries to break the mould the game automatically sucks.
You say that by making the game instanced the devs have taken the lazy way out....Bullshit....it takes far more resources to create handcrafted instances than it ever will to create your standard MMO 'zones' that are filled with random wandering mobs who's sole purpose is to impale themselves on your sword so you can get that 1 tick closer to 'dinging' that next level.
I have seen things done in some of the DDO instances that you couldn't even dream of doing in an open world MMO, the instancing just works for what this game is going to be.
As far as this not being a true MMO can you please just stop already. The game is hosted on central servers provided and administered by Turbine: check, there can be upwards of 1000+ players logged into a server at any one time: check. Those are the only two VALID criteria that are required for a game to be called an MMORPG. But if you want to be all anal about it, The only TRUE MMORPG's in existance right now are EVE-Online and the upcoming Dark & Light game. They are the only ones that use a single-shard setup.
I read the beta forums daily thanks and it is generally the same people that are always complaining. There is about the same amount of trolling in this game as there are in other's I have beta'd.
I've also played the game and seen the results of not having an open world. My experience is that it's pretty much the same as in any other MMO, there are places that people congregate but instead of it being in the towns it is generally in the taverns instead, Big deal. It's not like the npc's in WoW do anything special, nor does having everyone in the same area, besides creating lag. You can easily find people to group with on a regular basis by adding the good players you group with to your friends list.
I'm talking about what is actually done IN the dungeons, not how you get to them as that is largely irrelevent to the point. You cannot have a floor collapse or traps trigger in an open-world MMO for one group and then let another group experience the same event. Once one group of players has triggered it then no-one else would be able to experience the content in the same way, therefore one group of players gets to experience something new at the expense of all other players in that server. It's just not feasible to do it that way.
And yes the devs at Vanguard CLAIM they can do it without instancing, but I feel they are overpromising on something that they will fail to deliver.
Minsc,
And what is the giant space hamster, namely Boo, saying about that?
Me despite everything, I will try the game AFTER release. I may troll or not, I already express my concerns about choices I would consider differently.
Instancing is a blessing. PvE is the focus. The forums here are full of seamless PvP trolls.
Do I have faith in DDO? No. Will I give it a try? Yes. Will the game please me? I got no idea, but I lack faith atm.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
DDO is but a shadow of a dream....
Let 100 people play it and only 10 won't have compliants. It would be better if players were upset about lag or downtime... but sadly its the game itself that people disagree with.
It's becoming clear to many that DDO won't make it as an average p2p game, unless instancing reduces that cost so much that bandwidth is cheap compared to other MMOs, DDO may well go the way of AC2.
The more people find about about DDO and the more they play it the more they seem to hate it. It's understandable... DDO has to not only please MMO players... it has to also please D&Ders. So they have two communities of players they can anger. I doesn't seem they are doing a good job pleasing either.
The stuff we were relying on to be good (combat system, well down quest)... the "hook" of the sale. We are now hearing (from beta people) is lame, uninventive, and annoying. What are we left with?
Honestly, I'm just gonna buy Neverwinter Nights 2 to get my D&D fix. Here are my reasons:
(1) No PVP at launch (don't tell me it may be implemented later)
(2) No Housing or Crafting at launch (These 2 components help in building a well rounded community)
(3) Lack of a true open world to explore
(4) Instanced Dungeons (Good to prevent loot campers, but I don't want every area instanced)
(5) Lack of SOLO hunting (This ties into an open world theme, I know its about grouping, but its nice to just hunt sometimes to learn the game mechanics on your on i.e. learn some tactics)
*** Now i'm not saying this is how it has to be, but I enjoy much of what I listed and D&D Online is lacking in all those categories. I hope those that play it enjoy the game, but I think i'm gonna pass till I hear more positive feedback.