Originally posted by Dedthom I cant believe this post has run this long. The horse has been beat into Non-existence.
If you don't read the first 3 pages you can make the same argument everyone else has and it's like you came up with it first, and keep sit going for anyone jumping to the end....look one post up
Originally posted by Zarcob I insist the IGE advertisements are dropped immediately. It's offensive for one and welcomes the wrong crowd to this site too. A site I've held in the past with fairly high regard as being classy and respectable. This garbage is beneath you.
I'm assuming, since you are "Insisting", that you are willing to send in the extra amount of revenue these add's bring in to help keep this site as amazing as it is. I have to say, thats so very very generous of you.
Oh wait ?? no maybe you want the site to turn into a pay site where we would have to all $5.00 for the "Premium" content we now get for what again ??? Oh right !
FREE !!!
Actually come to think of it, Dear MMORPG.com team, I really hate Anarchy Online, I think what they've done with their MMO is pathetic and even though this is just a personal oppinion, it's bellow you guys to have their banners on your web page, I will have to insist you remove everything about them, forever !!!
But don't worry about advertising income, Zarcob is picking up the tab.
i thought you were a nice kind and gentle woman.........
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Just got the new edition of PCGamer and there is a letter from the editor on how they will not take ad money from gold farmers., costing them 'hundreds of thousands of annual ad revenue'
to quote him, "Screw them"
thought the letter was awesome and wish the rest of the greedy sites/magazines would follow suit
Originally posted by fulmanfu Just got the new edition of PCGamer and there is a letter from the editor on how they will not take ad money from gold farmers., costing them 'hundreds of thousands of annual ad revenue'
to quote him, "Screw them"
thought the letter was awesome and wish the rest of the greedy sites/magazines would follow suit
that article was a sham PC gamer was just trying to attract more MMO players to subscribe.
because the IGE and similar companies cannot afford to advertise with PC gamer.
seriously Nvidia, Ati, dell, etc. all have bigger pockets then IGE.
that article defintely was just a sham IGE wouldnt really have the cash to advertise with them.
im not saying IGE doesnt make a lot of cash its just not in the same damn league.
PC gamer does do a great job of overglorifying itself, as the sole defender of PC games against a lot of threats but they seriously didnt have the balls that even AOTS does in dealing with people like hilary clinton and Jack thompson.
the IGE article was their pretending to be brave while hiding from the shells sent by those who bash video games.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Originally posted by Zarcob I insist the IGE advertisements are dropped immediately. It's offensive for one and welcomes the wrong crowd to this site too. A site I've held in the past with fairly high regard as being classy and respectable. This garbage is beneath you.
I'm assuming, since you are "Insisting", that you are willing to send in the extra amount of revenue these add's bring in to help keep this site as amazing as it is. I have to say, thats so very very generous of you.
Oh wait ?? no maybe you want the site to turn into a pay site where we would have to all $5.00 for the "Premium" content we now get for what again ??? Oh right !
FREE !!!
Actually come to think of it, Dear MMORPG.com team, I really hate Anarchy Online, I think what they've done with their MMO is pathetic and even though this is just a personal oppinion, it's bellow you guys to have their banners on your web page, I will have to insist you remove everything about them, forever !!!
But don't worry about advertising income, Zarcob is picking up the tab.
i thought you were a nice kind and gentle woman.........
Hmm, well nice and kind , most of the times maybe... but gentle ? Only if you start squirming .
And besides, there's only so much ignorance I can take, especially when it comes to this subject.
MMORPG.com is like this amazing, completely original website, and they don't charge us a dime for it, I just don't think it's fair that someone thinks they can dictate where they can make what money they do from the site.
Originally posted by Herithius While I highly doubt mmorpg.com will change their ways of doing a grave disservice to the industry they named themselves after, I encourage people to read the articles. Its pretty informative.
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Zarcob I insist the IGE advertisements are dropped immediately. It's offensive for one
How can an IGE advertisement ever be offensive?
Currently playing: * City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant. * City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Herithius While I highly doubt mmorpg.com will change their ways of doing a grave disservice to the industry they named themselves after, I encourage people to read the articles. Its pretty informative.
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
If you agree that selling gold hurts MMOGs, then of course selling add space here does. It's easy however to say it doesn't matter, people have always been good at ignoring a problem when doing so works in thier favor.
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Herithius While I highly doubt mmorpg.com will change their ways of doing a grave disservice to the industry they named themselves after, I encourage people to read the articles. Its pretty informative.
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
If you agree that selling gold hurts MMOGs, then of course selling add space here does. It's easy however to say it doesn't matter, people have always been good at ignoring a problem when doing so works in thier favor.
MMORPG.COM isn't selling gold. MMORPG.COM is selling ADD SPACE to a website that allows the trade of in game items for currency.
If YOU want to boycott IGE then by all means do so. But unless you're planning to pay the fees that IGE is currently paying MMORPG.COM to air their adds then you don't have a leg to stand on. It's a pointless arguement. Unless you plan to fork over some cash to defray the cost of MMORPG.COM shutting down an advertizer then give it a rest.
This site is expensive as hell to run I'm sure. They have to pay for several different servers, tons of bandwidth and DNS name space annually. You going to start funding them? Unless you plan to then you best be quiet. Because you don't go turning down advertizers on principle in the web industry. Those who advertize online are fairly few and far between. Especially on a site DEDICATED To MMORPG players. It's not like Ford or Chrysler or Best Buy or Target are likely to buy add space here.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
This site runs numerous ads all over the place all generating them revenue. If they took down the IGE banner Im sure they can easily find another ad to run unless no one else wants to run ads on this site(which is a new problem entirely).
Secondly, people constantly spout that the IGE banner is the final source of revenue which helps keep this site afloat after its numerous costs. You have no idea if thats true and in all likelihood, its not. Also, that poll the previous poster put up was classic. Over half of all mmorpg gamers see it as a problem. Why on earth would you even take the chance of adding to the problem? A problem where, if you are educated on the subject, realize that is has broader societal implications(as in the poor labor conditions in SE Asia). Supporting IGE is supporting the impoverished conditions that thousands have to endure. This is fact. A direct correlation. IGE isn't supported by rich players who want to unload some gold. Its supported by the farmers who make 75$ a month working 12hours/7days a week to supply this broad stream of gold. Farmers who, if you actualy read on the subject based on the two articles, are botting & hacking ingame to increase their revenue. Further, they have IGE to cover their tracks(facts stated in the articles) so the GM's of the various games can't stop them. Yet people here, supposedly mmo fans go "meh..who cares".
Im not going to go on a pedestal and say no one anywhere should use IGE or that no site should ever post their ads. Hardly. I just think a mmo site shouldn't promote a phenomenon that many see as a real problem to the industry.
Originally posted by Herithius This site runs numerous ads all over the place all generating them revenue. If they took down the IGE banner Im sure they can easily find another ad to run unless no one else wants to run ads on this site(which is a new problem entirely). Secondly, people constantly spout that the IGE banner is the final source of revenue which helps keep this site afloat after its numerous costs. You have no idea if thats true and in all likelihood, its not. Also, that poll the previous poster put up was classic. Over half of all mmorpg gamers see it as a problem. Why on earth would you even take the chance of adding to the problem? A problem where, if you are educated on the subject, realize that is has broader societal implications(as in the poor labor conditions in SE Asia). Supporting IGE is supporting the impoverished conditions that thousands have to endure. This is fact. A direct correlation. IGE isn't supported by rich players who want to unload some gold. Its supported by the farmers who make 75$ a month working 12hours/7days a week to supply this broad stream of gold. Farmers who, if you actualy read on the subject based on the two articles, are botting & hacking ingame to increase their revenue. Further, they have IGE to cover their tracks(facts stated in the articles) so the GM's of the various games can't stop them. Yet people here, supposedly mmo fans go "meh..who cares". Im not going to go on a pedestal and say no one anywhere should use IGE or that no site should ever post their ads. Hardly. I just think a mmo site shouldn't promote a phenomenon that many see as a real problem to the industry.
Nobody is saying it's their only source of revenue there blinder-boy. What we're saying is this: This site is run by someone trying to make themselves a nickel. IGE pays them money to advertize here. If you want them to yank the add then kindly inquire as to the cost of losing IGE as an advertizer and stroke them a check each month to cover the loss. If you're not willing to do that then stop posting about it.
Hell, if adds bother you so much then get an add blocker program.
Sheez.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Herithius Im not going to go on a pedestal and say no one anywhere should use IGE or that no site should ever post their ads. Hardly. I just think a mmo site shouldn't promote a phenomenon that many see as a real problem to the industry.
That's the real problem here though isn't it, I mean once we get past all you boys doing your little peeing contest, what it really comes down to is who is right and who is wrong. You say many see IGE and IGE like-sites as a real problem, I completely agree with you, as a matter of fact, I hate that entire side of MMO's BUT not everyone does, not everyone thinks selling gold is wrong or buying it for that matter.
So who's right ? Who the heck knows, but is it up to MMORPG.com tell you or me, of course not. Freewill and marketing suck but it's appart of life. I don't like IGE, so I don't use them, I speak out against them when it's appropriate and I don't visit their page, that is what I can do.
Do I feel like I support them because mmorpg.com carries ad's by them, no way in hell. I watch TV now and then, they have commercials for various car companies selling SUV's which I think are completely horrible, do I hate Fox or NBC or CBC for taking money from a big car companies to adverties on their networks ? Of course, they makes no sense, instead I do what every other consumer does, I do not buy the product and or I do not pay attention to the companies advetersing.
Originally posted by shae Do I feel like I support them because mmorpg.com carries ad's by them, no way in hell. I watch TV now and then, they have commercials for various car companies selling SUV's which I think are completely horrible,
I own an SUV It's the only thing I'm willing to lug 3 kids a dog a bird and 2 gunnea pigs around in when we go on vacations or, especially, camping. No way am I stickin all that in my car (not that I could if I wanted to). And I think minivans are just f-ing ugly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by shae Do I feel like I support them because mmorpg.com carries ad's by them, no way in hell. I watch TV now and then, they have commercials for various car companies selling SUV's which I think are completely horrible,
I own an SUV It's the only thing I'm willing to lug 3 kids a dog a bird and 2 gunnea pigs around in when we go on vacations or, especially, camping. No way am I stickin all that in my car (not that I could if I wanted to). And I think minivans are just f-ing ugly.
Metaphor... silly That and I'm bitter I can't afford one. Poor little 14 year old Jetta has to do for now.
IGE i hate them but the fact is all the game companys could have put site like that out of buisness years ago because in a lawful matter selling ingame items and gold is actually the gaming companys property and is copyrightedSo technicully its a copyright violation.But i think the companys are making some kind of profit from them or they done had their way with em.
Originally posted by Elnator MMORPG.COM isn't selling gold. MMORPG.COM is selling ADD SPACE to a website that allows the trade of in game items for currency.If YOU want to boycott IGE then by all means do so. But unless you're planning to pay the fees that IGE is currently paying MMORPG.COM to air their adds then you don't have a leg to stand on. It's a pointless arguement. Unless you plan to fork over some cash to defray the cost of MMORPG.COM shutting down an advertizer then give it a rest.This site is expensive as hell to run I'm sure. They have to pay for several different servers, tons of bandwidth and DNS name space annually. You going to start funding them? Unless you plan to then you best be quiet. Because you don't go turning down advertizers on principle in the web industry. Those who advertize online are fairly few and far between. Especially on a site DEDICATED To MMORPG players. It's not like Ford or Chrysler or Best Buy or Target are likely to buy add space here.
The whole 'if I don't like it I should pay them so they'll stop' point is stupid, but not surprising from you elnator. You are the person who says if you don't agree with me don't post in my threads person ( that's paraphasing of course )
If I think something isn't right I'm going to say something about it. It doesn't mean MMORPG.com is going to or has to stop doing it, but they will see how I feel about it. Just because this is a free site doesn't mean everyone has to just sit back and take whatever gets done here with a smile. If enough people voice thier opnion about IGE ads this site may decide to look else where.
Sites like IGE are not good for the MMOG industry. Considering how many games have been ruined trying to cater to the "casual, I want a win button" type players, I'm surprised any true MMOG fan isn't as outraged as the rest of us about the ad ( ok so outraged is just there for dramatic effect but you know what I mean :P ). For a site that makes it's living off those games advertising gold selling sites just because they have money is pretty short sighted imo.
So, no I wont offer any money to get the ad removed. Nor do I feel I should. I will howver voice my displeasure at seeing it, and ask the site admins to look else where for ad $. Now if you still feel anyone who ever disagrees with this type of thing should back it with an open wallet, I sure hope you bitch about your taxes.
There's only one side bringing up anything in new arguments here, and it is not the one going on about how anybody wanting the IGE ads gone should cover the loss in $.
That ads have no effect (don't help IGE) - I am tempted to call it bullshit (I rarely do). If this was true, they would not advertise here. They're (probably) not stupid.
Those who don't want to see ads can easily block them out
BUT: They are generally people who wouldn't click that ad in the first place. The issue here is how the ads lead other people to IGE.
IGE might actually have a right to exist and be advertised.
MMORPG.COM has the final say in this, and they might want to find somebody else to fill this slot. But maybe they're happy as it is.
It isn't given that MMORPG.COM could not simply dump IGE and go on without a replacement. I'm not saying they can, just that some argue as if it was a fact.
My own opinion is that IGE should go. And I don't mean "off this site".
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
MMORPG.COM isn't selling gold. MMORPG.COM is selling ADD SPACE to a website that allows the trade of in game items for currency. If YOU want to boycott IGE then by all means do so. But unless you're planning to pay the fees that IGE is currently paying MMORPG.COM to air their adds then you don't have a leg to stand on. It's a pointless argument. Unless you plan to fork over some cash to defray the cost of MMORPG.COM shutting down an advertizer then give it a rest. This site is expensive as hell to run I'm sure. They have to pay for several different servers, tons of bandwidth and DNS name space annually. You going to start funding them? Unless you plan to then you best be quiet. Because you don't go turning down advertizers on principle in the web industry. Those who advertize online are fairly few and far between. Especially on a site DEDICATED To MMORPG players. It's not like Ford or Chrysler or Best Buy or Target are likely to buy add space here.
The whole 'if I don't like it I should pay them so they'll stop' point is stupid, but not surprising from you elnator. You are the person who says if you don't agree with me don't post in my threads person ( that's paraphasing of course )
If I think something isn't right I'm going to say something about it. It doesn't mean MMORPG.com is going to or has to stop doing it, but they will see how I feel about it. Just because this is a free site doesn't mean everyone has to just sit back and take whatever gets done here with a smile. If enough people voice thier opnion about IGE ads this site may decide to look else where.
Sites like IGE are not good for the MMOG industry. Considering how many games have been ruined trying to cater to the "casual, I want a win button" type players, I'm surprised any true MMOG fan isn't as outraged as the rest of us about the ad ( ok so outraged is just there for dramatic effect but you know what I mean :P ). For a site that makes it's living off those games advertising gold selling sites just because they have money is pretty short sighted imo.
So, no I wont offer any money to get the ad removed. Nor do I feel I should. I will howver voice my displeasure at seeing it, and ask the site admins to look else where for ad $. Now if you still feel anyone who ever disagrees with this type of thing should back it with an open wallet, I sure hope you bitch about your taxes.
QFT
I think this sums up my thoughts pretty well. The way people in this forum jumped on the OP for his view i really truly thought was disgusting BTW.
and no this is nothing like SUV ads on TV.
Think about it though, in addition to what people have already said regarding labor camps, underpaid workers (alot of them underaged most likely) and the very factual point about whole games being ruined, there is also the fact that the secondary market is wholly illegal according to EULA's and intellectual property laws. Supporting IGE is supporting the black market. Do people realize that? IGE is selling and making hundreds of millions (no that is not an exaggerated number) off of something that is not theirs to begin with. They don't give a fuck about MMO's, it doesn't matter to them if games are becoming artificially hyper-inflated and becoming broken pieces of garbage.
It also strikes me as odd that people tell this guy to stop bitching and moaning about IGE when every single one of them have "bitched and moaned" about nerfs, and games having patches that screwed them up etc. Well the reason for this is devs trying to balance a game after the secondary industry has started to ravage a games economy.
I think alot of people don't know (want to know?)/care to know why the secondary market is bad, they just know alot of people don't like it for some reason. or maybe they think they know the reason and therefore think its not a big deal. I think its like politics, even though it directly affects people, they still don't care because they just don't want to deal with it. Well the truth is out there and it is VERY clear. ie its not "well who knows which side is right" argument.
So this is a very quick little flow sketch of what happens to games with IGE style farming and bottom feeding taking place:
Bottom feeding/ farming-->inflation/mudflation-->cheap gear/alot of gold in game economy-->players overpowered/game looses challenge-->game subscriber base depleting-->devs nerf/patch to make content challenging/ items to buy relative in cost to amount of gold in economy-->older content doesn't work with new content(they are unbalanced)--> devs add new skills/gameplay-->game is changed/unbalanced/ruined-->player base leaves-->game fails.
The middle steps may spiral on as long as devs want to keep patching/nerfing the game but after a few years the game will have completely changed. If you have not played EQ and never really understood why people always said that the early days were the best or "it was good until luclin", well theres your answer. the devs have to constantly change and revamp the game to keep it challenging and exciting and it got to a point where the old content was worthless and the new content was well...new and it just wasn't EQ as the old timers remembered it anymore.
of course a little mudflation happens without farming and what not, but newer games (at least the ones with smart devs) nowadays plan for it with money sinks, item loss, item repair costs ect. but the secondary market is making it impossible to keep a game "healthy" for a very long time.
So next time you're about to open you mouth to "whine and moan" about a game about a nerf or patch, consider the IGE add at the top of the page and ask if its really nessesary.
I really, really do not understand why IGE advertisements should be removed. As there has been no challenge in court, IGE is a legitimate business and they provide income, through ads, for mmorpg.com.
If you find virtual item selling unethical or degrading for the mmorpg genre, that's just your opinion. There are others who believe otherwise and you should learn to tolerate different points of view.
Currently playing: * City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant. * City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
Originally posted by deggilator I really, really do not understand why IGE advertisements should be removed. As there has been no challenge in court, IGE is a legitimate business and they provide income, through ads, for mmorpg.com.If you find virtual item selling unethical or degrading for the mmorpg genre, that's just your opinion. There are others who believe otherwise and you should learn to tolerate different points of view.
If IGE is so wonderful why do MMOGs ban gold/acount sellers any time they can prove they're doing so ? If MMOGs don't want them in thier games, why is a site like this promoting them ?
Durn good question... I know Adellion would ban people who used/supplied IGE in that game, because they want the game to live long and be worth playing.
The future: Adellion Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants) Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens) Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
One thing that opponents to the ads are forgetting is that there is a contract for the space for the ad. My understanding is that the contract expires at the end of this year (or sometime shortly after) and will not be renewed.
Do not quote me, it was just a discussion in the staff forums.
Comments
If you don't read the first 3 pages you can make the same argument everyone else has and it's like you came up with it first, and keep sit going for anyone jumping to the end....look one post up
I'm assuming, since you are "Insisting", that you are willing to send in the extra amount of revenue these add's bring in to help keep this site as amazing as it is. I have to say, thats so very very generous of you.
Oh wait ?? no maybe you want the site to turn into a pay site where we would have to all $5.00 for the "Premium" content we now get for what again ??? Oh right !
FREE !!!
Actually come to think of it, Dear MMORPG.com team, I really hate Anarchy Online, I think what they've done with their MMO is pathetic and even though this is just a personal oppinion, it's bellow you guys to have their banners on your web page, I will have to insist you remove everything about them, forever !!!
But don't worry about advertising income, Zarcob is picking up the tab.
i thought you were a nice kind and gentle woman.........
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Just got the new edition of PCGamer and there is a letter from the editor on how they will not take ad money from gold farmers., costing them 'hundreds of thousands of annual ad revenue'
to quote him, "Screw them"
thought the letter was awesome and wish the rest of the greedy sites/magazines would follow suit
that article was a sham PC gamer was just trying to attract more MMO players to subscribe.
because the IGE and similar companies cannot afford to advertise with PC gamer.
seriously Nvidia, Ati, dell, etc. all have bigger pockets then IGE.
that article defintely was just a sham IGE wouldnt really have the cash to advertise with them.
im not saying IGE doesnt make a lot of cash its just not in the same damn league.
PC gamer does do a great job of overglorifying itself, as the sole defender of PC games against a lot of threats but they seriously didnt have the balls that even AOTS does in dealing with people like hilary clinton and Jack thompson.
the IGE article was their pretending to be brave while hiding from the shells sent by those who bash video games.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
I'm assuming, since you are "Insisting", that you are willing to send in the extra amount of revenue these add's bring in to help keep this site as amazing as it is. I have to say, thats so very very generous of you.
Oh wait ?? no maybe you want the site to turn into a pay site where we would have to all $5.00 for the "Premium" content we now get for what again ??? Oh right !
FREE !!!
Actually come to think of it, Dear MMORPG.com team, I really hate Anarchy Online, I think what they've done with their MMO is pathetic and even though this is just a personal oppinion, it's bellow you guys to have their banners on your web page, I will have to insist you remove everything about them, forever !!!
But don't worry about advertising income, Zarcob is picking up the tab.
i thought you were a nice kind and gentle woman.........
Hmm, well nice and kind
, most of the times maybe... but gentle ? Only if you start squirming 
.
And besides, there's only so much ignorance I can take, especially when it comes to this subject.
MMORPG.com is like this amazing, completely original website, and they don't charge us a dime for it, I just don't think it's fair that someone thinks they can dictate where they can make what money they do from the site.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
How can an IGE advertisement ever be offensive?
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
If you agree that selling gold hurts MMOGs, then of course selling add space here does. It's easy however to say it doesn't matter, people have always been good at ignoring a problem when doing so works in thier favor.
Selling add space to a paying customer is NOT doing a disservice to anyone. Get a grip.
If you agree that selling gold hurts MMOGs, then of course selling add space here does. It's easy however to say it doesn't matter, people have always been good at ignoring a problem when doing so works in thier favor.
MMORPG.COM isn't selling gold.
MMORPG.COM is selling ADD SPACE to a website that allows the trade of in game items for currency.
If YOU want to boycott IGE then by all means do so. But unless you're planning to pay the fees that IGE is currently paying MMORPG.COM to air their adds then you don't have a leg to stand on. It's a pointless arguement. Unless you plan to fork over some cash to defray the cost of MMORPG.COM shutting down an advertizer then give it a rest.
This site is expensive as hell to run I'm sure. They have to pay for several different servers, tons of bandwidth and DNS name space annually. You going to start funding them? Unless you plan to then you best be quiet. Because you don't go turning down advertizers on principle in the web industry. Those who advertize online are fairly few and far between. Especially on a site DEDICATED To MMORPG players. It's not like Ford or Chrysler or Best Buy or Target are likely to buy add space here.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Whoa, so many new and brilliant arguments on this subject.
I'm convinced.
Next!
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
This site runs numerous ads all over the place all generating them revenue. If they took down the IGE banner Im sure they can easily find another ad to run unless no one else wants to run ads on this site(which is a new problem entirely).
Secondly, people constantly spout that the IGE banner is the final source of revenue which helps keep this site afloat after its numerous costs. You have no idea if thats true and in all likelihood, its not. Also, that poll the previous poster put up was classic. Over half of all mmorpg gamers see it as a problem. Why on earth would you even take the chance of adding to the problem? A problem where, if you are educated on the subject, realize that is has broader societal implications(as in the poor labor conditions in SE Asia). Supporting IGE is supporting the impoverished conditions that thousands have to endure. This is fact. A direct correlation. IGE isn't supported by rich players who want to unload some gold. Its supported by the farmers who make 75$ a month working 12hours/7days a week to supply this broad stream of gold. Farmers who, if you actualy read on the subject based on the two articles, are botting & hacking ingame to increase their revenue. Further, they have IGE to cover their tracks(facts stated in the articles) so the GM's of the various games can't stop them. Yet people here, supposedly mmo fans go "meh..who cares".
Im not going to go on a pedestal and say no one anywhere should use IGE or that no site should ever post their ads. Hardly. I just think a mmo site shouldn't promote a phenomenon that many see as a real problem to the industry.
Nobody is saying it's their only source of revenue there blinder-boy. What we're saying is this:
This site is run by someone trying to make themselves a nickel. IGE pays them money to advertize here. If you want them to yank the add then kindly inquire as to the cost of losing IGE as an advertizer and stroke them a check each month to cover the loss. If you're not willing to do that then stop posting about it.
Hell, if adds bother you so much then get an add blocker program.
Sheez.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Each & every time the IGE-thread pops-up its always the same arguments for & against.
That's the real problem here though isn't it, I mean once we get past all you boys doing your little peeing contest, what it really comes down to is who is right and who is wrong. You say many see IGE and IGE like-sites as a real problem, I completely agree with you, as a matter of fact, I hate that entire side of MMO's BUT not everyone does, not everyone thinks selling gold is wrong or buying it for that matter.
So who's right ? Who the heck knows, but is it up to MMORPG.com tell you or me, of course not. Freewill and marketing suck but it's appart of life. I don't like IGE, so I don't use them, I speak out against them when it's appropriate and I don't visit their page, that is what I can do.
Do I feel like I support them because mmorpg.com carries ad's by them, no way in hell. I watch TV now and then, they have commercials for various car companies selling SUV's which I think are completely horrible, do I hate Fox or NBC or CBC for taking money from a big car companies to adverties on their networks ? Of course, they makes no sense, instead I do what every other consumer does, I do not buy the product and or I do not pay attention to the companies advetersing.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I own an SUV
It's the only thing I'm willing to lug 3 kids a dog a bird and 2 gunnea pigs around in when we go on vacations or, especially, camping. No way am I stickin all that in my car (not that I could if I wanted to). And I think minivans are just f-ing ugly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I own an SUV
It's the only thing I'm willing to lug 3 kids a dog a bird and 2 gunnea pigs around in when we go on vacations or, especially, camping. No way am I stickin all that in my car (not that I could if I wanted to). And I think minivans are just f-ing ugly.
Metaphor... silly
Important Information regarding Posting and You
The whole 'if I don't like it I should pay them so they'll stop' point is stupid, but not surprising from you elnator. You are the person who says if you don't agree with me don't post in my threads person ( that's paraphasing of course )
If I think something isn't right I'm going to say something about it. It doesn't mean MMORPG.com is going to or has to stop doing it, but they will see how I feel about it. Just because this is a free site doesn't mean everyone has to just sit back and take whatever gets done here with a smile. If enough people voice thier opnion about IGE ads this site may decide to look else where.
Sites like IGE are not good for the MMOG industry. Considering how many games have been ruined trying to cater to the "casual, I want a win button" type players, I'm surprised any true MMOG fan isn't as outraged as the rest of us about the ad ( ok so outraged is just there for dramatic effect but you know what I mean :P ). For a site that makes it's living off those games advertising gold selling sites just because they have money is pretty short sighted imo.
So, no I wont offer any money to get the ad removed. Nor do I feel I should. I will howver voice my displeasure at seeing it, and ask the site admins to look else where for ad $. Now if you still feel anyone who ever disagrees with this type of thing should back it with an open wallet, I sure hope you bitch about your taxes.
Very brief summary / viewpoints
My own opinion is that IGE should go. And I don't mean "off this site".
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
The whole 'if I don't like it I should pay them so they'll stop' point is stupid, but not surprising from you elnator. You are the person who says if you don't agree with me don't post in my threads person ( that's paraphasing of course )
If I think something isn't right I'm going to say something about it. It doesn't mean MMORPG.com is going to or has to stop doing it, but they will see how I feel about it. Just because this is a free site doesn't mean everyone has to just sit back and take whatever gets done here with a smile. If enough people voice thier opnion about IGE ads this site may decide to look else where.
Sites like IGE are not good for the MMOG industry. Considering how many games have been ruined trying to cater to the "casual, I want a win button" type players, I'm surprised any true MMOG fan isn't as outraged as the rest of us about the ad ( ok so outraged is just there for dramatic effect but you know what I mean :P ). For a site that makes it's living off those games advertising gold selling sites just because they have money is pretty short sighted imo.
So, no I wont offer any money to get the ad removed. Nor do I feel I should. I will howver voice my displeasure at seeing it, and ask the site admins to look else where for ad $. Now if you still feel anyone who ever disagrees with this type of thing should back it with an open wallet, I sure hope you bitch about your taxes.
QFT
I think this sums up my thoughts pretty well. The way people in this forum jumped on the OP for his view i really truly thought was disgusting BTW.
and no this is nothing like SUV ads on TV.
Think about it though, in addition to what people have already said regarding labor camps, underpaid workers (alot of them underaged most likely) and the very factual point about whole games being ruined, there is also the fact that the secondary market is wholly illegal according to EULA's and intellectual property laws. Supporting IGE is supporting the black market. Do people realize that? IGE is selling and making hundreds of millions (no that is not an exaggerated number) off of something that is not theirs to begin with. They don't give a fuck about MMO's, it doesn't matter to them if games are becoming artificially hyper-inflated and becoming broken pieces of garbage.
It also strikes me as odd that people tell this guy to stop bitching and moaning about IGE when every single one of them have "bitched and moaned" about nerfs, and games having patches that screwed them up etc. Well the reason for this is devs trying to balance a game after the secondary industry has started to ravage a games economy.
I think alot of people don't know (want to know?)/care to know why the secondary market is bad, they just know alot of people don't like it for some reason. or maybe they think they know the reason and therefore think its not a big deal. I think its like politics, even though it directly affects people, they still don't care because they just don't want to deal with it. Well the truth is out there and it is VERY clear. ie its not "well who knows which side is right" argument.
So this is a very quick little flow sketch of what happens to games with IGE style farming and bottom feeding taking place:
Bottom feeding/ farming-->inflation/mudflation-->cheap gear/alot of gold in game economy-->players overpowered/game looses challenge-->game subscriber base depleting-->devs nerf/patch to make content challenging/ items to buy relative in cost to amount of gold in economy-->older content doesn't work with new content(they are unbalanced)--> devs add new skills/gameplay-->game is changed/unbalanced/ruined-->player base leaves-->game fails.
The middle steps may spiral on as long as devs want to keep patching/nerfing the game but after a few years the game will have completely changed. If you have not played EQ and never really understood why people always said that the early days were the best or "it was good until luclin", well theres your answer. the devs have to constantly change and revamp the game to keep it challenging and exciting and it got to a point where the old content was worthless and the new content was well...new and it just wasn't EQ as the old timers remembered it anymore.
of course a little mudflation happens without farming and what not, but newer games (at least the ones with smart devs) nowadays plan for it with money sinks, item loss, item repair costs ect. but the secondary market is making it impossible to keep a game "healthy" for a very long time.
So next time you're about to open you mouth to "whine and moan" about a game about a nerf or patch, consider the IGE add at the top of the page and ask if its really nessesary.
-Dunadurium
"Silly rabbit, WoW's for kids"
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I really, really do not understand why IGE advertisements should be removed. As there has been no challenge in court, IGE is a legitimate business and they provide income, through ads, for mmorpg.com.
If you find virtual item selling unethical or degrading for the mmorpg genre, that's just your opinion. There are others who believe otherwise and you should learn to tolerate different points of view.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
If IGE is so wonderful why do MMOGs ban gold/acount sellers any time they can prove they're doing so ? If MMOGs don't want them in thier games, why is a site like this promoting them ?
Durn good question... I know Adellion would ban people who used/supplied IGE in that game, because they want the game to live long and be worth playing.
The future: Adellion
Common flaw in MMORPGs: The ability to die casually
Advantages of Adellion: Dynamic world (affected by its inhabitants)
Player-driven world (beasts won't be an endless supply of mighty swords, gold will come from mines, not dragonly dens)
Player-driven world (Leadership is the privilege of a player, not an npc)
One thing that opponents to the ads are forgetting is that there is a contract for the space for the ad. My understanding is that the contract expires at the end of this year (or sometime shortly after) and will not be renewed.
Do not quote me, it was just a discussion in the staff forums.