Hate to break this to you but your poll won't mean very much. You just aren't going to have the numbers to prove anything either way. SOE/LA has the numbers to back up what they say. Each game, trial or free sub comes with a key or serial that can be tracked. So if they say that 80% are veteran players they have a way of tracking that and taking into account trials, free subs or whatever. We aren't privy to that info so a poll would be meaningless. The only thing that it would prove is that a certain percentage of MMORPG.com members who were veteran SWG players either play or don't play. It doesn't account for anybody else. Your poll is meaningless.
I have no real problem trusting the devs. I know for a fact the dev team doesn't always control what is going to happen in the game. The are given tasks to complete and they complete them. Sometimes these tasks can come from teams as far away as marketing. Developers will say what they know or what marketing or PR allows them to say. It is possible they would sugar coat what they know, but they aren't out to lie to you. Look at the possible damage lying can cause. It just isn't worth it in the long run.
Also, it is really rare for a dev to actually make a promise. They will post intentions and direction, but it is rare they make a guarantee or promise. However it is very common for people to take everything the dev says and mark it in stone. Any time I have worked with developers in a marketing, PR, consulting, community or CS capacity, I will always tell them to talk about what *will* happen and only list what *could* happen when it is very clear it is only a wish list.
Are we still talking about SOE/LA here? Given SOE's history, I think it's completely reasonable to have a real problem trusting them. These numbers are a jumbled mess of "sugar-coating".
I am not talking about SOE or LA as a company. I am talking about the devs. It was specifically stated to not trust the devs. I have no problem trusting the devs. Other than actually getting paid, the next thing on the devs professional plate is the desire to see players have fun in their game. I remember many times just sitting and watching devs crack up when they see one of their easter eggs found, or find out one of their creations was heralded in the forums of some fan site. The devs aren't out to lie to you. Lying doesn't change your in-game experience for the positive.
I also can't understand why it is so hard to believe the given numbers. It is very believable they would have 100,000 new accounts. They have a TV commercial for the game and they have been going on a marketing crazyfest. You can buy the game in WalMart and Target and it was pushed out just prior to Christmas. Anyone with a Star Wars fan, a computer, and an internet connection in the house is a possible buyer of this product. There is also a slew of people out there that haven't read the hate rants or changes to the game, they only know the game for what it is and not what it was. Not everyone hates this game, and not everyone thinks the NGE was the worst thing to ever happen to the game. It seems the hardest thing for some people to believe is that there are people actually enjoying this game because they don't.
As far as 80% of the vets still having active accounts. Again, I don't see the problem with this number. There could be many vets in the sit and wait phase right now. It is a classic cycle for any game change. This was a huge game change, I know, but it doesn't mean people aren't still waiting to see what happens. I bet some of the people in this forum still have active accounts as they cry in disbelief at the reported numbers. Remember, this still means 20% of the active vets cancelled their accounts after NGE. That is still a huge number.
We also have to remember most numbers reported are created accounts and not really surviving accounts. It is common practice. "<insert game here> has hosted over 600,000 accounts since launch in 2001!"
100,000 new accounts, 80% of all active accounts are pre-NGE, so they have an active playerbase of 500,000+? How many people believe that? It's all just very deceptive counting and reporting, standard practice as you point out.
And of course the issue isn't with the actual developers, they have little say over things. It's the producers and marketing people, who unfortunately also get the title of "dev". They are the ones who do choose to lie and have their motivations for it. The SOE/LA producers and marketers are the ones that have done things in the past to warrant the question of trust.
Need I bring up the timing of the ToOW expansion/advertising and the NGE release? How does a huge company that has released many expansions and products 'accidentally' make a huge mistake like that, especially with such a momentous change? They knowingly advertised items and extras for professions they knew full well were going to be removed soon because they knew they would lose vet accounts. Pushing the expansion out at the right time meant an extra boost of cash they might otherwise not gain if they released it later.
Those weren't the actions of the coders and game designers, it was the actions of the producers.
No, I don't think they have 500,000 players. It states 100,000 players join through the 10-day trial. That does not state they are active players. It just says 100,000 10-day trial accounts have been opened. There are other factors that make this believable other than the commercial being aired at the right time. There are probably a bunch of former SWG players (pre CU, early post launch, etc) jumping on the 10-day trial just to see what has changed or if they enjoy the game now or again. Whether they stay or not doesn't matter in that number.
I think it is really important to make a clarification between the development or production team and the marketing and PR teams. A lot of the coders, artists, and designers take unfair hits for decisions they never make.
Originally posted by Fadinaway No, I don't think they have 500,000 players. It states 100,000 players join through the 10-day trial. That does not state they are active players. It just says 100,000 10-day trial accounts have been opened. There are other factors that make this believable other than the commercial being aired at the right time. There are probably a bunch of former SWG players (pre CU, early post launch, etc) jumping on the 10-day trial just to see what has changed or if they enjoy the game now or again. Whether they stay or not doesn't matter in that number. I think it is really important to make a clarification between the development or production team and the marketing and PR teams. A lot of the coders, artists, and designers take unfair hits for decisions they never make.
Uh-oh Fadin, you're using logic to prove SOE is not the Anti-Christ, taht sort of thing isn't taken too well around here.
Comments
I have no real problem trusting the devs. I know for a fact the dev team doesn't always control what is going to happen in the game. The are given tasks to complete and they complete them. Sometimes these tasks can come from teams as far away as marketing. Developers will say what they know or what marketing or PR allows them to say. It is possible they would sugar coat what they know, but they aren't out to lie to you. Look at the possible damage lying can cause. It just isn't worth it in the long run.
Also, it is really rare for a dev to actually make a promise. They will post intentions and direction, but it is rare they make a guarantee or promise. However it is very common for people to take everything the dev says and mark it in stone. Any time I have worked with developers in a marketing, PR, consulting, community or CS capacity, I will always tell them to talk about what *will* happen and only list what *could* happen when it is very clear it is only a wish list.
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com
I am not talking about SOE or LA as a company. I am talking about the devs. It was specifically stated to not trust the devs. I have no problem trusting the devs. Other than actually getting paid, the next thing on the devs professional plate is the desire to see players have fun in their game. I remember many times just sitting and watching devs crack up when they see one of their easter eggs found, or find out one of their creations was heralded in the forums of some fan site. The devs aren't out to lie to you. Lying doesn't change your in-game experience for the positive.
I also can't understand why it is so hard to believe the given numbers. It is very believable they would have 100,000 new accounts. They have a TV commercial for the game and they have been going on a marketing crazyfest. You can buy the game in WalMart and Target and it was pushed out just prior to Christmas. Anyone with a Star Wars fan, a computer, and an internet connection in the house is a possible buyer of this product. There is also a slew of people out there that haven't read the hate rants or changes to the game, they only know the game for what it is and not what it was. Not everyone hates this game, and not everyone thinks the NGE was the worst thing to ever happen to the game. It seems the hardest thing for some people to believe is that there are people actually enjoying this game because they don't.
As far as 80% of the vets still having active accounts. Again, I don't see the problem with this number. There could be many vets in the sit and wait phase right now. It is a classic cycle for any game change. This was a huge game change, I know, but it doesn't mean people aren't still waiting to see what happens. I bet some of the people in this forum still have active accounts as they cry in disbelief at the reported numbers. Remember, this still means 20% of the active vets cancelled their accounts after NGE. That is still a huge number.
We also have to remember most numbers reported are created accounts and not really surviving accounts. It is common practice. "<insert game here> has hosted over 600,000 accounts since launch in 2001!"
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com
100,000 new accounts, 80% of all active accounts are pre-NGE, so they have an active playerbase of 500,000+? How many people believe that? It's all just very deceptive counting and reporting, standard practice as you point out.
And of course the issue isn't with the actual developers, they have little say over things. It's the producers and marketing people, who unfortunately also get the title of "dev". They are the ones who do choose to lie and have their motivations for it. The SOE/LA producers and marketers are the ones that have done things in the past to warrant the question of trust.
Need I bring up the timing of the ToOW expansion/advertising and the NGE release? How does a huge company that has released many expansions and products 'accidentally' make a huge mistake like that, especially with such a momentous change? They knowingly advertised items and extras for professions they knew full well were going to be removed soon because they knew they would lose vet accounts. Pushing the expansion out at the right time meant an extra boost of cash they might otherwise not gain if they released it later.
Those weren't the actions of the coders and game designers, it was the actions of the producers.
No, I don't think they have 500,000 players. It states 100,000 players join through the 10-day trial. That does not state they are active players. It just says 100,000 10-day trial accounts have been opened. There are other factors that make this believable other than the commercial being aired at the right time. There are probably a bunch of former SWG players (pre CU, early post launch, etc) jumping on the 10-day trial just to see what has changed or if they enjoy the game now or again. Whether they stay or not doesn't matter in that number.
I think it is really important to make a clarification between the development or production team and the marketing and PR teams. A lot of the coders, artists, and designers take unfair hits for decisions they never make.
Fadinaway
Playerbase Solutions
http://www.playerbasesolutions.com