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Review of SoG/DnL The first 3 weeks (rather long)
Zippy
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,412
While waiting for the servers to come up I put some thoughts down about SoG/DnL's first 3 weeks. This review is based on playing one character to lvl 17 in 3-4 hours yesterday and 2 others to lvl 12 before the shutdown. I will update it if the server comes back up and I reach max level.
I. Graphics
I do not have a problem with the graphics quality. Generally I just want some minimum amount of graphical quality and then its all about gameplay.
When I started the game and saw the character creation I was worried the graphics would be a problem. For me they are not.
The command, /enginesetquality high, helps but overall the graphics are dated. The game has the look of a game that was released in 2002.
A. Character models
Poor, stiff and lacking in detail. They dont look like they are alive. Mobs look boring with little detail. Well below the standard of most games. Lack of armor and items that can make your character appear unique lowers the quality even more.
B. World
Well done and beautiful. The view distance is outstanding. What is lacking are places to explore. Towns. Npc camps, dungeons and outdoor dungeons. They have a huge world that is just not populated with buildings, towns and places of interest.
C. Weather effects
Well done. Fog looks good as does lightening. I have not seen any snow or sandstorms. Presently there is no benefit or detriment to weather.
D. Artwork
Hard to say in regards to artwork as there is little in the game except a world. Buildings that are in are poorly done.
Tents and mud Buildings in the starter areas look poor and are lacking any style or attention to detail. Walls do not fit in with terrain. The same can be said for the charcter models. Outside of the geographical world everything is blah.
E. Camera
The camera does not move smoothly when moving it or when it follows the character. Objects often get in the way. Becomes annoying. Needs a lot of work
Overall Graphics
Poor. While the sharpness of the graphics look somewhat below average at high settings the overall quality is much lower. The beauty of the world makes up somewhat for lack of quality of the character models, npcs, and artwork. But despite what is lacking the graphics are not a hindrance to playing the game.
II. Sound
The musical scores like much of the game seem to be just thrown together with little thought. The music quickly become Repetitive and annoying.
III. Gameplay
A. Novelties
This game specializes in Novelties. In a sense it is like going to the circus. Not a lot of substance but a few spectacular acts. Flying is well done and helps to show off the world. Snowboarding, parachuting are all nice. But the fun wears off fast.
B. UI
Outdated, clunky and cumbersome. Not intuitive. It needs an overhaul. Once you play a bit its gets better but its still a liability. If the game is ever completed it can and most likely will improved by more tool tips, better information, more intuitive commands and a cosmetic modernizing of the interface. My first reaction was the UI is bad and will never get better. I think I was wrong and it will be fixed, updated and modernized very easily.
C. Quests
None. Well one.
D. Character progression
One can max out to lvl 35 in a day of playing. One of the things that killed Shadowbane at launch was leveling was far to fast. Within 3 weeks of Shadowbanes release I had 4 level 59 characters. People quickly left as there was nothing to do. Long leveling cycles not only give players something to do they give developers time to add additional content and keep their player base happy. That being said leveling needs to be fun. That means different things for different playstyles. It could mean good questing, fun combat, a reason to kill mobs, great character advancement system where you look forward to new skills or maybe all of the above
E. Crafting
None. Promises that players will be able to build towns, weapons and armor. No resource nodes such as mines, minerals, plants, etc.
F. PvP
AT present time there is little point to pvp. There is no reason to fight someone. No prizes, rewards or character advancement for pvping. The only reason to pvp besides to cause others grief is that there is nothing else to do.
IV. Combat
A. Mob A1.
Almost none. Mobs wander around a little bit. They assist if they see other Mobs in fights. Some will agro you if you come close but most are non-aggro. Some mobs have one special attack. Occasionally they will run at low health. A typical fight against a spider goes as follows. Pull spider with spell or ranged weapon. Wait and 10 seconds as spider cast some kind of poison spell at you. A green arrow will slowly move from the spider to you. Then the spider will charge you. You fight it with spells or melee. The spider dies. The variations to this fight are occasionally the spider will not cast the green poison spell until the middle of the fight. Maybe its a resist or maybe it has 2 scripts. Other than that mobs have no other special attacks or intelligence.
B. Mob camps
No real camps or outdoor dungeons. Mob camps are essentially just a few mobs wandering around waiting for someone to kill them. Little strategy needed in pulling. No dungeons or camps that I have seen. No treasures or areas that need to be cleared to access. There is no feeling that the mobs have any purpose other than that they just happened to show up.
C. Skills
The skill trees look like they were thrown together in a rush a few weeks ago with little or no thought. Many skills are either worthless, broken or placeholders. I might be wrong but I think by level 50 we will have enough points to learn every available skill. Making every player identical with every player of the same class. So no planning is needed and everyone will be the same. Except at some point they will add more skills past 50 that can be discovered or learned through quests. What I cant tell you is how well the skill trees mesh in groups. But the game looks like it was hurried and thrown together with almost no testing.
.
D. Camera
It gets in the way occasionally. Combat does seem a bit smoother thanks to the 12/29 patch. Pets and world objects such as tree often block the view.
E. Pets
To many. They get in the way. dont help a lot and annoying..
F. Technical and challenge
Rather than build on what has worked in past games and make something better Farlan has gone backwards and have not included what is in most modern games combats systems. For example there are no positional attacks that I have seen, no reactionary attacks, no chain attacks, no group specials. No evades, dodges, blocks or parries. There is no challenge in combat and nothing is included in combat from any of the modern games. While I dont approve of the terms 1st generation, 2nd generation, etc as they have no clear meaning and dont add anything to the discussion except confusion the idea behind calling games different generation is valid. Has the game improved upon what was done in previous games.
For example in EQ1 the combat system at release can be characterized by turning on auto-attack and going to the kitchen to make coffee. DAOC built upon EQ1 and introduced us to special attacks, positional attacks (from behind or side), reactionary attacks (after a block or evade), chain attacks (where one could combine 4 special attacks in a row). Shadowbane brought us stances. FFXI added group special attacks. Vanguard hopes to bring us all this plus perception (where you can see and react to your opponents next planned move in depending on your skill and experience fighting that kind of mob) and at some point possibly mounted combat and ship combat.
SoG not only does not bring us anything new it doesnt have any of the features of past games. In a sense its a major step backward in combat. Combat is simply not interactive.
Farlan has said the combat system needs to redone and they will overhaul the entire combat system in the next month or two. What that actually that means for a realistic time frame who knows. In Horizons beta David Bowman often said they planned to redo their entire combat system before launch. It was never done as they were constantly putting out fires up until release. DnL has a much worse problem as there game is not anywhere as near advanced as Horizons or Shadowbane were 12 months prior to their releases.
G. Fun
Not fun yet. All mobs are basically the same. Each fight is the same. No skill, planning or thought is needed for fights. There is no purpose for fighting except to gain experience and loot. No objectives such as dungeons to clear, camps to clear, bosses to kill or quests to fulfill. Skills are lacking. The trend in new games is to give many mobs classes and the same abilities the players have. Combat here is a snoozefest.
Overall Combat
Lacking of everything a modern game should have. A step backwards in combat. No positional attacks, no reactionary attacks. Nothing that we have seen in previous games for 5 years now. Every fight is the same. Mobs lack individuality, intelligence and a variety of special attacks and scripts. Combat is simply not fun or interactive.
V. Community
A few years ago DnL had a very strong and mature community. Because of delays, communication problems and the perception that Farlan has been lying to its customer base most of the community has left the game. With the poor release of SoG I would estimate 95% of the community that was interested in DnL 3 weeks ago has moved on. What is left is a young, ragged and immature playerbase. Many are here just because the game is free, many because they have invested so much of their time and many because they have nothing better to do. But the common trait shared by much of the remaining community is anger. Anger that the game is not good, anger that the game is dying, anger at other people, anger that other people do not agree with them, anger with themselves and just anger at life in general.
When things go bad people often react badly. This is the case with the DnL community. Its in shreds. The main boards are chaos. If the game does not close things will most likely get better. Many of the bad ones will move on to new games. Those that are left will have to have patience. Most likely the community will become close knit and tight. While the community may never be as mature as many older games it will most likely be small enough where reputation matters. Reputations will often encourage better behavior.
VI. SoG is DnL
Farlan would be crazy to release us SoG if they had something better to show us. There is no reason to drive off your customer base and make yourself look this bad. Rather it makes sense that they dont want to admit this is all they have. We have all heard the numerous rumors that the numbers match that of the beta version, that the beta test is closed down, and that beta testers say this is actually a more advanced version of the game. I cant think of any reason why they are not right.
VII. Stability
The first 3 weeks the servers were up about 10-12 hours total. That is a record for poor stability. I have beta tested 3 of the worst games for stability Shadowbane, AO, and Horizons. None were ever even close to this bad. When the servers cam back up on the 29th we were treated to 12 hours of stability. We all have raved that this was great. Normally it would not be but its a huge improvement.
What gives me hope for stability is that DnL does not suffer the same lag problems other games had. It just crashes and the server is never up. But when the server is up there is little lag. In that sense they are way ahead of these other games in terms of stability.
VIII. Overall
The world is beautiful. I would like to end the review here as there is nothing else of substance in the game. This game is a circus. The circus acts are well done. Flying, snowboarding and hang gliding are great the 1st time. In WoW I loved the gryphon ride the first time. The 2nd time I went and got some coffee. Novelties are novelties and they wear off fast.
The core of any game is gameplay and combat and this is where DnL/SoG is severely lacking. The combat and gameplay here take a step backwards. Combat is simply not fun or interactive. It lacks many if not all of the modern innovations brought to us by previous games. Outside combat what is there to do? No questing? No crafting? The game is completely lacking of anything to do except pvp and pvp does not have any incentive.
The question we then have to ask is what is the future of this game. The game has been in development for 5 years. A beautiful world has been a built. But nothing else. How long will it take to put in a crafting system, pvp siege system, redo the combat system, make the game stable, balance everything. My guess is if you gave this game to a competent dev team they could give us a barebones game in 18-24 months. With this dev teams track record I dont think they could do that in 5 or 10 years.
Will they release this with minor tweaks. Maybe? Who will pay to play this. Not many. Really the future looks brighter for Irth Online. If this game could keep a playerbase of 10,000 people that would be quite an accomplishment from what they look like now. They simply just dont have the time. For competition all they have in the immediate future is RF Online which I am not particularly fond of. But RFO some time this summer will be releasing a polished well made game identical to the game that has already been released in Korea. That will provide at least a temporary home for many of the pvp fans.
The amount of work needed to complete this game is just overwhelming. At best I can see it being an unfinished poorly made niche game that will have a max population of 10,000. At worst it will fold before its April release date. Whether you are a fan or critic of DnL its sad to see ideas and dreams die. The ideas and the world truly had potential if placed in more competent hands. It is such a shame to see 5 years of hopes and dreams result in such a poorly made game.
Comments
I was going to post something similar as I have stated in my Initial Review of DnL: SoG.
But you summed up everything that I would say and it a good format too
I linked this in the DnL Forums.
Let us see what the aftermath will be like.
______________________________
My Sager 5760 Review
Well first Zippy, great post
.
You painted a picture, thats for sure. I can't say whether I agree or dissagree with any of it, because I became tired of the NP/Farlane drama a while back and decided I'd never put any more then a passing interest in the game and never ever play it. So really all I have to go on is the many comments I've seen on and about SoG and DnL, most of which are very similar to what your writen here.
It really is a shame, like you said, that after five years this is all they really have to show for their work, such a horrible show of dissrespect to their future playerbase if you ask me. I remember seeing the feature list and idea set for DnL 3 or 4 years ago and I thinking to myself that if you could pull it off, it would be the MMO to end all MMO's. I think we starting to see that that's not going to happen.
What a waste.
Best of luck Zippy, I hope this game can turn around for you and the other players, it would be awesme to see you all get what you really wanted and very very much so DESERVED.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Posts like this are, unfortunatly, a rarety - very well done.
While some people might argue that there are quests (I know of one - the starter quest) and positional attacks (hiting an enemy in the back gives a dmg bonus) this review is very informative and in most parts absolutely correct. Above all it is kept in a very "neutral" style an focuses on facts.
So again, well done!
please dont try to tear it apart by starting useless debates about small details. I think everyone who actually played SoG to at least lvl 15-20 has experienced exactly the same things as the OP.
I miss DAoC
Mourning is still trying to claw itself back from the ashes even with its "Excellent" reputation.
I also find it interesting that Egomancer decided to come out of the shadows and around the same time the Pioneer Pre-orders was happening.
But ya it is an excellent review of the CURRENT state of SoG.
As I type this, there are already fanbois trying to tear apart this review in the D&L Forums that I linked above.
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My Sager 5760 Review
This is the most accurate review of the current state of DnL I have read so far. I have considered writing one myself but I can clearly see that is not needed now. Thanks and great job.
I would like to add that if this is what the dev team has accomplished in 5 years, dont' hold your breath for any major improvements now that they have to support a somewhat live game.
-d
Thanks for the kind comments and posting it on the official boards. I can't say its an objective review as I did not get to max level and there are a lot of things and places I have not seen. But I feel I do have a good feel for the game. Objective no I am certainly a critic of the game. My honest opinion yes. Truly, I was tired of reading post after post by fanboys saying how great the game is but not telling us why. I would hope it would encourage some fanboys to write in detail why they like the game or give their own thought s on how the combat system here is as good or better than other games.
I am suprised that so many agree with it on the official forums. I have seen a few other posts there that have been started recently about how poor the combat is. We can talk about dragon flying and snowboarding all day but combat is what will keep people playing. My guess is over the next few weeks we will see more and more of the "I am bored and the combat stinks posts."
Well thanks again for the nice words. I don't deserve them but its nice to hear them anyway.
heh they'll probably do something like Isobar and give it a 10/10 on Gameplay. While then listing about 20 things that's wrong with gameplay. (Just exaggerating a bit
)
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Zippy, I've gotta say, "well done review." It was honest and detailed with facts and not filled with mere speculation or rampant fanboi/flamer opinions...which is common these days.
I agree with several points. Mostly though, I agree with what you said about the game's world. The world in-game is a fabulous idea and has alot of promise. Everybody who's anybody who ever played a MMO felt cramped or confined by the game they played at one time or another. That's the real appeal of DnL - that the world is supposed to be huge & limitless. I know that's what drew me to it in the first place.
The problem is, you have to have something to fill that world. Questing and crafting are a HUGE part of the MMO experience, much more so in a limitless world like DnL. The fact that there is no crafting, like only 1 quest, and PvP is as crippled as it is now leaves me pessimistic that Farlan can finish DnL at all, let alone by April 2006. Like you said, perhaps a competent game development team could take this and churn out a barebones (but solid) store release in 1.5 - 2 years. Farlan/NP3? No way. They've proven they cannot for 4 years now.
Honestly, I don't feel any pain for Farlan. They got themselves into this and you reap what you sow. I used to feel sad for the fanbase, the truely innocent. But the innocent have all moved out. Now, I really don't feel sorry for the fanbase that remains. You were right to say they are all angry. They are, and it shows. Angry about what... well that varies, but anger is the common thread. It's sickening. I get enough anger IRL, I don't pay to play a fantasy game just to escape into more anger... do you? Of course not. The threads over at DnL forums are a disgrace to a once great forums. 99% of the people there have a late '05 join date, and it shows.
I love it when (by love I really mean hate) people get into arguments about "Sog is not DnL" and "We didn't pay for SoG, we paid for DnL" and "DnL is not SoG, wait until April!" Those people are ignorant. They do not comprehend that SoG = the pinnacle of Farlan's success to this point. You don't put out a product as bad as SoG unless you have to. Last beta version of DnL = v88.80. SoG= v88.81. You do the math. SoG is DnL, they just changed the name to protect the innocent. What you see in SoG is not the tip of the iceberg, its the whole darn thing.
Very well done review. I gave the game a very fair shot, and everything you have stated is pretty much right on the money. The game does have it's up sides, the world is HUGE and certain aspects (particularily the world) of the graphics are well done. But the negatives far outmatch the positives. There is basically no quests, shops are almost non-existent, character models could have been done 4 years ago, fighting is a joke (very poorly done, no innovation) and the world is so incredibly empty.
I wanted to like this game, but it just didn't let me do it.
Very good review. I would advice anyone interested in this game to read it and think again if DnL is really worth bothering...
I liked the review, had a lot of thought put into it, I can't say I agree with it.
They did say this would take time, and SoG was to help people get organised before DnL, so at least all the learning will be behind us and DnL can get off to a good start politcally.
The Devs also said before SoG release that features would be added in over time, and the Devs would learn through SoG how to make DnL better.
This prequel could be the best thing to getting the game half-way decent before retail launch, could make for a bloody good game if the Community and Devs do this right!
thanks for the review!
I spent some time to get the game running without getting bluescreens after the support team "dream"-anything gave me the hint that I had to delete "dnl.cfg" and "dnl.ini" in order to be able to start the game at all after downloading it
now, after taking a look into the game and being attracted by the huge line of sight, I can delete the rest of the game too instead of "wasting time" with the lacking gameplay you discribed there
Well i find this is the worst way i have spent 60$ and i tell ya i like to play poker and make sport bets
heh i even tried to sell it on ebay and they took out my sell
This game got nothing.....
Here is a link to a thread on how to get a refund. They are still taking refunds until the 7th. One poster on the main forums said that clickandbuy told him they had gotten over 3,000 refund requests as of 2.5 weeks ago. I got my Pioneer money refunded and I am guessing most have done so as well.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/508/loadthread/61619/setstart/1/loadclass/173
Very good review, Zippy. I must admit I especially appreciate the fact that you liked the part of the game that was my contribution to the DnL project (mainly the terrain and weather system). Maybe if we are lucky, NPCube will find how to reactivate the original sandstorms and snow functions that existed but you apparently didn't see in SoG.
As to the rest of DnL for now, well, I feel sorry you did not appreciate. But let the developers do their job. After all, they still have three-four months left... The procedural terrain/weather tech took me six years of R&D, way before NPCube/Farlan/DnL ever existed, so good luck to them.
Anyhow as you said above, there are many other promising games to come, but hush....
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
You will have a better deal getting a refund.
Like I said before, those SoG Pioneer Accounts that sell for over $60 are only that way due to bids getting hyped by the same people
Do not worry about the January 7th Deadline.
They have no legal grounds to not allow you to have a Refund even once D&L Goes live.
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My Sager 5760 Review
This game really caught my eye,when i first heard about it,but after a few weeks on the forums,i quickly lost interest.
Your post sounds true to the heart and quite believable.The problem is that different people have different views of a game.I have heard people say things about certain games .that i would totally dissagree with.I really wish i had a chance to beta test this one.I agree with one thing you said>>>>take what games have done in the past 5 yrs and improve on them.
1 battle system
2 crafting
3 questing
These three areas are the staple of any MMORPG.In the hands of capable designers,these areas could be enhanced,to keep players interests for a couple years,so that new content and ideas could be brought into the game.I agree with your thoughts on gimmicks.Putting gimmick ideas into a game before improving on the 3 staples,is a step in the wrong direction.You could however incorporate the gimmicks into the 3 staples,to bring out a more entertaining game.
I don't see myself buying this game without some sorta free trail.Every game that has confidence in it's product,should have this.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Soooooo......2 months after release of SOG ...... What has changed?
The OP's review STILL stands.
/nod
Good post.
Correct me if I am wrong but it does not look to me as if anything has changed since this review was written. Stability has improved somewhat but no real content has been added. The fan base has dissapeared. Out of the 30,000 that were granted access to SoG only about a 100 are left playing.
I have yet to see a fanboy attempt to make a factual review or evena articulate something positive about DnL other than it has potential. Everything has potential. There are a few fanboys left that still seem to cling to the idea of a mircle game being hidden somewhere on reunion island.
Farlan continues to promise anything and everything to everyone but still has the same problem delivering anything with any content that will ove the game beyond being just a graphical chat room. My advice would be to choose AIM or MSN over DnL. Not only do they have more features than DnL but they are free and infintely more stable and reliable.
no, nothing has changed, not even the stability, just the excuses are getting more and more ..shall we say creative? Even with the small amount of players now, there are still horrible lag and crash issues occuring daily.