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do you like to raid? (poll)
angerr
Member Posts: 865
do you like to raid? do you think the average mmorog gamer that likes to raid is a minority? discuss 
edit: wow it totally butchered my post, i originally had 4 choices and it messed up my grammar a bit and i cant edit it
oh well you get the idea...
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Comments
No, and it's one of the many reason's I resist the drug called World of Warcraft. I do play but do NOT take part in the huge raids for some uber piece of equipment or to complete some ill-thought level 60 quest. I more or less, just do PvP now and chat with my guildmates, I am sick to my stomache of the grind and avoid the "Raid" stuff like its gang-green.
Yes. I love the endgame isntances in Wow. Great fun together with your guild.
The raiding content is the only actual challenge in an MMOG. It usually takes quite a few failed efforts before you kill a raid boss, it requires a lot of strategy and organisation. I love going to raids, not for the loot, but just for the extra challenge.
What I hate about raids, however, is the time lost trying to organise such an event. It's difficult, at least for a casual guild, to organise 25+ people. At least 1/4th of them will show up late, for instance, wasting half an hour of your time doing nothing.
The other problem with raid content is that many MMOGs design them specifically for raid guilds. Raid guilds are not suitable for me, as they usually mean a lot of obligations. Casual guilds, on the other hand, do not easily manage to get a reasonable force to actually raid, because such content is made without considering its suitability for casual guilds.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
I will agree that raid content has its place in MMO's. But I believe it is more of an "Oh, this is easy and it's been done before, so we know we can do it" endgame. It's not that it's poorly implemented, raid encounters are usually quite fun, not to mention difficult, it's the fact that the concept itself is so flawed, at least when there is no other suitable end-game solutions.
In truth, raid content is not "hard" as in its difficulty, but it's a big pain in the ass. If you defeat a raid boss once, you can know, almost without doubt that you can do it again. The AI doesn't change tactics very often (or only in a limited style).
The "main" problem, however, is this: 1-3 tiers of raiding are fine, especially if the equipment is scaled so that it is not uber-godlike. After these 3 tiers, however, the items just become too ridiculous and then you have no where to go...
"Well I guess we could give the weapon more damage... or the armor more AC..."
"But they already have six-gazillion trillian!"
Eventually even +100 dmg or AC becomes redundant, and increasing it anymore makes the owner of the item Godlike.
Items, in my own view, should give an advantage over another player of somewhat equal level and skill, and item that makes you unkillable to a skilled player (or a group of them) your own level is beyond retarded.
Magic items in Fantasy Novels are none-to-rare, but rarely does such great power come without cost. Usually the most powerful magical items are, in fact, evil and while they do give their user strength, they slowly subvert him to the "Dark Side".
Cheers,
Gray Shadow
Haha...such a poll would be better if MMORPG.com staff would run it, front page.
You must consider this...most casuals who actually don't enjoy raiding are not even bothering to surf the internet...so you have a "hardcore" predominance in the answers here.
But even among the hardcores, I expect a majority to say they dislike raiding...add the casuals who doesn't even bother to visit the online sites...and the overwhelming majority doesn't want raiding.
I would prefer a more neutral attitude and question, maybe you could have No I doesn't like to raid and No I don't raid (but may like raiding even if you doesnt). I dunno...the clarity of the question is in question.
I quit a game when I reach a place where they change the gameplay and enforce something lame on me, raiding is the prime example but not the only example.
PS: I already made similar pools, and the majority of players say they didn't like "enforced raiding"...it was like a 80% to 20%...all depend on the way you formulate the question...since raiding in EQ/WoW is enforced...now you question kinda pretend raiding is not enforced...while in fact, in every MMO I play so far, it was always enforced.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Is everybody here yet?
No, a few more still coming and we have to wait for the other priests.
Oh crap the MT had to leave.
Ack, a Hunter keeps asking to join; tell him we're full.
Dammit, two people are LD.
Is everybody here yet?
OK, I think we're ready. Let's just enter and we can TP them to us later.
Oh damn, three people crashed as they entered.
Hey! Don't start pulling them yet! We're not ready! Ack!
Dammit! We wiped!
Is everybody here yet?
Nope, the other priest can't come. Grrr.
OK, see if you can get a Druid.
I keep telling the Hunter we are full, but he still keeps asking to come.
Is the MT back yet?
Nope, but the Druid in bearform says he can be MT, heh heh heh.
Is everybody here yet?
Yeah, they all got back in spirit form -- looks like we are all ready.
OK, let's enter.
OK, pull!!!
Ack! No, no ... too far into the room, PATROL!
Ack, arg, run! Ack, group wipe!
OK, let's run back in spirit form really fast and go back in.
OK, we all ready to start again?
Errr, guild is calling me for errr something, I gotta go.
Yeah, me too, I uhhhh gotta eat supper.
Ummm, me too, I gotta eat supper with the guild or whatever. Cyas!
Grrr, ok, ok, let's try to get two full groups again, k?
Hello?
~~~
Yeah, I love raids ...
~ Ancient Membership ~
I would vote no. My only raiding experience is with WoW, so that's all I have to draw on. A raid equipped character in WoW DOES have an unfair advantage, as nothing even close can be found in a small instance. It is my personal belief that if they (blizzard) were to take all the raid gear and duplicate it across EXTREMELY difficult 5-10man instances, the large raids would almost completely die out.
Honestly raids should be about accomplishment, and fun, not gear. Unfortunately in games like wow (and I'm willing to bet EQ2) equipment is everything, and that's how you get it.
SWG was so far ahead of it's time with it's equipment system(best stuff was made by highly dedicated crafter players). Now sony's turned it into a wannabe WoW-Diablo hybrid. /lament
I think I'm pretty much in sync with Anofayle on this. I do my share of griping about raiding but the real problem isn't that a game has raiding. The real problem is that games with raiding never give you any real choice at high level.
It's always---raid or nothing.
If a game had raiding but also had equally viable non-raiding alternatives to character advancement I would have no reason at all to complain about raiding. You do your thing and I'll do my thing.
Apparantly the only reason raid supporters hate the idea of an alternative is because they think that if there is any other choice then no one would do raids. I've heard this time and time again, "If there were any non-raid way to get uber gear then nobody would go on raids."
I don't understand this logic at all. If people really enjoy raiding then wouldn't they do it even if the rewards-per-unit-of-time-investment were exactly the same as non-raid content provided?
And if people hate raiding so much that they would prefer to do ANYTHING other than raiding, then why bother having raiding in a game to begin with?
Unfortunately I believe that raid supporters are correct in thinking that if there is any alternative to raiding then there wouldn't be enough people willing to go on raids. Because I don't think there are enough people who actually enjoy raiding. And that's why games with raiding will always be--raid or nothing.
So why do game developers continue to force us into raiding at high levels. As paranoid as it sounds I think a big reason is pressure from big guilds. Guild leaders need raiding because it makes people dependant on their guilds and this gives the leaders power over their members.
Another reason may be a simple lack of creativity. Devs need something to keep people busy at max level and it needs to be something that takes a lot of time. Apparantly they just can't come up with anything other than raiding to keep us occupied. They are stuck in a rut.
i actually had 4 answers but something weird happened to my post, it like messed words up or something i dunno. i have been having alot of problems with this site as of late. but I'm not going to use the term "enforced raiding" that will confuse people into thinking you have to raid to play the game. you are not forced to raid in any game, if you want the best loot you have to but raiding is by choice only.
and i tried to word it in a non biased way, but it got butchered and i cant edit it. yeah i do consider that most people here are hardcore, or semi hardcore. but the conversation we had on the vanguard forum was about hardcore gamers that don't like to raid
i would agree that casual gamers wont like to raid because they don't play enough, if you remember we used eq as an example...very few eq players were anything near casual. and from what i have read of your posts you are not casual either, so i thought we were arguing the original topic that had nothing to do with casual gamers.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Wow, are you a little biased? Where is the option "No, it takes no skill, and makes me sleepy". There are other reasons why raiding is bad for a game, but that is why I personally don't do it.
The reason it takes no skill.
1) ZERG. Your strategy is to simply overpower the mob with sheer numbers. Sure, you might have to try a few times to figure out which classes zerg best.
Bad for the game.
1) You have your non-raider fighting the same non-raid content the raider is. Hmmm, who is gonna have an easier time? This leads to a non-challenging game, yet rewards the raider the exact same.
2) Leaves people out. Lets face it. Some classes just aren't needed, or at least very limited.
You just can't have a balanced game with raid and non-raid content. Look at EQ their expansions are geared for people who are equipped in raid gear, yet many people are not. This led to a mass exodus when other games came out. How will the newbie catch up to people who are equipped with the best gear? They can't, because they need the gear in the content that no one does.
If you think raids are the only challenging part of a game, then you've played too much WoW. There are games where group play is very challengeing when you don't have someone equipped like a god.
yeah i will agree that in a pvp game you pretty much have to raid to be able to kill the people that are raid geared. but what about a pve game? what does it matter then? if you and your small group buddys are having fun and large raid people are having fun what difference does it make?
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I want a 4th option added to the poll:
No, raiding is a poor excuse for an end game and rather dull - or something like that
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I think daoc has the best raiding ever as you can buy boats to attack an own castles it is so cool fighting with your guild
Playin DAOC,WOW,Guild Wars, SWG
guys...if you are going to respond to a thread it helps to read the original post but i will repeat myself again in caps so you don't miss it this time...
I TRIED TO ADD A FOURTH ANSWER, I WANTED TO HAVE TWO NO AND TWO YES. IT WONT LET ME EDIT THE POLL. SOMETHING HAPPENED AND IT MESSED MY POST UP I DON'T KNOW WHY, I WISH I CAN FIX IT BUT I CANT SORRY!
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Well, you are right. I wasn't referring to soloing. Takes no skill to zerg something. Sorry, doesn't take skill to run a raid. Just takes a huge ego, and lots of time.
there are 2 knids of people in this world:those who understand sarcasm and those who dont