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The perfect MMORPG?
Huntn
Member Posts: 284
I've played Planetside for 18 months and WoW for 12 months and burned out on both. WoW was great while I was leveling. Now that my primary is capped at 60, the game no longer appeals to me. Besides no more leveling, the focus at 60 is to repeat large 40 player raid instances over and over. Is there a MMORPG where the end game focus is on exploration and not repetition?
Is there a MMORPG that has the following?
-Solo quests at all levels? (WoW)
-Small party quests at all levels? (WoW)
-Does not restrict the best equipment in the game to large raid instances? (Wow)
-Supports PvP without extreme lag?
-Does not penalize casual players?
-Rewards for exploration and keeps it fun at the top end? (I realize how subjective this is.)
Thanks!
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
Comments
Doesn't exist.
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No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
I'd have to agree that it does not exist, however there are some games I feel do a decent job of meeting your criteria. Unfortunately, quest requirements are best met in WoW. DAOC does have quests that will do the same, however they are much more difficult to find IMO as no NPC in game tells you where to find them, you just have to look at a spoiler or find them. Equipment wise, EQ2, SWG, AO, EVE and DAOC you can get a lot of the best equipment through single groupable questing and raiding or crafters. PvP without extreme lag is a tough one, but IMO the best low-lag / fun PvP available is in DAOC battlegrounds. When you refer to not penalizing casual players, I am assuming you are referring to the "restrict the best equipment in the game to large raid instances" question, and I believe in reality they are the same question phrased differently. The only games that I have played that reward (strictly) exploration are SWG and EQ2.
To be honest, I think that DAOC may be the best balance of what you are looking for. Sadly, this is an older game and is no longer on an upward trend (of subscribers etc), but should be around for quite some time with sufficient populations to make your gameplay enjoyable. If I had not given my main DAOC account to my friend's kid (which he still plays), this is the game I would be returning to these days. How I regret giving him my main and not my alt account since he just uses my old main to support the new toons he made later.
Crafting and PvP imo make the best end game content. Unlike wow though, they need more to it then just instanced grinding. Realm Vrs realm pvp seems to give it .. a point. At least you're fighting for something other then gear/faction points that are used for gear ect ect.
For the lvling game I like quests. For some odd reason I can't just go out and kill mobs untill I lvl, yet a quest to kill 10 of this and 5 of that seems more fun to me /shrug
After reading about DAoC I really wished I'd played that
ATITD? Heh...I really have no idea, as I've honestly rarely made it to the endgame in any MMO
Actually, ATITD (A Tale in the Desert) does fulfill all of those criteria, try it out.
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No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Thanks all for the replies! I'm sad. I'll probably have to revert to Elder Scrolls 4 when it appears.
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
This game does EXIST! It Dark Age of Camelot on classic server. I think still the best equipment you can get is one group (8 poeple) instance what just a bit better then crafter armor.
You must get Catacombs though. I think it 30$ in shop. (check to see if they have a CATACOMB trial and just head strieght there to level.)
Though there really no reward for exploring in DAoC but when I was in a BG(low level range RvR zone) I explored and found some Name mobs that drop good PvP loot most/everyone didnt had these good items.
There reward for exploring! Now I want to play DAoC =(
--
"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
Thanks Devalon! I'll take a look.
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
If I made an mmo right now I would first concentrate on PvP since it is growing in demand:
Maybe a huge Colisseum like the Parthenon, that in the center ring is Open PvP unless there is a special event. Also in the spectator seats you can see the entire center ring and hear anything said inside; since thats how the Parthenon worked.
Underneath are a series of rooms where you can enter private matches, and fight caged animals. You can also leave the game in a training room where your character still remains in-game punching one of the dummies to level at a minimal rate.
After I get that down I would expand; maybe something with these features:
-Open PvP with restricted areas, like Inn's/training area/newbiegrounds; also there will be a bounty system if Open PvP is implemented.
-Multi-leveling system where you can gain levels through other aspects of the game aside from killing or hacking stuff. Maybe researching in a Library, or playing an instrument in a tavern, or how much money you earn for classes that arent a fighter.
-Castle Sieging; holding a castle has benefits..
-Nation building; similiar to what Dark and Light was trying but didnt implement.
-Skill based system with thousands of skills; the skills will require alot of branching that define what a class is (Some rare skills you will have to do hardships); Also as you learn new skills, other skills close off.
-I want to add more but as of right now only really elite systems can play this game so I will leave it here.
What's the conventional wisdom around here on WoW vs EQ2? I know about WoW. I tried EQ2 Trial of the Isle but I did not get far and was not impressed at the beginning of the game. Base on my first post in this thread would EQ2 be worth a second look?
Thanks!
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
Every MMORPG I've played has had good points that it could add to the perfect MMORPG, but frankly I don't think we'll really ever see a "Perfect" MMORPG. There's just no way to please everyone. WoW really raised the bar when it first came ou tand now it get's trashed. Part of that is Post Launch Dev screw ups and stupidity and part of it is the stupidity of the WoW playerbase. Remember at heart MMORPG's are online community's. Community is the glue that holds the game together. If you have a bunch of jerks in the community it really lowers the value of the game.
As for me, I'm waiting for Holodecks in our garages and USB ports in the backs of our skulls. Now that will be some hardcore gaming.
QFT
I think the problem is that many people love the 'leveling' phenomenon and when you get to your cap you think, 'Well, now what do I do?'
I suggest play everquest2 and focus on completing as many quests as possible. If doing quests is your focus rather than leveling - you can play eq2 (and its over 2000 quests) forever.
Actually for most of what you listed AO had it long before WoW
But of course AO is getting a bit dated now also.
There have been several articles written about MMORPGs and a book (which I have not read) called Designing Virtual Worlds. My understanding is that part of the problem with MMORPGs is that because your allowing everyone to enjoy the same questing experiences, your stuck with a stagnant world that never changes requiring the developer to keep producing new areas for exploration which is impossible to do at a rate that keeps up with the players. For example, with WoW, I capped out in 4 months and had explored not all, but most of the known WoW world.
In addition, for WoW I was hooked on leveling, which is also related to new content. Once I hit the level cap I was no longer really interested in repeating the same dungeons over and over to try to get a complete set of epic armor or weapons. While leveling I played probably 70% solo and 30% party. Even though it took 12 months of game play, I'm seeing now that kill and gather quests are just the same old routine in a new setting. Even in the raid dungeons, there is a formula to beat them. And although it's a challenge to get 40 people working together to beat the boss, I found 40 player raids not all that much fun.
I really have no answers, just observations.
-Hunt'n
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
DAOC has all that... and more.
So does EQ2
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I agree that 40 plus man raids against NPC mobs isn't really all that fun. The primary reason people do it in WoW isn't because they are great fun, its because they are all hoping for the purple drop at the end. It has nothing to do with any actual "content" or "story". And yes there is a formula to "beat" them. In WoW you have people doing the same instance 40 and 50 times before they get it. That isn't grind? My eyes would bleed having to do the same instance that many times. Then to just move onto the next one? No thanks baby! You can keep your pretty looking hidden grind fest! (hehe and I play Lineage 2
)
Now 40 people + in a large PvP fight (like in DAoC) is completely different. Tactics and stratagy are always different, opponites are different, everything is different each time.
One of the best worlds out there with very strong PvP is DAoC. That sounds like what you are looking for. Good content (not great) Strong PvP and all around good play. Many of the newer games are just to damn limited in scope.
Personally the only 2 games that best meet your criteria is the Original Everquest and WoW.. EQ2 just put PVP in recently but I cancelled my account a year ago.So I haven't tried it out yet..
I think Vanguard will be the answer to all of our questions,rants,and complaints compared to every other mmo..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Looks like for Vanguard they are saying 2nd Quarter 2006. I'm lazy...what makes it different from all the rest?
-Hun'tn
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
I admit that WoW, short term is a spectacular starting point for a MMORPG, I now realize that a starting point is all it is. Long term, it needs to be much more.
I just read about the new MMORPG called Seed by Runestone which is starting public beta testing in the near future.
Despite this game not having any combat, I find it very intriguing because instead of relying on set quests that everyone gets, it relies on quest templates allowing the game and setting to evolve. Individuals are not going to see every quest in the game. I found this MMORPG.com interview to be very interesting because as someone who crashed and burned on a static world mmorpg, this seems partily to be the answer for the future for this genre.
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
Asheron's CALL
LPvP & a great variaty of quest, leveling location and the option to create a completly cuztomisable warrior to became part of a server which allows u to level up in a world full of other players whome have the ability to be attacked or attack you at any time, thus resulting in perhaps vitae; loss of items and ressurection. This iAsheron's call 1, came out like 10 years ago, AC2, several years later. Ac had a SKill / Attribute system which gave you 300 juice points to pump how every so u wish into 6 bars of 1 hundred, ( u chose which ones u want to increase depending on what u wish to be , the 6 Attributes are - Strength ( increased general damage / ability to carry a lot of items without becoming hindered by weight ) /// Coordination - increased chances of successfull hit (helps icnrease Bow skill and Any other melee skill ///Quickness, helps inprove speed of all characters actions, including spell casting also helps raise Running speed // Endurance ( deteermins health u start with and stamina u start with, higher endurance longer u wil last in sword fight without becming exhausted - can raise Health and stamina naturally /// 2.) or u can full the bars wich are more importanta for a mage or magiucal player , Focus and Self, increasing foucs would alow u to have higher magic skills in general meaning u have a higher cast rate and a perhaps a high enough magic skill to enter the next power tier in magic.( out of 7 - 7 whhich would be obtained by getting to a very high level), this would also increase base mana, if u raise self u will also increase mana and again have a even higher base magic skill. SO an exmaple of a template in attributes would be - 100 self, 100 focus, 30 quickness, 30 endurance, 40 strength =300 points, this charctyer would be a very powerful caster but slow, not very strong and not particularly tough
a Warrior on the otehr hand could get 100 coord 100 strength and 100 enduance = this would result in a very strong and fast melee character with a very unsatisfying magic base, perhaps being unable to use magic whatso ever - these attribute configurations would hopefully relate to ure skills. once u determine ure attributes u match up skills that have those atrrbiures as a requisite, meaning a new character would have a higher base 'weapon' skill if they have fully pumped the attributes required for that weapon, i.e. Sword = Strngth -Coord / 4
( +50
War Magic Focus -Self 4
ALL TEH ABOVE leads to veeeerryy Unique characters making EVERY CHARACTER different, this is what made AC what it was , teh diversity of every character meants a number of character types could be enjoyed, this style was thrown out teh window for AC2, and i have OBLVIOUS to why it happened, but its ovibous that it has been its downfall as AC2 closed down because of its low poularity, and i think its low poularity was due to rteh fact taht they did not impliment the skill/. atttrbute system taht they had in AC1 in it, that system defined AC and ac2 didnt have it, so effectivly i didnt consider aac2 TO BE 'aSHEWRONS ' cALL' I JSUT OCONSIDERERD it as YET anotehr skil tree based levegvling up game. This game had a server were u could KILL ANYBODY U WISHED AT MERCY - if you were more powerful then them - gaining theri most vaulble two items as a reward, this Mercyless power over otehrs in teh most gratifying thing in a MMORPG and many of terhm take it away or apply rules that protect other people, This would . I guwsa ure bored of reading now, all im saying is ANY MMORPG WIT HA DIVERSE SKILL SYSTEM - PERHAPS THE ONE FROM ASHEROSN CALL 2 with just 1 PVP SERVER WHICH PEOPLE CAN CRAETE LEvel, Slay or Help any otehr player they choose , a large community was created in Asherons call, Fear of ALlegiance s created by otehr players would drive certain player factions out of towns and raids would be played of such excitment, i an honestly say AC is the best game ive every palyed and perhaps the best days of my entire lifge.........SOM1 ANSWER MY PRAYERS<
IF !!!YOU!! ARE BIG IN GAME DEVELOPING CHECK POUT AC1's SKILL SYETEM AND IOMPLIMENT IT INTO A NEWE GAMER< U HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD IT IS, U WIL, if AC relaunched a fresh PVP SERVER NOW IDE STILL PALY IT EVEN THOUGH ITS 10 YEEARS OLD. ....until this day i will pary...every day
/
Don't Fear Me!...
!!!FEAR THE CONSEQUENCES!!!
My view of the ideal MMORPG is drastically changing. For long term gameplay, I no longer think WoW is a good starting point for an ideal MMORPG.
If you look at World of Warcraft, you see a landscape, which all though is a beautiful landscape, is a incredibly shallow environment populated with moving targets (A.I. characters and creatures). Take a beautiful setting such as Teldrassil, Elywnn Forest, or Stranglethorn Veil and it's a shame that the majority of a players activity is spent running around slaying constantly regenerating targets. Once enough targets are defeated under the guise of doing a quest, you move onto the next zone and harvest the next batch of targets. Allthough WoW nibbled at some character depth with it's professions, your WoW toon was basically a character without a home and the single minded tasks of killing and harvesting. Advancing professions also centers on the same type of activity- kill and collect. The WoW end game instances take the concept of leveling instances and add difficulty by requiring more players and coordination to defeat dungeon bosses. Based on WoW's premise of PVE combat, the high end instances are a natural progression. And I now see that if a player moves from leveling quests, to leveling instances, to end game instances, due to the shallowness of the gameplay, simply adding new lands and sending players out to once again do simple kill and collect quests will cause long term boredom issues, imo.
I don't claim to be a MMO expert, but these are the MMO formulas I'm aware of:
* PVE Target Practise- such as WoW
* PVP Emphasis- Guild Wars, WoW, Shadowbane
* Environmental/Technology/Social Challenges- Tale in the Desert, Seed, others?
* Other Type MMOs?
Wouldn't it be interesting if you could create a home where you character could live and develop along with quests and an evolving environment? I think this must be the future of MMO's. I would relish the opportunity to pick one of WoW's desirable regions, and actually create a home and develop a character with gameplay depth on multiple fronts.
Currently, I know of 2 interesting MMORPGs Tale in the Desert (Mac Version!) and Seed (No Mac version announced). Both of these games lack the target practise style game play but focus on shaping and changing the environment. I'm not saying that the lack of conflict make these games more interesting.
All though I don't know how successful TITD is or how fun it would be to actually play, if you read the game manual, it has a huge amount of depth on multiple fronts, concerning lawmaking, religion, leadership, lawmaking, and technology. Yes combat would be nice but currently the closest thing to combat is non-lethal dueling. Are they any TITD players in the forum?
Seed is a soon to be released MMO science fiction story of a colony on a alien planet trying to survive. It involves a skill system that give the character the ability to help the colony survive and have an effect on the evolving environment.
I know I am attracted to combat, so I think a huge challenge would be to create a MMORPG with a blend of conflict and development, to let warrior types to duke it out with the environment, unwelcome invasions, and monsters while allowing settlements to make technology advances along with the elements presented in TITD.
I predict that despite WoW's huge success, as its subscribers cap out, a large percentage will tire of the shallow, singleminded style of game play and will look for MMOs with more depth and balanced challenges.
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
The ONLY mmorpg that comes closest to your requests is... Anarchy Online. Most of the high end, end game content is soloable - but takes very long and/or requires the solo player to use their brains. (For example looking around the land and recignizing that you can CLIMB up the tall steppes, plataues, mesas, and snip ultra-high level boss henchmen, and bosses. As well as other things.)
AO has tons of revolutionary features, including allowing casual players to get something done, even high end casual players. In PvP, much lower level players have a legit chance to slay much higher level players. And much, much, more. As far as I know, right now AO has extended their FREEE trial to ONE YEAR. Download it, immediatly right now for free, and play for free from now until Jan 2007!