Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why I WILL pay, and be happy to.
Umbrood
Member UncommonPosts: 1,809
Considering posts in this place as well a ddo.com and codemasters forums there is one overwhelming reason I think it is worth its monthly fee.
Most of the people that whine over the cost, compare it to GW and scream bloody murder at the XP system are people that by the look of it I would NEVER want in a game that I played, regardless of what that game might be.
Just screaming "I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG", and settle for nothing less then complete agreement is a sure sign of, if not immaturity, a pretty vague view on the world, extreme short sightednes and by all means a total lack of ability to cooperate with others, on anything.
It is all for the better, their journeys in Ebberon would have been short and lonely in any case, as these are not personal traits that will help you in any way, not here and probably not in any other MMO.
Just my opinion of course, but I still say this is a good thing, these are not people that had any intentions of buying and playing in any case if you ask me, they just scream because places like this and the interweb allows it.
As for constructive criticism VS 
posts the ratio is something like 1 to 10.
No, this game aint perfect by any means and I would like to see it have as many people as possible for me to play with, but enough is enough.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments
exactly. its a true fanboi that gets defensive about the criticism but cant honestly defend the game itself.
hey OP...how bout some "constructive defense"? heh
While I found it impossible to miss the point, obviously it was, sorry.
Point was, everything aside, my main reason for paying for this game is that by its very system it will disencourage people I would rather not share a world with, if given a choice, to not play.
As to the game itself, even with its flaws I find it the most refreshing and original approach to the MMO genre in a long time, add the DD setting and at least in my book you have a winner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm totally with you, Umbrood. Let them preach doom all they want. I'm just glad they won't be in the game with me.
I agree with the OP about DDO and I will add why I will buy it and play.
To me, the biggest draw to a mmo is the community. The players that make up the game really have a huge influence on the fun. Of course, game mechanics and technical things are important and need to be working and fun, but if the community isn't fitting for you, the fun won't last. In my particular case, it was exactly like this with World of Warcraft. Great game, excellent mechanics, polished, etc. But the community there is not for me . . .
So why is Dungeons and Dragons Online going to be good for me? Because number one, I love D&D and how Turbine has done a good job of incorporating things from the pen and paper game into the mmorpg. Not everything will make it in, and some things must be changed a bit to make the computer game work and be fun, but in my time playing the 2 stress tests, I really felt as if it was a D&D experience.
Another main reason why D&D is for me, is the change from the normal design of mmos. Guild Wars started this with number one (and a big arguing point for players that don't want a monthly fee for DDO), is that it was FREE. Guild Wars also got us away from the typical level grinding, although there is still a type of grind there. DDO will focus on instanced quests, where you will form small groups and advance your character by completing these quests. Experience may still be earned from encounters within the instances, but the days of farming mindless mobs, who are just waiting out there to be slaughtered, is over.
These reasons alone are enough for me to play DDO, and after trying out the game, it was fun, and the players were mature and good to be around. I can't say that for many mmorpgs out there right now.
This pretty much mirrors the reasons why I will be picking it up as well as a bunch of my friends.
I fully believe that a community will make or break an MMO. That said, there is no difference in community between this game and Guild Wars. Let me explain.
The game design has been created so that the community is highly fractured. The only meeting spaces will be taverns from my experience and each tavern district has a limited number of people. Outside of groups, these 30-50 players (not sure how many fit per instance) will be the game world for your character most of the time. The other easy way of meeting people in-game is through the LFG system, which will match you up with 1-5 other people.
If you enter this game with a guild or with friends, the rest of the community won't mean much beyond the occassional PuG and everyone else may as well be invisible. If you're new, then your community will start as PuGs and evolve to players that you meet and trust online. Similar to Guild Wars, the overall intelligence and maturity of the players doesn't matter. You only have to play with those you want to and the rest are completely isolated from you. It's just as simple to find a group of great people and ignore the annoying ones in GW through this system. In both games, the community is as small or as large and as ideal as you want it to be. And everyone will have their own community. The roleplayers will make friends will other roleplayers and will therefore remove the need for an RP server. The powerlevellers will find other powerlevellers and do the same. Every group and every playstyle will find those people they're comfortable with and play with them. A monthly fee and multiple servers will do nothing to change that except limit the total number of people looking for like-minded friends and guilds at a given time.
You'd be foolish and/or naive to believe that kind, intelligent people don't play GW or that immature trolls won't play DDO. The only differences when it comes to community in these two games, as far as I'm concerned, is the ratio of mature to immature (you'll probably have more misses in a free, serverless game like GW than a subscription based, smaller-sized game like DDO), the total number of players and the monthly fee you need to pay to create such a community.
And in regards to forums - it's been my experience that the vocal minority will always whine for one thing or another to suit their playstyle (for example, RP servers, no spellpoints, raid content, etc.) while the majority will continue playing the game blissfully unaware of the commotion that rages on a site they never visit. Most people want to spend their monthly fee playing the game, not spending hours arguing over a miniscule aspect of the overall design.
I don't have high hopes for the game but, I'm still going to buy it and play it untill I decide if it's good or bad. Even if I only play it a month, that's longer then I play most single player games so it's worth it to me to find out.
I thought SWG was going to suck, but I stayed there for a year and had a blast. I wouldn't be cought dead there now but the fist year it was a good game imo.
For the people who wont buy it /shrug I don't know why you all spend so much time bashing DDO when there's so many new MMORPGs coming out you could be looking at
Who knows maybe you'll like one of them.
I strongly have to disagree with you here. Your saying a game like D&D with close to 30 years of history is not going to have a better community then a game that was made for people that can't afford a monthly subscription fee? D&D should have a great community and that will eventually be one of its main selling points. Alot of the target demographic they are going for seems to be exactly what SOE pushed away from SWG. Never underestimate the older RPG crowd that can afford 5 accts and keeps their sub active even when they aren't playing the game. These types of players are really the backbone of a solid MMORPG community.
I strongly have to disagree with you here. Your saying a game like D&D with close to 30 years of history is not going to have a better community then a game that was made for people that can't afford a monthly subscription fee? D&D should have a great community and that will eventually be one of its main selling points. Alot of the target demographic they are going for seems to be exactly what SOE pushed away from SWG. Never underestimate the older RPG crowd that can afford 5 accts and keeps their sub active even when they aren't playing the game. These types of players are really the backbone of a solid MMORPG community.
Very well said.
Even more, GW is PvP and DDO PvE, that is two huge differences and breeds totally different communities.
The whole GW - DDO comparison is just stupid, pretty much the ONLY thing they have in common is the instancing.
You can compare pretty much any other two games out there and they will be more similar to each other then GW and DDO will ever be.
I wonder though if some people will ever understand that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've played City of Heroes for about 3 months until I couldn't stand the grind anymore. CoH is a huge grind. Mission after mission after mission . . . repeat, repeat, repeat. Recently I tried City of Villains. Both mmos are fun, but I could not play either for more than a few months. The game is fun to play, but I lost interest because of repeating the sames quests, and there was not enough roleplaying on the servers I was on. I'm not saying there was none, I found a quite a few great roleplayers that made the game more interesting, but generally, it was lacking.
DDO had quests that were varied, diffterent, and has a combat system that makes grouping seem so much more important and fun. Postition, movement and strategy matters in batte. There are many other things I didn't mention about DDO that I liked about it that is much different than CoH and other mmos. I like character progression better in DDO, although CoH and CoV have a much better character creator and offer much more customization, which I really like.
Guild Wars may be the most similar to DDO in basic game design (instance-based, focus on EXP for completing missions), but again, it is different mainly in that is focuses on PvP. That alone draws a different crowd of players, making the community different.
Getting back to CoH again, I have never been a big comic book/superhero fan. So this is another reason why CoH/CoV may not have held my interest. Even with a great working, fun game, the gameworld, lore, storylines, and other players in the game make a big impact on my enjoyment.
You can't forget the fact that it's Dungeons and Dragons. I am old and have played D&D when I was a kid. I loved it. Now I get to experience something like that again without having to track down my friends and coordinate a game night at my kitchen table. It has been a long time coming for D&D to come to the MMO space as it will in Feb.
And I strongly disagree with you. Look at WoW. That's a pay service and the community is horrible.
Now look at the elements DDO has:
1. Erberron - Definately a world for the younger players. The pure amount of magic and Warforged just screams this.
2. Twichy combat. Most of the older more mature people, want a more mature combat system. DDO does not have a mature combat system.
3. No crafting. Most of the older mature crowd like to craft.
4. Nothing to do but combat. Most of the mature crowd like to have houses to decoorate and Role-Play in, or something to do other than fight to enhance their experience.
No Turbine has marketed this game to the WoW crowd and I believe that's what it will attract.
I would bet in 3 months you're going to say the same thing about DDO. Like you said, the game is fun for 3 months, well you're still in that 3 month window. You're still excited about the prospect of the new game.
And yes I CAN forget it's Dungeons and Dragons. This game doesn't FEEL like D&D, no matter what label they put on the box. Get a marker and put a D&D label on EQ2 or WoW and it will be closer to D&D than this game. I'm old too, and been playing D&D for years and years. I have fond memories of my epic adventrues, this game does nothing to bring back those memories.
And I strongly disagree with you. Look at WoW. That's a pay service and the community is horrible.
Now look at the elements DDO has:
1. Erberron - Definately a world for the younger players. The pure amount of magic and Warforged just screams this.
2. Twichy combat. Most of the older more mature people, want a more mature combat system. DDO does not have a mature combat system.
3. No crafting. Most of the older mature crowd like to craft.
4. Nothing to do but combat. Most of the mature crowd like to have houses to decoorate and Role-Play in, or something to do other than fight to enhance their experience.
No Turbine has marketed this game to the WoW crowd and I believe that's what it will attract.
Once again, if you talking about a game community which was my counterpoint to Grim's post, DDO will have a much better community then WoW. WoW should have much higher subscription numbers then DDO after 1 year but WoW probably has one of the worst MMORPG communities and this is exactly what Turbine seems to have targeted. DDO is designed to simulate PnP D&D online with more engaging combat then what is in traditional MMORPGS. Turbine has been very vocal saying this game will not appeal to alot of people, which really means younger WoW players. Part of DDO's appeal will be that it is almost the anti-WoW game. I would expect DDO to take a small chunk of the WoW RPG crowd that is fed up with that community. I would even bet there marketing will start to really target those types of players a few months after the initial hype of the launch wears down.
I think you may have missed the rest of my post. I agreed that the ratio of Mature to Immature players will be better in DDO, but that in the end, both games will have a community of whatever you want. With 100% instancing, there are no fears of griefers, gankers, mob trains or even ninja looters as there are with WoW, EQ and others. In both games, you play ONLY with who you want to play with. And that is the game community. Everyone else is really just a naked elf dancing on a tavern table as far as you need be concerned.
I played GW for 2 months and invested 200+ hours into it's PvE (maybe 2-3 hours were PvP, but I mostly enjoyed the PvE aspect) and as far I as cared, the only people that mattered were those I grouped with. Sometimes I played with an absolute jerk and I never had to play with him again, thereby removing him from the community. Sometimes I found a group so incredible that I put them all on my friends list and helped each other out for the rest of the game. The exact same thing is with DDO.
That's why I'm saying the two games communities are similar.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Maybe DDO will be boring, but I don't know that right now. All I know is that it is fun to play, it has interesting quests that are different from one another and offer different styles of play. They require certain classes and teamwork, not just manpower. Without getting into a battle which game is better, I think DDO has a lot more to offer me, because of the type of player I am and what I want from an MMO.
Everyone has different opinions. People have had different experiences with the PnP game, so when I say that DDO feels like a PnP game, well, to me it does. Maybe your PnP games were different.
EQ2 and WoW don't feel like Dungeons and Dragons because of many things, including (and get ready for a run-on sentence) the gameworld and setting (Norrath and Azeroth are different from the setting of Eberron. You may call them all fantasy worlds that have the typical character classes, that's about where I would stop the comarisons), the combat (combat in DDO is more strategic. If you didn't notice this while testing, then that is unfortunate, but the mechanics are there for different classes to use different tactics, which all lead to improved combat. The twitch-based combat many people like to take shots at is fun and a nice change for me, maybe its not the same for someone else. Again difference of opinion does not mean it is bad), the more intimate setting and emphasis on smaller groups instead of larger guilds and raid groups ( the party-based quest system is what D&D is all about. When I am with other players in a dungeon, cooperating to achieve a goal, listening to the Dungeon Master (text) describe things and seeing the various traps, effects, creatures, and unexpected twists, it makes for a very fun time), and character progression, which follows closely to the PnP game and lets you see nice improvements to your character, making you feel like you are becoming more powerful, etc., and I forget where I was, this is such a long sentence.
Anyway, I am not a fanbio, although I may sound like one. I just had enough time testing during the stress tests to get a feel for DDO, enough to know that I want to play it. I went into games like Guild Wars and City of Heroes with interest, but not like I do with DDO. Although the game feels and play differently than the typical mmorpg of today, that doesn't make it a bad game. I like the change of direction.
I would not agree there, D&D is by far the strongest RPG franchise, it clearly outmatch Blizzard. If DDO has less subscribtion than WoW, than Turbines will have to wonder what they did wrong.
D&D is about XP/mob. It is GBT. Feats work in a way that DDO is not respecting. There is no raiding trash enforcement. Solo is great in D&D while in DDO there is group enforcement. Eberron is not FR or DL and they leave a LOT of stuff out, making an incomplete Eberron (some races). D&D allow you to play with your friends, while DDO enforce you to play with folks on your server. D&D is about strategies and thinking while DDO is clearly action oriented with dodging fireball. I will try DDO, but I have very little expectations since they announce raiding, which was the unacceptable betrayal which lead to my open rebellion...raiders are not even able to go to the bathroom alone, they certainly doesn't deserve anything outside of the raiding system, certainly not the best loots (group-wise)! DDO is closer to EQ/WoW than to D&D. Since I am a fan of D&D prior been a MMO fan, I resent those choices badly.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I have stated why this doesn't feel like D&D many times, but I'll do it one more for you:
The Setting: IMO Robots, Trains, Telegraphs, and Cranes (yes that's right, there is a crane lifting crates off ships) do not belong in a D&D world.
Combat. The point and click fast paced combat with lack of options is really NOT D&D 3.5. I used to think that a turn based combat system wouldn't work in an MMO, I was very wrong. I've seen it done, and it is awesome
The location. Everything takes place with in the confines of a very small city. No exploration, very little to see.
Not epic. Imagine a Grand Wizard walking up to the little halfing, and saying "I have an epic quest for you! Should you choose to accept it, walk down the street about 3 blocks hang a left on main street, and go in the second door on the right. When you walk in, make sure you break every crate and barrel you see, I'll give you a little extra XP for that." Does that sound epic to you?
No crafting. In most of the D&D games I play in I usually play mages. I LOVE making scrolls, wands and things like that.
Turning the first 10 levels into 40. Drop the mini-games and finish the game. Go with the 20 levels that are in the book.
* The Setting: IMO Robots, Trains, Telegraphs, and Cranes (yes that's right, there is a crane lifting crates off ships) do not belong in a D&D world.
Well, you're not quite right there.
Renaissance/technomagical fantasy is a recurring trend from Iron Kingdoms to Eberron to Caedwallon, in fiction also. But yeah, you're off there.
Firstly there's Lantan (I think?) The Forgotten Realms place with the techno gnomes etc. Also Eberron is a D&D setting, an official one. At one time Planescape or DarkSun would have been considered heretical also
* Combat. The point and click fast paced combat with lack of options is really NOT D&D 3.5. I used to think that a turn based combat system wouldn't work in an MMO, I was very wrong. I've seen it done, and it is awesome
I'll give you that one, but turn based tends to cause problems in group situations with everyone waiting on the slow guy to do his thing.
* The location. Everything takes place with in the confines of a very small city. No exploration, very little to see.
This needn't be bad. Didn't huurt Perdido Street Starion, or Frtiz Lieber books did it?
not having exploration is a bit of a bummer but they've traded that for this narrow Party + Dungeons view. Its a bit disappointing for them to focus so tightly on something most people got past after the basic set.
* Not epic. Imagine a Grand Wizard walking up to the little halfing, and saying "I have an epic quest for you! Should you choose to accept it, walk down the street about 3 blocks hang a left on main street, and go in the second door on the right. When you walk in, make sure you break every crate and barrel you see, I'll give you a little extra XP for that." Does that sound epic to you?
I prefer to start small TBH and build up to the big. Instancing is bad enough with everyone having done the same big heroic things. This would just get worse if they went epic.
* No crafting. In most of the D&D games I play in I usually play mages. I LOVE making scrolls, wands and things like that.
DEfinately, especially with Eberron having the Artificer class.
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
Just to clarify, IMO means In My Opinion, so I can't really be wrong. I don't like Forgotten Realms either. I never said Eberron wasn't official, but WotC have a lot of offical things that are pure crap, I feel Eberron is one of them.
In my opinion Steam Punk needs to stay out of Fantasy.
I would not agree there, D&D is by far the strongest RPG franchise, it clearly outmatch Blizzard. If DDO has less subscribtion than WoW, than Turbines will have to wonder what they did wrong.
I agree D&D is the much stronger franchise, but WoW fits the MMORPG model better. WoW is also much more casual friendly and dumbed down then D&D. Plus Blizzard already had a built in fan base for this game and they have marketed and launched the game very well. If DDO even comes remotely close to what WoW had done then I will be amazed. A bad example might be, WoW is like Britney Spears and DDO will be more like Fiona Apple. Both sucessful artists but one has a little more substance then the other.
Whats so original and refreshing about dwarves, humans and elves? I could keep on but I am sure you get my point.